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Re: Missed JMT at three places

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  • John
    Bruce I ve only been to the top of the north Cone. I bet the South one has a better view, especially down the Middle Fork. John
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 25, 2013
      Bruce

      I've only been to the top of the north Cone. I bet the South one has a better view, especially down the Middle Fork.

      John

      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
      >
      > John (Dittli), do you think the North Cone has a better view than the South? I'm specifically planning to hop up and get a panorama from the Cones this year and was assuming the South would be best.
      >
      > Just after the Clouds Rest Junction, going N on the JMT, right where it crosses Sunrise Creek by all the camping use trails stood out to me as a particularly confusing spot.
      > Bruce
      >
      > --- "John" <johndittli@> wrote:
      > ------------- The "Red Cones" trail is the JMT, but most people actually follow the PCT SoBo out of Reds (lower trail). The JMT is incorrectly marked on the 7.5' maps. Older maps have the historic alignment. Great view from up on the north Cone. The trails come together again SoBo in the Crater Meadows area.
      > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
      > <http://www.johndittli.com>
      >
      > --- "krishna9012" wrote:
      > I always prided my self on my trail finding abilities. Still I missed
      > JMT at the following three different spots in July/ Aug time when there was no snow in those areas. I had to do some circles around till I found the trail again.
      > 1. Coming south from Reds Meadow, JMT turns south and the well defined Red cones trail goes north. The trail and the sign are hidden
      > behind bushes and I ended up going north to the red cones till some one pointed out that JMT is going south. Well it was worth the view though!
      > 2. After Muir Pass, camped at a single site overlooking the Helen
      > lake and next day I thought I was following a well defined trail, till I ended up on boulders with the south fork of the Kings river (which is still a cascading stream) cataracts. Then suddenly saw the trail on the east side of the stream. So again have to scramble on boulders, cross stream and reach the JMT.
      > 3. About an hour after the Woods ck bridge, the trail reached a
      > stream and from there, there were several trails, one going along the stream and one going to a packer's camp site. It was getting dark, so camped at the comfortable packer's camp with fire ring. Next morning, I crossed the stream and found the trail behind a huge boulder and continued towards Baxter pass junction. Wondering whether this is common to the first time JMT'rs or just a blow to my ego :)
      >
    • robert shattuck
      Here s a view from the north cone (hey Stu!!!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucwhH65ryGw Up until last season you could take the mammoth pass trailhead
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 25, 2013
        Here's a view from the "north cone"  (hey Stu!!!) 


        Up until last season you could take the mammoth pass trailhead outa Reds and it was a pretty casual walk, eventually bringing you up the back side of the cone. Very nice place to spend the night. 

        If you look really fast ( as I pan around there!) you can see the other "cone" which doesn't appeasr to be much of a cone, but rather just a slope. I've never been to the top of it, but there do appear to be tracks going up it . . . 

        as I said, with last seasons tremendous winds and so much trail damage, they are apparently thinking of not clearing/opening this trail section––so now you get to the junction there at the crater meadow crossing and head left and UP UP UP to get to the top. it's a sandy workout, like running on the beach. 

        BOB

        http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480




        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        From: johndittli@...
        Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 20:16:08 +0000
        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Missed JMT at three places

         
        Bruce

        I've only been to the top of the north Cone. I bet the South one has a better view, especially down the Middle Fork.

        John

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
        >
        > John (Dittli), do you think the North Cone has a better view than the South? I'm specifically planning to hop up and get a panorama from the Cones this year and was assuming the South would be best.
        >
        > Just after the Clouds Rest Junction, going N on the JMT, right where it crosses Sunrise Creek by all the camping use trails stood out to me as a particularly confusing spot.
        > Bruce
        >
        > --- "John" <johndittli@> wrote:
        > ------------- The "Red Cones" trail is the JMT, but most people actually follow the PCT SoBo out of Reds (lower trail). The JMT is incorrectly marked on the 7.5' maps. Older maps have the historic alignment. Great view from up on the north Cone. The trails come together again SoBo in the Crater Meadows area.
        > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
        > <http://www.johndittli.com>
        >
        > --- "krishna9012" wrote:
        > I always prided my self on my trail finding abilities. Still I missed
        > JMT at the following three different spots in July/ Aug time when there was no snow in those areas. I had to do some circles around till I found the trail again.
        > 1. Coming south from Reds Meadow, JMT turns south and the well defined Red cones trail goes north. The trail and the sign are hidden
        > behind bushes and I ended up going north to the red cones till some one pointed out that JMT is going south. Well it was worth the view though!
        > 2. After Muir Pass, camped at a single site overlooking the Helen
        > lake and next day I thought I was following a well defined trail, till I ended up on boulders with the south fork of the Kings river (which is still a cascading stream) cataracts. Then suddenly saw the trail on the east side of the stream. So again have to scramble on boulders, cross stream and reach the JMT.
        > 3. About an hour after the Woods ck bridge, the trail reached a
        > stream and from there, there were several trails, one going along the stream and one going to a packer's camp site. It was getting dark, so camped at the comfortable packer's camp with fire ring. Next morning, I crossed the stream and found the trail behind a huge boulder and continued towards Baxter pass junction. Wondering whether this is common to the first time JMT'rs or just a blow to my ego :)
        >


      • John
        Or Page 35 in Walk the Sky eh? View of south Cone from North Cone. John
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 25, 2013
          Or Page 35 in Walk the Sky eh? View of south Cone from North Cone.

          John
          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:
          >
          > Here's a view from the "north cone" (hey Stu!!!)
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucwhH65ryGw
          > Up until last season you could take the mammoth pass trailhead outa Reds and it was a pretty casual walk, eventually bringing you up the back side of the cone. Very nice place to spend the night.
          > If you look really fast ( as I pan around there!) you can see the other "cone" which doesn't appeasr to be much of a cone, but rather just a slope. I've never been to the top of it, but there do appear to be tracks going up it . . .
          > as I said, with last seasons tremendous winds and so much trail damage, they are apparently thinking of not clearing/opening this trail section––so now you get to the junction there at the crater meadow crossing and head left and UP UP UP to get to the top. it's a sandy workout, like running on the beach.
          > BOB
          > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
          >
          >
          >
          > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
          > From: johndittli@...
          > Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 20:16:08 +0000
          > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Missed JMT at three places
          >
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          > Bruce
          >
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          > I've only been to the top of the north Cone. I bet the South one has a better view, especially down the Middle Fork.
          >
          >
          >
          > John
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@> wrote:
          >
          > >
          >
          > > John (Dittli), do you think the North Cone has a better view than the South? I'm specifically planning to hop up and get a panorama from the Cones this year and was assuming the South would be best.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Just after the Clouds Rest Junction, going N on the JMT, right where it crosses Sunrise Creek by all the camping use trails stood out to me as a particularly confusing spot.
          >
          > > Bruce
          >
          > >
          >
          > > --- "John" <johndittli@> wrote:
          >
          > > ------------- The "Red Cones" trail is the JMT, but most people actually follow the PCT SoBo out of Reds (lower trail). The JMT is incorrectly marked on the 7.5' maps. Older maps have the historic alignment. Great view from up on the north Cone. The trails come together again SoBo in the Crater Meadows area.
          >
          > > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
          >
          > > <http://www.johndittli.com>
          >
          > >
          >
          > > --- "krishna9012" wrote:
          >
          > > I always prided my self on my trail finding abilities. Still I missed
          >
          > > JMT at the following three different spots in July/ Aug time when there was no snow in those areas. I had to do some circles around till I found the trail again.
          >
          > > 1. Coming south from Reds Meadow, JMT turns south and the well defined Red cones trail goes north. The trail and the sign are hidden
          >
          > > behind bushes and I ended up going north to the red cones till some one pointed out that JMT is going south. Well it was worth the view though!
          >
          > > 2. After Muir Pass, camped at a single site overlooking the Helen
          >
          > > lake and next day I thought I was following a well defined trail, till I ended up on boulders with the south fork of the Kings river (which is still a cascading stream) cataracts. Then suddenly saw the trail on the east side of the stream. So again have to scramble on boulders, cross stream and reach the JMT.
          >
          > > 3. About an hour after the Woods ck bridge, the trail reached a
          >
          > > stream and from there, there were several trails, one going along the stream and one going to a packer's camp site. It was getting dark, so camped at the comfortable packer's camp with fire ring. Next morning, I crossed the stream and found the trail behind a huge boulder and continued towards Baxter pass junction. Wondering whether this is common to the first time JMT'rs or just a blow to my ego :)
          >
          > >
          >
        • brucelem12
          Thanks John...that s what I was thinking. Looking to get an unobstructed 180+ pano as far up the Mid Fork and down Cascade Valley as possible, so does indeed
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 25, 2013
            Thanks John...that's what I was thinking. Looking to get an unobstructed 180+ pano as far up the Mid Fork and down Cascade Valley as possible, so does indeed seem like the South Cone more optimal...especially looking at your Walk the Sky book photo, even though I presume that's shot from somewhat below the North Cone high point.
            Thanks for the info and video Bob!
            Bruce


            --- "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
            Or Page 35 in Walk the Sky eh? View of south Cone from North Cone.
            John


            --- robert shattuck <bobolonius@> wrote:
            Here's a view from the "north cone" (hey Stu!!!)
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucwhH65ryGw
            ----------------------------------------------------------
            ----------------
            BOB


            ----------- "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
            Bruce
            I've only been to the top of the north Cone. I bet the South one has a better view, especially down the Middle Fork.
            John


            ---------- brucelem12 <no_reply@> wrote:
            John (Dittli), do you think the North Cone has a better view than the South? I'm specifically planning to hop up and get a panorama from the Cones this year and was assuming the South would be best.
            ----------------------------
            Bruce


            ----------- "John" <johndittli@> wrote:
            ------------- The "Red Cones" trail is the JMT, but most people actually follow the PCT SoBo out of Reds (lower trail). The JMT is incorrectly marked on the 7.5' maps. Older maps have the historic alignment. Great view from up on the north Cone. The trails come together again SoBo in the Crater Meadows area.
            JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
            <http://www.johndittli.com>
          • drj4507
            Krishna, I also had a little problem with route finding at that same spot after the suspension bridge. Not lost, but was just a little unsure of my present
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 25, 2013
              Krishna, I also had a little problem with route finding at that same spot after the suspension bridge. Not lost, but was just a little unsure of my present position, if you get my drift. I batted around in the weeds for a while, retraced to a known spot, then reset. I got hailed on that afternoon approaching Rae Lakes, probably as a punishment from the mountain navigation gods (or goddesses). Dr J.

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "krishna9012" <krishna9012@...> wrote:
              >
              > I always prided my self on my trail finding abilities. Still I missed JMT at the following three different spots in July/ Aug time when there was no snow in those areas. I had to do some circles around till I found the trail again.
              >
              > 1. Coming south from Reds Meadow, JMT turns south and the well defined Red cones trail goes north. The trail and the sign are hidden behind bushes and I ended up going north to the red cones till some one pointed out that JMT is going south. Well it was worth the view though!
              >
              > 2. After Muir Pass, camped at a single site overlooking the Helen lake and next day I thought I was following a well defined trail, till I ended up on boulders with the south fork of the Kings river (which is still a cascading stream) cataracts. Then suddenly saw the trail on the east side of the stream. So again have to scramble on boulders, cross stream and reach the JMT.
              >
              > 3. About an hour after the Woods ck bridge, the trail reached a stream and from there, there were several trails, one going along the stream and one going to a packer's camp site. It was getting dark, so camped at the comfortable packer's camp with fire ring. Next morning, I crossed the stream and found the trail behind a huge boulder and continued towards Baxter pass junction
              >
              > Wondering whether this is common to the first time JMT'rs or just a blow to my ego :)
              >
            • gracec816
              I have never been so frustrated in my life as I was when I got lost in Red s Meadow last summer. It was horribly hot, I was low on water, and all I wanted was
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 25, 2013
                I have never been so frustrated in my life as I was when I got lost in Red's Meadow last summer. It was horribly hot, I was low on water, and all I wanted was ice cream from the Red's Meadow store! And to make matter even worse, one of my many wrong turns involved me walking backwards (that is, north) on the JMT for a while. I get mad at myself even typing this right now :)

                So to answer your question, getting lost at Red's is far too common (at least in my experience).

                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
                >
                > The Reds area is confusing with a myriad of trails. I'm not sure where
                > you were, but there is a chance you weren't "lost" but actually on the
                > JMT. The "Red Cones" trail is the JMT, but most people actually follow
                > the PCT SoBo out of Reds (lower trail). The JMT is incorrectly marked on
                > the 7.5' maps. Older maps have the historic alignment. Great view from
                > up on the north Cone. The trails come together again SoBo in the Crater
                > Meadows area.
                > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
                > <http://www.johndittli.com>
                >
                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "krishna9012" wrote:
                > >
                > > I always prided my self on my trail finding abilities. Still I missed
                > JMT at the following three different spots in July/ Aug time when there
                > was no snow in those areas. I had to do some circles around till I
                > found the trail again.
                > >
                > > 1. Coming south from Reds Meadow, JMT turns south and the well
                > defined Red cones trail goes north. The trail and the sign are hidden
                > behind bushes and I ended up going north to the red cones till some one
                > pointed out that JMT is going south. Well it was worth the view though!
                > >
                > > 2. After Muir Pass, camped at a single site overlooking the Helen
                > lake and next day I thought I was following a well defined trail, till I
                > ended up on boulders with the south fork of the Kings river (which is
                > still a cascading stream) cataracts. Then suddenly saw the trail on the
                > east side of the stream. So again have to scramble on boulders, cross
                > stream and reach the JMT.
                > >
                > > 3. About an hour after the Woods ck bridge, the trail reached a
                > stream and from there, there were several trails, one going along the
                > stream and one going to a packer's camp site. It was getting dark, so
                > camped at the comfortable packer's camp with fire ring. Next morning, I
                > crossed the stream and found the trail behind a huge boulder and
                > continued towards Baxter pass junction
                > >
                > > Wondering whether this is common to the first time JMT'rs or just a
                > blow to my ego :)
                > >
                >
              • Jim Ringland
                Regarding #3 -- Two years ago I got a little disoriented at the spot south of the circle shown in the link below, so that may be the place. It s where the
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 25, 2013

                  Regarding #3 -- Two years ago I got a little disoriented at the spot south of the circle shown in the link below, so that may be the place.  It's where the Trail crosses the creek draining the Sixty Lakes Basin.  I was heading northbound on a segment hike in September 2011.  There were a variety of use trails before the real crossing that looked larger than the real trail.  It may have been that earlier that year -- 2011 was a wet year -- people were looking for alternative crossings that didn't require wet feet.  I ended up crossing in the wrong place and then climbing a rather steep hill to find the JMT again.  No big deal, but I was off the trail unexpectedly. 

                   

                  Krishna -- I don't know whether getting off trail there is common, but you are certainly not alone.

                   

                  Jim Ringland

                   

                  From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of krishna9012
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 11:09 AM
                  To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Missed JMT at three places

                   

                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/25552148@N02/9135303251/

                  I just checked the photos - they were too dark! So uploaded page 35 of Erik's JMT Atlas showing the approximate place where I camped. The circle may be wrong. It could be the stream crossing south of the circle north of the Baxter pass jn.

                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                  >
                  <snip>
                  >
                  > #3 I'm curious about, wish you had taken a picture and had it pinpointed on
                  > a map.

                  >
                  > On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 11:16 AM, krishna9012 <krishna9012@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > > I always prided my self on my trail finding abilities. Still I missed JMT
                  > > at the following three different spots in July/ Aug time when there was no
                  > > snow in those areas. I had to do some circles around till I found the trail
                  > > again.
                  > >
                  <snip>
                  > >
                  > > 3. About an hour after the Woods ck bridge, the trail reached a stream and
                  > > from there, there were several trails, one going along the stream and one
                  > > going to a packer's camp site. It was getting dark, so camped at the
                  > > comfortable packer's camp with fire ring. Next morning, I crossed the
                  > > stream and found the trail behind a huge boulder and continued towards
                  > > Baxter pass junction
                  > >
                  > > Wondering whether this is common to the first time JMT'rs or just a blow
                  > > to my ego :)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >

                • fortunateblessings
                  Does anyone else find next the meadow area (immediately beside the trail) that s above the Crater Meadow area particularly interesting because of the water
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 28, 2013
                    Does anyone else find next the meadow area (immediately beside the trail) that's above the Crater Meadow area particularly interesting because of the water source that flows off in two opposite directions there? It was subtle where the direction changes. I'm not sure why that's so fascinating to me. It just is.

                    #3 I did the same thing (or a very similar thing) at a stream crossing on the Rae Lakes loop in July of last year. The little path off to the right is obvious and occurs right at the stream. I think my eye noticed it before noticing a bit of path--maybe 20 or 30 feet away--winding around the rock on the other side of the stream. It's a short path to the right that simply ended in a (probably inappropriately located) camp site.

                    Mark

                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The Reds area is confusing with a myriad of trails. I'm not sure where
                    > you were, but there is a chance you weren't "lost" but actually on the
                    > JMT. The "Red Cones" trail is the JMT, but most people actually follow
                    > the PCT SoBo out of Reds (lower trail). The JMT is incorrectly marked on
                    > the 7.5' maps. Older maps have the historic alignment. Great view from
                    > up on the north Cone. The trails come together again SoBo in the Crater
                    > Meadows area.
                    > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
                    > <http://www.johndittli.com>
                    >
                    > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "krishna9012" wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I always prided my self on my trail finding abilities. Still I missed
                    > JMT at the following three different spots in July/ Aug time when there
                    > was no snow in those areas. I had to do some circles around till I
                    > found the trail again.
                    > >
                    > > 1. Coming south from Reds Meadow, JMT turns south and the well
                    > defined Red cones trail goes north. The trail and the sign are hidden
                    > behind bushes and I ended up going north to the red cones till some one
                    > pointed out that JMT is going south. Well it was worth the view though!
                    > >
                    > > 2. After Muir Pass, camped at a single site overlooking the Helen
                    > lake and next day I thought I was following a well defined trail, till I
                    > ended up on boulders with the south fork of the Kings river (which is
                    > still a cascading stream) cataracts. Then suddenly saw the trail on the
                    > east side of the stream. So again have to scramble on boulders, cross
                    > stream and reach the JMT.
                    > >
                    > > 3. About an hour after the Woods ck bridge, the trail reached a
                    > stream and from there, there were several trails, one going along the
                    > stream and one going to a packer's camp site. It was getting dark, so
                    > camped at the comfortable packer's camp with fire ring. Next morning, I
                    > crossed the stream and found the trail behind a huge boulder and
                    > continued towards Baxter pass junction
                    > >
                    > > Wondering whether this is common to the first time JMT'rs or just a
                    > blow to my ego :)
                    > >
                    >
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