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[John Muir Trail] Re: Cumulative Elevation gain Hi to Whitney

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  • longritchie
    Okay, now I see. I checked the box that hides both my email AND my IP address. I was in a suspicious mood when I checked that. Why do they need my IP address,
    Message 1 of 32 , Jul 10, 2013
      Okay, now I see. I checked the box that hides both my email AND my IP address. I was in a suspicious mood when I checked that. Why do they need my IP address, I wondered? It doesn't appear that I can chose one or the other, it's got to be neither or both. So I went with neither.

      But feel free to email me: longritchie AT yahoo DOT com


      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
      >
      > Your postings, come across like this:
      > longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      >
      > It means you asked Yahoo not to display your email address. It's fine, it
      > just means people can't contact you individually, even moderators.
      >
      > I'm replying via the group even though you spelled out your email address
      > so that others understand the same implication of making that
      > choice.
      >
      > Elizabeth Wenks created the XLS except for the advertisement page which she
      > asked me to do to please the publisher and get their permission.
      >
      > She created the other two spreadsheet tabs in that file.
      > -------------------------------------------------
      > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
      > links)<https://plus.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
      > _
      >
      >
      >
      > On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:14 PM, longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > "Longritchie, you make it impossible for people to reach you offline
      > > since your handle is not associated with an email address."
      > >
      > > How did I make this impossible?
      > >
      > > I'm new to this group. I signed up with a yahoo email: longritchie AT
      > > yahoo DOT com.
      > > What else was I supposed to do exactly?
      > >
      > > I checked the "_Elizabeth Wenk Master Spreadsheet for JMT.xls" file
      > > which I obtained from the JMT Yahoo files section and found that she did
      > > have an errata regarding the location of Island Pass. But on the "Data"
      > > page in the spreadsheet there are in fact two seperate entries for
      > > Island Pass. And that is where Ravi got his data. His value of 42,773
      > > feet total gain from Yosemite to Whitney, based on Wenk's data, should
      > > be reduced by 165 feet to 42,608 feet. Yeah, I know, big deal.
      > >
      > > I can send an email to Ms. Wenk if it was in fact her hand that created
      > > the XLS file. Was it?
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Longritchie, you make it impossible for people to reach you offline
      > > since
      > > > your handle is not associated with an email address. I wanted to
      > > reply
      > > > offline that Elizabeth provides contact information for error
      > > corrections
      > > > in that spreadsheet listed below:
      > > >
      > > > When you post the spreadsheet and errata to the websites, you can go
      > > ahead
      > > >
      > > > and give the following e-mail address for me, asking people to
      > > contact me
      > > > only with errors
      > > >
      > > > they have found or information they'd like included in future
      > > editions:
      > > >
      > > > wenk [dot] jmtbook [at] gmail [dot] com.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -------------------------------------------------
      > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
      > > > links)
      > > > _
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 7:04 PM, Roleigh Martin roleigh@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > Did you look at the errata page Elizabeth Wenk provided us in the
      > > master
      > > > > spreadsheet in our file library?
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/files/Planning%20and%20Trans\
      > > portation/_Wilderness%20Press%20and%20Other%20Data%20Points/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/files/Planning%20and%20Transportation/_Wilderness%20Press%20and%20Other%20Data%20Points/>
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > > _Elizabeth Wenk Master Spreadsheet for JMT.xls
      > > > >
      > > > > If she did not correct the error, I can send you her email address,
      > > I'm
      > > > > sure she'd like to update the errata page. I'll do this offline but
      > > I
      > > > > might not be able to do it immediately as I'm leaving for my JMT
      > > hike
      > > > > tomorrow (at least the fly to CA part).
      > > > > -----------------------------------------------
      > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
      > > > > _
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM, longritchie
      > > no_reply@...:
      > > > >
      > > > >> **
      > >
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >> I borrowed an altimeter watch and walked the first 50 miles of the
      > > JMT.
      > > > >> Here is the reported altimeter elevation compared to the Wenk data:
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >> (http://imageshack.us/a/img29/5526/0ojq.jpg)
      > > > >>
      > > > >> I set the elevation at Happy Isles and then set it again at
      > > Tuolumne. The
      > > > >> altimeter read low between Yosemite Valley and Tuolumne. I suspect
      > > that
      > > > >> this was due to the fact that it was a very hot day. High
      > > temperature means
      > > > >> lower aid density which results in a smaller change in pressure per
      > > change
      > > > >> in elevation. Although the pressure sensor in the altimeter is
      > > temperature
      > > > >> compensated I don't think the firmware attempts to adjust its model
      > > of the
      > > > >> atmosphere based on the ambient temperature. One of the pitfalls of
      > > > >> barometric altimetry.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Beyond Tuolumne the altimeter tracked the map elevation reasonably
      > > well,
      > > > >> both on the way out and on the return trip. When returning to the
      > > > >> sweltering hell that is Yosemite the altimeter again under-reported
      > > the
      > > > >> elevation change.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Here is the cumulative gain reported by the altimeter, compared to
      > > the
      > > > >> Wenk data:
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >> (http://imageshack.us/a/img198/967/wz5d.jpg)
      > > > >>
      > > > >> The altimeter matched the Wenk data between Yosemite and Tuolumne
      > > despite
      > > > >> reporting about 6% less net elevation change. Beyond Tuolumne the
      > > agreement
      > > > >> is again fairly good until around mile 43 when they diverge. This
      > > is
      > > > >> because of insufficient Wenk data points between 1000 Island Lake
      > > and
      > > > >> Garnet Lake. The Wenk/Ravi calculation is for a total gain of 70
      > > feet here.
      > > > >> The altimeter reported 390 feet (both heading out and on the return
      > > trip).
      > > > >> A trace in TOPO! suggests 330 feet.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> By the way, I also came across an error in the original Wenk data.
      > > She
      > > > >> somehow inserted a second copy of "Island Pass" at the same mile
      > > point as
      > > > >> Donahue Pass. Ravi carried this error over to his spreadsheet
      > > resulting in
      > > > >> an additional 165 feet of gain where there is actually little or
      > > none.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> The cumulative gain determined by the altimeter was about 5%
      > > greater than
      > > > >> that from Wenk. If one were to attempt to compensate for the
      > > > >> under-reporting of elevation change between YV and TM the
      > > difference would
      > > > >> be something like 8-10%, but this is assuming that the altimeter
      > > was
      > > > >> otherwise accurate in determining cumulative gain. I do not know
      > > the
      > > > >> details of its accumulation algorithm.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> For what it's worth.
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • longritchie
      Okay, now I see. I checked the box that hides both my email AND my IP address. I was in a suspicious mood when I checked that. Why do they need my IP address,
      Message 32 of 32 , Jul 10, 2013
        Okay, now I see. I checked the box that hides both my email AND my IP address. I was in a suspicious mood when I checked that. Why do they need my IP address, I wondered? It doesn't appear that I can chose one or the other, it's got to be neither or both. So I went with neither.

        But feel free to email me: longritchie AT yahoo DOT com


        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
        >
        > Your postings, come across like this:
        > longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
        >
        > It means you asked Yahoo not to display your email address. It's fine, it
        > just means people can't contact you individually, even moderators.
        >
        > I'm replying via the group even though you spelled out your email address
        > so that others understand the same implication of making that
        > choice.
        >
        > Elizabeth Wenks created the XLS except for the advertisement page which she
        > asked me to do to please the publisher and get their permission.
        >
        > She created the other two spreadsheet tabs in that file.
        > -------------------------------------------------
        > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
        > links)<https://plus.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
        > _
        >
        >
        >
        > On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:14 PM, longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > "Longritchie, you make it impossible for people to reach you offline
        > > since your handle is not associated with an email address."
        > >
        > > How did I make this impossible?
        > >
        > > I'm new to this group. I signed up with a yahoo email: longritchie AT
        > > yahoo DOT com.
        > > What else was I supposed to do exactly?
        > >
        > > I checked the "_Elizabeth Wenk Master Spreadsheet for JMT.xls" file
        > > which I obtained from the JMT Yahoo files section and found that she did
        > > have an errata regarding the location of Island Pass. But on the "Data"
        > > page in the spreadsheet there are in fact two seperate entries for
        > > Island Pass. And that is where Ravi got his data. His value of 42,773
        > > feet total gain from Yosemite to Whitney, based on Wenk's data, should
        > > be reduced by 165 feet to 42,608 feet. Yeah, I know, big deal.
        > >
        > > I can send an email to Ms. Wenk if it was in fact her hand that created
        > > the XLS file. Was it?
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Longritchie, you make it impossible for people to reach you offline
        > > since
        > > > your handle is not associated with an email address. I wanted to
        > > reply
        > > > offline that Elizabeth provides contact information for error
        > > corrections
        > > > in that spreadsheet listed below:
        > > >
        > > > When you post the spreadsheet and errata to the websites, you can go
        > > ahead
        > > >
        > > > and give the following e-mail address for me, asking people to
        > > contact me
        > > > only with errors
        > > >
        > > > they have found or information they'd like included in future
        > > editions:
        > > >
        > > > wenk [dot] jmtbook [at] gmail [dot] com.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > -------------------------------------------------
        > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
        > > > links)
        > > > _
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 7:04 PM, Roleigh Martin roleigh@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > Did you look at the errata page Elizabeth Wenk provided us in the
        > > master
        > > > > spreadsheet in our file library?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/files/Planning%20and%20Trans\
        > > portation/_Wilderness%20Press%20and%20Other%20Data%20Points/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/files/Planning%20and%20Transportation/_Wilderness%20Press%20and%20Other%20Data%20Points/>
        > >
        > > > >
        > > > > _Elizabeth Wenk Master Spreadsheet for JMT.xls
        > > > >
        > > > > If she did not correct the error, I can send you her email address,
        > > I'm
        > > > > sure she'd like to update the errata page. I'll do this offline but
        > > I
        > > > > might not be able to do it immediately as I'm leaving for my JMT
        > > hike
        > > > > tomorrow (at least the fly to CA part).
        > > > > -----------------------------------------------
        > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
        > > > > _
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM, longritchie
        > > no_reply@...:
        > > > >
        > > > >> **
        > >
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >> I borrowed an altimeter watch and walked the first 50 miles of the
        > > JMT.
        > > > >> Here is the reported altimeter elevation compared to the Wenk data:
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >> (http://imageshack.us/a/img29/5526/0ojq.jpg)
        > > > >>
        > > > >> I set the elevation at Happy Isles and then set it again at
        > > Tuolumne. The
        > > > >> altimeter read low between Yosemite Valley and Tuolumne. I suspect
        > > that
        > > > >> this was due to the fact that it was a very hot day. High
        > > temperature means
        > > > >> lower aid density which results in a smaller change in pressure per
        > > change
        > > > >> in elevation. Although the pressure sensor in the altimeter is
        > > temperature
        > > > >> compensated I don't think the firmware attempts to adjust its model
        > > of the
        > > > >> atmosphere based on the ambient temperature. One of the pitfalls of
        > > > >> barometric altimetry.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> Beyond Tuolumne the altimeter tracked the map elevation reasonably
        > > well,
        > > > >> both on the way out and on the return trip. When returning to the
        > > > >> sweltering hell that is Yosemite the altimeter again under-reported
        > > the
        > > > >> elevation change.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> Here is the cumulative gain reported by the altimeter, compared to
        > > the
        > > > >> Wenk data:
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >> (http://imageshack.us/a/img198/967/wz5d.jpg)
        > > > >>
        > > > >> The altimeter matched the Wenk data between Yosemite and Tuolumne
        > > despite
        > > > >> reporting about 6% less net elevation change. Beyond Tuolumne the
        > > agreement
        > > > >> is again fairly good until around mile 43 when they diverge. This
        > > is
        > > > >> because of insufficient Wenk data points between 1000 Island Lake
        > > and
        > > > >> Garnet Lake. The Wenk/Ravi calculation is for a total gain of 70
        > > feet here.
        > > > >> The altimeter reported 390 feet (both heading out and on the return
        > > trip).
        > > > >> A trace in TOPO! suggests 330 feet.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> By the way, I also came across an error in the original Wenk data.
        > > She
        > > > >> somehow inserted a second copy of "Island Pass" at the same mile
        > > point as
        > > > >> Donahue Pass. Ravi carried this error over to his spreadsheet
        > > resulting in
        > > > >> an additional 165 feet of gain where there is actually little or
        > > none.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> The cumulative gain determined by the altimeter was about 5%
        > > greater than
        > > > >> that from Wenk. If one were to attempt to compensate for the
        > > > >> under-reporting of elevation change between YV and TM the
        > > difference would
        > > > >> be something like 8-10%, but this is assuming that the altimeter
        > > was
        > > > >> otherwise accurate in determining cumulative gain. I do not know
        > > the
        > > > >> details of its accumulation algorithm.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> For what it's worth.
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
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