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Re: Starting at Glacier Point

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  • walkingwomad
    I hope you don t mind Spencer, if I ask an additional question here. Don t mean to hijack your thread ;c) I just have a question concerning the same topic,
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 22 11:20 PM
      I hope you don't mind Spencer, if I ask an additional question here. Don't mean to hijack your thread ;c) I just have a question concerning the same topic, except for the part that I have and HI -> LYV permit (incl. HD permit)

      I'm not sure yet how to plan my first two days... I definitely want to climb half dome.
      It all depends a bit upon whether I have to spend the first night at LYV or not.

      If not (I will ask the ranger when I collect my permit)and if I'm feeling well, I think on day 1 I might hike past HD Junction, set up camp there and climb HD early in the morning of day 2. I'd leave my tent set up when climbing HD and then break it down when I come back and move on the sunrise camp or cathedral lakes.
      I think this plan might work quite well...IF I am allowed to hike and camp past LYV on the first night.

      Now if I have to camp at LYV... I don't really have a plan yet... Do you guys have any advice for me?
      As far as I can see I have several options:
      1. Set camp at LYV, climb HD and return at LYV (all at day 1.. Might just be tooo much for day 1). Sleep. Move on to Sunrise camp/cathedral lakes on day 2.
      2. Set camp at LYV at day 1, take water and some snacks with me, climb HD, return to LYV, break down camp and move on towards sunrise or cathedral lakes (which would make day 2 quite a hard day)
      3. Set camp at LYV at day 1, break camp in the morning of day 2, head towards HD, leave my pack at the base of HD (or hide it somewhere? Of course with the bear can outside ;c), climb HD and move on towards sunrise or cathedral lakes. (Though I do not feel veeery comfortable leaving my pack unattended...)

      One additional question: Are there good camping spots between Clouds Rest Junction and Sunrise camp? (just in case I'd be totally tired... for instance when I choose option 2) As far as I recall, this might be a dry stretch. Or would it be better to keep moving till sunrise camp or cathedral lakes?

      Thanks! Helen
    • Spencer Goodwine
      Out of those 3 options that you ve given. I would definitely go with option 3. For option 1&2, you will have to climb about 1500 feet just to get to the base
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 23 6:32 AM
        Out of those 3 options that you've given. I would definitely go with option 3. For option 1&2, you will have to climb about 1500 feet just to get to the base of HD from LYV, you're not going to want to repeat that task twice if you don't have to. My recommendation is to leave early, before sunrise...use your headlamp. Going early ensures that you will see sunrise, which is spectacular, beat the crowds, and beat the heat. When you get to the junction, there is a little knoll on the right side, this is where me and my fiance stashed our backpacks. We took out our bearcans and placed them 20 feet away from our packs...don't forget that you do not want any food in your pack when you leave it or you may come back to a shredded mess. The knoll provides enough distance off of/hiding from the trail, we didn't have a problem and we went so early that there were only a couple individuals that we passed on the way back down HD to the junction. So less risk of people messing with your stuff. We carried water and a camera to the top, grabbed our stuff on the way back down and went on to Cathedral Lakes. There are not any options for camping between Sunrise and Cathedral Lakes that I'm aware of. There is a creek (sunrise creek I believe) that is before Sunrise High Sierra Camp that would make a decent camp spot IF the creek is flowing. A ranger before we went assured us that it was not flowing and that we would need to either make to Cathedral or bail at Sunrise Lakes. Low-and-behold when we arrived at the creek, it was indeed flowing, but little more than a trickle (enough to get water from). I have no idea what it would be like this year. We carried 5 liters each from LYV, so we didn't need water and pressed on to Cathedral.


        On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 1:20 AM, walkingwomad <helenbeckers@...> wrote:
         



        I hope you don't mind Spencer, if I ask an additional question here. Don't mean to hijack your thread ;c) I just have a question concerning the same topic, except for the part that I have and HI -> LYV permit (incl. HD permit)

        I'm not sure yet how to plan my first two days... I definitely want to climb half dome.
        It all depends a bit upon whether I have to spend the first night at LYV or not.

        If not (I will ask the ranger when I collect my permit)and if I'm feeling well, I think on day 1 I might hike past HD Junction, set up camp there and climb HD early in the morning of day 2. I'd leave my tent set up when climbing HD and then break it down when I come back and move on the sunrise camp or cathedral lakes.
        I think this plan might work quite well...IF I am allowed to hike and camp past LYV on the first night.

        Now if I have to camp at LYV... I don't really have a plan yet... Do you guys have any advice for me?
        As far as I can see I have several options:
        1. Set camp at LYV, climb HD and return at LYV (all at day 1.. Might just be tooo much for day 1). Sleep. Move on to Sunrise camp/cathedral lakes on day 2.
        2. Set camp at LYV at day 1, take water and some snacks with me, climb HD, return to LYV, break down camp and move on towards sunrise or cathedral lakes (which would make day 2 quite a hard day)
        3. Set camp at LYV at day 1, break camp in the morning of day 2, head towards HD, leave my pack at the base of HD (or hide it somewhere? Of course with the bear can outside ;c), climb HD and move on towards sunrise or cathedral lakes. (Though I do not feel veeery comfortable leaving my pack unattended...)

        One additional question: Are there good camping spots between Clouds Rest Junction and Sunrise camp? (just in case I'd be totally tired... for instance when I choose option 2) As far as I recall, this might be a dry stretch. Or would it be better to keep moving till sunrise camp or cathedral lakes?

        Thanks! Helen


      • Chris
        mmcbri4: I think you re getting some non-official advice here, and I feel the need to add my two cents. I was in the same permit boat as you, and I looked
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 23 9:44 PM
          mmcbri4:

          I think you're getting some "non-official" advice here, and I feel the need to add my two cents. I was in the same permit boat as you, and I looked into all the alternative trailheads, including the Glacier Point - Illilouette option (I was forced to choose the Mirror Lake-Snow Creek permit because it was the only option).

          Anyway, when talking to the Yosemite permit ranger, she said for the GP-Illilouette permit, you need to camp in Illilouette Valley, at least 1.5 to 2 miles south of the trail junction with the Panorama Trail. The arrowheads on the trails on this PDF signify "dispersed camping beyond this point":

          http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/upload/Wilderness-Trailheads_07-14-2013_28x38-1.pdf

          For all Yosemite trailheads, I know you can't camp along the trail before the arrowhead, but I don't know if you can hike past the arrowhead, then hike around some other way and end up in some other totally different location. In your case, I don't know for sure, but I doubt it is legal to hike south (up) Illilouette Valley, past the arrowhead, then take Mono Meadows Trail over to LYV to camp there the first night. What I suspect is that a ranger would frown on you camping your first night in LYV.

          There's been an ongoing discussion/disagreement on this board about the perceived problem of "alternative trailheads" to access the JMT. Originally, I didn't think it was much of a concern, but when I think of the possibility that someone with a GP - Illilouette permit (or almost any other permit) could camp in LYV for their first night, I can see why the NPS rangers are concerned by their lack of control over reducing overcrowding in popular sites.

          Anyway, to avoid issues with rangers the first night, my advice would be to camp the first night somewhere in or near Illilouette Valley, then bag Half Dome the second day and camp your second night somewhere along the trail on the up to Sunset or Cathedral Lakes.

          I'd love to hear from folks with more experience.

          Good luck and have fun planning your trip,

          Chris.

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Spencer Goodwine <sdgoodwine@...> wrote:
          >
          > Last year I had a Glacier Point entry, but had LYV the first night. On day
          > 2, I went to the top of Half-Dome on the way to Cathedral Lakes.
          >
          > For you, option one is to get on the first morning bus up to Glacier and
          > attempt Half-dome and then head on to the first legal camping spot after
          > Half-Dome (Which is the Clouds Rest junction if I'm not mistaken). This
          > would be a pretty intense first day. Option 2 is to hike to the first legal
          > camping spot on Day 1 (clouds rest junc) , set-up camp and plan a sunrise
          > Half Dome hike. On Day 2, get up before sunrise-backtrack the mile or so to
          > the Half-dome Juction...You could leave your camp pitched and take just a
          > bottle of water and your camera and head up to the top. Then on your way
          > back through tear-down camp and head on to Cathederal Lakes (I'm assuming
          > that is your next stop). Of course now Day 2 will be a killer day. Option 3
          > is to skip Half-Dome altogether.
          >
          > I don't remember exactly how they processed my half-dome permit last year,
          > but if you reserved a specific date for half-dome, that would be the only
          > valid date. You can probably change it when you pick-up your wilderness
          > permit without much problem though.
          >
          >
          > On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:36 AM, mmcbri4 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > All the permits were taken for Happy Isles, so I have a permit for Glacier
          > > Point-Illouette and half dome permit for the same day. I have hit some
          > > logistical snags and any answers to these questions would be very helpful!
          > >
          > > -I will be arriving from San Fran and will get into the valley approx 1:30
          > > the day before my permit starts. My bus will drop me off at the Yosemite
          > > Lodge and from here I will need to rent a bear canister from the wilderness
          > > permit station. Are these locations close together? OR can I rent a
          > > canister up at Glacier Point?
          > >
          > > -I also have a permit for half dome. It says on my permit is not valid for
          > > Little Yosemite Valley and I have to hike past Buena Vista Trail before
          > > camping. Am I expected to hike the panorama trail and half dome in one day?
          > > Or is there somewhere along the way or near the base of the Half Dome
          > > junction where I can camp? And would my permit for half dome still be valid
          > > the following day?
          > >
          > > -I was planning on taking the shuttle to glacier point on the day of my
          > > permit to start my hike. I assume this will only work if I am able to camp
          > > somewhere before hiking half dome or else I'd need to get a much earlier
          > > start.
          > >
          > > Thanks for any help you may have! Any other advice about Glacier Point,
          > > Half Dome, and bear canister logistics would be much appreciated!
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • joeganik
          Chris is right. Glacier Point to Illilouette was my permit for my JMT trip I finished just 2 weeks ago. The rangers specified that I go 1.5 - 2 mi south of the
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 24 12:18 PM
            Chris is right. Glacier Point to Illilouette was my permit for my JMT trip I finished just 2 weeks ago. The rangers specified that I go 1.5 - 2 mi south of the Buena Vista trail junction, however, I don't think I went much more than a mile before I found some really great sites along Illilouette Creek. You're not suppose to get on the JMT until the next day. It was a really short 1st day, but I had some family with me for the start of the trip, so getting the views of the entire valley along the Panorama Trail was a treat.


            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cehauser1@...> wrote:
            >
            > mmcbri4:
            >
            > I think you're getting some "non-official" advice here, and I feel the need to add my two cents. I was in the same permit boat as you, and I looked into all the alternative trailheads, including the Glacier Point - Illilouette option (I was forced to choose the Mirror Lake-Snow Creek permit because it was the only option).
            >
            > Anyway, when talking to the Yosemite permit ranger, she said for the GP-Illilouette permit, you need to camp in Illilouette Valley, at least 1.5 to 2 miles south of the trail junction with the Panorama Trail. The arrowheads on the trails on this PDF signify "dispersed camping beyond this point":
            >
            > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/upload/Wilderness-Trailheads_07-14-2013_28x38-1.pdf
            >
            > For all Yosemite trailheads, I know you can't camp along the trail before the arrowhead, but I don't know if you can hike past the arrowhead, then hike around some other way and end up in some other totally different location. In your case, I don't know for sure, but I doubt it is legal to hike south (up) Illilouette Valley, past the arrowhead, then take Mono Meadows Trail over to LYV to camp there the first night. What I suspect is that a ranger would frown on you camping your first night in LYV.
            >
            > There's been an ongoing discussion/disagreement on this board about the perceived problem of "alternative trailheads" to access the JMT. Originally, I didn't think it was much of a concern, but when I think of the possibility that someone with a GP - Illilouette permit (or almost any other permit) could camp in LYV for their first night, I can see why the NPS rangers are concerned by their lack of control over reducing overcrowding in popular sites.
            >
            > Anyway, to avoid issues with rangers the first night, my advice would be to camp the first night somewhere in or near Illilouette Valley, then bag Half Dome the second day and camp your second night somewhere along the trail on the up to Sunset or Cathedral Lakes.
            >
            > I'd love to hear from folks with more experience.
            >
            > Good luck and have fun planning your trip,
            >
            > Chris.
            >
            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Spencer Goodwine <sdgoodwine@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Last year I had a Glacier Point entry, but had LYV the first night. On day
            > > 2, I went to the top of Half-Dome on the way to Cathedral Lakes.
            > >
            > > For you, option one is to get on the first morning bus up to Glacier and
            > > attempt Half-dome and then head on to the first legal camping spot after
            > > Half-Dome (Which is the Clouds Rest junction if I'm not mistaken). This
            > > would be a pretty intense first day. Option 2 is to hike to the first legal
            > > camping spot on Day 1 (clouds rest junc) , set-up camp and plan a sunrise
            > > Half Dome hike. On Day 2, get up before sunrise-backtrack the mile or so to
            > > the Half-dome Juction...You could leave your camp pitched and take just a
            > > bottle of water and your camera and head up to the top. Then on your way
            > > back through tear-down camp and head on to Cathederal Lakes (I'm assuming
            > > that is your next stop). Of course now Day 2 will be a killer day. Option 3
            > > is to skip Half-Dome altogether.
            > >
            > > I don't remember exactly how they processed my half-dome permit last year,
            > > but if you reserved a specific date for half-dome, that would be the only
            > > valid date. You can probably change it when you pick-up your wilderness
            > > permit without much problem though.
            > >
            > >
            > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:36 AM, mmcbri4 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
            > >
            > > > **
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > All the permits were taken for Happy Isles, so I have a permit for Glacier
            > > > Point-Illouette and half dome permit for the same day. I have hit some
            > > > logistical snags and any answers to these questions would be very helpful!
            > > >
            > > > -I will be arriving from San Fran and will get into the valley approx 1:30
            > > > the day before my permit starts. My bus will drop me off at the Yosemite
            > > > Lodge and from here I will need to rent a bear canister from the wilderness
            > > > permit station. Are these locations close together? OR can I rent a
            > > > canister up at Glacier Point?
            > > >
            > > > -I also have a permit for half dome. It says on my permit is not valid for
            > > > Little Yosemite Valley and I have to hike past Buena Vista Trail before
            > > > camping. Am I expected to hike the panorama trail and half dome in one day?
            > > > Or is there somewhere along the way or near the base of the Half Dome
            > > > junction where I can camp? And would my permit for half dome still be valid
            > > > the following day?
            > > >
            > > > -I was planning on taking the shuttle to glacier point on the day of my
            > > > permit to start my hike. I assume this will only work if I am able to camp
            > > > somewhere before hiking half dome or else I'd need to get a much earlier
            > > > start.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for any help you may have! Any other advice about Glacier Point,
            > > > Half Dome, and bear canister logistics would be much appreciated!
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • ravi_jmt2013
            I meant to follow up with this earlier... I spoke to P.J. at the wilderness permit office on Monday and confirmed that one is allowed to hike past Little
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 24 12:40 PM
              I meant to follow up with this earlier... I spoke to P.J. at the wilderness permit office on Monday and confirmed that one is allowed to hike past Little Yosemite Valley on a GP>>LYV permit but must hike at least two miles past LYV prior to camping. This means that camping at the Cloud's Rest trail junction area is legal with this permit.


              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Spencer Goodwine <sdgoodwine@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I asked this this question last year when picking up my JMT wilderness
              > > permit and the Park Ranger stated that I cannot go beyond LYV the first
              > > night. So it seems you can get 2 completely different answers and it comes
              > > down to the ranger issuing the permit.
              > >
              >
              > That's good to know... I should have kept the name of the ranger I spoke to a few months ago. I'll just hope for the best and see what happens.
              >
            • Don Amundson
              I ve looked at the Yosemite Wilderness Trailhead Map that joeganik linked too a zillion times. This time I looked at the info in the bottom left corner that
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 24 7:07 PM
                I've looked at the Yosemite Wilderness Trailhead Map that joeganik linked too a zillion times.  This time I looked at the info in the bottom left corner that says:

                Yosemite Trailheads Map
                Wilderness hikers must camp in the area indicated on the map for their corresponding trailhead.

                • Colored lines and arrows indicate direction of travel for each trailhead.
                • Hikers must at least hike to the arrow or point before camping.Colored lines and arrows indicate direction of travel for each trailhead.
                • If point is shown hikers must camp at point. They may camp beyond
                • Hikers may not backtrack from one trailhead to another trailhead on any night of their trip (either partially or fully) unless exiting at their entry trailhead to end their wilderness trip.
                • Hikers may not pass through Yosemite Valley on a single wilderness permit.

                The "may camp beyond" would certainly confirm to me that you don't have to camp at LYV if you have a HI to LYV permit.  Then again some officials might argue in favor of the statement proceeding the "may camp beyond." One has to wonder about the "hikers must camp at point" is about.  If I remember the wording somewhere says the HI to LYV says you may/can camp at LYV not that you must. 


                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                From: ravi@...
                Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 19:40:09 +0000
                Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Starting at Glacier Point

                 
                I meant to follow up with this earlier... I spoke to P.J. at the wilderness permit office on Monday and confirmed that one is allowed to hike past Little Yosemite Valley on a GP>>LYV permit but must hike at least two miles past LYV prior to camping. This means that camping at the Cloud's Rest trail junction area is legal with this permit.

                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Spencer Goodwine <sdgoodwine@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I asked this this question last year when picking up my JMT wilderness
                > > permit and the Park Ranger stated that I cannot go beyond LYV the first
                > > night. So it seems you can get 2 completely different answers and it comes
                > > down to the ranger issuing the permit.
                > >
                >
                > That's good to know... I should have kept the name of the ranger I spoke to a few months ago. I'll just hope for the best and see what happens.
                >


              • ravi_jmt2013
                ... has to wonder about the hikers must camp at point is about. If I remember the wording somewhere says the HI to LYV says you may/can camp at LYV not that
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 24 7:23 PM
                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@...> wrote:
                  >
                  has to wonder about the "hikers must camp at point" is about. If I remember the wording somewhere says the HI to LYV says you may/can camp at LYV not that you must.
                  >
                  >

                  On the map (http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/upload/Wilderness-Trailheads_07-14-2013_28x38-1.pdf) some of the trailheads end in a "point" which looks like a small circle rather than ending in an arrow. For example, my permit for GP>>LYV (3A) is a blue line ending in a circle at LYV. This was my concern... That I must camp at that point the first night. However, both times I have talked to rangers they told me that continuing on to Sunrise creek is ok as long as I'm two miles from LYV ... Above the half dome junction.
                • thelins72
                  I was able to get a permit for starting at Glacier Point, but was not able to get LYV, so I have to spend my first night at Illilouette Creek, and then am
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 25 12:06 AM
                    I was able to get a permit for starting at Glacier Point, but was not able to get LYV, so I have to spend my first night at Illilouette Creek, and then am allowed to join the JMT next day.

                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I've looked at the Yosemite Wilderness Trailhead Map that joeganik linked too a zillion times. This time I looked at the info in the bottom left corner that says:
                    >
                    > Yosemite Trailheads Map
                    > Wilderness hikers must camp in the area indicated on the map for their corresponding trailhead.
                    >
                    > Colored lines and arrows indicate direction of travel for each trailhead.Hikers must at least hike to the arrow or point before camping.Colored
                    > lines and arrows indicate direction of travel for each trailhead.If point is shown hikers must camp at point. They may camp beyondHikers may not backtrack from one trailhead to another trailhead on any
                    > night of their trip (either partially or fully) unless exiting at their
                    > entry trailhead to end their wilderness trip.Hikers may not pass through Yosemite Valley on a single wilderness permit.
                    >
                    > The "may camp beyond" would certainly confirm to me that you don't have to camp at LYV if you have a HI to LYV permit. Then again some officials might argue in favor of the statement proceeding the "may camp beyond." One has to wonder about the "hikers must camp at point" is about. If I remember the wording somewhere says the HI to LYV says you may/can camp at LYV not that you must.
                    >
                    > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: ravi@...
                    > Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 19:40:09 +0000
                    > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Starting at Glacier Point
                    >
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                    > I meant to follow up with this earlier... I spoke to P.J. at the wilderness permit office on Monday and confirmed that one is allowed to hike past Little Yosemite Valley on a GP>>LYV permit but must hike at least two miles past LYV prior to camping. This means that camping at the Cloud's Rest trail junction area is legal with this permit.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Spencer Goodwine <sdgoodwine@> wrote:
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > I asked this this question last year when picking up my JMT wilderness
                    >
                    > > > permit and the Park Ranger stated that I cannot go beyond LYV the first
                    >
                    > > > night. So it seems you can get 2 completely different answers and it comes
                    >
                    > > > down to the ranger issuing the permit.
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > That's good to know... I should have kept the name of the ranger I spoke to a few months ago. I'll just hope for the best and see what happens.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
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