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Re: [John Muir Trail] Sequoia Fire Chief Response on Alcohol Stove Use and PCTA Reminder about Campfires

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  • Herb
    Just to add a note as to the legal consequences: IF a hiker starts a fire and IF the stove he/she used is determined to be illegal under the fire restrictions,
    Message 1 of 32 , Jul 3, 2013
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      Just to add a note as to the legal consequences: IF a hiker starts a fire and IF the stove he/she used is determined to be illegal under the fire restrictions, the hiker may be liable for the costs of fire suppression and loss of property. Should someone be injured or killed as a result of that fire, there may also be criminal liability.

      While the above is an unlikely scenario it is not impossible. Until there is clarification in the regulations, it would seem advisable to avoid stoves that MAY be illegal in restricted areas.

      Herb

      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
      >
      > Important reminder:
      > http://www.pcta.org/2013/campfires-banned-on-southern-pct-12941/
      > ...
      > Legal consequences
      >
      > In National Parks and National Forests, violation of campfire prohibitions
      > is subject to punishment by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment
      > for not more than six months or both. Persons may also be responsible for
      > resource damage, suppression costs and any injuries that occur if they are
      > found liable for causing a wildfire.
      >
      > On BLM land, any person convicted of knowingly and willfully violating a
      > Fire Prevention Order can be fined up to $1,000, receive up to 12 months in
      > jail, or both. That person is also liable for the cost of damages and
      > suppression of the fire.
      >
      >
      > -------------------------------------------------
      > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
      > links)<https://plus.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
      >
    • John Ladd
      ... i suggest you print them separately, rather than all on the same page. Depending which jurisdiction you are in and the shoulder patch on the ranger you are
      Message 32 of 32 , Jul 8, 2013
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        On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
        If you do bring an alcohol stove, I'd definitely bring a printout of the email from Don!

        i suggest you print them separately, rather than all on the same page. Depending which jurisdiction you are in and the shoulder patch on the ranger you are talking to, you'd want to pull out the most favorable one under the circumstances. The conflicting advice in this series of communications is likely to make the Ranger feel like you were shopping for the interpretation you liked, rather than the one he's charged with enforcing.

        If you are clearly within Inyo, I'd use that (at least with an esbit). If within Sierra-administered-by-Inyo, I'd use Sierra. In Yosemite NP, use the Yosemite one. In SEKI use that one. Depends a bit on whether you are wanting to use Esbits or alcohol. Sounds like you'd need Esbits for Inyo but might get away with alcohol elsewhere. Or keep it simple and just bring a isobutane stove. Do you really want to play lawyer on your hike?

        But if you do play lawyer, make sure you focus the ranger on the most helpful support for each jurisdiction. That's an old lawyer skill and I dust them off occasionally

        John Curran Ladd
        1616 Castro Street
        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
        415-648-9279
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