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RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Considering the Iva Bell detour

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  • robert shattuck
    You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I ve never been that route. Just a few notes––for the first time, last year, I went over
    Message 1 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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      "You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route." 

      Just a few notes––for the first time, last year, I went over Goodale––good for a change, but I found the signage a bit confusing once I got down to within maybe a mile of the VVR. 

      I got to a junction, went to the left, came back, went to the right . . . what was I missing? Luckily, having been to VVR a few times and knowing what to look for I just headed out onto the dry lake bed and worked my way towards the dry shores of the VVR . . . . if you've never been there though, you might possibly be in a bit of a fix, trying to figure it out. 

      BOB

      http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480



    • John Ladd
      On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:55 AM, brucelem12 ... previous post. I think his mileage was different (and based on actual experience).
      Message 2 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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        On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:55 AM, brucelem12 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        >
        > ... John Ladd posted a nice map/description w/ photo/video links in a previous post. I think his mileage was different (and based on actual experience).

        The mileage I gave was just taken from a map, also. So I can't make any great claims for it.

        I did a map of my route, if it's of any use

        http://goo.gl/maps/vVCq9

        Make sure to switch the display to Terrain View.

        My prior post with some other links is here

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/message/15975

        And the same thread has some other information about the Springs

        John Curran Ladd
        1616 Castro Street
        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
        415-648-9279
      • targetdoggmechanic
        I was adding up the portion to where it joints the jmt at silver pass, just past squaw lake at the goodale pass jct.
        Message 3 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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          I was adding up the portion to where it joints the jmt at silver pass, just past squaw lake at the goodale pass jct.

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
          >
          > What am I missing here? I re-did the mileage numbers using the cut-off to Reds Meadow Store as a starting point, and the junction that is 1.1 miles from Tully Hole as the re-joining point of the JMT and I get 23 miles for the Cascade Valley/Iva Bell detour and only 18.9 miles for the JMT portion. I am using the Tom Harrison maps for mileage.
          >
          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Iva Bell is definitely worth the trip. It is 12 miles, the first 9 all downhill or flat from Reds. Great scenic vistas, IMO better than the JMT proper. Purple lake isnt that big of a deal, Virginia is definitely a tough one to miss though. My last JMT I did a detour at Reds to Iva Bell, and rejoined just below Silver Pass. It allowed me to see Lake of the Lone Indian, which was a great lake to see. To get there, take the Rainbow Falls trail and continue to Fish Creek, then cross the Bridge at Island Crossing, head uphill along Fish Creek for 3 miles, Cascade Valley Junction, cross Fish Creek on a log. Iva Bell and its nice campsites are just up the hill and all around. Look for the wet grassy meadow above the house sized boulder, there are 3 pools there and more up the hill a ways. A great way to be under the stars and comfortably warm clear pools, no sulfer odor. You can continue up the cascade valley trail to Purple Lake and Virginia, but having doing the JMT 2 times before, I rejoined by following Fish Creek trail, past lake of the Lone Indian, and Silver Pass is right there. It cuts off 2 miles of the JMT doing this route. You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route.
          > >
          >
        • Robert
          Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is
          Message 4 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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            Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two. Going of my software the mileage for the detour through Cascade Valley to just above Squaw Lake is shorter than the JMT by 1.4 miles and 817' less elevation gain overall, a pretty good route. When I add up the numbers with the Harrison maps, it shows that route a couple miles longer?

            The detour through Cascade Valley to between Tully Hole and Squaw Lake favors well with the software well. It shows that route as 18.6 miles with 4437' of elevation gain, whereas the Harrison maps show the same section as 23 miles.

            The stretch from the Fish Creek Trail to Purple Lake is 3.1 on the Harrison maps, but 2.2 miles on the software with 1568' of elevation gain.

            The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice looking cascades along the way!

            Thanks for the follow-up!

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@...> wrote:
            >
            > I was adding up the portion to where it joints the jmt at silver pass, just past squaw lake at the goodale pass jct.
            >
            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
            > >
            > > What am I missing here? I re-did the mileage numbers using the cut-off to Reds Meadow Store as a starting point, and the junction that is 1.1 miles from Tully Hole as the re-joining point of the JMT and I get 23 miles for the Cascade Valley/Iva Bell detour and only 18.9 miles for the JMT portion. I am using the Tom Harrison maps for mileage.
            > >
            > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Iva Bell is definitely worth the trip. It is 12 miles, the first 9 all downhill or flat from Reds. Great scenic vistas, IMO better than the JMT proper. Purple lake isnt that big of a deal, Virginia is definitely a tough one to miss though. My last JMT I did a detour at Reds to Iva Bell, and rejoined just below Silver Pass. It allowed me to see Lake of the Lone Indian, which was a great lake to see. To get there, take the Rainbow Falls trail and continue to Fish Creek, then cross the Bridge at Island Crossing, head uphill along Fish Creek for 3 miles, Cascade Valley Junction, cross Fish Creek on a log. Iva Bell and its nice campsites are just up the hill and all around. Look for the wet grassy meadow above the house sized boulder, there are 3 pools there and more up the hill a ways. A great way to be under the stars and comfortably warm clear pools, no sulfer odor. You can continue up the cascade valley trail to Purple Lake and Virginia, but having doing the JMT 2 times before, I rejoined by following Fish Creek trail, past lake of the Lone Indian, and Silver Pass is right there. It cuts off 2 miles of the JMT doing this route. You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route.
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • sanfran_rwood
            ... Well, yeah. Since you insist, I ve uploaded two quick videos of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng --
            Message 5 of 30 , Jun 21, 2013
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              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
              > The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek
              > route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice
              > looking cascades along the way!

              Well, yeah. Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng
              --
              Richard
            • sanfran_rwood
              ... I ve also uploaded a massive panorama (4863×2570 pixels) of the view from about where Cold Creek tumbles down into the Middle Fork of the San Joaquin,
              Message 6 of 30 , Jun 21, 2013
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                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sanfran_rwood" <MrRedwood@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                > > The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek
                > > route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice
                > > looking cascades along the way!
                >
                > Well, yeah.  Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos
                > of Fish Creek to YouTube.  See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc
                > and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng

                I've also uploaded a massive panorama (4863×2570 pixels) of the view from about where Cold Creek tumbles down into the Middle Fork of the San Joaquin, which is the downhill portion of this detour. Cascade Canyon/Fish Creek and the Iva Bell hotsprings are on the other side of the ridge on the left side, heading back east and up. I believe the lat/long is about 37.55254,-119.08931.

                Note: click on "Original" for the very big pano; in most browsers you can right-click to see just the image.
                http://yhoo.it/12ZdZes
                Vista SW from JMT detour
                --
                Richard

              • brucelem12
                Excellent...thanks! That pano in particular shows quite a dramatic contrast to the JMT section it parallels. It s so easy to underestimate how interestingly
                Message 7 of 30 , Jun 21, 2013
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                  Excellent...thanks! That pano in particular shows quite a dramatic contrast to the JMT section it parallels. It's so easy to underestimate how interestingly radical the terrain is on a map.
                  Bruce

                  -------"sanfran_rwood" <MrRedwood@> wrote:
                  Well, yeah. Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos
                  of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc
                  and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng-------------
                  -----I've also uploaded a massive panorama (4863×2570 pixels) of the view from about where Cold Creek tumbles down into the Middle Fork of the San Joaquin, which is the downhill portion of this detour. --------
                  Richard
                • Robert
                  Nice! Thanks for posting Richard. Looks like some decent swimming holes along there, and I like that! I m actually going to hike a few non-JMT detours next
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jun 21, 2013
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                    Nice! Thanks for posting Richard. Looks like some decent swimming holes along there, and I like that! I'm actually going to hike a few non-JMT detours next time I do the trail. I am really looking at Goodale Pass as well as I haven't been over it either. Thanks again for posting. I am getting antsy to get out, one week to my first trip out...yay!

                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sanfran_rwood" <MrRedwood@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                    > > The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek
                    > > route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice
                    > > looking cascades along the way!
                    >
                    > Well, yeah. Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng
                    > --
                    > Richard
                    >
                  • Chris
                    Robert: Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance. Chris.
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jun 22, 2013
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                      Robert:

                      Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance.

                      Chris.

                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two.
                    • brucelem12
                      Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jun 23, 2013
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                        Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?

                        John (Ladd)...I see that you noticed a lesser flow rate in July 2008 when you were there compared to someone's Sept 2009 video you linked.

                        I found a few photo journals from last year that show it still very appealing...but they did look to be right about mid Aug when that area was finally getting a lot of rainfall.

                        I'm guessing it won't make that much difference down there around such a major drainage...but thought I'd check since I too am considering it for a very dry July/Aug hike this year.
                        Bruce

                        http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=1731667

                        http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=693649

                        http://coupleohuckleberries.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/the-hike-out/


                        --- "Erica" <xericamunsonx@...> wrote:
                        -----------------I'm working on our itinerary - and I'm finding myself seriously considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs. I'm finding myself completely torn between doing a "pure" JMT hike - and soaking my tired muscles into the night under the Sierra stars. --------------
                        -------------
                        ----------Thanks!
                        Erica
                      • John Ladd
                        ... I can t really say this with any certainty. And 2007-08 and 2008-09 were very similar snowpack years, o I don t know that, even if I were right, that adds
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jun 23, 2013
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                          On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 6:08 AM, brucelem12 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                          John (Ladd)...I see that you noticed a lesser flow rate in July 2008 when you were there compared to someone's Sept 2009 video you linked.

                          I can't really say this with any certainty. And 2007-08 and 2008-09 were very similar snowpack years, o I don't know that, even if I were right, that adds much information.

                          John Curran Ladd
                          1616 Castro Street
                          San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                          415-648-9279
                        • Robert
                          I wish I had an easy answer on that on. They have both seemed more accurate at different times for me over the years. I would say the Harrison Maps look to be
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jun 23, 2013
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                            I wish I had an easy answer on that on. They have both seemed more accurate at different times for me over the years. I would say the Harrison Maps look to be more accurate in this case after tracing the routes out on another routing system I use. I know this isn't always the case, but generally the PCT will take the most direct route if there is a fairly equal scenic option, ie; The High Trail from Devils Postpile to Thousand Island Lake vs the JMT route. It would surprise me if they took the JMT route here if it were truly longer, but that is only my opinion. Either way, it looks well worth the detour even if it proves to be a touch longer, if you have done the JMT previously. If not, maybe just bite the bullet and hike he short up hill from Cascade Valley to Purple Lake so you don't miss Purple and Virginia Lakes. I always think the view into Tully Hole is nice as well.

                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cehauser1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Robert:
                            >
                            > Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance.
                            >
                            > Chris.
                            >
                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two.
                            >
                          • targetdoggmechanic
                            I think the Harrison Map pack for the JMT is accurate. I don t have a gps but my pace matches what the map says mileage wise. I made it to the goodale pass/JMT
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jun 23, 2013
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                              I think the Harrison Map pack for the JMT is accurate. I don't have a gps but my pace matches what the map says mileage wise. I made it to the goodale pass/JMT jct above squaw lake in about the same time it took me when I hiked the JMT proper.

                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I wish I had an easy answer on that on. They have both seemed more accurate at different times for me over the years. I would say the Harrison Maps look to be more accurate in this case after tracing the routes out on another routing system I use. I know this isn't always the case, but generally the PCT will take the most direct route if there is a fairly equal scenic option, ie; The High Trail from Devils Postpile to Thousand Island Lake vs the JMT route. It would surprise me if they took the JMT route here if it were truly longer, but that is only my opinion. Either way, it looks well worth the detour even if it proves to be a touch longer, if you have done the JMT previously. If not, maybe just bite the bullet and hike he short up hill from Cascade Valley to Purple Lake so you don't miss Purple and Virginia Lakes. I always think the view into Tully Hole is nice as well.
                              >
                              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cehauser1@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Robert:
                              > >
                              > > Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance.
                              > >
                              > > Chris.
                              > >
                              > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two.
                              > >
                              >
                            • Erica
                              If anyone does do this route over the summer - I d definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jun 24, 2013
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                                If anyone does do this route over the summer - I'd definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely shaping up to be quite interesting...

                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?
                              • Erica
                                If anyone does do this route over the summer - I d definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jun 24, 2013
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                                  If anyone does do this route over the summer - I'd definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely shaping up to be quite interesting...

                                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?
                                • Erica
                                  If anyone does do this route over the summer - I d definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jun 24, 2013
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                                    If anyone does do this route over the summer - I'd definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely shaping up to be quite interesting...

                                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?
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