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Re: [John Muir Trail] Lightweight 1L container for Steripen purification?

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  • Roleigh Martin
    Attached is a Steripen support sanctioned study on containers that can be used for a Steripen. Are you using a cooking pot? This is the support staffer s
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 9 2:33 PM
    Attached is a Steripen support sanctioned study on containers that can be used for a Steripen.  Are you using a cooking pot?  This is the support staffer's response to my queries in 2009 -- I was a beta tester for Steripen.  the link given is dead -- see attached for the study.

    Container Question:

    There is no problem using the SteriPEN in containers other than the Nalgene bottle. The cook-pot described is a perfectly acceptable alternative to the bottle.

    We have actually tested the SteriPEN in a cook-pot http://www.steripen.com/PDF/container_shape_study.pdf. Page 6 has a picture for your reference.

    Yes, you can definitely paste my response in the blog. Thanks for asking.




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    On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:54 PM, john_friend <yahoo@...> wrote:
     

    I'm headed SOBO on the JMT in 4 days and just working on optimizing a few things at the last minute.

    We use a Steripen for purification and my standard operating procedure has always been to just carry a 1L Nalgene that was dedicated for doing the purification in.  Dip in the river, zap it with UV with the Steripen and then pour the water into other containers.

    Now, with my weight consciousness on high alert, I see that the Nalgene is 6.3 oz and all it's being used for is a temporary place to UV zap the water.  It never holds any water in the pack.  It needs to be widemouth to allow the Steripen to get inside, needs to be not too tall (so the UV can more easily reach everything) needs to be approx 1L in volume and needs to survive three weeks on the trail, but that's about it.

    Has anyone found a lighter weight alternative?  Anyone tried something like this 32oz gatorade container?  I wonder if the Steripen would fit in the mouth?


    Any other ideas?


  • Ralph Alcorn
    ... However, if I took the Steripen I considered the soft sided Nalgene 1L widemouth. Any softsided, including the Sawyer Squeeze filter is a nuisance, because
    Message 2 of 17 , Jul 9 2:44 PM
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      I debated the same issue, and came up with  several options. My eventual decision was to just take the Sawyer Squeeze filter and Micropur tablets for backup.

      However, if I took the Steripen I considered the soft sided Nalgene 1L  widemouth. Any softsided, including the Sawyer Squeeze filter is a nuisance, because you need to carry something to fill it, i.e. bottom half of a 12oz plastic Coke bottle.

      We also in the past have carried a 1 qt Yogurt container with a lid, as a pee bottle. We then switched to a 4 cup Ziploc Twist N Loc container for the same purpose. It weighs 2oz, the yogurt container even less. Either of those would be fine for the Steripen, though I would try and avoid multiuse.



      --
      Ralph Alcorn
      backpack45.comtimecheck00.blogspot.com
      Shepherd Canyon books, Publisher of: Patagonia Chronicle: On Foot in Torres del Paine, Camino Chronicle: Walking to Santiago, We're in the Mountains, Not Over the Hill: Tales and Tips from Seasoned Women Backpackers  - all available on Kindle


    • Roleigh Martin
      A very good thread to read is this one on alternate steripen containers:
      Message 3 of 17 , Jul 9 2:49 PM
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        A very good thread to read is this one on alternate steripen containers:


        The 2.9 oz container I show however is not as durable as a Nalgene bottle and last year it cracked on the JMT, and I used spare cash to buy a Nalgene bottle on the trail.

        A Nalgene HDPE 1 qt bottle is lighter than the weight quoted in this thread.  It is 4.05 oz versus the shiny hard plastic Nalgene which is 6.4 oz.  This year, I'm bringing the 4.05 oz HDPE Plastic Nalgene bottle as I want it to last the entire hike.


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      • Barbara Karagosian
        I ve used a soft sided Nalgene bottle. Holds a bit more than 1L. Weighs about 3ozs, approx. probably better alternatives!
        Message 4 of 17 , Jul 9 3:19 PM
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          I've used a soft sided Nalgene bottle. Holds a bit more than 1L.  Weighs about 3ozs, approx. probably better alternatives!



          On Jul 9, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "john_friend" <yahoo@...> wrote:

           

          I'm headed SOBO on the JMT in 4 days and just working on optimizing a few things at the last minute.

          We use a Steripen for purification and my standard operating procedure has always been to just carry a 1L Nalgene that was dedicated for doing the purification in.  Dip in the river, zap it with UV with the Steripen and then pour the water into other containers.

          Now, with my weight consciousness on high alert, I see that the Nalgene is 6.3 oz and all it's being used for is a temporary place to UV zap the water.  It never holds any water in the pack.  It needs to be widemouth to allow the Steripen to get inside, needs to be not too tall (so the UV can more easily reach everything) needs to be approx 1L in volume and needs to survive three weeks on the trail, but that's about it.

          Has anyone found a lighter weight alternative?  Anyone tried something like this 32oz gatorade container?  I wonder if the Steripen would fit in the mouth?


          Any other ideas?

        • shawn peterson
          Power ade bottles ________________________________ From: Barbara Karagosian To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
          Message 5 of 17 , Jul 9 3:34 PM
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            Power ade bottles



            From: Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...>
            To: "johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 3:19 PM
            Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Lightweight 1L container for Steripen purification?

             
            I've used a soft sided Nalgene bottle. Holds a bit more than 1L.  Weighs about 3ozs, approx. probably better alternatives!



            On Jul 9, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "john_friend" <yahoo@...> wrote:

             
            I'm headed SOBO on the JMT in 4 days and just working on optimizing a few things at the last minute.

            We use a Steripen for purification and my standard operating procedure has always been to just carry a 1L Nalgene that was dedicated for doing the purification in.  Dip in the river, zap it with UV with the Steripen and then pour the water into other containers.

            Now, with my weight consciousness on high alert, I see that the Nalgene is 6.3 oz and all it's being used for is a temporary place to UV zap the water.  It never holds any water in the pack.  It needs to be widemouth to allow the Steripen to get inside, needs to be not too tall (so the UV can more easily reach everything) needs to be approx 1L in volume and needs to survive three weeks on the trail, but that's about it.

            Has anyone found a lighter weight alternative?  Anyone tried something like this 32oz gatorade container?  I wonder if the Steripen would fit in the mouth?


            Any other ideas?


          • john_friend
            Lot s of great help so far (as usual). My first realization is that I have the wrong Nalgene. If I was going to go with a hard sided Nalgene, I should have
            Message 6 of 17 , Jul 9 3:58 PM
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              Lot's of great help so far (as usual).  My first realization is that I have the wrong Nalgene.  If I was going to go with a hard sided Nalgene, I should have the HDPE  one: http://www.rei.com/product/402049/nalgene-wide-mouth-loop-top-round-bottle-32-fl-oz which is only 3.5oz (all local REI stores are out of stock).  Nalgene makes one of these with an even lighter lid (no retainer on the lid) so that would be an even lighter option.  Not sure where I can get either one of these locally in the next couple days.

              Using the cooking pot is an intriguing idea.  Will have to think about that one.  Would definitely save some weight.  We are only boiling water in our cooking pot too so it will always be clean.  The only main downside I can of for the cookpot is that it would make a lousy scoop in a shallow water source (you'd have to fill it with something else).

              For some reason, I didn't like the idea of using the collapsible Nalgene for this (I had considered that before).  It seems too tall and not as convenient to fill or sit on the ground while doing the UV, but I see in the backpackinglight thread that Steripen says that it is OK.  May have to think again about that option as it is only 2oz.





              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin wrote:
              >
              > A very good thread to read is this one on alternate steripen containers:
              >
              > http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=19105
              >
              > The 2.9 oz container I show however is not as durable as a Nalgene bottle
              > and last year it cracked on the JMT, and I used spare cash to buy a Nalgene
              > bottle on the trail.
              >
              > A Nalgene HDPE 1 qt bottle is lighter than the weight quoted in this
              > thread. It is 4.05 oz versus the shiny hard plastic Nalgene which is 6.4
              > oz. This year, I'm bringing the 4.05 oz HDPE Plastic Nalgene bottle as I
              > want it to last the entire hike.
              >
              >
              > -------------------------------------------------
              > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
              > links)
              > _
              >
            • dave.thofern
              I use a one-liter Ziploc food storage container. Not a bag but a light plastic container with a scew top. The Steripen Adventurer, without the case, fits well
              Message 7 of 17 , Jul 9 4:55 PM
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                I use a one-liter Ziploc food storage container. Not a bag but a light plastic container with a scew top. The Steripen Adventurer, without the case, fits well in it.

                Dave

                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "john_friend" <yahoo@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'm headed SOBO on the JMT in 4 days and just working on optimizing a
                > few things at the last minute.
                > We use a Steripen for purification and my standard operating procedure
                > has always been to just carry a 1L Nalgene that was dedicated for doing
                > the purification in. Dip in the river, zap it with UV with the Steripen
                > and then pour the water into other containers.
                > Now, with my weight consciousness on high alert, I see that the Nalgene
                > is 6.3 oz and all it's being used for is a temporary place to UV zap the
                > water. It never holds any water in the pack. It needs to be widemouth
                > to allow the Steripen to get inside, needs to be not too tall (so the UV
                > can more easily reach everything) needs to be approx 1L in volume and
                > needs to survive three weeks on the trail, but that's about it.
                > Has anyone found a lighter weight alternative? Anyone tried something
                > like this 32oz gatorade container? I wonder if the Steripen would fit
                > in the mouth?
                >
                > Any other ideas?
                >
              • Roleigh Martin
                I used to use the same, but last year it cracked so bad on the trail I had to toss it. Steripen support says though the Steripen will work with that
                Message 8 of 17 , Jul 9 5:00 PM
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                  I used to use the same, but last year it cracked so bad on the trail I had to toss it.  Steripen support says though the Steripen will work with that container, I specifically asked about it on another time.  That plastic degrades over time because of Ultraviolet light too.  It degrades faster due to use in a pack though.

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                  _



                  On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 7:55 PM, dave.thofern <dthofern@...> wrote:
                   

                  I use a one-liter Ziploc food storage container. Not a bag but a light plastic container with a scew top. The Steripen Adventurer, without the case, fits well in it.

                  Dave



                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "john_friend" <yahoo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm headed SOBO on the JMT in 4 days and just working on optimizing a
                  > few things at the last minute.
                  > We use a Steripen for purification and my standard operating procedure
                  > has always been to just carry a 1L Nalgene that was dedicated for doing
                  > the purification in. Dip in the river, zap it with UV with the Steripen
                  > and then pour the water into other containers.
                  > Now, with my weight consciousness on high alert, I see that the Nalgene
                  > is 6.3 oz and all it's being used for is a temporary place to UV zap the
                  > water. It never holds any water in the pack. It needs to be widemouth
                  > to allow the Steripen to get inside, needs to be not too tall (so the UV
                  > can more easily reach everything) needs to be approx 1L in volume and
                  > needs to survive three weeks on the trail, but that's about it.
                  > Has anyone found a lighter weight alternative? Anyone tried something
                  > like this 32oz gatorade container? I wonder if the Steripen would fit
                  > in the mouth?
                  >
                  > Any other ideas?
                  >


                • Tim Habiger
                  The Pot (lol) study was very helpful!  I ve used the softside Nalgene containers but they are a pain to swirl the Steripen in.  The pot will be much easier.
                  Message 9 of 17 , Jul 9 5:23 PM
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                    The Pot (lol) study was very helpful!  I've used the softside Nalgene containers but they are a pain to swirl the Steripen in.  The pot will be much easier.  Simple ideas make me smile!
                  • Roleigh Martin
                    John, I have the HDPE Nalgene container, maybe a newer one is lighter, but the one I have, measured on a very precise expensive postal scale, is 4.05 oz. ...
                    Message 10 of 17 , Jul 9 5:41 PM
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                      John, I have the HDPE Nalgene container, maybe a newer one is lighter, but the one I have, measured on a very precise expensive postal scale, is 4.05 oz.
                      -------------------------------------------------
                      Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                      _



                      On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 6:58 PM, john_friend <yahoo@...> wrote:
                       

                      Lot's of great help so far (as usual).  My first realization is that I have the wrong Nalgene.  If I was going to go with a hard sided Nalgene, I should have the HDPE  one: http://www.rei.com/product/402049/nalgene-wide-mouth-loop-top-round-bottle-32-fl-oz which is only 3.5oz (all local REI stores are out of stock).  Nalgene makes one of these with an even lighter lid (no retainer on the lid) so that would be an even lighter option.  Not sure where I can get either one of these locally in the next couple days.


                      Using the cooking pot is an intriguing idea.  Will have to think about that one.  Would definitely save some weight.  We are only boiling water in our cooking pot too so it will always be clean.  The only main downside I can of for the cookpot is that it would make a lousy scoop in a shallow water source (you'd have to fill it with something else).

                      For some reason, I didn't like the idea of using the collapsible Nalgene for this (I had considered that before).  It seems too tall and not as convenient to fill or sit on the ground while doing the UV, but I see in the backpackinglight thread that Steripen says that it is OK.  May have to think again about that option as it is only 2oz.





                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin wrote:
                      >
                      > A very good thread to read is this one on alternate steripen containers:
                      >
                      > http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=19105
                      >
                      > The 2.9 oz container I show however is not as durable as a Nalgene bottle
                      > and last year it cracked on the JMT, and I used spare cash to buy a Nalgene
                      > bottle on the trail.
                      >
                      > A Nalgene HDPE 1 qt bottle is lighter than the weight quoted in this
                      > thread. It is 4.05 oz versus the shiny hard plastic Nalgene which is 6.4
                      > oz. This year, I'm bringing the 4.05 oz HDPE Plastic Nalgene bottle as I
                      > want it to last the entire hike.
                      >
                      >
                      > -------------------------------------------------
                      > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                      > links)
                      > _
                      >


                    • Dan Spiess
                      I ve been using a quart mayonnaise jar for the past several years. It is one of my drinking bottles along with a quart Gatorade bottle. A good excuse to
                      Message 11 of 17 , Jul 9 6:34 PM
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                        I’ve been using a quart mayonnaise jar for the past several years.  It is one of my drinking “bottles” along with a quart Gatorade bottle.  A good excuse to enjoy mayo too.

                         

                         

                        From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dave.thofern
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 4:56 PM
                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Lightweight 1L container for Steripen purification?

                         

                         

                        I use a one-liter Ziploc food storage container. Not a bag but a light plastic container with a scew top. The Steripen Adventurer, without the case, fits well in it.

                        Dave

                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "john_friend" <yahoo@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I'm headed SOBO on the JMT in 4 days and just working on optimizing a
                        > few things at the last minute.
                        > We use a Steripen for purification and my standard operating procedure
                        > has always been to just carry a 1L Nalgene that was dedicated for doing
                        > the purification in. Dip in the river, zap it with UV with the Steripen
                        > and then pour the water into other containers.
                        > Now, with my weight consciousness on high alert, I see that the Nalgene
                        > is 6.3 oz and all it's being used for is a temporary place to UV zap the
                        > water. It never holds any water in the pack. It needs to be widemouth
                        > to allow the Steripen to get inside, needs to be not too tall (so the UV
                        > can more easily reach everything) needs to be approx 1L in volume and
                        > needs to survive three weeks on the trail, but that's about it.
                        > Has anyone found a lighter weight alternative? Anyone tried something
                        > like this 32oz gatorade container? I wonder if the Steripen would fit
                        > in the mouth?
                        >
                        > Any other ideas?
                        >

                      • Joey Lynn
                        I know there is a disclaimer about Roleigh s link to studys on alternative containers being broken, but I can t even find any attached file that is claimed to
                        Message 12 of 17 , Jul 9 6:40 PM
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                          I know there is a disclaimer about Roleigh's link to studys on alternative containers being broken, but I can't even find any attached file that is claimed to be attached...

                          ...with that being said, I have a SteriPen Journey which has some design differences from others but I've used this on a standard smallmouth 1L water bottle with success to the degree that the SteriPen completes the cycle. Wether or not this is 100% effective at neutralizing microbes (???), but the SteriPen website claims on their "misconceptions" page

                          http://www.steripen.com/steripen-misconceptions/

                          that this model along with a couple others can be used in the fashion of treating standard 'bottled water' bottles, which doesn't specify anything about widemouths. Being the fact that there is a rubber "stopper" like fitting just above the bullb/sensor assembly on the Journey model, it allows you to put the SteriPen in a wider (sorry, slimmer) variety of bottles. As long as you keep just enough headspace in the container you decide to use, hold just enough pressure to keep the SteriPen in the bottle acting like a cork or stopper while holding it upside down (after initializing a cycle of course), and then agitate...mostly from a vertical orientation. Just be sure to keep the sensor probes oriented downward to maintain continual contact with the water inside, but even if the sensors aren't fully submerged momentarily, it doesn't interrupt the cycle.

                          I haven't tested this method's results for efficiency of microbial destruction, but I can't imagine SteriPen would suggest that you can use these on standard 'bottled water' bottles if the bulb itself had to be physically moved about within the container holding the water to be treated. Surely the agitation over the course of a 90 second cycle would be sufficient as opposed to stirring in a widemouth container or cooking pot...which may prove more effective but possibly not necessary

                          Thoughts? Criticisms?

                          Thanks, Joey
                        • Roleigh Martin
                          http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/5334735/2061264633/name/container_shape_study.pdf If it does not work, the link, go to message thread, you ll find it there.
                          Message 13 of 17 , Jul 9 6:46 PM
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                            http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/5334735/2061264633/name/container_shape_study.pdf

                            If it does not work, the link, go to message thread, you'll find it there. (sometimes these dynamic links are fussy).

                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/message/32893
                            -------------------------------------------------
                            Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                            _



                            On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Joey Lynn <lynnchpin@...> wrote:
                             

                            I know there is a disclaimer about Roleigh's link to studys on alternative containers being broken, but I can't even find any attached file that is claimed to be attached...

                            ...with that being said, I have a SteriPen Journey which has some design differences from others but I've used this on a standard smallmouth 1L water bottle with success to the degree that the SteriPen completes the cycle. Wether or not this is 100% effective at neutralizing microbes (???), but the SteriPen website claims on their "misconceptions" page

                            http://www.steripen.com/steripen-misconceptions/

                            that this model along with a couple others can be used in the fashion of treating standard 'bottled water' bottles, which doesn't specify anything about widemouths. Being the fact that there is a rubber "stopper" like fitting just above the bullb/sensor assembly on the Journey model, it allows you to put the SteriPen in a wider (sorry, slimmer) variety of bottles. As long as you keep just enough headspace in the container you decide to use, hold just enough pressure to keep the SteriPen in the bottle acting like a cork or stopper while holding it upside down (after initializing a cycle of course), and then agitate...mostly from a vertical orientation. Just be sure to keep the sensor probes oriented downward to maintain continual contact with the water inside, but even if the sensors aren't fully submerged momentarily, it doesn't interrupt the cycle.

                            I haven't tested this method's results for efficiency of microbial destruction, but I can't imagine SteriPen would suggest that you can use these on standard 'bottled water' bottles if the bulb itself had to be physically moved about within the container holding the water to be treated. Surely the agitation over the course of a 90 second cycle would be sufficient as opposed to stirring in a widemouth container or cooking pot...which may prove more effective but possibly not necessary

                            Thoughts? Criticisms?

                            Thanks, Joey


                          • john_friend
                            Lo and behold, I went into the camping cabinet in the garage and found a lighter weight Nalgene. It weighs 3.2oz on my scale. It s not the hard clear plastic
                            Message 14 of 17 , Jul 10 1:34 AM
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                              Lo and behold, I went into the camping cabinet in the garage and found a lighter weight Nalgene.  It weighs 3.2oz on my scale.  It's not the hard clear plastic that the heavier Nalgenes are, but a softer white cloudy plastic.  When you squeeze it, it gives just a little bit, but it still seems very robust.  It says Nalgene UVPE on the bottom.  A web search turns up this about UVPE:

                              UVPE is a version of HDPE (High-density polyethylene) designed to withstand UV radiation from sunlight, which can cause plastic to deteriorate over time.

                              This bottle is old, but contains a recyling code of #2 which I think means it didn't contain BPA.

                              It looks like I'll go with this one.

                              --John

                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin wrote:
                              >
                              > John, I have the HDPE Nalgene container, maybe a newer one is lighter, but
                              > the one I have, measured on a very precise expensive postal scale, is 4.05
                              > oz.
                              > -------------------------------------------------
                              > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                              > links)
                              > _
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 6:58 PM, john_friend yahoo@...wrote:
                              >
                              > > **
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Lot's of great help so far (as usual). My first realization is that I
                              > > have the wrong Nalgene. If I was going to go with a hard sided Nalgene, I
                              > > should have the HDPE one:
                              > > http://www.rei.com/product/402049/nalgene-wide-mouth-loop-top-round-bottle-32-fl-oz which
                              > > is only 3.5oz (all local REI stores are out of stock). Nalgene makes one
                              > > of these with an even lighter lid (no retainer on the lid) so that would be
                              > > an even lighter option. Not sure where I can get either one of these
                              > > locally in the next couple days.
                              > >
                              > > Using the cooking pot is an intriguing idea. Will have to think about
                              > > that one. Would definitely save some weight. We are only boiling water in
                              > > our cooking pot too so it will always be clean. The only main downside I
                              > > can of for the cookpot is that it would make a lousy scoop in a shallow
                              > > water source (you'd have to fill it with something else).
                              > >
                              > > For some reason, I didn't like the idea of using the collapsible Nalgene
                              > > for this (I had considered that before). It seems too tall and not as
                              > > convenient to fill or sit on the ground while doing the UV, but I see in
                              > > the backpackinglight thread that Steripen says that it is OK. May have to
                              > > think again about that option as it is only 2oz.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > A very good thread to read is this one on alternate steripen containers:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=19105
                              > > >
                              > > > The 2.9 oz container I show however is not as durable as a Nalgene bottle
                              > > > and last year it cracked on the JMT, and I used spare cash to buy a
                              > > Nalgene
                              > > > bottle on the trail.
                              > > >
                              > > > A Nalgene HDPE 1 qt bottle is lighter than the weight quoted in this
                              > > > thread. It is 4.05 oz versus the shiny hard plastic Nalgene which is 6.4
                              > > > oz. This year, I'm bringing the 4.05 oz HDPE Plastic Nalgene bottle as I
                              > > > want it to last the entire hike.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > -------------------------------------------------
                              > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                              > > > links)
                              > > > _
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
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