Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: Trail routing in Yosemite for purists

Expand Messages
  • robert shattuck
    Chris, yes. If you head up fish creek rather than the JMT you ll have no problem hitting Iva bell. My assumption was you be on the JMT--then you d have to to
    Message 1 of 27 , Jul 20, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Chris, yes. If you head up fish creek rather than the JMT you'll have no problem hitting Iva bell. My assumption was you be on the JMT--then you'd have to to hit the junction and go north again. My guess regarding which hot springs might be closed, would be Iva bell. 

      No one who's done the trail so far this season has mentioned going there. Most don't make the backwards detour, but lots hit blaney since its right there at MTR . 

      Bob
      Sent from my iPhone

      On Jul 19, 2013, at 11:40 PM, "Chris" <cehauser1@...> wrote:

       

      Hi Robert:

      Blaney HS: Yes, I'm planning to stop there for the night... part of my MTR resupply.

      Iva Bell HS: Not sure what you mean about going backwards. I'm heading SOBO, and I was planning to walk due south out of Red's Meadow to Fish Creek, then up the Cascade Valley to Iva Bell HS. However, are you suggesting I stay on the JMT all the way past Tully Hole, then backtrack northwest down Cascade Valley to Iva Bell? I'm interested in options for stopping at Iva Bell and still not miss Virginia Lake.

      Thanks...

      Thanks,

      Chris.

      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:
      >
      > " . . . and also my reason for diverting off the JMT to soak in the Iva Bell Hot Springs."
      >
      > You could divert off the JMT and walk backwards to Iva bell . . . . are you also going to hit Blaney? Much less time going backwards . . .
      > BOB
      > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
      >

    • Chris
      Robert: Sounds like you are suggesting what I was planning to do: From Red s Meadow, detour off JMT, hike due south down to Fish Creek, then east upstream to
      Message 2 of 27 , Jul 20, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Robert:
        Sounds like you are suggesting what I was planning to do: From Red's Meadow, detour off JMT, hike due south down to Fish Creek, then east upstream to Iva Bell. Afterwards, hike east up Cascade Canyon to rejoin JMT south of Tully Hole.

        Theresa Gilliland:
        Can you please elaborate on what you said about the hot springs being closed? Iva Bell, or another location? Is it possible this statement is derived from when the hot spring showers at Red's Meadow were closed? Thanks.

        Chris.





        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:
        >
        > Chris, yes. If you head up fish creek rather than the JMT you'll have no problem hitting Iva bell. My assumption was you be on the JMT--then you'd have to to hit the junction and go north again. My guess regarding which hot springs might be closed, would be Iva bell.
        >
        > No one who's done the trail so far this season has mentioned going there. Most don't make the backwards detour, but lots hit blaney since its right there at MTR .
        >
        > Bob
        > Sent from my iPhone
        >
        > On Jul 19, 2013, at 11:40 PM, "Chris" <cehauser1@...> wrote:
        >
      • Dave
        Thanks for the tip about LeConte to HI. I can do that as my last warm up walk the evening before I start.
        Message 3 of 27 , Jul 20, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks for the tip about LeConte to HI. I can do that as my last warm up walk the evening before I start.

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
          >
          > Steve
          > The official JMT crosses 120 and goes by Parsons Lodge and Soda Springs.
          > Somewhere on here there is a thread about this. IMO if you don't walk
          > across TM then, well, then you don't see it. There are kind of two
          > "purist" ways to walk the JMT: follow the JMT, or follow wildness!
          > I've done it both ways. By staying south of 120, and if you don't exit
          > to resupply, you can actually walk from Yosemite Valley to Whitney
          > Portal ~220 miles without crossing a road or eating a hamburger!
          > If you are JMT obsessed, you will need to start at the LeConte Memorial
          > in YV and make your way thru Curry Village which was built on top of the
          > trail, to get to Happy Isle. Also, you'll need to pay close attention
          > and NOT follow the PCT out of Reds. The JMT and PCT are different
          > alignments from Reds Meadow to Crater Meadow.
          > If you are fortunate, you can take an older abandoned alignment from
          > lower Crater Meadow to Upper Crater Meadow and stil see a really cool
          > old enameled JMT sign in a tree (if it didn't blow over in last years
          > wind event) see Walk the Sky page 48. It's pretty hard to find.
          > Either way, it's a fine walk!
          > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
          > <http://www.johndittli.com>
          >
        • Theresa
          Red meadows rep told me the hot springs where closed by the forestry dept...unknown if all where closed.  Ciao Namaste, Theresa Gilliland 505-797-2993 hm
          Message 4 of 27 , Jul 20, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Red meadows rep told me the hot springs where closed by the forestry dept...unknown if all where closed. 


            Ciao
            Namaste,
            Theresa Gilliland

            505-797-2993 hm
            530-409-1659 ce
            182 Big Horn Ridge Dr NE
            Albuquerque NM 87122

            Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone



            -------- Original message --------
            From: Chris <cehauser1@...>
            Date:
            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Trail routing in Yosemite for purists


             

            Robert:
            Sounds like you are suggesting what I was planning to do: From Red's Meadow, detour off JMT, hike due south down to Fish Creek, then east upstream to Iva Bell. Afterwards, hike east up Cascade Canyon to rejoin JMT south of Tully Hole.

            Theresa Gilliland:
            Can you please elaborate on what you said about the hot springs being closed? Iva Bell, or another location? Is it possible this statement is derived from when the hot spring showers at Red's Meadow were closed? Thanks.

            Chris.

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:
            >
            > Chris, yes. If you head up fish creek rather than the JMT you'll have no problem hitting Iva bell. My assumption was you be on the JMT--then you'd have to to hit the junction and go north again. My guess regarding which hot springs might be closed, would be Iva bell.
            >
            > No one who's done the trail so far this season has mentioned going there. Most don't make the backwards detour, but lots hit blaney since its right there at MTR .
            >
            > Bob
            > Sent from my iPhone
            >
            > On Jul 19, 2013, at 11:40 PM, "Chris" <cehauser1@...> wrote:
            >

          • ravi_jmt2013
            ... It looks like the Harrison maps have the JMT and PCT on the same alignment south of Reds Meadow. Is the original JMT alignment the one that heads east out
            Message 5 of 27 , Jul 21, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
              >, you'll need to pay close attention
              > and NOT follow the PCT out of Reds.

              It looks like the Harrison maps have the JMT and PCT on the same alignment south of Reds Meadow. Is the original JMT alignment the one that heads east out of Red's toward Mammoth Pass and eventually goes over Red Cones before rejoining the PCT at Crater Meadow?
            • John
              That is correct. There are only a few maps left that show (label) the historic routing: the 15 USGS Devils Postpile quadrangle (out of print) and the
              Message 6 of 27 , Jul 21, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                That is correct. There are only a few maps left that show (label) the historic routing: the 15' USGS Devils Postpile quadrangle (out of print) and the interagency John Muir Wilderness/SEKI map set. What I'm not sure of is if the Inyo NF has cleared that segment of trail since the huge blow down of Nov. 2011.

                John
                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "ravi_jmt2013" wrote:
                >
                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" johndittli@ wrote:
                > >, you'll need to pay close attention
                > > and NOT follow the PCT out of Reds.
                >
                > It looks like the Harrison maps have the JMT and PCT on the same alignment south of Reds Meadow. Is the original JMT alignment the one that heads east out of Red's toward Mammoth Pass and eventually goes over Red Cones before rejoining the PCT at Crater Meadow?
                >
              • robert shattuck
                All, I ve never been so curious or so in search of the absolute JMT purist thing, but I can tell you---there are two trails headed south out of reds. ... The
                Message 7 of 27 , Jul 21, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  All, 

                  I've never been so curious or so in search of the absolute JMT purist thing,  but I can tell you---there are two trails headed south out of reds. 

                  --- don't have the maps in front of me, but the main "official" JMT picks up down around the horse stables--just ask someone in spurs, if you can't figure it out....it then eventually goes between the two cones and if you're not paying attention, you'll almost not know that your between them. 

                  The other trail, be it of whichever designation, originates just behind the restaurant there ... I have taken this many a time as without it being any more difficult than the other, it gives/ gave you easy access to the top of the major cone.  

                  Last year, they did not clear the major damage brought about by bad weather and I heard that the plan was to not do anything and close that section. 

                  You can still take that trail and do the mammoth lakes junction which will then take you to a few lakes whose names I do not recall, but the trail heading to the top of the cone and down to Crater Meadow, is probably closed and way too much effort to try and navigate due to the many downed trees.

                  I enjoyed the easy access to the top of the cone----you can still get up there by just taking that short section on the Map there, but if you manage to find the wrong and unofficial trail going up, you're really going to get a workout.

                  Bob


                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Jul 21, 2013, at 5:58 AM, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...> wrote:

                   

                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
                  >, you'll need to pay close attention
                  > and NOT follow the PCT out of Reds.

                  It looks like the Harrison maps have the JMT and PCT on the same alignment south of Reds Meadow. Is the original JMT alignment the one that heads east out of Red's toward Mammoth Pass and eventually goes over Red Cones before rejoining the PCT at Crater Meadow?

                • Chris
                  Theresa: Thanks for clarifying. We were discussing Iva Bell Hot Spring, which is close to Red s Meadow, but not the same location. About 10 miles to the
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jul 21, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Theresa:

                    Thanks for clarifying. We were discussing Iva Bell Hot Spring, which is close to Red's Meadow, but not the same location. About 10 miles to the south, and not directly accessible from the JMT. I think Red's Meadow now has an alternative shower facility somewhere else now.

                    By the way, most of the area around Red's Meadow is within a National Forest, so it is under the jurisdiction of the US Forest Service. The California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection is a different agency.

                    Thanks again,

                    Chris.

                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Theresa <Theresa@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Red meadows rep told me the hot springs where closed by the forestry dept...unknown if all where closed. 
                    >
                    >
                    > Ciao
                    > Namaste,
                    > Theresa Gilliland
                    >
                    > 505-797-2993 hm
                    > 530-409-1659 ce
                    > 182 Big Horn Ridge Dr NE
                    > Albuquerque NM 87122
                    >
                    > Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
                    >
                    > -------- Original message --------
                    > From: Chris <cehauser1@...>
                    > Date:
                    > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Trail routing in Yosemite for purists
                    >
                    > Robert:
                    > Sounds like you are suggesting what I was planning to do: From Red's Meadow, detour off JMT, hike due south down to Fish Creek, then east upstream to Iva Bell. Afterwards, hike east up Cascade Canyon to rejoin JMT south of Tully Hole.
                    >
                    > Theresa Gilliland:
                    > Can you please elaborate on what you said about the hot springs being closed? Iva Bell, or another location? Is it possible this statement is derived from when the hot spring showers at Red's Meadow were closed? Thanks.
                    >
                    > Chris.
                    >
                    > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, robert shattuck <bobolonius@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Chris, yes. If you head up fish creek rather than the JMT you'll have no problem hitting Iva bell. My assumption was you be on the JMT--then you'd have to to hit the junction and go north again. My guess regarding which hot springs might be closed, would be Iva bell.
                    > >
                    > > No one who's done the trail so far this season has mentioned going there. Most don't make the backwards detour, but lots hit blaney since its right there at MTR .
                    > >
                    > > Bob
                    > > Sent from my iPhone
                    > >
                    > > On Jul 19, 2013, at 11:40 PM, "Chris" <cehauser1@> wrote:
                    > >
                    >
                  • knaushouse
                    The posts regarding the true or pure route to the JMT through the Tuolumne Meadows area got my curiosity going; what was the history on this? So, this weekend
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jul 22, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The posts regarding the true or pure route to the JMT through the Tuolumne Meadows area got my curiosity going; what was the history on this? So, this weekend – as a break from sorting snickers bars, Mountain House and oatmeal packets into resupply boxes – I pulled out my vintage "Guide to the John Muir Trail and the High Sierra Region" by Walter A Starr, Jr. (3rd Edition, 1946, published by the Sierra Club) to see what the word was back then. A few points of note:

                      • Page 16 – "The starting point in Yosemite is the Le Conte Memorial Lodge of the Sierra Club." (This was noted on a previous group post.)
                      • Page 18 –(Route Description) "… continue to the Tuolumne Meadows (8555' – 3.0). We proceed eastward along the southern side of the valley to Tuolumne Meadows Ranger Station (8770' – 2.5)"

                      Also noteworthy are the descriptions of several alternate routes and a note in the preface that "… roads and trails change."

                      I have scanned and attached as a pdf file select text from the book and sections of its accompanying map for reference. Note on the map the how the red line of the trail stays south of what is now Hwy 120, south of Soda Springs. Of course, trails change. Also, what constitutes 'official' over what timeframe?

                      Personally, I'm in the "hike your own hike" camp on this. Upon arrival I plan to take the southern route, grab a campsite at the backpackers' camp, grab a burger, and head to the Post Office for my resupply box. After dinner and a hops-infused malt beverage, I expect to stroll the northern loop in the evening and hopefully catch a spectacular sunset with the meadows in the foreground and colorful clouds in the background. Of course, others' approaches will differ.

                      Best regards, Chris
                      ---+---+---+---
                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <groundhogsteve@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks for the tip about LeConte to HI. I can do that as my last warm up walk the evening before I start.
                      >
                      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Steve
                      > > The official JMT crosses 120 and goes by Parsons Lodge and Soda Springs.
                    • John
                      Hi Chris This is very interesting. I couldn t find your attached pdf. I have mine in front of me now (10th edition 1967) and the map clearly shows the JMT (red
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jul 22, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Chris

                        This is very interesting. I couldn't find your attached pdf. I have mine in front of me now (10th edition 1967) and the map clearly shows the JMT (red line) crossing the Tuolumne River to Soda Springs before heading east and crossing back over the Tuolumne east of Elizabeth Creek. The words "Soda Spring" are placed well north of the actual location and if one looks closely (in my case with reading glasses!) you can see the dotted line with an arrow indicating the actual location of the spring right next to the trail. If yours indeed shows it staying south of the Tuolumne I really need to see it!!!!

                        The trail south of 120 didn't exist in Starr's time and doesn't show on any maps until the 7.5' edition released in the early '80's (it's not on  the earlier 15' map). From my research, the south side trail wasn't built until the '70's and the NPS (though lacking in signage), still considers the original alignment  the JMT. There was also a short lived effort to re-establish the trail from LeConte Memorial to HI. 

                        There is no "official" oversight of the JMT, so it's alignment can change at the whim of managing agencies; hence the old enameled Muir Trail sign that stands lost in the forest south of Red Cones. But in the TM case, the trail was moved by errors in cartography rather than the Park Service. 

                        But I'm with you, walk your own walk. As I've said before, the south side trail allows one to walk 220 miles without ever even seeing a road, and that is pretty cool.

                        JD
                        Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail

                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "knaushouse" wrote:
                        >
                        > The posts regarding the true or pure route to the JMT through the Tuolumne Meadows area got my curiosity going; what was the history on this? So, this weekend – as a break from sorting snickers bars, Mountain House and oatmeal packets into resupply boxes – I pulled out my vintage "Guide to the John Muir Trail and the High Sierra Region" by Walter A Starr, Jr. (3rd Edition, 1946, published by the Sierra Club) to see what the word was back then. A few points of note:
                        >
                        > • Page 16 – "The starting point in Yosemite is the Le Conte Memorial Lodge of the Sierra Club." (This was noted on a previous group post.)
                        > • Page 18 –(Route Description) "… continue to the Tuolumne Meadows (8555' – 3.0). We proceed eastward along the southern side of the valley to Tuolumne Meadows Ranger Station (8770' – 2.5)"
                        >
                        > Also noteworthy are the descriptions of several alternate routes and a note in the preface that "… roads and trails change."
                        >
                        > I have scanned and attached as a pdf file select text from the book and sections of its accompanying map for reference. Note on the map the how the red line of the trail stays south of what is now Hwy 120, south of Soda Springs. Of course, trails change. Also, what constitutes 'official' over what timeframe?
                        >
                        > Personally, I'm in the "hike your own hike" camp on this. Upon arrival I plan to take the southern route, grab a campsite at the backpackers' camp, grab a burger, and head to the Post Office for my resupply box. After dinner and a hops-infused malt beverage, I expect to stroll the northern loop in the evening and hopefully catch a spectacular sunset with the meadows in the foreground and colorful clouds in the background. Of course, others' approaches will differ.
                        >
                        > Best regards, Chris
                        > ---+---+---+---
                        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" groundhogsteve@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for the tip about LeConte to HI. I can do that as my last warm up walk the evening before I start.
                        > >
                        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Steve
                        > > > The official JMT crosses 120 and goes by Parsons Lodge and Soda Springs.
                        >
                      • ravi_jmt2013
                        I have the Starr guide 12th revised edition, copyright 1974 and the attached map is copyright 1970. It definitely shows the JMT going north of Tioga Road like
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jul 22, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I have the Starr guide 12th revised edition, copyright 1974 and the attached map is copyright 1970. It definitely shows the JMT going north of Tioga Road like the modern Harrison map. This map also has the dotted line with the arrow! The map differs from the Harrison map on the Red Cones segment and shows the JMT taking the trail toward Mammoth Pass from Reds before turning back to the South.

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Chris
                          > This is very interesting. I couldn't find your attached pdf. I have mine
                          > in front of me now (10th edition 1967) and the map clearly shows the JMT
                          > (red line) crossing the Tuolumne River to Soda Springs before heading
                          > east and crossing back over the Tuolumne east of Elizabeth Creek. The
                          > words "Soda Spring" are placed well north of the actual location and if
                          > one looks closely (in my case with reading glasses!) you can see the
                          > dotted line with an arrow indicating the actual location of the spring
                          > right next to the trail. If yours indeed shows it staying south of the
                          > Tuolumne I really need to see it!!!!
                          > The trail south of 120 didn't exist in Starr's time and doesn't show on
                          > any maps until the 7.5' edition released in the early '80's (it's not on
                          > the earlier 15' map). From my research, the south side trail wasn't
                          > built until the '70's and the NPS (though lacking in signage), still
                          > considers the original alignment the JMT. There was also a short lived
                          > effort to re-establish the trail from LeConte Memorial to HI.
                          > There is no "official" oversight of the JMT, so it's alignment can
                          > change at the whim of managing agencies; hence the old enameled Muir
                          > Trail sign that stands lost in the forest south of Red Cones. But in the
                          > TM case, the trail was moved by errors in cartography rather than the
                          > Park Service.
                          > But I'm with you, walk your own walk. As I've said before, the south
                          > side trail allows one to walk 220 miles without ever even seeing a road,
                          > and that is pretty cool.
                          > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
                          > <http://www.johndittli.com>
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "knaushouse" wrote:
                          > >
                          > > The posts regarding the true or pure route to the JMT through the
                          > Tuolumne Meadows area got my curiosity going; what was the history on
                          > this? So, this weekend – as a break from sorting snickers bars,
                          > Mountain House and oatmeal packets into resupply boxes – I pulled
                          > out my vintage "Guide to the John Muir Trail and the High Sierra Region"
                          > by Walter A Starr, Jr. (3rd Edition, 1946, published by the Sierra Club)
                          > to see what the word was back then. A few points of note:
                          > >
                          > > • Page 16 – "The starting point in Yosemite is the Le Conte
                          > Memorial Lodge of the Sierra Club." (This was noted on a previous group
                          > post.)
                          > > • Page 18 –(Route Description) "… continue to the Tuolumne
                          > Meadows (8555' – 3.0). We proceed eastward along the southern side
                          > of the valley to Tuolumne Meadows Ranger Station (8770' – 2.5)"
                          > >
                          > > Also noteworthy are the descriptions of several alternate routes and a
                          > note in the preface that "… roads and trails change."
                          > >
                          > > I have scanned and attached as a pdf file select text from the book
                          > and sections of its accompanying map for reference. Note on the map the
                          > how the red line of the trail stays south of what is now Hwy 120, south
                          > of Soda Springs. Of course, trails change. Also, what constitutes
                          > 'official' over what timeframe?
                          > >
                          > > Personally, I'm in the "hike your own hike" camp on this. Upon
                          > arrival I plan to take the southern route, grab a campsite at the
                          > backpackers' camp, grab a burger, and head to the Post Office for my
                          > resupply box. After dinner and a hops-infused malt beverage, I expect
                          > to stroll the northern loop in the evening and hopefully catch a
                          > spectacular sunset with the meadows in the foreground and colorful
                          > clouds in the background. Of course, others' approaches will differ.
                          > >
                          > > Best regards, Chris
                          > > ---+---+---+---
                          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" groundhogsteve@ wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks for the tip about LeConte to HI. I can do that as my last
                          > warm up walk the evening before I start.
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Steve
                          > > > > The official JMT crosses 120 and goes by Parsons Lodge and Soda
                          > Springs.
                          > >
                          >
                        • John
                          Here is the text from my Starr; ...we meet and cross the Tioga Road where the old road coming across the meadow from the river meets it. Now only a trail, we
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jul 22, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Here is the text from my Starr; "...we meet and cross the Tioga Road where the old road coming across the meadow from the river meets it. Now only a trail, we follow it across the meadow and cross the Tuolumne River on the old Bridge to the north bank... Parson's Lodge"

                            I'm now wondering if the very oldest, original alignment may have actually traversed south of the river where 120 is now. It appears the original Tioga Road actually crossed at Parsons!! That alignment may have been destroyed when they realigned the road, thereby "switching" alignments! This is pretty exciting (for me anyway). I sure would like to see a copy of your map!

                            Thanks

                            John
                            Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail


                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Chris
                            > This is very interesting. I couldn't find your attached pdf. I have mine
                            > in front of me now (10th edition 1967) and the map clearly shows the JMT
                            > (red line) crossing the Tuolumne River to Soda Springs before heading
                            > east and crossing back over the Tuolumne east of Elizabeth Creek. The
                            > words "Soda Spring" are placed well north of the actual location and if
                            > one looks closely (in my case with reading glasses!) you can see the
                            > dotted line with an arrow indicating the actual location of the spring
                            > right next to the trail. If yours indeed shows it staying south of the
                            > Tuolumne I really need to see it!!!!
                            > The trail south of 120 didn't exist in Starr's time and doesn't show on
                            > any maps until the 7.5' edition released in the early '80's (it's not on
                            > the earlier 15' map). From my research, the south side trail wasn't
                            > built until the '70's and the NPS (though lacking in signage), still
                            > considers the original alignment the JMT. There was also a short lived
                            > effort to re-establish the trail from LeConte Memorial to HI.
                            > There is no "official" oversight of the JMT, so it's alignment can
                            > change at the whim of managing agencies; hence the old enameled Muir
                            > Trail sign that stands lost in the forest south of Red Cones. But in the
                            > TM case, the trail was moved by errors in cartography rather than the
                            > Park Service.
                            > But I'm with you, walk your own walk. As I've said before, the south
                            > side trail allows one to walk 220 miles without ever even seeing a road,
                            > and that is pretty cool.
                            > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "knaushouse" wrote:
                            > >
                            > > The posts regarding the true or pure route to the JMT through the
                            > Tuolumne Meadows area got my curiosity going; what was the history on
                            > this? So, this weekend – as a break from sorting snickers bars,
                            > Mountain House and oatmeal packets into resupply boxes – I pulled
                            > out my vintage "Guide to the John Muir Trail and the High Sierra Region"
                            > by Walter A Starr, Jr. (3rd Edition, 1946, published by the Sierra Club)
                            > to see what the word was back then. A few points of note:
                            > >
                            > > • Page 16 – "The starting point in Yosemite is the Le Conte
                            > Memorial Lodge of the Sierra Club." (This was noted on a previous group
                            > post.)
                            > > • Page 18 –(Route Description) "… continue to the Tuolumne
                            > Meadows (8555' – 3.0). We proceed eastward along the southern side
                            > of the valley to Tuolumne Meadows Ranger Station (8770' – 2.5)"
                            > >
                            > > Also noteworthy are the descriptions of several alternate routes and a
                            > note in the preface that "… roads and trails change."
                            > >
                            > > I have scanned and attached as a pdf file select text from the book
                            > and sections of its accompanying map for reference. Note on the map the
                            > how the red line of the trail stays south of what is now Hwy 120, south
                            > of Soda Springs. Of course, trails change. Also, what constitutes
                            > 'official' over what timeframe?
                            > >
                            > > Personally, I'm in the "hike your own hike" camp on this. Upon
                            > arrival I plan to take the southern route, grab a campsite at the
                            > backpackers' camp, grab a burger, and head to the Post Office for my
                            > resupply box. After dinner and a hops-infused malt beverage, I expect
                            > to stroll the northern loop in the evening and hopefully catch a
                            > spectacular sunset with the meadows in the foreground and colorful
                            > clouds in the background. Of course, others' approaches will differ.
                            > >
                            > > Best regards, Chris
                            > > ---+---+---+---
                            > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" groundhogsteve@ wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks for the tip about LeConte to HI. I can do that as my last
                            > warm up walk the evening before I start.
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Steve
                            > > > > The official JMT crosses 120 and goes by Parsons Lodge and Soda
                            > Springs.
                            > >
                            >
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.