Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: Considering the Iva Bell detour

Expand Messages
  • Barbara Karagosian
    When you did this, where did you cross the river? When we did it (one year with Roleigh, as a detour) the trail from purple Lake down into the Cascade valley
    Message 1 of 30 , Jun 20 2:44 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      When you did this, where did you cross the river?  When we did it (one year with Roleigh, as a detour) the trail from purple Lake down into the Cascade valley ended at the river where there was a large downed tree that went 3/4 of the way across.  We opted to wade, then climb over the end of the tree then climb up the bank.  Im wondering if there was an easier way that we missed.

      Gorgeous campsites on granite outcroppings not far up from there.  Lots and lots of mosquitoes along the river itself.

      Barbara


      The way I came out of Cascade Valley the time I did it skips Purple Lake and Lake Virginia and rejoins the JMT at the low point after Tully Hole. That's the easy way.

       

    • Robert
      What am I missing here? I re-did the mileage numbers using the cut-off to Reds Meadow Store as a starting point, and the junction that is 1.1 miles from Tully
      Message 2 of 30 , Jun 20 6:15 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        What am I missing here? I re-did the mileage numbers using the cut-off to Reds Meadow Store as a starting point, and the junction that is 1.1 miles from Tully Hole as the re-joining point of the JMT and I get 23 miles for the Cascade Valley/Iva Bell detour and only 18.9 miles for the JMT portion. I am using the Tom Harrison maps for mileage.

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@...> wrote:
        >
        > Iva Bell is definitely worth the trip. It is 12 miles, the first 9 all downhill or flat from Reds. Great scenic vistas, IMO better than the JMT proper. Purple lake isnt that big of a deal, Virginia is definitely a tough one to miss though. My last JMT I did a detour at Reds to Iva Bell, and rejoined just below Silver Pass. It allowed me to see Lake of the Lone Indian, which was a great lake to see. To get there, take the Rainbow Falls trail and continue to Fish Creek, then cross the Bridge at Island Crossing, head uphill along Fish Creek for 3 miles, Cascade Valley Junction, cross Fish Creek on a log. Iva Bell and its nice campsites are just up the hill and all around. Look for the wet grassy meadow above the house sized boulder, there are 3 pools there and more up the hill a ways. A great way to be under the stars and comfortably warm clear pools, no sulfer odor. You can continue up the cascade valley trail to Purple Lake and Virginia, but having doing the JMT 2 times before, I rejoined by following Fish Creek trail, past lake of the Lone Indian, and Silver Pass is right there. It cuts off 2 miles of the JMT doing this route. You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route.
        >
      • sanfran_rwood
        ... I was heading uphill from Island Crossing and Iva Bell, and the first crossing of Fish Creek is after going over the hump that the springs come out of.
        Message 3 of 30 , Jun 20 6:26 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Karagosian wrote:
          > When you did this, where did you cross the river?  When we did
          > it (one year with Roleigh, as a detour) the trail from Purple Lake
          > down into the Cascade valley ended at the river where there was
          > a large downed tree that went 3/4 of the way across.  We opted
          > to wade, then climb over the end of the tree then climb up the
          > bank.  I'm wondering if there was an easier way that we missed.

          I was heading uphill from Island Crossing and Iva Bell, and the first crossing of Fish Creek is after going over the hump that the springs come out of.  Oddly enough, it's called "Second Crossing" on the old topo maps (Island Crossing is probably the "first"); it's at about 37.53345,-119.01129.
           
          Fish Creek at that point is wide and pretty shallow. I was there in September of the heavy rain year of 2011, and it was about thirty feet wide with a maximum depth of maybe two feet.  Plenty of water, but a smooth crossing.  It could get tough early in a wet year, I suspect.

          I've added a photo of the mid-September crossing to the Misc photo album:
          Fish Creek, Second Crossing
          Sorry it isn't too well composed; it was raining at the time. The trail continues upcanyon at that clearing across the stream.

          Coming down from Purple Lake, that is the necessary crossing of Fish Creek if you headed down the canyon.

          If you went over Fish Creek right where the Purple Lake trail comes down, it sounds like you climbed out of Cascade Valley at Minnow Creek. Don't know why -- Fish Creek is gorgeous.

          Anyone continuing up Cascade Valley past the Purple Lake cutoff and to the junction with JMT will cross a much smaller Fish Creek twice more (I think) near the end of the valley.
          --
          Richard
        • brucelem12
          My Tom Harrison maps (maybe an older version or something) show the full trail to Iva Bell. They indicate: Reds store to Fish Creek crossing = approx. 9.6
          Message 4 of 30 , Jun 20 6:55 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            My Tom Harrison maps (maybe an older version or something) show the full trail to Iva Bell. They indicate:

            Reds store to Fish Creek crossing = approx. 9.6 miles,
            Fish Creek Crossing to Iva Bell Hot Springs (IVB) = 3.5,

            IVB to Purple Lake Trail by upper trail= 6.4 another 3.1 to Purple Lake another 3.5 to join JMT right near JMT Fish Creek crossing,

            IVB to Purple Lake Trail by lower trail = 5.8 another 4.4 to Purple lake another 5.7 to join JMT between Squaw/Chief Lakes (passing by Lake of the Lone Indian and Goodale Pass junction 0.4 before hitting JMT.

            Mileage on different maps always seems to vary a fair amount, so I wouldn't take these as guaranteed.
            John Ladd posted a nice map/description w/ photo/video links in a previous post. I think his mileage was different (and based on actual experience).

            JMT south from Reds Mdw to the Red Cones is dry, open, sandy uphill in burned tree stumps from a fire in 92, often noted by many as their least favorite 4 miles of the trail. Can have beautiful wildflowers though. The next 7.5 From the Cones to Ducks Creek is probably the sandiest of the whole trail by my recollection, and waterless last year as of July 28. Some nice views but still probably close to the top of my own personal least favorite sections. Perhaps somewhat tediously repetitive by the outsize standards of the JMT where it's typical to find stunningly dramatic variation from one mile to the next over much of the route. :) I actually thought Purple Lake was particularly lovely, but it is more the sedate tree rimmed type, rather than the more dramatic open sky w/ reflected rim of crags type. Here's a pic in "Photos" "Miscellaneous":

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/photos/album/1468624385/pic/431755418/view

            I haven't been to IVB either, so appreciate all the great info from everyone!
            Bruce

            --- "Erica" <xericamunsonx@...> wrote:
            > ----- the JMT Harrison maps of that area includes the Iva Bell, but the trail cuts off a bit (I have the Mono Divide Map on order). Does anyone have the mileage available for this detour?-------
          • Robert
            I guess what I am saying is that if you like hot springs and some different scenery, than the detour may be worth it, but from what I can see, it is not a
            Message 5 of 30 , Jun 20 7:31 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              I guess what I am saying is that if you like hot springs and some different scenery, than the detour may be worth it, but from what I can see, it is not a short-cut when compared to the JMT. It looks to be an additional 4.1 miles for the total detour from Reds to the Jct between Tully Hole and Squaw Lake. I still would like to do the re-route one of these days, FWIW.

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > My Tom Harrison maps (maybe an older version or something) show the full trail to Iva Bell. They indicate:
              >
              > Reds store to Fish Creek crossing = approx. 9.6 miles,
              > Fish Creek Crossing to Iva Bell Hot Springs (IVB) = 3.5,
              >
              > IVB to Purple Lake Trail by upper trail= 6.4 another 3.1 to Purple Lake another 3.5 to join JMT right near JMT Fish Creek crossing,
              >
              > IVB to Purple Lake Trail by lower trail = 5.8 another 4.4 to Purple lake another 5.7 to join JMT between Squaw/Chief Lakes (passing by Lake of the Lone Indian and Goodale Pass junction 0.4 before hitting JMT.
              >
              > Mileage on different maps always seems to vary a fair amount, so I wouldn't take these as guaranteed.
              > John Ladd posted a nice map/description w/ photo/video links in a previous post. I think his mileage was different (and based on actual experience).
              >
              > JMT south from Reds Mdw to the Red Cones is dry, open, sandy uphill in burned tree stumps from a fire in 92, often noted by many as their least favorite 4 miles of the trail. Can have beautiful wildflowers though. The next 7.5 From the Cones to Ducks Creek is probably the sandiest of the whole trail by my recollection, and waterless last year as of July 28. Some nice views but still probably close to the top of my own personal least favorite sections. Perhaps somewhat tediously repetitive by the outsize standards of the JMT where it's typical to find stunningly dramatic variation from one mile to the next over much of the route. :) I actually thought Purple Lake was particularly lovely, but it is more the sedate tree rimmed type, rather than the more dramatic open sky w/ reflected rim of crags type. Here's a pic in "Photos" "Miscellaneous":
              >
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/photos/album/1468624385/pic/431755418/view
              >
              > I haven't been to IVB either, so appreciate all the great info from everyone!
              > Bruce
              >
              > --- "Erica" <xericamunsonx@> wrote:
              > > ----- the JMT Harrison maps of that area includes the Iva Bell, but the trail cuts off a bit (I have the Mono Divide Map on order). Does anyone have the mileage available for this detour?-------
              >
            • Erica
              Thank you all for the awesome info - it s perfect. I m feeling pretty sure that the detour will be a good decision - and actually probably the steep hike up
              Message 6 of 30 , Jun 20 8:11 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you all for the awesome info - it's perfect. I'm feeling pretty sure that the detour will be a good decision - and actually probably the steep hike up cascade valley might be the best option, as we won't miss Lake Virginia or Purple Lake. And I suppose, if come that day, we're feeling particularly lazy we can skip it and take the easier route.

                Curious if anyone has done the hike over Goodale Pass to get to VVR? I'm leaning away from this option because so much of the trail would be skipped, but would still be curious to hear if anyone else has gone this route...


                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Erica" <xericamunsonx@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'm working on our itinerary - and I'm finding myself seriously considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs. I'm finding myself completely torn between doing a "pure" JMT hike - and soaking my tired muscles into the night under the Sierra stars.
                >
                > A few questions:
                > - the JMT Harrison maps of that area includes the Iva Bell, but the trail cuts off a bit (I have the Mono Divide Map on order). Does anyone have the mileage available for this detour?
                >
                > - It seems there are 2 good places to re-join the JMT - near Silver Pass (before Lake Virginia and Purple Lake), or heading to VVR and re-joining after VVR. I am debating heading to VVR anyway (but was dreading the hike to it) - would it save significant miles compared to heading back to the JMT - then leaving again for VVR (with no ferry)?
                >
                > - I really don't want to miss Lake Virginia or Purple Lake (and I could potentially still see them) - but as an argument to stick to the JMT - is there anything else I'll be missing on the JMT that I should consider?
                >
                > - And, lastly, scenery-wise how is that trail to Iva Bell? If it's particularly un-exciting or hot/exposed...that would be a good argument to stick to the JMT.
                >
                > Thanks!
                > Erica
                >
              • robert shattuck
                You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I ve never been that route. Just a few notes––for the first time, last year, I went over
                Message 7 of 30 , Jun 20 12:45 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  "You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route." 

                  Just a few notes––for the first time, last year, I went over Goodale––good for a change, but I found the signage a bit confusing once I got down to within maybe a mile of the VVR. 

                  I got to a junction, went to the left, came back, went to the right . . . what was I missing? Luckily, having been to VVR a few times and knowing what to look for I just headed out onto the dry lake bed and worked my way towards the dry shores of the VVR . . . . if you've never been there though, you might possibly be in a bit of a fix, trying to figure it out. 

                  BOB

                  http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480



                • John Ladd
                  On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:55 AM, brucelem12 ... previous post. I think his mileage was different (and based on actual experience).
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jun 20 1:12 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:55 AM, brucelem12 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                    >
                    > ... John Ladd posted a nice map/description w/ photo/video links in a previous post. I think his mileage was different (and based on actual experience).

                    The mileage I gave was just taken from a map, also. So I can't make any great claims for it.

                    I did a map of my route, if it's of any use

                    http://goo.gl/maps/vVCq9

                    Make sure to switch the display to Terrain View.

                    My prior post with some other links is here

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/message/15975

                    And the same thread has some other information about the Springs

                    John Curran Ladd
                    1616 Castro Street
                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                    415-648-9279
                  • targetdoggmechanic
                    I was adding up the portion to where it joints the jmt at silver pass, just past squaw lake at the goodale pass jct.
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jun 20 8:45 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I was adding up the portion to where it joints the jmt at silver pass, just past squaw lake at the goodale pass jct.

                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > What am I missing here? I re-did the mileage numbers using the cut-off to Reds Meadow Store as a starting point, and the junction that is 1.1 miles from Tully Hole as the re-joining point of the JMT and I get 23 miles for the Cascade Valley/Iva Bell detour and only 18.9 miles for the JMT portion. I am using the Tom Harrison maps for mileage.
                      >
                      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Iva Bell is definitely worth the trip. It is 12 miles, the first 9 all downhill or flat from Reds. Great scenic vistas, IMO better than the JMT proper. Purple lake isnt that big of a deal, Virginia is definitely a tough one to miss though. My last JMT I did a detour at Reds to Iva Bell, and rejoined just below Silver Pass. It allowed me to see Lake of the Lone Indian, which was a great lake to see. To get there, take the Rainbow Falls trail and continue to Fish Creek, then cross the Bridge at Island Crossing, head uphill along Fish Creek for 3 miles, Cascade Valley Junction, cross Fish Creek on a log. Iva Bell and its nice campsites are just up the hill and all around. Look for the wet grassy meadow above the house sized boulder, there are 3 pools there and more up the hill a ways. A great way to be under the stars and comfortably warm clear pools, no sulfer odor. You can continue up the cascade valley trail to Purple Lake and Virginia, but having doing the JMT 2 times before, I rejoined by following Fish Creek trail, past lake of the Lone Indian, and Silver Pass is right there. It cuts off 2 miles of the JMT doing this route. You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route.
                      > >
                      >
                    • Robert
                      Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jun 20 9:24 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two. Going of my software the mileage for the detour through Cascade Valley to just above Squaw Lake is shorter than the JMT by 1.4 miles and 817' less elevation gain overall, a pretty good route. When I add up the numbers with the Harrison maps, it shows that route a couple miles longer?

                        The detour through Cascade Valley to between Tully Hole and Squaw Lake favors well with the software well. It shows that route as 18.6 miles with 4437' of elevation gain, whereas the Harrison maps show the same section as 23 miles.

                        The stretch from the Fish Creek Trail to Purple Lake is 3.1 on the Harrison maps, but 2.2 miles on the software with 1568' of elevation gain.

                        The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice looking cascades along the way!

                        Thanks for the follow-up!

                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I was adding up the portion to where it joints the jmt at silver pass, just past squaw lake at the goodale pass jct.
                        >
                        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > What am I missing here? I re-did the mileage numbers using the cut-off to Reds Meadow Store as a starting point, and the junction that is 1.1 miles from Tully Hole as the re-joining point of the JMT and I get 23 miles for the Cascade Valley/Iva Bell detour and only 18.9 miles for the JMT portion. I am using the Tom Harrison maps for mileage.
                        > >
                        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Iva Bell is definitely worth the trip. It is 12 miles, the first 9 all downhill or flat from Reds. Great scenic vistas, IMO better than the JMT proper. Purple lake isnt that big of a deal, Virginia is definitely a tough one to miss though. My last JMT I did a detour at Reds to Iva Bell, and rejoined just below Silver Pass. It allowed me to see Lake of the Lone Indian, which was a great lake to see. To get there, take the Rainbow Falls trail and continue to Fish Creek, then cross the Bridge at Island Crossing, head uphill along Fish Creek for 3 miles, Cascade Valley Junction, cross Fish Creek on a log. Iva Bell and its nice campsites are just up the hill and all around. Look for the wet grassy meadow above the house sized boulder, there are 3 pools there and more up the hill a ways. A great way to be under the stars and comfortably warm clear pools, no sulfer odor. You can continue up the cascade valley trail to Purple Lake and Virginia, but having doing the JMT 2 times before, I rejoined by following Fish Creek trail, past lake of the Lone Indian, and Silver Pass is right there. It cuts off 2 miles of the JMT doing this route. You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route.
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • sanfran_rwood
                        ... Well, yeah. Since you insist, I ve uploaded two quick videos of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng --
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jun 21 12:17 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                          > The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek
                          > route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice
                          > looking cascades along the way!

                          Well, yeah. Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng
                          --
                          Richard
                        • sanfran_rwood
                          ... I ve also uploaded a massive panorama (4863×2570 pixels) of the view from about where Cold Creek tumbles down into the Middle Fork of the San Joaquin,
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jun 21 1:43 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sanfran_rwood" <MrRedwood@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                            > > The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek
                            > > route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice
                            > > looking cascades along the way!
                            >
                            > Well, yeah.  Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos
                            > of Fish Creek to YouTube.  See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc
                            > and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng

                            I've also uploaded a massive panorama (4863×2570 pixels) of the view from about where Cold Creek tumbles down into the Middle Fork of the San Joaquin, which is the downhill portion of this detour. Cascade Canyon/Fish Creek and the Iva Bell hotsprings are on the other side of the ridge on the left side, heading back east and up. I believe the lat/long is about 37.55254,-119.08931.

                            Note: click on "Original" for the very big pano; in most browsers you can right-click to see just the image.
                            http://yhoo.it/12ZdZes
                            Vista SW from JMT detour
                            --
                            Richard

                          • brucelem12
                            Excellent...thanks! That pano in particular shows quite a dramatic contrast to the JMT section it parallels. It s so easy to underestimate how interestingly
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jun 21 6:01 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Excellent...thanks! That pano in particular shows quite a dramatic contrast to the JMT section it parallels. It's so easy to underestimate how interestingly radical the terrain is on a map.
                              Bruce

                              -------"sanfran_rwood" <MrRedwood@> wrote:
                              Well, yeah. Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos
                              of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc
                              and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng-------------
                              -----I've also uploaded a massive panorama (4863×2570 pixels) of the view from about where Cold Creek tumbles down into the Middle Fork of the San Joaquin, which is the downhill portion of this detour. --------
                              Richard
                            • Robert
                              Nice! Thanks for posting Richard. Looks like some decent swimming holes along there, and I like that! I m actually going to hike a few non-JMT detours next
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jun 21 6:15 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Nice! Thanks for posting Richard. Looks like some decent swimming holes along there, and I like that! I'm actually going to hike a few non-JMT detours next time I do the trail. I am really looking at Goodale Pass as well as I haven't been over it either. Thanks again for posting. I am getting antsy to get out, one week to my first trip out...yay!

                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sanfran_rwood" <MrRedwood@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                > > The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek
                                > > route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice
                                > > looking cascades along the way!
                                >
                                > Well, yeah. Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng
                                > --
                                > Richard
                                >
                              • Chris
                                Robert: Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance. Chris.
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jun 22 11:22 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Robert:

                                  Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance.

                                  Chris.

                                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two.
                                • brucelem12
                                  Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jun 23 6:08 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?

                                    John (Ladd)...I see that you noticed a lesser flow rate in July 2008 when you were there compared to someone's Sept 2009 video you linked.

                                    I found a few photo journals from last year that show it still very appealing...but they did look to be right about mid Aug when that area was finally getting a lot of rainfall.

                                    I'm guessing it won't make that much difference down there around such a major drainage...but thought I'd check since I too am considering it for a very dry July/Aug hike this year.
                                    Bruce

                                    http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=1731667

                                    http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=693649

                                    http://coupleohuckleberries.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/the-hike-out/


                                    --- "Erica" <xericamunsonx@...> wrote:
                                    -----------------I'm working on our itinerary - and I'm finding myself seriously considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs. I'm finding myself completely torn between doing a "pure" JMT hike - and soaking my tired muscles into the night under the Sierra stars. --------------
                                    -------------
                                    ----------Thanks!
                                    Erica
                                  • John Ladd
                                    ... I can t really say this with any certainty. And 2007-08 and 2008-09 were very similar snowpack years, o I don t know that, even if I were right, that adds
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jun 23 7:21 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 6:08 AM, brucelem12 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                      John (Ladd)...I see that you noticed a lesser flow rate in July 2008 when you were there compared to someone's Sept 2009 video you linked.

                                      I can't really say this with any certainty. And 2007-08 and 2008-09 were very similar snowpack years, o I don't know that, even if I were right, that adds much information.

                                      John Curran Ladd
                                      1616 Castro Street
                                      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                      415-648-9279
                                    • Robert
                                      I wish I had an easy answer on that on. They have both seemed more accurate at different times for me over the years. I would say the Harrison Maps look to be
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jun 23 7:31 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I wish I had an easy answer on that on. They have both seemed more accurate at different times for me over the years. I would say the Harrison Maps look to be more accurate in this case after tracing the routes out on another routing system I use. I know this isn't always the case, but generally the PCT will take the most direct route if there is a fairly equal scenic option, ie; The High Trail from Devils Postpile to Thousand Island Lake vs the JMT route. It would surprise me if they took the JMT route here if it were truly longer, but that is only my opinion. Either way, it looks well worth the detour even if it proves to be a touch longer, if you have done the JMT previously. If not, maybe just bite the bullet and hike he short up hill from Cascade Valley to Purple Lake so you don't miss Purple and Virginia Lakes. I always think the view into Tully Hole is nice as well.

                                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cehauser1@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Robert:
                                        >
                                        > Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance.
                                        >
                                        > Chris.
                                        >
                                        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two.
                                        >
                                      • targetdoggmechanic
                                        I think the Harrison Map pack for the JMT is accurate. I don t have a gps but my pace matches what the map says mileage wise. I made it to the goodale pass/JMT
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jun 23 8:32 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I think the Harrison Map pack for the JMT is accurate. I don't have a gps but my pace matches what the map says mileage wise. I made it to the goodale pass/JMT jct above squaw lake in about the same time it took me when I hiked the JMT proper.

                                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I wish I had an easy answer on that on. They have both seemed more accurate at different times for me over the years. I would say the Harrison Maps look to be more accurate in this case after tracing the routes out on another routing system I use. I know this isn't always the case, but generally the PCT will take the most direct route if there is a fairly equal scenic option, ie; The High Trail from Devils Postpile to Thousand Island Lake vs the JMT route. It would surprise me if they took the JMT route here if it were truly longer, but that is only my opinion. Either way, it looks well worth the detour even if it proves to be a touch longer, if you have done the JMT previously. If not, maybe just bite the bullet and hike he short up hill from Cascade Valley to Purple Lake so you don't miss Purple and Virginia Lakes. I always think the view into Tully Hole is nice as well.
                                          >
                                          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cehauser1@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Robert:
                                          > >
                                          > > Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance.
                                          > >
                                          > > Chris.
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two.
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Erica
                                          If anyone does do this route over the summer - I d definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jun 24 8:04 AM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            If anyone does do this route over the summer - I'd definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely shaping up to be quite interesting...

                                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?
                                          • Erica
                                            If anyone does do this route over the summer - I d definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jun 24 9:01 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              If anyone does do this route over the summer - I'd definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely shaping up to be quite interesting...

                                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?
                                            • Erica
                                              If anyone does do this route over the summer - I d definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jun 24 9:01 AM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                If anyone does do this route over the summer - I'd definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely shaping up to be quite interesting...

                                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?
                                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.