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Re: MTR To Whitney w/ a Bearikade Weekender

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  • longritchie
    A bear could probably retrieve something hung off of a bridge. This is why bear bagging evolved into the counter-balance method, so the bear can t easily reach
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 31, 2013
      A bear could probably retrieve something hung off of a bridge. This is why bear bagging evolved into the counter-balance method, so the bear can't easily reach the cord.

      I think a better solution is an ursack in addition to your canister. It's a better protection against possible bears and it provides ample space for extra food at first and for garbarge later. I don't know if it's legal in that part of the Sierra but I think it's the best solution if your alternatives are inadequate hanging, carrying two bear canisters or going hungry.



      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "pdawg893" <pdawg893@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ok, so I posted about a month ago for some input on my mileage from MTR to Whitney. I am hiking solo.
      >
      > Now that I have that squared away I have a few questions about my logic. Keep in mind my mission (my fitness is good and my pack is light) is to avoid going over Kearsage at all costs so the siren's of cheeseburgers and warm beds don't lure me away from the trail never to return.
      >
      > 1) I think I can cram 6-7 days of food into my Bearikade Weekender. Lets assume this logic works and based upon experience from others 6 is about right but I'm praying my food choices get me 7!
      >
      > 2) If I carry Day 1 and Day 2 food in a sack, camp at the Piute Creek Bridge, eat day 1's food as I hike and set up Day 1 camp, camp and hang the bag from the Brige at Piute Creek, wake up and eat my food for day from teh hanging bag then I have not busted into my bear can until Day 3. All my smellies will have to go in the hang bag for the night. Any problems with hanging a bag off the bridge? Will a ranger take my food?
      >
      > 3) This should give 8-9 days of food.
      >
      > 4) As I near Kearsage, I will know how I am doing and if I get held up by weather or fire (god forbid) I will have to bail there due to food shortage.
      >
      > 5) I don't want to waste money on a resupply package to Independence if I don't have to. If I do end up having to leave the trail, is there anything at all I can buy in Independence or is it limited to not possible?
      >
      > Thank you for your input in advance.
      >
    • cjoslyn99
      I think Piute Creek bridge is the first one you hit out of MTR, no? If so, my recollection is it s one of those iron jobs over raging waters. I believe you
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 31, 2013
        I think Piute Creek bridge is the first one you hit out of MTR, no?

        If so, my recollection is it's one of those iron jobs over raging
        waters. I believe you should be able to hang it from underneath (i.e.,
        lean over carefully and tie into the understructure) in such a way that
        a bear could not reach around and get the rope or reach up from the
        water.

        I hung my excess food / smellables off of one of the bridges farther
        down South Fork San Joaquin River that way on my first night out of MTR
        and had no issues.

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, longritchie wrote:
        >
        > A bear could probably retrieve something hung off of a bridge. This is
        why bear bagging evolved into the counter-balance method, so the bear
        can't easily reach the cord.
        >
        > I think a better solution is an ursack in addition to your canister.
        It's a better protection against possible bears and it provides ample
        space for extra food at first and for garbarge later. I don't know if
        it's legal in that part of the Sierra but I think it's the best solution
        if your alternatives are inadequate hanging, carrying two bear canisters
        or going hungry.
        >
        > >
        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "pdawg893" pdawg893@ wrote:
        > >
        > > > > 2) If I carry Day 1 and Day 2 food in a sack, camp at the Piute
        Creek Bridge, eat day 1's food as I hike and set up Day 1 camp, camp and
        hang the bag from the Brige at Piute Creek, wake up and eat my food for
        day from teh hanging bag then I have not busted into my bear can until
        Day 3. All my smellies will have to go in the hang bag for the night.
        Any problems with hanging a bag off the bridge? Will a ranger take my
        food?
        > >
        > >
      • kconrad92029
        I carried 6 days in a Bearikade Scout plus the days food in my pack with me. The weekender should give you the extra space you need, it s a couple more inches
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 31, 2013
          I carried 6 days in a Bearikade Scout plus the days food in my pack with me. The weekender should give you the extra space you need, it's a couple more inches right? It's always a little tight the first couple days but cram it baby!! Just make sure you don't store your tortillas (or pita bread if you take that kind of thing)on the very top or the bottom... the lid presses into them so they don't separate so well. They still work, just not as good. :-/

          Happy Trails!
          Kelly
        • longritchie
          If you can reach it odds are a bear can too. Bears are pretty good climbers, better than most hikers. And the photo John posted makes it look like a bear might
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 31, 2013
            If you can reach it odds are a bear can too. Bears are pretty good climbers, better than most hikers. And the photo John posted makes it look like a bear might be able reach it from below.

            One out of the box solution is to submerge your food deep into a lake. Out of sight, out of smell, out of bear's mind hopefully. Again, I don't know if this is legal but the bridge hang idea sounds questionable as well.

            A final option is to pack denser food. It might not be as appetizing as whatever food compromises you have already made in the interest of going light but it is possible to fit enough for your trip in a 650 cubic inch canister. For example, 650 cubic inches of white granulated sugar would provide you with enough food to go 10 days at 3500 Calories per day. Bon appétit!



            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "cjoslyn99" <cjoslyn99@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I think Piute Creek bridge is the first one you hit out of MTR, no?
            >
            > If so, my recollection is it's one of those iron jobs over raging
            > waters. I believe you should be able to hang it from underneath (i.e.,
            > lean over carefully and tie into the understructure) in such a way that
            > a bear could not reach around and get the rope or reach up from the
            > water.
            >
            > I hung my excess food / smellables off of one of the bridges farther
            > down South Fork San Joaquin River that way on my first night out of MTR
            > and had no issues.
            >
            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, longritchie wrote:
            > >
            > > A bear could probably retrieve something hung off of a bridge. This is
            > why bear bagging evolved into the counter-balance method, so the bear
            > can't easily reach the cord.
            > >
            > > I think a better solution is an ursack in addition to your canister.
            > It's a better protection against possible bears and it provides ample
            > space for extra food at first and for garbarge later. I don't know if
            > it's legal in that part of the Sierra but I think it's the best solution
            > if your alternatives are inadequate hanging, carrying two bear canisters
            > or going hungry.
            > >
            > > >
            > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "pdawg893" pdawg893@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > > 2) If I carry Day 1 and Day 2 food in a sack, camp at the Piute
            > Creek Bridge, eat day 1's food as I hike and set up Day 1 camp, camp and
            > hang the bag from the Brige at Piute Creek, wake up and eat my food for
            > day from teh hanging bag then I have not busted into my bear can until
            > Day 3. All my smellies will have to go in the hang bag for the night.
            > Any problems with hanging a bag off the bridge? Will a ranger take my
            > food?
            > > >
            > > >
            >
          • shawn peterson
            Thanks!!!!  This is how I was envisioning it too. ________________________________ From: cjoslyn99 To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 31, 2013
              Thanks!!!!  This is how I was envisioning it too.


              From: cjoslyn99 <cjoslyn99@...>
              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 3:08 PM
              Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: MTR To Whitney w/ a Bearikade Weekender

               

              I think Piute Creek bridge is the first one you hit out of MTR, no?

              If so, my recollection is it's one of those iron jobs over raging
              waters. I believe you should be able to hang it from underneath (i.e.,
              lean over carefully and tie into the understructure) in such a way that
              a bear could not reach around and get the rope or reach up from the
              water.

              I hung my excess food / smellables off of one of the bridges farther
              down South Fork San Joaquin River that way on my first night out of MTR
              and had no issues.

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, longritchie wrote:
              >
              > A bear could probably retrieve something hung off of a bridge. This is
              why bear bagging evolved into the counter-balance method, so the bear
              can't easily reach the cord.
              >
              > I think a better solution is an ursack in addition to your canister.
              It's a better protection against possible bears and it provides ample
              space for extra food at first and for garbarge later. I don't know if
              it's legal in that part of the Sierra but I think it's the best solution
              if your alternatives are inadequate hanging, carrying two bear canisters
              or going hungry.
              >
              > >
              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "pdawg893" pdawg893@ wrote:
              > >
              > > > > 2) If I carry Day 1 and Day 2 food in a sack, camp at the Piute
              Creek Bridge, eat day 1's food as I hike and set up Day 1 camp, camp and
              hang the bag from the Brige at Piute Creek, wake up and eat my food for
              day from teh hanging bag then I have not busted into my bear can until
              Day 3. All my smellies will have to go in the hang bag for the night.
              Any problems with hanging a bag off the bridge? Will a ranger take my
              food?
              > >
              > >



            • shawn peterson
              Kelly you just made my day.  That is super reassuring on the amount you crammed into the scout.  As long as weather doesn t get me I think I can get this
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 31, 2013
                Kelly you just made my day.  That is super reassuring on the amount you crammed into the scout.  As long as weather doesn't get me I think I can get this done.

                Thanks to everyone on this board for the input and help


                From: kconrad92029 <kellyc@...>
                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 3:47 PM
                Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: MTR To Whitney w/ a Bearikade Weekender

                 
                I carried 6 days in a Bearikade Scout plus the days food in my pack with me. The weekender should give you the extra space you need, it's a couple more inches right? It's always a little tight the first couple days but cram it baby!! Just make sure you don't store your tortillas (or pita bread if you take that kind of thing)on the very top or the bottom... the lid presses into them so they don't separate so well. They still work, just not as good. :-/

                Happy Trails!
                Kelly



              • Erica
                ... FYI on this - a friend just told me the other day a funny story (though not funny at all...) of her and her family watching a bear pull up their hang from
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 31, 2013
                  > > A bear could probably retrieve something hung off of a bridge. This is
                  > why bear bagging evolved into the counter-balance method, so the bear
                  > can't easily reach the cord.

                  FYI on this - a friend just told me the other day a funny story (though not funny at all...) of her and her family watching a bear pull up their hang from one of those bridges fist over fist! So be very careful they can't get to the rope in any way. Or just use another method.
                • john_friend
                  I just finished the JMT SOBO yesterday. There are a couple things about your hypothesis that I don t understand. 1) The Piute Bridge is only a couple miles
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 31, 2013
                    I just finished the JMT SOBO yesterday. There are a couple things about your hypothesis that I don't understand.

                    1) The Piute Bridge is only a couple miles from MTR. You typically arrive at MTR sometime midday or late day, process your resupply and head to the camping areas near the Piute Bridge for that night (I actually hiked late into the evening and went a few miles past the Paiute Bridge just to get a little further head start on the next day - but that was a big mistake for me because I ran into a driving rainstorm with no place to camp for a couple miles - ahh, but that's another story). Getting to the Paiute Bridge is not a whole day's worth of food, nor a whole day's worth of progress. It's a couple miles. Certainly, you don't need to pack that first evening's dinner in the bear container as you will eat it before sleeping, but you can't count that as a whole day's worth of food or a day's worth of progress. It's only a couple miles progress and one dinner only. So, I think you're already a day off in your thinking.

                    2) You are allowed to hang food for the couple days out of MTR (bear containers are not technically required). This is presumably because bears are not a big problem in those areas (which doesn't mean you don't still need to be careful - but I think is indicative of the risk). You don't have to hang off a bridge, but you would have to know how to properly hang. There are plenty of trees to facilitate hanging all the way up from MTR to about 11,000' on the way to Muir Pass). The map shows the forested areas pretty well.

                    3) How much food you can fit into the weekender really depends upon your food choices. It depends upon how many calories/day you are taking and how volume dense your food is (e.g. how much space those calories take). I took a Bearikade Expedition (900 cubic inches vs. 650 for the Weekender) and could just barely fit 9 days of food into that (not counting the first dinner) while carrying 3000 calories/day (1.5 lbs/day). I could not fit any of my other scentables (toothpaste, sunscreen, bug repellent, etc...). So, for more specific advice, I think you'd need to provide more info on the specific food choices. It really depends upon the volume of your food choices.

                    4) I decided to put a LOKSAK OPSak Odor-Proof bag in my MTR resupply kit and I used that for my scentables when they wouldn't fit into my bear container and in case any food wouldn't fit. I intended to hang The OPSak, but since all my food did fit in the container so the OPSak only had scentables in it (things that wouldn't have aborted my trip if I lost), I ended up not hanging it and didn't have a problem. I don't know if that's a good risk or not, but I never even had chipmunks or marmots interested in the OPSak when they were certainly interested in many other items around so I think it does its odor proof job.

                    My conclusion is that, unless you're carrying far fewer calories than I did, or somehow have much more volume dense food (I was even supplementing with olive oil to up my density), I don't see how you possibly get 9 days of food in a weekender. The folks I saw on the trail with weekenders all had at most 7 days of food in them (even counting the 1 dinner shortcut the first night after MTR). I personally talked to 4-5 groups of people carrying weekenders who were doing an additional resupply on the last segment.

                    --John

                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "pdawg893" <pdawg893@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ok, so I posted about a month ago for some input on my mileage from MTR to Whitney. I am hiking solo.
                    >
                    > Now that I have that squared away I have a few questions about my logic. Keep in mind my mission (my fitness is good and my pack is light) is to avoid going over Kearsage at all costs so the siren's of cheeseburgers and warm beds don't lure me away from the trail never to return.
                    >
                    > 1) I think I can cram 6-7 days of food into my Bearikade Weekender. Lets assume this logic works and based upon experience from others 6 is about right but I'm praying my food choices get me 7!
                    >
                    > 2) If I carry Day 1 and Day 2 food in a sack, camp at the Piute Creek Bridge, eat day 1's food as I hike and set up Day 1 camp, camp and hang the bag from the Brige at Piute Creek, wake up and eat my food for day from teh hanging bag then I have not busted into my bear can until Day 3. All my smellies will have to go in the hang bag for the night. Any problems with hanging a bag off the bridge? Will a ranger take my food?
                    >
                    > 3) This should give 8-9 days of food.
                    >
                    > 4) As I near Kearsage, I will know how I am doing and if I get held up by weather or fire (god forbid) I will have to bail there due to food shortage.
                    >
                    > 5) I don't want to waste money on a resupply package to Independence if I don't have to. If I do end up having to leave the trail, is there anything at all I can buy in Independence or is it limited to not possible?
                    >
                    > Thank you for your input in advance.
                    >
                  • pdawg893
                    Thanks for replying John. I understand your confusion with my post. Earlier in the month I explained I was hiking in from Florence and skipping MTR. Thus I
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 31, 2013
                      Thanks for replying John.  I understand your confusion with my post.  Earlier in the month I explained I was hiking in from Florence and skipping MTR.  Thus I have Additional mileage just to get to MTR on my first day. I shoulda put a quick note to recap the old email but I was lazy. My first night off trail is where I live partway through the year at 5800 feet.  My first camp for acclimatization is near Piute bridge and then my second night will be in evolution valley past McClure.  I plan to Cary this first two days on trail in a bag outside of my bear can and use a 

                      I know how to hang but It was recommended by several people to try the bridge because it would be easier and faster and when the water is raging and the rope was out of bear reach it was a good option.  

                      If I can fit 6-7 days of food in my weekender and carry my first two days then I'm golden.  I've always carried a bear vault so my questions were due to unfamiliarity with the true capacity of the weekender.

                      Someone suggested the ursack but I'm against buying a 65 dollar bag that isn't even meant or designed for hanging And weighs another half pound.  Most people don't understand the ursack is meant to be tied to trunks, branches etc.  one of the reasons why I think it will never be ok'd for use everywhere because a bear can baffles a lot of people and the ursack makes it even more confusing if you've never used one.

                      Anyway,  it sounds like my food plan should work out if the weather holds.  Thanks for the input 


                      Sent from my iPhone

                      On Jul 31, 2013, at 7:11 PM, "john_friend" <yahoo@...> wrote:

                       

                      I just finished the JMT SOBO yesterday. There are a couple things about your hypothesis that I don't understand.

                      1) The Piute Bridge is only a couple miles from MTR. You typically arrive at MTR sometime midday or late day, process your resupply and head to the camping areas near the Piute Bridge for that night (I actually hiked late into the evening and went a few miles past the Paiute Bridge just to get a little further head start on the next day - but that was a big mistake for me because I ran into a driving rainstorm with no place to camp for a couple miles - ahh, but that's another story). Getting to the Paiute Bridge is not a whole day's worth of food, nor a whole day's worth of progress. It's a couple miles. Certainly, you don't need to pack that first evening's dinner in the bear container as you will eat it before sleeping, but you can't count that as a whole day's worth of food or a day's worth of progress. It's only a couple miles progress and one dinner only. So, I think you're already a day off in your thinking.

                      2) You are allowed to hang food for the couple days out of MTR (bear containers are not technically required). This is presumably because bears are not a big problem in those areas (which doesn't mean you don't still need to be careful - but I think is indicative of the risk). You don't have to hang off a bridge, but you would have to know how to properly hang. There are plenty of trees to facilitate hanging all the way up from MTR to about 11,000' on the way to Muir Pass). The map shows the forested areas pretty well.

                      3) How much food you can fit into the weekender really depends upon your food choices. It depends upon how many calories/day you are taking and how volume dense your food is (e.g. how much space those calories take). I took a Bearikade Expedition (900 cubic inches vs. 650 for the Weekender) and could just barely fit 9 days of food into that (not counting the first dinner) while carrying 3000 calories/day (1.5 lbs/day). I could not fit any of my other scentables (toothpaste, sunscreen, bug repellent, etc...). So, for more specific advice, I think you'd need to provide more info on the specific food choices. It really depends upon the volume of your food choices.

                      4) I decided to put a LOKSAK OPSak Odor-Proof bag in my MTR resupply kit and I used that for my scentables when they wouldn't fit into my bear container and in case any food wouldn't fit. I intended to hang The OPSak, but since all my food did fit in the container so the OPSak only had scentables in it (things that wouldn't have aborted my trip if I lost), I ended up not hanging it and didn't have a problem. I don't know if that's a good risk or not, but I never even had chipmunks or marmots interested in the OPSak when they were certainly interested in many other items around so I think it does its odor proof job.

                      My conclusion is that, unless you're carrying far fewer calories than I did, or somehow have much more volume dense food (I was even supplementing with olive oil to up my density), I don't see how you possibly get 9 days of food in a weekender. The folks I saw on the trail with weekenders all had at most 7 days of food in them (even counting the 1 dinner shortcut the first night after MTR). I personally talked to 4-5 groups of people carrying weekenders who were doing an additional resupply on the last segment.

                      --John

                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "pdawg893" <pdawg893@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ok, so I posted about a month ago for some input on my mileage from MTR to Whitney. I am hiking solo.
                      >
                      > Now that I have that squared away I have a few questions about my logic. Keep in mind my mission (my fitness is good and my pack is light) is to avoid going over Kearsage at all costs so the siren's of cheeseburgers and warm beds don't lure me away from the trail never to return.
                      >
                      > 1) I think I can cram 6-7 days of food into my Bearikade Weekender. Lets assume this logic works and based upon experience from others 6 is about right but I'm praying my food choices get me 7!
                      >
                      > 2) If I carry Day 1 and Day 2 food in a sack, camp at the Piute Creek Bridge, eat day 1's food as I hike and set up Day 1 camp, camp and hang the bag from the Brige at Piute Creek, wake up and eat my food for day from teh hanging bag then I have not busted into my bear can until Day 3. All my smellies will have to go in the hang bag for the night. Any problems with hanging a bag off the bridge? Will a ranger take my food?
                      >
                      > 3) This should give 8-9 days of food.
                      >
                      > 4) As I near Kearsage, I will know how I am doing and if I get held up by weather or fire (god forbid) I will have to bail there due to food shortage.
                      >
                      > 5) I don't want to waste money on a resupply package to Independence if I don't have to. If I do end up having to leave the trail, is there anything at all I can buy in Independence or is it limited to not possible?
                      >
                      > Thank you for your input in advance.
                      >

                    • john_friend
                      OK, others on the trail were doing 7 days of food in a Weekender (with a lot of squishing/squeezing) so I buy that logic if your food type/calorie count
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 31, 2013
                        OK, others on the trail were doing 7 days of food in a Weekender (with a lot of squishing/squeezing) so I buy that logic if your food type/calorie count allows.

                        I'm not sure what you mean by "if the weather holds". I had seven consecutive days of some rain on my trip including several torrential downpours, a couple hailstorms, several afternoons where it would have been foolish to be crossing a pass, etc.... This was perhaps a little out of pattern (two weather systems from the gulf I was told feeding the behavior), but it's what I had to deal with even though it is not currently doing that. The weather forced my plans to be altered many times. As long as you know what your safe alternative is if the weather forces you to change plans (e.g. an extra resupply) and you aren't too eager to attempt risky behavior to try to stay on schedule, you could be OK.

                        How many calories are you planning per day?

                        --John

                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, pdawg893@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Thanks for replying John. I understand your confusion with my post. Earlier in the month I explained I was hiking in from Florence and skipping MTR. Thus I have Additional mileage just to get to MTR on my first day. I shoulda put a quick note to recap the old email but I was lazy. My first night off trail is where I live partway through the year at 5800 feet. My first camp for acclimatization is near Piute bridge and then my second night will be in evolution valley past McClure. I plan to Cary this first two days on trail in a bag outside of my bear can and use a
                        >
                        > I know how to hang but It was recommended by several people to try the bridge because it would be easier and faster and when the water is raging and the rope was out of bear reach it was a good option.
                        >
                        > If I can fit 6-7 days of food in my weekender and carry my first two days then I'm golden. I've always carried a bear vault so my questions were due to unfamiliarity with the true capacity of the weekender.
                        >
                        > Someone suggested the ursack but I'm against buying a 65 dollar bag that isn't even meant or designed for hanging And weighs another half pound. Most people don't understand the ursack is meant to be tied to trunks, branches etc. one of the reasons why I think it will never be ok'd for use everywhere because a bear can baffles a lot of people and the ursack makes it even more confusing if you've never used one.
                        >
                        > Anyway, it sounds like my food plan should work out if the weather holds. Thanks for the input
                        >
                        >
                        > Sent from my iPhone
                        >
                        > On Jul 31, 2013, at 7:11 PM, "john_friend" <yahoo@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > I just finished the JMT SOBO yesterday. There are a couple things about your hypothesis that I don't understand.
                        > >
                        > > 1) The Piute Bridge is only a couple miles from MTR. You typically arrive at MTR sometime midday or late day, process your resupply and head to the camping areas near the Piute Bridge for that night (I actually hiked late into the evening and went a few miles past the Paiute Bridge just to get a little further head start on the next day - but that was a big mistake for me because I ran into a driving rainstorm with no place to camp for a couple miles - ahh, but that's another story). Getting to the Paiute Bridge is not a whole day's worth of food, nor a whole day's worth of progress. It's a couple miles. Certainly, you don't need to pack that first evening's dinner in the bear container as you will eat it before sleeping, but you can't count that as a whole day's worth of food or a day's worth of progress. It's only a couple miles progress and one dinner only. So, I think you're already a day off in your thinking.
                        > >
                        > > 2) You are allowed to hang food for the couple days out of MTR (bear containers are not technically required). This is presumably because bears are not a big problem in those areas (which doesn't mean you don't still need to be careful - but I think is indicative of the risk). You don't have to hang off a bridge, but you would have to know how to properly hang. There are plenty of trees to facilitate hanging all the way up from MTR to about 11,000' on the way to Muir Pass). The map shows the forested areas pretty well.
                        > >
                        > > 3) How much food you can fit into the weekender really depends upon your food choices. It depends upon how many calories/day you are taking and how volume dense your food is (e.g. how much space those calories take). I took a Bearikade Expedition (900 cubic inches vs. 650 for the Weekender) and could just barely fit 9 days of food into that (not counting the first dinner) while carrying 3000 calories/day (1.5 lbs/day). I could not fit any of my other scentables (toothpaste, sunscreen, bug repellent, etc...). So, for more specific advice, I think you'd need to provide more info on the specific food choices. It really depends upon the volume of your food choices.
                        > >
                        > > 4) I decided to put a LOKSAK OPSak Odor-Proof bag in my MTR resupply kit and I used that for my scentables when they wouldn't fit into my bear container and in case any food wouldn't fit. I intended to hang The OPSak, but since all my food did fit in the container so the OPSak only had scentables in it (things that wouldn't have aborted my trip if I lost), I ended up not hanging it and didn't have a problem. I don't know if that's a good risk or not, but I never even had chipmunks or marmots interested in the OPSak when they were certainly interested in many other items around so I think it does its odor proof job.
                        > >
                        > > My conclusion is that, unless you're carrying far fewer calories than I did, or somehow have much more volume dense food (I was even supplementing with olive oil to up my density), I don't see how you possibly get 9 days of food in a weekender. The folks I saw on the trail with weekenders all had at most 7 days of food in them (even counting the 1 dinner shortcut the first night after MTR). I personally talked to 4-5 groups of people carrying weekenders who were doing an additional resupply on the last segment.
                        > >
                        > > --John
                        > >
                        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "pdawg893" <pdawg893@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Ok, so I posted about a month ago for some input on my mileage from MTR to Whitney. I am hiking solo.
                        > > >
                        > > > Now that I have that squared away I have a few questions about my logic. Keep in mind my mission (my fitness is good and my pack is light) is to avoid going over Kearsage at all costs so the siren's of cheeseburgers and warm beds don't lure me away from the trail never to return.
                        > > >
                        > > > 1) I think I can cram 6-7 days of food into my Bearikade Weekender. Lets assume this logic works and based upon experience from others 6 is about right but I'm praying my food choices get me 7!
                        > > >
                        > > > 2) If I carry Day 1 and Day 2 food in a sack, camp at the Piute Creek Bridge, eat day 1's food as I hike and set up Day 1 camp, camp and hang the bag from the Brige at Piute Creek, wake up and eat my food for day from teh hanging bag then I have not busted into my bear can until Day 3. All my smellies will have to go in the hang bag for the night. Any problems with hanging a bag off the bridge? Will a ranger take my food?
                        > > >
                        > > > 3) This should give 8-9 days of food.
                        > > >
                        > > > 4) As I near Kearsage, I will know how I am doing and if I get held up by weather or fire (god forbid) I will have to bail there due to food shortage.
                        > > >
                        > > > 5) I don't want to waste money on a resupply package to Independence if I don't have to. If I do end up having to leave the trail, is there anything at all I can buy in Independence or is it limited to not possible?
                        > > >
                        > > > Thank you for your input in advance.
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • shawn peterson
                        If the weather holds is exactly what you described.  Last year I was stuck in 8 straight days of run, thunder, and lightning.  The likes of which I would
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 31, 2013
                          If the weather holds is exactly what you described.  Last year I was stuck in 8 straight days of run, thunder, and lightning.  The likes of which I would never attempt to go over some of the southern passes if it was acting like that.

                          My out is Kearsage if I have to bail early due to delays in weather.  I'll grab some stuff from Independence and head back out.

                          I'm planning 2,500-3,000 calories a day. Lots of olive oil, couscous and lots of protein powders to supplement my other foods and up my calories.  Those items fill dead space easier in the can and go a long way...especially the extra protein.


                          From: john_friend <yahoo@...>
                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 8:34 PM
                          Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: MTR To Whitney w/ a Bearikade Weekender

                           
                          OK, others on the trail were doing 7 days of food in a Weekender (with a lot of squishing/squeezing) so I buy that logic if your food type/calorie count allows.

                          I'm not sure what you mean by "if the weather holds". I had seven consecutive days of some rain on my trip including several torrential downpours, a couple hailstorms, several afternoons where it would have been foolish to be crossing a pass, etc.... This was perhaps a little out of pattern (two weather systems from the gulf I was told feeding the behavior), but it's what I had to deal with even though it is not currently doing that. The weather forced my plans to be altered many times. As long as you know what your safe alternative is if the weather forces you to change plans (e.g. an extra resupply) and you aren't too eager to attempt risky behavior to try to stay on schedule, you could be OK.

                          How many calories are you planning per day?

                          --John

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, pdawg893@... wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks for replying John. I understand your confusion with my post. Earlier in the month I explained I was hiking in from Florence and skipping MTR. Thus I have Additional mileage just to get to MTR on my first day. I shoulda put a quick note to recap the old email but I was lazy. My first night off trail is where I live partway through the year at 5800 feet. My first camp for acclimatization is near Piute bridge and then my second night will be in evolution valley past McClure. I plan to Cary this first two days on trail in a bag outside of my bear can and use a
                          >
                          > I know how to hang but It was recommended by several people to try the bridge because it would be easier and faster and when the water is raging and the rope was out of bear reach it was a good option.
                          >
                          > If I can fit 6-7 days of food in my weekender and carry my first two days then I'm golden. I've always carried a bear vault so my questions were due to unfamiliarity with the true capacity of the weekender.
                          >
                          > Someone suggested the ursack but I'm against buying a 65 dollar bag that isn't even meant or designed for hanging And weighs another half pound. Most people don't understand the ursack is meant to be tied to trunks, branches etc. one of the reasons why I think it will never be ok'd for use everywhere because a bear can baffles a lot of people and the ursack makes it even more confusing if you've never used one.
                          >
                          > Anyway, it sounds like my food plan should work out if the weather holds. Thanks for the input
                          >
                          >
                          > Sent from my iPhone
                          >
                          > On Jul 31, 2013, at 7:11 PM, "john_friend" <yahoo@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > I just finished the JMT SOBO yesterday. There are a couple things about your hypothesis that I don't understand.
                          > >
                          > > 1) The Piute Bridge is only a couple miles from MTR. You typically arrive at MTR sometime midday or late day, process your resupply and head to the camping areas near the Piute Bridge for that night (I actually hiked late into the evening and went a few miles past the Paiute Bridge just to get a little further head start on the next day - but that was a big mistake for me because I ran into a driving rainstorm with no place to camp for a couple miles - ahh, but that's another story). Getting to the Paiute Bridge is not a whole day's worth of food, nor a whole day's worth of progress. It's a couple miles. Certainly, you don't need to pack that first evening's dinner in the bear container as you will eat it before sleeping, but you can't count that as a whole day's worth of food or a day's worth of progress. It's only a couple miles progress and one dinner only. So, I think you're already a day off in your thinking.
                          > >
                          > > 2) You are allowed to hang food for the couple days out of MTR (bear containers are not technically required). This is presumably because bears are not a big problem in those areas (which doesn't mean you don't still need to be careful - but I think is indicative of the risk). You don't have to hang off a bridge, but you would have to know how to properly hang. There are plenty of trees to facilitate hanging all the way up from MTR to about 11,000' on the way to Muir Pass). The map shows the forested areas pretty well.
                          > >
                          > > 3) How much food you can fit into the weekender really depends upon your food choices. It depends upon how many calories/day you are taking and how volume dense your food is (e.g. how much space those calories take). I took a Bearikade Expedition (900 cubic inches vs. 650 for the Weekender) and could just barely fit 9 days of food into that (not counting the first dinner) while carrying 3000 calories/day (1.5 lbs/day). I could not fit any of my other scentables (toothpaste, sunscreen, bug repellent, etc...). So, for more specific advice, I think you'd need to provide more info on the specific food choices. It really depends upon the volume of your food choices.
                          > >
                          > > 4) I decided to put a LOKSAK OPSak Odor-Proof bag in my MTR resupply kit and I used that for my scentables when they wouldn't fit into my bear container and in case any food wouldn't fit. I intended to hang The OPSak, but since all my food did fit in the container so the OPSak only had scentables in it (things that wouldn't have aborted my trip if I lost), I ended up not hanging it and didn't have a problem. I don't know if that's a good risk or not, but I never even had chipmunks or marmots interested in the OPSak when they were certainly interested in many other items around so I think it does its odor proof job.
                          > >
                          > > My conclusion is that, unless you're carrying far fewer calories than I did, or somehow have much more volume dense food (I was even supplementing with olive oil to up my density), I don't see how you possibly get 9 days of food in a weekender. The folks I saw on the trail with weekenders all had at most 7 days of food in them (even counting the 1 dinner shortcut the first night after MTR). I personally talked to 4-5 groups of people carrying weekenders who were doing an additional resupply on the last segment.
                          > >
                          > > --John
                          > >
                          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "pdawg893" <pdawg893@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Ok, so I posted about a month ago for some input on my mileage from MTR to Whitney. I am hiking solo.
                          > > >
                          > > > Now that I have that squared away I have a few questions about my logic. Keep in mind my mission (my fitness is good and my pack is light) is to avoid going over Kearsage at all costs so the siren's of cheeseburgers and warm beds don't lure me away from the trail never to return.
                          > > >
                          > > > 1) I think I can cram 6-7 days of food into my Bearikade Weekender. Lets assume this logic works and based upon experience from others 6 is about right but I'm praying my food choices get me 7!
                          > > >
                          > > > 2) If I carry Day 1 and Day 2 food in a sack, camp at the Piute Creek Bridge, eat day 1's food as I hike and set up Day 1 camp, camp and hang the bag from the Brige at Piute Creek, wake up and eat my food for day from teh hanging bag then I have not busted into my bear can until Day 3. All my smellies will have to go in the hang bag for the night. Any problems with hanging a bag off the bridge? Will a ranger take my food?
                          > > >
                          > > > 3) This should give 8-9 days of food.
                          > > >
                          > > > 4) As I near Kearsage, I will know how I am doing and if I get held up by weather or fire (god forbid) I will have to bail there due to food shortage.
                          > > >
                          > > > 5) I don't want to waste money on a resupply package to Independence if I don't have to. If I do end up having to leave the trail, is there anything at all I can buy in Independence or is it limited to not possible?
                          > > >
                          > > > Thank you for your input in advance.
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >



                        • robert shattuck
                          Yeah, the bridge at Piute has quite the current under it---a short line ought to work fine. Plus, as far as bears go, the construction of the bridge is all
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 1, 2013
                            Yeah, the bridge at Piute has quite the current under it---a short line ought to work fine. Plus, as far as bears go, the construction of the bridge is all metal---I would think a bear, no matter how nimble, would get very little grip/ traction if trying to climb about. 

                            The next two bridges, about 3-4 miles up have a fair amount of air under them. 

                            Bob Shattuck

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Jul 31, 2013, at 3:13 PM, "cjoslyn99" <cjoslyn99@...> wrote:

                             


                            I think Piute Creek bridge is the first one you hit out of MTR, no?

                            If so, my recollection is it's one of those iron jobs over raging
                            waters. I believe you should be able to hang it from underneath (i.e.,
                            lean over carefully and tie into the understructure) in such a way that
                            a bear could not reach around and get the rope or reach up from the
                            water.

                            I hung my excess food / smellables off of one of the bridges farther
                            down South Fork San Joaquin River that way on my first night out of MTR
                            and had no issues.

                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, longritchie wrote:
                            >
                            > A bear could probably retrieve something hung off of a bridge. This is
                            why bear bagging evolved into the counter-balance method, so the bear
                            can't easily reach the cord.
                            >
                            > I think a better solution is an ursack in addition to your canister.
                            It's a better protection against possible bears and it provides ample
                            space for extra food at first and for garbarge later. I don't know if
                            it's legal in that part of the Sierra but I think it's the best solution
                            if your alternatives are inadequate hanging, carrying two bear canisters
                            or going hungry.
                            >
                            > >
                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "pdawg893" pdawg893@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > > 2) If I carry Day 1 and Day 2 food in a sack, camp at the Piute
                            Creek Bridge, eat day 1's food as I hike and set up Day 1 camp, camp and
                            hang the bag from the Brige at Piute Creek, wake up and eat my food for
                            day from teh hanging bag then I have not busted into my bear can until
                            Day 3. All my smellies will have to go in the hang bag for the night.
                            Any problems with hanging a bag off the bridge? Will a ranger take my
                            food?
                            > >
                            > >

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