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Re: Yosemite and Tuolumne river plans

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  • gkahn21
    Exceeding water allowance? May Lake is next to a lake so would seem to have the most secure water source out of any of the camps. Seems odd to me. I would
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 1, 2013
      Exceeding water allowance? May Lake is next to a lake so would seem to have the most secure water source out of any of the camps. Seems odd to me. I would think it would be a problem with the waste water disposal. But whatever the reason, I'm all for it.

      Though nitpicking over where there are showers misses the point. The camps have a large impact comparative to their use. Even with the reduction of showers, all the water/waste water infrastructure at the high sierra camps will stay. Though the actual camps haven't expanded much since they were established, the water/waste water systems have increased greatly. Gourmet food is still packed in along with other supplies and trash is packed out. They'll probably have to pack in water to Sunrise this year, which seems really absurd. Then there is setup, maintenance, take down, etc. That's just operations, not getting into the impact the actual visitors have being concentrated in those specific areas.

      It is great that the camps let people that otherwise can't go backpacking experience some of the high sierra, but that shouldn't give the camps a free pass for their impacts. Again, I think it is a limited number of people unable to physically go and more of an excuse now for the camps.


      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...> wrote:
      >
      > Glen Aulin and Vogelsang don't. May Lake won't as of 2014 because of exceeding water allowance Sunrise does only in the early season of a wet year.
      >
      >
      >
      > On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:18 AM, gkahn21 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      >
      > > Just FYI, the High Sierra camps do provide showers:
      > > From http://www.yosemitepark.com/high-sierra-camp-lodging.aspx
      > > "Who wouldn't want a hot shower after a day on the trail? Hot showers are available at May Lake, Sunrise and Merced Lake" Not all of them, but the majority of them. I was mistaken about the linen, they must have changed their policy in recent years. Yes, meals are available for backpackers, but is very limited.
      > >
      > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Just FYI, the High Sierra camps don't provide showers, nor fresh linen, and several have pit toilets. But the meals are pretty good, and open to backpackers too.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:31 AM, gkahn21 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@> wrote:
      > > > > "They provide a means for people to be able to hike in the high country who would otherwise be unable to access these remoter parts of the park. I think it would be very sad if this happened, and the beauties of the high sierra restricted to only those healthy enough to be able to backpack out to see them."
      > > > >
      > > > > They do provide that opportunity, but how many of the guests at the high sierra camps are actually physically unable to backpack? It seems most either are unwillingly to backpack or prefer the luxuries of the high sierra camps. While providing the opportunity to see the high sierra, is it necessary to have flush toilets, showers, fresh linens, and fancy meals (with all the associated impacts)? It seems to me that you could still provide access to those incapable of backpacking without all the amenities and permanent installations.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Carolsteveyoung
      Environmental impact is also huge for those who pack in on horseback. I always keep in mind that these are people who have a bit more $$ and perhaps some
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 2, 2013
        Environmental impact is also huge for those who pack in on horseback. I always keep in mind that these are people who have a bit more $$ and perhaps some political influence in a different way. 

        We stayed two free nights at BearPaw camp (my wife was stepped on by one of their mule pack train) before they brought in a horse to ride her out in 2010. Food was glorious, made several friends among that crowd, and day hiked with a great guy who had come in with adult daughter who wasn't much into backpacking. He appreciated having a hike partner with enthusiasm and stamina. It was an eye opener for me to see who stays there. What seems pricy for me was well within their vacation budget. 

        In 1999 my 10-yr-old son was almost forced over a cliff drop by a stupid horse leader out of Reds Meadow who allowed a little girl (age7 maybe) to ride lead on his train down a narrow trail. I yelled at him (he was at least 8 back and couldn't even see her). Just a scare on that one. 

        Still these are people who bring a loud voice to wilderness issues and especially in CA the horse crowd seems to be well connected. 

        Steve Young
        Geneva IL



        On Aug 1, 2013, at 6:43 PM, gkahn21 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

         

        Exceeding water allowance? May Lake is next to a lake so would seem to have the most secure water source out of any of the camps. Seems odd to me. I would think it would be a problem with the waste water disposal. But whatever the reason, I'm all for it.

        Though nitpicking over where there are showers misses the point. The camps have a large impact comparative to their use. Even with the reduction of showers, all the water/waste water infrastructure at the high sierra camps will stay. Though the actual camps haven't expanded much since they were established, the water/waste water systems have increased greatly. Gourmet food is still packed in along with other supplies and trash is packed out. They'll probably have to pack in water to Sunrise this year, which seems really absurd. Then there is setup, maintenance, take down, etc. That's just operations, not getting into the impact the actual visitors have being concentrated in those specific areas.

        It is great that the camps let people that otherwise can't go backpacking experience some of the high sierra, but that shouldn't give the camps a free pass for their impacts. Again, I think it is a limited number of people unable to physically go and more of an excuse now for the camps.

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...> wrote:
        >
        > Glen Aulin and Vogelsang don't. May Lake won't as of 2014 because of exceeding water allowance Sunrise does only in the early season of a wet year.
        >
        >
        >
        > On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:18 AM, gkahn21 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        >
        > > Just FYI, the High Sierra camps do provide showers:
        > > From http://www.yosemitepark.com/high-sierra-camp-lodging.aspx
        > > "Who wouldn't want a hot shower after a day on the trail? Hot showers are available at May Lake, Sunrise and Merced Lake" Not all of them, but the majority of them. I was mistaken about the linen, they must have changed their policy in recent years. Yes, meals are available for backpackers, but is very limited.
        > >
        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Just FYI, the High Sierra camps don't provide showers, nor fresh linen, and several have pit toilets. But the meals are pretty good, and open to backpackers too.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:31 AM, gkahn21 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@> wrote:
        > > > > "They provide a means for people to be able to hike in the high country who would otherwise be unable to access these remoter parts of the park. I think it would be very sad if this happened, and the beauties of the high sierra restricted to only those healthy enough to be able to backpack out to see them."
        > > > >
        > > > > They do provide that opportunity, but how many of the guests at the high sierra camps are actually physically unable to backpack? It seems most either are unwillingly to backpack or prefer the luxuries of the high sierra camps. While providing the opportunity to see the high sierra, is it necessary to have flush toilets, showers, fresh linens, and fancy meals (with all the associated impacts)? It seems to me that you could still provide access to those incapable of backpacking without all the amenities and permanent installations.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        >

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