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Re: on at Virginia Lakes TH August 27, advice re schedule/sites to Tuolumne Meadow

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  • casey
    I just did that trip last week. If you have time spend a night at the trail head, there s Trumbull Lake and #139 Campgrounds. #139 is across the road and a
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 19, 2013
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      I just did that trip last week. If you have time spend a night at the trail head, there's Trumbull Lake and #139 Campgrounds. #139 is across the road and a few hundred yards before the turn into Trumbull Campground. A couple of things to keep in mind, You have to camp at least one mile from Glen Aulin and you can't camp between Glen Aulin and Toulumne Mdws. Also you have to travel 4 miles past T. Mdws. into Lyell Canyon before you can overnight.

      In the first few miles you climb about 1,200 to 1,400 ft. over an unamed pass, 11,000 ft, to the Yosemite border at Summit Lake. From there to the junction with the P.C.T. it's pretty much downhill. When you cross Virginia Creek at the junction there is a use trail that goes upstream to several camps. Leaving Virginia Creek there is a 600 ft. shaded climb and then downhill to Glen Aulin. This will be the last reliable water source before Glen Aulin by late August. Water in Cold Canyon right now is limited to small clear pools in the southern end of the meadows.

      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "whcobbs" <walter.cobbs@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > I'm in condition for backpacking AT and such, 30 lb pack, living at 300 ft elevation near Philadelphia. I'm permitted for Hoover Wilderness/Virginia Lakes trailhead, via PCT to JMT near Tuolumne Meadows and south to Whitney.
      > Seeking advice re Virginia Lakes to Tuolumne segment, pace and campsites.
      >
      > Walt
      >
    • Dittli-Goethals
      Hi Walt I just got back from a trip (5 minutes ago) that included that trail (been on it many times in the past). Summit Lake is a beautiful spot, though
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 19, 2013
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        Hi Walt

        I just got back from a trip (5 minutes ago) that included that trail (been on it many times in the past). Summit Lake is a beautiful spot, though camping is only allowed at the west end. If there is a troop of Boy Scouts there you may want to continue. Just after the trail junction to Virginia Pass you'll cross Return Creek, there is a very nice camp just up stream from the crossing. If some one is there, camping is available down Return creek but not on the trail. In fact there is surpassingly little in the way of trail side camping all the way to the PCT! However, if your creative, you can find nice spots to bed down between the trail and the creek if you are a party of one tent.

        If you turn right and hike up toward Virginia Pass, there is outstanding camping less than a mile up that trail and the flowers right now are spectacular. 

        We didn't camp here this trip, but if you can find water (or carry it) the big meadow just south of Elbow Hill is spectacular camping. Otherwise there are spots along Cold Canyon, or down by Glen Aulin. I've never heard of the 1 mile regulation, but that doesn't mean it dosen't exist. I always see a lot of people camped near there though. If this is your "one time visit" I would recommend walking down the Tuolumne to LeConte Falls (unless your going much later, then there would be little water and little point).

        Have a great trip!

        JD
        Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
        see book here 

        On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:01 AM, whcobbs <walter.cobbs@...> wrote:
         


        I'm in condition for backpacking AT and such, 30 lb pack, living at 300 ft elevation near Philadelphia. I'm permitted for Hoover Wilderness/Virginia Lakes trailhead, via PCT to JMT near Tuolumne Meadows and south to Whitney.
        Seeking advice re Virginia Lakes to Tuolumne segment, pace and campsites.

        Walt




        --
        John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
        John Dittli Photography
        www.johndittli.com
        760-934-3505 

        Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
        2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
      • whcobbs
        To all who responded, This a lot of good stuff! Water availability, campsites, altitude management. I thing the crucial point for me is to sleep at altitude
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 20, 2013
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          To all who responded,
          This a lot of good stuff! Water availability, campsites, altitude management. I thing the crucial point for me is to sleep at altitude the night before hitting the trail. Thanks for all the help,
          Walt

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <pklein95014@...> wrote:
          >
          > I saw Bob's response. I believe he's confusing Virgina Lakes where
          > you want to enter, with Virginia Lake down near Mammoth.
          >
          > Northeast Yosemite is really different and quite beautiful. I've gone
          > in thru both Va Lakes and Twin Lakes. How long do you intend to take to get to T Mdws? Your mileage/day will depend on time available, of course.
          >
          > Pete
          >
          >
          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "whcobbs" <walter.cobbs@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I'm in condition for backpacking AT and such, 30 lb pack, living at 300 ft elevation near Philadelphia. I'm permitted for Hoover Wilderness/Virginia Lakes trailhead, via PCT to JMT near Tuolumne Meadows and south to Whitney.
          > > Seeking advice re Virginia Lakes to Tuolumne segment, pace and campsites.
          > >
          > > Walt
          > >
          >
        • Theresa Gilliland
          HI Walt, As noted before, my husband and I will be doing the JMT 8/7-8/23ish....being experienced mountaineers, we know it is imperative for one to be
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 20, 2013
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            HI Walt,
            As noted before, my husband and I will be doing the JMT 8/7-8/23ish....being experienced mountaineers,  we know it is imperative for one to be acclimated. Getting AMS, HACE or HAPE will be a show stopper for you. Recovering from exertion requires more time the higher one climbs and over exertions happens before you would normally expect it to happen and will set one up for AMS.......coming from 300ft and going up to 10,000 is enough elevation gain for one to begin the symptoms of AMS, and others to get HACE or HAPE if not acclimatized. The rule of thumb is to climb high ( 1000- 3000 ft if you want) and sleep low. That means try not to sleep more than 2000 ft ,  above your last night sleep, give or take a few 1000 ft. depending upon what elevation you last slept.  For me, I generally don't feel anything before 10,000 ft. but I have lived at 4000ft or above for the last 10 years...Currently I live at 6200ft. I have seen people who traveled from San Francisco up to Tahoe, driving over an almost 8000 ft summit and get AMS.   Coming from 300 ft with a 30 lb pack will require most people to acclimate at least a night for every 2000--3000 ft gain above 5000ft or so.......of course this is not black and white....you must know your limits and listen to your body. Familiarize yourself with the signs and symptoms of AMS and pay attention......if you experience any AMS symptoms, you can descend until all symptoms have resolved and then ascend again slowly and stay hydrated........FYI, I am an NP who works in the ED, has taken many wilderness medicine courses and has been a member on many search and rescue teams.
            Hope this helps. Have fun!!!!
            Ciao,
            T

            On 7/20/2013 6:36 AM, whcobbs wrote:
             



            To all who responded,
            This a lot of good stuff! Water availability, campsites, altitude management. I thing the crucial point for me is to sleep at altitude the night before hitting the trail. Thanks for all the help,
            Walt

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <pklein95014@...> wrote:
            >
            > I saw Bob's response. I believe he's confusing Virgina Lakes where
            > you want to enter, with Virginia Lake down near Mammoth.
            >
            > Northeast Yosemite is really different and quite beautiful. I've gone
            > in thru both Va Lakes and Twin Lakes. How long do you intend to take to get to T Mdws? Your mileage/day will depend on time available, of course.
            >
            > Pete
            >
            >
            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "whcobbs" <walter.cobbs@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > I'm in condition for backpacking AT and such, 30 lb pack, living at 300 ft elevation near Philadelphia. I'm permitted for Hoover Wilderness/Virginia Lakes trailhead, via PCT to JMT near Tuolumne Meadows and south to Whitney.
            > > Seeking advice re Virginia Lakes to Tuolumne segment, pace and campsites.
            > >
            > > Walt
            > >
            >


          • whcobbs
            Theresa, I was indeed looking for some altitude advice. Last time in the region, I backpacked up from the Yosemite Valley floor to Tuolumne and experienced
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 20, 2013
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              Theresa,
              I was indeed looking for some altitude advice. Last time in the region, I backpacked up from the Yosemite Valley floor to Tuolumne and experienced nothing worse than a headache that night. That was in 1971, just before a medical internship. We both know the difficulties of compromised individuals attempting to manage solo a condition which may compromise judgment.
              I will take some Diamox tabs along, but would rather not need them. A night at near 10K feet before the trail, a daytime climb to 11K, then a descent to overnight at 9500 ft or below seems a doable plan.
              Thanks,
              Walt (Neurology)

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Theresa Gilliland <Theresa@...> wrote:
              >
              > HI Walt,
              > As noted before, my husband and I will be doing the JMT
              > 8/7-8/23ish....being experienced mountaineers, we know it is imperative
              > for one to be acclimated. Getting AMS, HACE or HAPE will be a show
              > stopper for you. Recovering from exertion requires more time the higher
              > one climbs and over exertions happens before you would normally expect
              > it to happen and will set one up for AMS.......coming from 300ft and
              > going up to 10,000 is enough elevation gain for one to begin the
              > symptoms of AMS, and others to get HACE or HAPE if not acclimatized. The
              > rule of thumb is to climb high ( 1000- 3000 ft if you want) and sleep
              > low. That means try not to sleep more than 2000 ft , above your last
              > night sleep, give or take a few 1000 ft. depending upon what elevation
              > you last slept. For me, I generally don't feel anything before 10,000
              > ft. but I have lived at 4000ft or above for the last 10
              > years...Currently I live at 6200ft. I have seen people who traveled from
              > San Francisco up to Tahoe, driving over an almost 8000 ft summit and get
              > AMS. Coming from 300 ft with a 30 lb pack will require most people to
              > acclimate at least a night for every 2000--3000 ft gain above 5000ft or
              > so.......of course this is not black and white....you must know your
              > limits and listen to your body. Familiarize yourself with the signs and
              > symptoms of AMS and pay attention......if you experience any AMS
              > symptoms, you can descend until all symptoms have resolved and then
              > ascend again slowly and stay hydrated........FYI, I am an NP who works
              > in the ED, has taken many wilderness medicine courses and has been a
              > member on many search and rescue teams.
              > Hope this helps. Have fun!!!!
              > Ciao,
              > T
              >
              > On 7/20/2013 6:36 AM, whcobbs wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > To all who responded,
              > > This a lot of good stuff! Water availability, campsites, altitude
              > > management. I thing the crucial point for me is to sleep at altitude
              > > the night before hitting the trail. Thanks for all the help,
              > > Walt
              > >
              > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com>, "Pete" <pklein95014@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I saw Bob's response. I believe he's confusing Virgina Lakes where
              > > > you want to enter, with Virginia Lake down near Mammoth.
              > > >
              > > > Northeast Yosemite is really different and quite beautiful. I've gone
              > > > in thru both Va Lakes and Twin Lakes. How long do you intend to take
              > > to get to T Mdws? Your mileage/day will depend on time available, of
              > > course.
              > > >
              > > > Pete
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com>, "whcobbs" <walter.cobbs@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > I'm in condition for backpacking AT and such, 30 lb pack, living
              > > at 300 ft elevation near Philadelphia. I'm permitted for Hoover
              > > Wilderness/Virginia Lakes trailhead, via PCT to JMT near Tuolumne
              > > Meadows and south to Whitney.
              > > > > Seeking advice re Virginia Lakes to Tuolumne segment, pace and
              > > campsites.
              > > > >
              > > > > Walt
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Theresa Gilliland
              Hi Walt, Sounds like a good plan. What is the elevation at your trail head? it looks like about 4000ft or not having a contour map in front of me:):):)....I
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 21, 2013
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                Hi Walt,
                Sounds like a good plan. What is the elevation at your trail head?   it looks like about 4000ft or not having a contour map in front of me:):):)....I did bring Diamox with me to all the climbs that I knew I was going above 14,000ft. Never needed it on Whitney. Which I have rocked climbed the East Buttress 3 times and hiked once. I buy into the school of thought, If I need great, but still plan to descend and hang for a day or two should the AMS start, and I know that I am condition to do the climb.....I know some take it prophetically, which if they are not in condition to do the climb, they may go beyond that point and not have a back up if the AMS starts....When my brother, my husband and I climbed Cotopaxi ( 19,347ft) in Ecuador, Gary (my brother) experienced symptoms at 15,000ft. HA, with nausea, insomina and no appetite.  I encouraged him to take the diamox. I took some also just to see how I would respond and wanting to know before I need it how it would make me feel. Being a "mild diuretic" for me was an understatement. Every 12 minutes for one hour, I had to answer the call of nature :):):)...I never did get the tingling in the fingers. Gary felt great for the summit climb which we started about 6 hours later....I did Imja Tse in Nepal, 20,305 ft and did not need any diamox. Experienced a pre "bonkng" moment at 19,600ft.....that was way weird....
                ciao,
                T

                n 7/20/2013 12:59 PM, whcobbs wrote:
                 



                Theresa,
                I was indeed looking for some altitude advice. Last time in the region, I backpacked up from the Yosemite Valley floor to Tuolumne and experienced nothing worse than a headache that night. That was in 1971, just before a medical internship. We both know the difficulties of compromised individuals attempting to manage solo a condition which may compromise judgment.
                I will take some Diamox tabs along, but would rather not need them. A night at near 10K feet before the trail, a daytime climb to 11K, then a descent to overnight at 9500 ft or below seems a doable plan.
                Thanks,
                Walt (Neurology)

                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Theresa Gilliland <Theresa@...> wrote:
                >
                > HI Walt,
                > As noted before, my husband and I will be doing the JMT
                > 8/7-8/23ish....being experienced mountaineers, we know it is imperative
                > for one to be acclimated. Getting AMS, HACE or HAPE will be a show
                > stopper for you. Recovering from exertion requires more time the higher
                > one climbs and over exertions happens before you would normally expect
                > it to happen and will set one up for AMS.......coming from 300ft and
                > going up to 10,000 is enough elevation gain for one to begin the
                > symptoms of AMS, and others to get HACE or HAPE if not acclimatized. The
                > rule of thumb is to climb high ( 1000- 3000 ft if you want) and sleep
                > low. That means try not to sleep more than 2000 ft , above your last
                > night sleep, give or take a few 1000 ft. depending upon what elevation
                > you last slept. For me, I generally don't feel anything before 10,000
                > ft. but I have lived at 4000ft or above for the last 10
                > years...Currently I live at 6200ft. I have seen people who traveled from
                > San Francisco up to Tahoe, driving over an almost 8000 ft summit and get
                > AMS. Coming from 300 ft with a 30 lb pack will require most people to
                > acclimate at least a night for every 2000--3000 ft gain above 5000ft or
                > so.......of course this is not black and white....you must know your
                > limits and listen to your body. Familiarize yourself with the signs and
                > symptoms of AMS and pay attention......if you experience any AMS
                > symptoms, you can descend until all symptoms have resolved and then
                > ascend again slowly and stay hydrated........FYI, I am an NP who works
                > in the ED, has taken many wilderness medicine courses and has been a
                > member on many search and rescue teams.
                > Hope this helps. Have fun!!!!
                > Ciao,
                > T
                >
                > On 7/20/2013 6:36 AM, whcobbs wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > To all who responded,
                > > This a lot of good stuff! Water availability, campsites, altitude
                > > management. I thing the crucial point for me is to sleep at altitude
                > > the night before hitting the trail. Thanks for all the help,
                > > Walt
                > >
                > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com>, "Pete" <pklein95014@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I saw Bob's response. I believe he's confusing Virgina Lakes where
                > > > you want to enter, with Virginia Lake down near Mammoth.
                > > >
                > > > Northeast Yosemite is really different and quite beautiful. I've gone
                > > > in thru both Va Lakes and Twin Lakes. How long do you intend to take
                > > to get to T Mdws? Your mileage/day will depend on time available, of
                > > course.
                > > >
                > > > Pete
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com>, "whcobbs" <walter.cobbs@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > I'm in condition for backpacking AT and such, 30 lb pack, living
                > > at 300 ft elevation near Philadelphia. I'm permitted for Hoover
                > > Wilderness/Virginia Lakes trailhead, via PCT to JMT near Tuolumne
                > > Meadows and south to Whitney.
                > > > > Seeking advice re Virginia Lakes to Tuolumne segment, pace and
                > > campsites.
                > > > >
                > > > > Walt
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >


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