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Considering the Iva Bell detour

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  • Erica
    I m working on our itinerary - and I m finding myself seriously considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs. I m finding myself completely torn between
    Message 1 of 30 , Jun 19, 2013
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      I'm working on our itinerary - and I'm finding myself seriously considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs. I'm finding myself completely torn between doing a "pure" JMT hike - and soaking my tired muscles into the night under the Sierra stars.

      A few questions:
      - the JMT Harrison maps of that area includes the Iva Bell, but the trail cuts off a bit (I have the Mono Divide Map on order). Does anyone have the mileage available for this detour?

      - It seems there are 2 good places to re-join the JMT - near Silver Pass (before Lake Virginia and Purple Lake), or heading to VVR and re-joining after VVR. I am debating heading to VVR anyway (but was dreading the hike to it) - would it save significant miles compared to heading back to the JMT - then leaving again for VVR (with no ferry)?

      - I really don't want to miss Lake Virginia or Purple Lake (and I could potentially still see them) - but as an argument to stick to the JMT - is there anything else I'll be missing on the JMT that I should consider?

      - And, lastly, scenery-wise how is that trail to Iva Bell? If it's particularly un-exciting or hot/exposed...that would be a good argument to stick to the JMT.

      Thanks!
      Erica
    • Roleigh Martin
      What about using the hot springs near Red s Meadow -- is that still around, it s been since 2008 when I used it last. I even forget where it is -- is it very
      Message 2 of 30 , Jun 19, 2013
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        What about using the hot springs near Red's Meadow -- is that still around, it's been since 2008 when I used it last.  I even forget where it is -- is it very near to the Backpacker's camp site there?

        -------------------------------------------------
        Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
        _



        On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:22 AM, Erica <xericamunsonx@...> wrote:
         

        I'm working on our itinerary - and I'm finding myself seriously considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs. I'm finding myself completely torn between doing a "pure" JMT hike - and soaking my tired muscles into the night under the Sierra stars.

        A few questions:
        - the JMT Harrison maps of that area includes the Iva Bell, but the trail cuts off a bit (I have the Mono Divide Map on order). Does anyone have the mileage available for this detour?

        - It seems there are 2 good places to re-join the JMT - near Silver Pass (before Lake Virginia and Purple Lake), or heading to VVR and re-joining after VVR. I am debating heading to VVR anyway (but was dreading the hike to it) - would it save significant miles compared to heading back to the JMT - then leaving again for VVR (with no ferry)?

        - I really don't want to miss Lake Virginia or Purple Lake (and I could potentially still see them) - but as an argument to stick to the JMT - is there anything else I'll be missing on the JMT that I should consider?

        - And, lastly, scenery-wise how is that trail to Iva Bell? If it's particularly un-exciting or hot/exposed...that would be a good argument to stick to the JMT.

        Thanks!
        Erica


      • Robert
        I believe the Cascade Valley detour of the JMT tacks on about 5 miles to the trip. I was looking into doing this option myself for the same reason! To me,
        Message 3 of 30 , Jun 19, 2013
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          I believe the 'Cascade Valley' detour of the JMT tacks on about 5 miles to the trip. I was looking into doing this option myself for the same reason! To me, missing Purple Lake is no big deal, especially with all of the downed trees, but Lake Virginia is a spectacular lake. I haven't heard anything about the hot spring showers opening up at Reds Meadow anytime soon. Does anyone know if there are public hot springs to soak in at Reds Meadow? The one downside to intersecting the JMT between Purple Lake and Lake Virginia out of Cascade Valley is the steep climb out of the valley only to drop back down into Tully Hole after Lake Virginia, assuming you are going SOBO.

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
          >
          > What about using the hot springs near Red's Meadow -- is that still around,
          > it's been since 2008 when I used it last. I even forget where it is -- is
          > it very near to the Backpacker's camp site there?
          >
          > -------------------------------------------------
          > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
          > links)<https://plus.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
          > _
          >
          >
          >
          > On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:22 AM, Erica <xericamunsonx@...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > I'm working on our itinerary - and I'm finding myself seriously
          > > considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs. I'm finding myself
          > > completely torn between doing a "pure" JMT hike - and soaking my tired
          > > muscles into the night under the Sierra stars.
          > >
          > > A few questions:
          > > - the JMT Harrison maps of that area includes the Iva Bell, but the trail
          > > cuts off a bit (I have the Mono Divide Map on order). Does anyone have the
          > > mileage available for this detour?
          > >
          > > - It seems there are 2 good places to re-join the JMT - near Silver Pass
          > > (before Lake Virginia and Purple Lake), or heading to VVR and re-joining
          > > after VVR. I am debating heading to VVR anyway (but was dreading the hike
          > > to it) - would it save significant miles compared to heading back to the
          > > JMT - then leaving again for VVR (with no ferry)?
          > >
          > > - I really don't want to miss Lake Virginia or Purple Lake (and I could
          > > potentially still see them) - but as an argument to stick to the JMT - is
          > > there anything else I'll be missing on the JMT that I should consider?
          > >
          > > - And, lastly, scenery-wise how is that trail to Iva Bell? If it's
          > > particularly un-exciting or hot/exposed...that would be a good argument to
          > > stick to the JMT.
          > >
          > > Thanks!
          > > Erica
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • John
          Erica I find the stretch from Upper Crater to Duck Creek to be one of the less enchanting sections of the JMT. Virginia Lake is a must see IMO. JDWalk the Sky:
          Message 4 of 30 , Jun 19, 2013
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            Erica

            I find the stretch from Upper Crater to Duck Creek to be one of the less enchanting sections of the JMT. Virginia Lake is a must see IMO.

            JD
            Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail


            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Erica" wrote:
            >
            > I'm working on our itinerary - and I'm finding myself seriously considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs. I'm finding myself completely torn between doing a "pure" JMT hike - and soaking my tired muscles into the night under the Sierra stars.
            >
            > A few questions:
            > - the JMT Harrison maps of that area includes the Iva Bell, but the trail cuts off a bit (I have the Mono Divide Map on order). Does anyone have the mileage available for this detour?
            >
            > - It seems there are 2 good places to re-join the JMT - near Silver Pass (before Lake Virginia and Purple Lake), or heading to VVR and re-joining after VVR. I am debating heading to VVR anyway (but was dreading the hike to it) - would it save significant miles compared to heading back to the JMT - then leaving again for VVR (with no ferry)?
            >
            > - I really don't want to miss Lake Virginia or Purple Lake (and I could potentially still see them) - but as an argument to stick to the JMT - is there anything else I'll be missing on the JMT that I should consider?
            >
            > - And, lastly, scenery-wise how is that trail to Iva Bell? If it's particularly un-exciting or hot/exposed...that would be a good argument to stick to the JMT.
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Erica
            >
          • Robert
            John, I m glad I m not the only one that feels that way about that stretch! I dread it until I see Lake Virginia, then it s all good!
            Message 5 of 30 , Jun 19, 2013
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              John, I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way about that stretch! I dread it until I see Lake Virginia, then it's all good!

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
              >
              > Erica
              > I find the stretch from Upper Crater to Duck Creek to be one of the less
              > enchanting sections of the JMT. Virginia Lake is a must see IMO.
              > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
              > <http://www.johndittli.com>
              >
              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Erica" wrote:
              > >
              > > I'm working on our itinerary - and I'm finding myself seriously
              > considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs. I'm finding myself
              > completely torn between doing a "pure" JMT hike - and soaking my tired
              > muscles into the night under the Sierra stars.
              > >
              > > A few questions:
              > > - the JMT Harrison maps of that area includes the Iva Bell, but the
              > trail cuts off a bit (I have the Mono Divide Map on order). Does anyone
              > have the mileage available for this detour?
              > >
              > > - It seems there are 2 good places to re-join the JMT - near Silver
              > Pass (before Lake Virginia and Purple Lake), or heading to VVR and
              > re-joining after VVR. I am debating heading to VVR anyway (but was
              > dreading the hike to it) - would it save significant miles compared to
              > heading back to the JMT - then leaving again for VVR (with no ferry)?
              > >
              > > - I really don't want to miss Lake Virginia or Purple Lake (and I
              > could potentially still see them) - but as an argument to stick to the
              > JMT - is there anything else I'll be missing on the JMT that I should
              > consider?
              > >
              > > - And, lastly, scenery-wise how is that trail to Iva Bell? If it's
              > particularly un-exciting or hot/exposed...that would be a good argument
              > to stick to the JMT.
              > >
              > > Thanks!
              > > Erica
              > >
              >
            • targetdoggmechanic
              Iva Bell is definitely worth the trip. It is 12 miles, the first 9 all downhill or flat from Reds. Great scenic vistas, IMO better than the JMT proper.
              Message 6 of 30 , Jun 19, 2013
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                Iva Bell is definitely worth the trip. It is 12 miles, the first 9 all downhill or flat from Reds. Great scenic vistas, IMO better than the JMT proper. Purple lake isnt that big of a deal, Virginia is definitely a tough one to miss though. My last JMT I did a detour at Reds to Iva Bell, and rejoined just below Silver Pass. It allowed me to see Lake of the Lone Indian, which was a great lake to see. To get there, take the Rainbow Falls trail and continue to Fish Creek, then cross the Bridge at Island Crossing, head uphill along Fish Creek for 3 miles, Cascade Valley Junction, cross Fish Creek on a log. Iva Bell and its nice campsites are just up the hill and all around. Look for the wet grassy meadow above the house sized boulder, there are 3 pools there and more up the hill a ways. A great way to be under the stars and comfortably warm clear pools, no sulfer odor. You can continue up the cascade valley trail to Purple Lake and Virginia, but having doing the JMT 2 times before, I rejoined by following Fish Creek trail, past lake of the Lone Indian, and Silver Pass is right there. It cuts off 2 miles of the JMT doing this route. You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route.
              • Chris
                This is the route I m taking... skipping Virginia Lake and Purple Lake in favor of the Iva Bell hot springs, as TargetDogg describes below. The entire route
                Message 7 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                  This is the route I'm taking... skipping Virginia Lake and Purple Lake in favor of the Iva Bell hot springs, as TargetDogg describes below. The entire route is in the Tom Harrison JMT map pack (split between pages 8 and 9). Elevation change is less than what you climb/descend on the JMT, and distance looks like it is about the same (TargetDogg says it is 2 miles shorter). But even if it was longer and harder, I'd still be doing it... I'm a sucker for hot springs.

                  Cheers!

                  Chris.



                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Iva Bell is definitely worth the trip. It is 12 miles, the first 9 all downhill or flat from Reds. Great scenic vistas, IMO better than the JMT proper. Purple lake isnt that big of a deal, Virginia is definitely a tough one to miss though. My last JMT I did a detour at Reds to Iva Bell, and rejoined just below Silver Pass. It allowed me to see Lake of the Lone Indian, which was a great lake to see. To get there, take the Rainbow Falls trail and continue to Fish Creek, then cross the Bridge at Island Crossing, head uphill along Fish Creek for 3 miles, Cascade Valley Junction, cross Fish Creek on a log. Iva Bell and its nice campsites are just up the hill and all around. Look for the wet grassy meadow above the house sized boulder, there are 3 pools there and more up the hill a ways. A great way to be under the stars and comfortably warm clear pools, no sulfer odor. You can continue up the cascade valley trail to Purple Lake and Virginia, but having doing the JMT 2 times before, I rejoined by following Fish Creek trail, past lake of the Lone Indian, and Silver Pass is right there. It cuts off 2 miles of the JMT doing this route. You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route.
                  >
                • sanfran_rwood
                  ... As a few other folks have noted, quite a bit of the JMT you d be skipping is (for SoBo ers) possibly the most boring and tedious. It doesn t get nice again
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Erica" <xericamunsonx@...> wrote:
                    > I'm working on our itinerary - and I'm finding myself
                    > seriously considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs.
                    > I'm finding myself completely torn between doing a "pure"
                    > JMT hike - and soaking my tired muscles into the night under
                    > the Sierra stars.

                    As a few other folks have noted, quite a bit of the JMT you'd be skipping is (for SoBo'ers) possibly the most boring and tedious. It doesn't get nice again until if levels out and suddenly your start seeing those vistas again -- coincidentally enough, looking down into Cascade Valley towards Fish Creek (at about 37.55227,-119.03026). The portion after that would be sad to miss, but the canyons you'd be replacing it with are also great.


                    > - It seems there are 2 good places to re-join the JMT - near Silver Pass (before Lake Virginia and Purple Lake), or heading to VVR and re-joining after VVR. I am debating heading to VVR anyway (but was dreading the hike to it) - would it save significant miles compared to heading back to the JMT - then leaving again for VVR (with no ferry)?

                    There are actually three; the first is a steep climb out of Cascade Valley to Purple Lake; the second is to continue up Cascade Valley until its end pushes you up to the JMT just after Tulley Hole but before the Silver Pass ascent, or the third, just skipping it all and heading to VVR.

                    Frankly, I wouldn't recommend going straight around to VVR because you'd miss Silver Pass (the first of the series of passes that provide so much of your bragging rights), with gorgeous Squaw Lake, and you'd also miss the wonderful descent down to Quail Meadow.

                    The way I came out of Cascade Valley the time I did it skips Purple Lake and Lake Virginia and rejoins the JMT at the low point after Tully Hole. That's the easy way.

                    If you really want the nice lakes back into your hike, there is a trail shown climbing out of Cascade Valley to Purple Lake. The portion of Fish Creek after that isn't anything special, but that climb looks tough. If I'm reading right, it looks like you'll climb from 8366 to 9900 feet or so. That'll undo a lot of the soaking you'd done at Ive Bell...

                    > - I really don't want to miss Lake Virginia or Purple Lake
                    > (and I could potentially still see them) - but as an argument
                    > to stick to the JMT - is there anything else I'll be missing
                    > on the JMT that I should consider?

                    Although those lakes were very nice, the more important thing you'd be missing is Silver Pass.

                    > - And, lastly, scenery-wise how is that trail to Iva Bell? If it's particularly un-exciting or hot/exposed...that would be a good argument to stick to the JMT.

                    The opposite: the climb out of Red's Meadow is un-exciting, and (depending on the weather) hot and dry. It's under a thin conifer canopy that eliminates views without providing the ferny goodness of heavy forest. Much of your alternate is very exposed, so it'll be a critical sunscreen portion, but with great vistas and often close to streams or rivers.

                    After you start climbing again (and you'll have descended to 6350 feet or so, which you'll have to pay back), you'll be in a classic steep-sided Sierra river canyon. The wet crossings of Fish Creek shouldn't be any trouble at all.

                    (Say "hi" and "thank you" to the trail workers based at Island Crossing if they're still there.)
                    --
                    Richard
                  • Barbara Karagosian
                    When you did this, where did you cross the river? When we did it (one year with Roleigh, as a detour) the trail from purple Lake down into the Cascade valley
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                      When you did this, where did you cross the river?  When we did it (one year with Roleigh, as a detour) the trail from purple Lake down into the Cascade valley ended at the river where there was a large downed tree that went 3/4 of the way across.  We opted to wade, then climb over the end of the tree then climb up the bank.  Im wondering if there was an easier way that we missed.

                      Gorgeous campsites on granite outcroppings not far up from there.  Lots and lots of mosquitoes along the river itself.

                      Barbara


                      The way I came out of Cascade Valley the time I did it skips Purple Lake and Lake Virginia and rejoins the JMT at the low point after Tully Hole. That's the easy way.

                       

                    • Robert
                      What am I missing here? I re-did the mileage numbers using the cut-off to Reds Meadow Store as a starting point, and the junction that is 1.1 miles from Tully
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                        What am I missing here? I re-did the mileage numbers using the cut-off to Reds Meadow Store as a starting point, and the junction that is 1.1 miles from Tully Hole as the re-joining point of the JMT and I get 23 miles for the Cascade Valley/Iva Bell detour and only 18.9 miles for the JMT portion. I am using the Tom Harrison maps for mileage.

                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Iva Bell is definitely worth the trip. It is 12 miles, the first 9 all downhill or flat from Reds. Great scenic vistas, IMO better than the JMT proper. Purple lake isnt that big of a deal, Virginia is definitely a tough one to miss though. My last JMT I did a detour at Reds to Iva Bell, and rejoined just below Silver Pass. It allowed me to see Lake of the Lone Indian, which was a great lake to see. To get there, take the Rainbow Falls trail and continue to Fish Creek, then cross the Bridge at Island Crossing, head uphill along Fish Creek for 3 miles, Cascade Valley Junction, cross Fish Creek on a log. Iva Bell and its nice campsites are just up the hill and all around. Look for the wet grassy meadow above the house sized boulder, there are 3 pools there and more up the hill a ways. A great way to be under the stars and comfortably warm clear pools, no sulfer odor. You can continue up the cascade valley trail to Purple Lake and Virginia, but having doing the JMT 2 times before, I rejoined by following Fish Creek trail, past lake of the Lone Indian, and Silver Pass is right there. It cuts off 2 miles of the JMT doing this route. You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route.
                        >
                      • sanfran_rwood
                        ... I was heading uphill from Island Crossing and Iva Bell, and the first crossing of Fish Creek is after going over the hump that the springs come out of.
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Karagosian wrote:
                          > When you did this, where did you cross the river?  When we did
                          > it (one year with Roleigh, as a detour) the trail from Purple Lake
                          > down into the Cascade valley ended at the river where there was
                          > a large downed tree that went 3/4 of the way across.  We opted
                          > to wade, then climb over the end of the tree then climb up the
                          > bank.  I'm wondering if there was an easier way that we missed.

                          I was heading uphill from Island Crossing and Iva Bell, and the first crossing of Fish Creek is after going over the hump that the springs come out of.  Oddly enough, it's called "Second Crossing" on the old topo maps (Island Crossing is probably the "first"); it's at about 37.53345,-119.01129.
                           
                          Fish Creek at that point is wide and pretty shallow. I was there in September of the heavy rain year of 2011, and it was about thirty feet wide with a maximum depth of maybe two feet.  Plenty of water, but a smooth crossing.  It could get tough early in a wet year, I suspect.

                          I've added a photo of the mid-September crossing to the Misc photo album:
                          Fish Creek, Second Crossing
                          Sorry it isn't too well composed; it was raining at the time. The trail continues upcanyon at that clearing across the stream.

                          Coming down from Purple Lake, that is the necessary crossing of Fish Creek if you headed down the canyon.

                          If you went over Fish Creek right where the Purple Lake trail comes down, it sounds like you climbed out of Cascade Valley at Minnow Creek. Don't know why -- Fish Creek is gorgeous.

                          Anyone continuing up Cascade Valley past the Purple Lake cutoff and to the junction with JMT will cross a much smaller Fish Creek twice more (I think) near the end of the valley.
                          --
                          Richard
                        • brucelem12
                          My Tom Harrison maps (maybe an older version or something) show the full trail to Iva Bell. They indicate: Reds store to Fish Creek crossing = approx. 9.6
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                            My Tom Harrison maps (maybe an older version or something) show the full trail to Iva Bell. They indicate:

                            Reds store to Fish Creek crossing = approx. 9.6 miles,
                            Fish Creek Crossing to Iva Bell Hot Springs (IVB) = 3.5,

                            IVB to Purple Lake Trail by upper trail= 6.4 another 3.1 to Purple Lake another 3.5 to join JMT right near JMT Fish Creek crossing,

                            IVB to Purple Lake Trail by lower trail = 5.8 another 4.4 to Purple lake another 5.7 to join JMT between Squaw/Chief Lakes (passing by Lake of the Lone Indian and Goodale Pass junction 0.4 before hitting JMT.

                            Mileage on different maps always seems to vary a fair amount, so I wouldn't take these as guaranteed.
                            John Ladd posted a nice map/description w/ photo/video links in a previous post. I think his mileage was different (and based on actual experience).

                            JMT south from Reds Mdw to the Red Cones is dry, open, sandy uphill in burned tree stumps from a fire in 92, often noted by many as their least favorite 4 miles of the trail. Can have beautiful wildflowers though. The next 7.5 From the Cones to Ducks Creek is probably the sandiest of the whole trail by my recollection, and waterless last year as of July 28. Some nice views but still probably close to the top of my own personal least favorite sections. Perhaps somewhat tediously repetitive by the outsize standards of the JMT where it's typical to find stunningly dramatic variation from one mile to the next over much of the route. :) I actually thought Purple Lake was particularly lovely, but it is more the sedate tree rimmed type, rather than the more dramatic open sky w/ reflected rim of crags type. Here's a pic in "Photos" "Miscellaneous":

                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/photos/album/1468624385/pic/431755418/view

                            I haven't been to IVB either, so appreciate all the great info from everyone!
                            Bruce

                            --- "Erica" <xericamunsonx@...> wrote:
                            > ----- the JMT Harrison maps of that area includes the Iva Bell, but the trail cuts off a bit (I have the Mono Divide Map on order). Does anyone have the mileage available for this detour?-------
                          • Robert
                            I guess what I am saying is that if you like hot springs and some different scenery, than the detour may be worth it, but from what I can see, it is not a
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                              I guess what I am saying is that if you like hot springs and some different scenery, than the detour may be worth it, but from what I can see, it is not a short-cut when compared to the JMT. It looks to be an additional 4.1 miles for the total detour from Reds to the Jct between Tully Hole and Squaw Lake. I still would like to do the re-route one of these days, FWIW.

                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > My Tom Harrison maps (maybe an older version or something) show the full trail to Iva Bell. They indicate:
                              >
                              > Reds store to Fish Creek crossing = approx. 9.6 miles,
                              > Fish Creek Crossing to Iva Bell Hot Springs (IVB) = 3.5,
                              >
                              > IVB to Purple Lake Trail by upper trail= 6.4 another 3.1 to Purple Lake another 3.5 to join JMT right near JMT Fish Creek crossing,
                              >
                              > IVB to Purple Lake Trail by lower trail = 5.8 another 4.4 to Purple lake another 5.7 to join JMT between Squaw/Chief Lakes (passing by Lake of the Lone Indian and Goodale Pass junction 0.4 before hitting JMT.
                              >
                              > Mileage on different maps always seems to vary a fair amount, so I wouldn't take these as guaranteed.
                              > John Ladd posted a nice map/description w/ photo/video links in a previous post. I think his mileage was different (and based on actual experience).
                              >
                              > JMT south from Reds Mdw to the Red Cones is dry, open, sandy uphill in burned tree stumps from a fire in 92, often noted by many as their least favorite 4 miles of the trail. Can have beautiful wildflowers though. The next 7.5 From the Cones to Ducks Creek is probably the sandiest of the whole trail by my recollection, and waterless last year as of July 28. Some nice views but still probably close to the top of my own personal least favorite sections. Perhaps somewhat tediously repetitive by the outsize standards of the JMT where it's typical to find stunningly dramatic variation from one mile to the next over much of the route. :) I actually thought Purple Lake was particularly lovely, but it is more the sedate tree rimmed type, rather than the more dramatic open sky w/ reflected rim of crags type. Here's a pic in "Photos" "Miscellaneous":
                              >
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/photos/album/1468624385/pic/431755418/view
                              >
                              > I haven't been to IVB either, so appreciate all the great info from everyone!
                              > Bruce
                              >
                              > --- "Erica" <xericamunsonx@> wrote:
                              > > ----- the JMT Harrison maps of that area includes the Iva Bell, but the trail cuts off a bit (I have the Mono Divide Map on order). Does anyone have the mileage available for this detour?-------
                              >
                            • Erica
                              Thank you all for the awesome info - it s perfect. I m feeling pretty sure that the detour will be a good decision - and actually probably the steep hike up
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                                Thank you all for the awesome info - it's perfect. I'm feeling pretty sure that the detour will be a good decision - and actually probably the steep hike up cascade valley might be the best option, as we won't miss Lake Virginia or Purple Lake. And I suppose, if come that day, we're feeling particularly lazy we can skip it and take the easier route.

                                Curious if anyone has done the hike over Goodale Pass to get to VVR? I'm leaning away from this option because so much of the trail would be skipped, but would still be curious to hear if anyone else has gone this route...


                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Erica" <xericamunsonx@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I'm working on our itinerary - and I'm finding myself seriously considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs. I'm finding myself completely torn between doing a "pure" JMT hike - and soaking my tired muscles into the night under the Sierra stars.
                                >
                                > A few questions:
                                > - the JMT Harrison maps of that area includes the Iva Bell, but the trail cuts off a bit (I have the Mono Divide Map on order). Does anyone have the mileage available for this detour?
                                >
                                > - It seems there are 2 good places to re-join the JMT - near Silver Pass (before Lake Virginia and Purple Lake), or heading to VVR and re-joining after VVR. I am debating heading to VVR anyway (but was dreading the hike to it) - would it save significant miles compared to heading back to the JMT - then leaving again for VVR (with no ferry)?
                                >
                                > - I really don't want to miss Lake Virginia or Purple Lake (and I could potentially still see them) - but as an argument to stick to the JMT - is there anything else I'll be missing on the JMT that I should consider?
                                >
                                > - And, lastly, scenery-wise how is that trail to Iva Bell? If it's particularly un-exciting or hot/exposed...that would be a good argument to stick to the JMT.
                                >
                                > Thanks!
                                > Erica
                                >
                              • robert shattuck
                                You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I ve never been that route. Just a few notes––for the first time, last year, I went over
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                                  "You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route." 

                                  Just a few notes––for the first time, last year, I went over Goodale––good for a change, but I found the signage a bit confusing once I got down to within maybe a mile of the VVR. 

                                  I got to a junction, went to the left, came back, went to the right . . . what was I missing? Luckily, having been to VVR a few times and knowing what to look for I just headed out onto the dry lake bed and worked my way towards the dry shores of the VVR . . . . if you've never been there though, you might possibly be in a bit of a fix, trying to figure it out. 

                                  BOB

                                  http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480



                                • John Ladd
                                  On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:55 AM, brucelem12 ... previous post. I think his mileage was different (and based on actual experience).
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                                    On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 6:55 AM, brucelem12 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > ... John Ladd posted a nice map/description w/ photo/video links in a previous post. I think his mileage was different (and based on actual experience).

                                    The mileage I gave was just taken from a map, also. So I can't make any great claims for it.

                                    I did a map of my route, if it's of any use

                                    http://goo.gl/maps/vVCq9

                                    Make sure to switch the display to Terrain View.

                                    My prior post with some other links is here

                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/message/15975

                                    And the same thread has some other information about the Springs

                                    John Curran Ladd
                                    1616 Castro Street
                                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                    415-648-9279
                                  • targetdoggmechanic
                                    I was adding up the portion to where it joints the jmt at silver pass, just past squaw lake at the goodale pass jct.
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                                      I was adding up the portion to where it joints the jmt at silver pass, just past squaw lake at the goodale pass jct.

                                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > What am I missing here? I re-did the mileage numbers using the cut-off to Reds Meadow Store as a starting point, and the junction that is 1.1 miles from Tully Hole as the re-joining point of the JMT and I get 23 miles for the Cascade Valley/Iva Bell detour and only 18.9 miles for the JMT portion. I am using the Tom Harrison maps for mileage.
                                      >
                                      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Iva Bell is definitely worth the trip. It is 12 miles, the first 9 all downhill or flat from Reds. Great scenic vistas, IMO better than the JMT proper. Purple lake isnt that big of a deal, Virginia is definitely a tough one to miss though. My last JMT I did a detour at Reds to Iva Bell, and rejoined just below Silver Pass. It allowed me to see Lake of the Lone Indian, which was a great lake to see. To get there, take the Rainbow Falls trail and continue to Fish Creek, then cross the Bridge at Island Crossing, head uphill along Fish Creek for 3 miles, Cascade Valley Junction, cross Fish Creek on a log. Iva Bell and its nice campsites are just up the hill and all around. Look for the wet grassy meadow above the house sized boulder, there are 3 pools there and more up the hill a ways. A great way to be under the stars and comfortably warm clear pools, no sulfer odor. You can continue up the cascade valley trail to Purple Lake and Virginia, but having doing the JMT 2 times before, I rejoined by following Fish Creek trail, past lake of the Lone Indian, and Silver Pass is right there. It cuts off 2 miles of the JMT doing this route. You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route.
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Robert
                                      Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jun 20, 2013
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                                        Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two. Going of my software the mileage for the detour through Cascade Valley to just above Squaw Lake is shorter than the JMT by 1.4 miles and 817' less elevation gain overall, a pretty good route. When I add up the numbers with the Harrison maps, it shows that route a couple miles longer?

                                        The detour through Cascade Valley to between Tully Hole and Squaw Lake favors well with the software well. It shows that route as 18.6 miles with 4437' of elevation gain, whereas the Harrison maps show the same section as 23 miles.

                                        The stretch from the Fish Creek Trail to Purple Lake is 3.1 on the Harrison maps, but 2.2 miles on the software with 1568' of elevation gain.

                                        The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice looking cascades along the way!

                                        Thanks for the follow-up!

                                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I was adding up the portion to where it joints the jmt at silver pass, just past squaw lake at the goodale pass jct.
                                        >
                                        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > What am I missing here? I re-did the mileage numbers using the cut-off to Reds Meadow Store as a starting point, and the junction that is 1.1 miles from Tully Hole as the re-joining point of the JMT and I get 23 miles for the Cascade Valley/Iva Bell detour and only 18.9 miles for the JMT portion. I am using the Tom Harrison maps for mileage.
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "targetdoggmechanic" <targetdoggmechanic@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Iva Bell is definitely worth the trip. It is 12 miles, the first 9 all downhill or flat from Reds. Great scenic vistas, IMO better than the JMT proper. Purple lake isnt that big of a deal, Virginia is definitely a tough one to miss though. My last JMT I did a detour at Reds to Iva Bell, and rejoined just below Silver Pass. It allowed me to see Lake of the Lone Indian, which was a great lake to see. To get there, take the Rainbow Falls trail and continue to Fish Creek, then cross the Bridge at Island Crossing, head uphill along Fish Creek for 3 miles, Cascade Valley Junction, cross Fish Creek on a log. Iva Bell and its nice campsites are just up the hill and all around. Look for the wet grassy meadow above the house sized boulder, there are 3 pools there and more up the hill a ways. A great way to be under the stars and comfortably warm clear pools, no sulfer odor. You can continue up the cascade valley trail to Purple Lake and Virginia, but having doing the JMT 2 times before, I rejoined by following Fish Creek trail, past lake of the Lone Indian, and Silver Pass is right there. It cuts off 2 miles of the JMT doing this route. You can also get right to VVR if you go over Goodale Pass, but I've never been that route.
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • sanfran_rwood
                                        ... Well, yeah. Since you insist, I ve uploaded two quick videos of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng --
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jun 21, 2013
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                                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                          > The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek
                                          > route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice
                                          > looking cascades along the way!

                                          Well, yeah. Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng
                                          --
                                          Richard
                                        • sanfran_rwood
                                          ... I ve also uploaded a massive panorama (4863×2570 pixels) of the view from about where Cold Creek tumbles down into the Middle Fork of the San Joaquin,
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jun 21, 2013
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                                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sanfran_rwood" <MrRedwood@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                            > > The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek
                                            > > route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice
                                            > > looking cascades along the way!
                                            >
                                            > Well, yeah.  Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos
                                            > of Fish Creek to YouTube.  See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc
                                            > and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng

                                            I've also uploaded a massive panorama (4863×2570 pixels) of the view from about where Cold Creek tumbles down into the Middle Fork of the San Joaquin, which is the downhill portion of this detour. Cascade Canyon/Fish Creek and the Iva Bell hotsprings are on the other side of the ridge on the left side, heading back east and up. I believe the lat/long is about 37.55254,-119.08931.

                                            Note: click on "Original" for the very big pano; in most browsers you can right-click to see just the image.
                                            http://yhoo.it/12ZdZes
                                            Vista SW from JMT detour
                                            --
                                            Richard

                                          • brucelem12
                                            Excellent...thanks! That pano in particular shows quite a dramatic contrast to the JMT section it parallels. It s so easy to underestimate how interestingly
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jun 21, 2013
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                                              Excellent...thanks! That pano in particular shows quite a dramatic contrast to the JMT section it parallels. It's so easy to underestimate how interestingly radical the terrain is on a map.
                                              Bruce

                                              -------"sanfran_rwood" <MrRedwood@> wrote:
                                              Well, yeah. Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos
                                              of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc
                                              and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng-------------
                                              -----I've also uploaded a massive panorama (4863×2570 pixels) of the view from about where Cold Creek tumbles down into the Middle Fork of the San Joaquin, which is the downhill portion of this detour. --------
                                              Richard
                                            • Robert
                                              Nice! Thanks for posting Richard. Looks like some decent swimming holes along there, and I like that! I m actually going to hike a few non-JMT detours next
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jun 21, 2013
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                                                Nice! Thanks for posting Richard. Looks like some decent swimming holes along there, and I like that! I'm actually going to hike a few non-JMT detours next time I do the trail. I am really looking at Goodale Pass as well as I haven't been over it either. Thanks again for posting. I am getting antsy to get out, one week to my first trip out...yay!

                                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sanfran_rwood" <MrRedwood@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                                > > The photos that I have seen of the routes favor the Fish Creek
                                                > > route to below Tully Hole. It looks like there are some nice
                                                > > looking cascades along the way!
                                                >
                                                > Well, yeah. Since you insist, I've uploaded two quick videos of Fish Creek to YouTube. See http://youtu.be/RT7NMfiekrc and http://youtu.be/lsjf-5jLPng
                                                > --
                                                > Richard
                                                >
                                              • Chris
                                                Robert: Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance. Chris.
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jun 22, 2013
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                                                  Robert:

                                                  Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance.

                                                  Chris.

                                                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two.
                                                • brucelem12
                                                  Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jun 23, 2013
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                                                    Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?

                                                    John (Ladd)...I see that you noticed a lesser flow rate in July 2008 when you were there compared to someone's Sept 2009 video you linked.

                                                    I found a few photo journals from last year that show it still very appealing...but they did look to be right about mid Aug when that area was finally getting a lot of rainfall.

                                                    I'm guessing it won't make that much difference down there around such a major drainage...but thought I'd check since I too am considering it for a very dry July/Aug hike this year.
                                                    Bruce

                                                    http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=1731667

                                                    http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=693649

                                                    http://coupleohuckleberries.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/the-hike-out/


                                                    --- "Erica" <xericamunsonx@...> wrote:
                                                    -----------------I'm working on our itinerary - and I'm finding myself seriously considering the detour to Iva Bell Hot Springs. I'm finding myself completely torn between doing a "pure" JMT hike - and soaking my tired muscles into the night under the Sierra stars. --------------
                                                    -------------
                                                    ----------Thanks!
                                                    Erica
                                                  • John Ladd
                                                    ... I can t really say this with any certainty. And 2007-08 and 2008-09 were very similar snowpack years, o I don t know that, even if I were right, that adds
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jun 23, 2013
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                                                      On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 6:08 AM, brucelem12 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                                      John (Ladd)...I see that you noticed a lesser flow rate in July 2008 when you were there compared to someone's Sept 2009 video you linked.

                                                      I can't really say this with any certainty. And 2007-08 and 2008-09 were very similar snowpack years, o I don't know that, even if I were right, that adds much information.

                                                      John Curran Ladd
                                                      1616 Castro Street
                                                      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                                      415-648-9279
                                                    • Robert
                                                      I wish I had an easy answer on that on. They have both seemed more accurate at different times for me over the years. I would say the Harrison Maps look to be
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Jun 23, 2013
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                                                        I wish I had an easy answer on that on. They have both seemed more accurate at different times for me over the years. I would say the Harrison Maps look to be more accurate in this case after tracing the routes out on another routing system I use. I know this isn't always the case, but generally the PCT will take the most direct route if there is a fairly equal scenic option, ie; The High Trail from Devils Postpile to Thousand Island Lake vs the JMT route. It would surprise me if they took the JMT route here if it were truly longer, but that is only my opinion. Either way, it looks well worth the detour even if it proves to be a touch longer, if you have done the JMT previously. If not, maybe just bite the bullet and hike he short up hill from Cascade Valley to Purple Lake so you don't miss Purple and Virginia Lakes. I always think the view into Tully Hole is nice as well.

                                                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cehauser1@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Robert:
                                                        >
                                                        > Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance.
                                                        >
                                                        > Chris.
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two.
                                                        >
                                                      • targetdoggmechanic
                                                        I think the Harrison Map pack for the JMT is accurate. I don t have a gps but my pace matches what the map says mileage wise. I made it to the goodale pass/JMT
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Jun 23, 2013
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                                                          I think the Harrison Map pack for the JMT is accurate. I don't have a gps but my pace matches what the map says mileage wise. I made it to the goodale pass/JMT jct above squaw lake in about the same time it took me when I hiked the JMT proper.

                                                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > I wish I had an easy answer on that on. They have both seemed more accurate at different times for me over the years. I would say the Harrison Maps look to be more accurate in this case after tracing the routes out on another routing system I use. I know this isn't always the case, but generally the PCT will take the most direct route if there is a fairly equal scenic option, ie; The High Trail from Devils Postpile to Thousand Island Lake vs the JMT route. It would surprise me if they took the JMT route here if it were truly longer, but that is only my opinion. Either way, it looks well worth the detour even if it proves to be a touch longer, if you have done the JMT previously. If not, maybe just bite the bullet and hike he short up hill from Cascade Valley to Purple Lake so you don't miss Purple and Virginia Lakes. I always think the view into Tully Hole is nice as well.
                                                          >
                                                          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cehauser1@> wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Robert:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Which of those two maps do you trust more? Seems like a really big discrepancy... 5 miles difference, out of about 20 mile distance.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Chris.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Aw ha! I have done some calculations on the detour options with my Mountain Images, Sierra Nevada hiking software and the Harrison maps, and there is discrepancies between the two.
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                        • Erica
                                                          If anyone does do this route over the summer - I d definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Jun 24, 2013
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                                                            If anyone does do this route over the summer - I'd definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely shaping up to be quite interesting...

                                                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?
                                                          • Erica
                                                            If anyone does do this route over the summer - I d definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Jun 24, 2013
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                                                              If anyone does do this route over the summer - I'd definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely shaping up to be quite interesting...

                                                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?
                                                            • Erica
                                                              If anyone does do this route over the summer - I d definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Jun 24, 2013
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                                                                If anyone does do this route over the summer - I'd definitely love a report on the water levels in that area. Water planning for this Sept is definitely shaping up to be quite interesting...

                                                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, brucelem12 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > Did anyone hike to Iva Bell Hot Springs last summer or a similarly extreme dry summer? Just wondering how diminished the falls and/or pools are in that case since this year looks likely to be similar or even drier?
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