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Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: Shorty Lovelace trapper Cabin GPS Fixes

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  • Ned Tibbits
    I’m trying to pinpoint the locations of each of Shorty’s cabins on my GPS unit, but I can’t seem to find a Datum that works in both North and East. There
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 18, 2013
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      I’m trying to pinpoint the locations of each of Shorty’s cabins on my GPS unit, but I can’t seem to find a Datum that works in both North and East. There is, also, no way right at the moment that any of his cabins can be at the 40-minute, north latitude.
       
      For example, I show that the Gardiner Basin cabin is at N36-49-28 x W118-30-05 (approx.) and not N40-76-34 x E3-66-22.
       
      What am I doing wrong, here? (I am used to working within UTM format and not lat/long)
       
       
      Ned Tibbits, Director
      Mountain Education
      www.mountaineducation.org
       
      Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 3:55 PM
      Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Shorty Lovelace trapper Cabin GPS Fixes
       
       

      There is another important attachment to the application, that contains photos and pieces of NG maps showing the exact location of the cabins! Here is the link:

      http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Photos/78000293.pdf

      --- In mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com, "krishna9012" <krishna9012@...> wrote:

      >
      > This is what I
      found from an application made to the National Register of Historical places to recognize Shorty's cabins. One should be able to find the GPS fix from the N and E coordinates. Here is the info.
      >
      > Source:
      href="http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Text/78000293.pdf">http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Text/78000293.pdf
      >
      > Woods Creek Crossing ;' Zone 11
      > N 40-81-630
      > E
      3-72-270
      > Vidette Meadow Zone,11
      > N 40-68-250
      > E
      3-74-930
      > fit-0
      > Cloud Canyon *]• Zone 11
      > N
      40-56-990
      > E 3-62-980
      > Granite Pass 1 Zone 11,
      > N
      40-83-780
      > E 3-56-960
      > Garimer Basin Zone 11
      > N 40-76-340 E
      3-66-220
      > ITEM NUMBER
      > 1Q PAGE 2
      > ,
      > Bubbs Creek ];
      Zone 11
      > N 40-71-330
      > E 3-63-40
      > Sphinx Creek ; Zone 11
      ^
      > N 40-69-660
      > E 3-64-i380
      > i/ A'rt
      > Crowley Canyon
      Zone 11
      > N 40-62-990 E 3-49-;
      > Williams Meadow Zone 11
      > N
      40-67^430
      > E 3-49-390
      >
      > --- In
      href="mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com">mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Anybody have a GPS
      fix on any of his cabins?
      > >
      > > John Curran Ladd
      > > 1616 Castro Street
      > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
      > >
      415-648-9279
      > >
      > >
      > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at
      9:15 PM, John <johndittli@> wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      **
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Shorty was a trapper
      ...
      > > >
      > >
      >

    • krishna9012
      Ned: If it is in ddmmssN and dddmmssE format, where dd in degrees, mm in minutes and ss in seconds, it would be easy to convert into GPS fix. I am struggling
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 19, 2013
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        Ned:

        If it is in ddmmssN and dddmmssE format, where dd in degrees, mm in minutes and ss in seconds, it would be easy to convert into GPS fix. I am struggling with the Vidette meadow cabin coords. It may be a lot easier to just look at the old map enclosed at the end of the photos and identify the location in the new NG map. Thats what I am doing for the Woods Ck and Vidette meadow cabins.

        Krishna

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Ned Tibbits" <ned@...> wrote:
        >
        > I’m trying to pinpoint the locations of each of Shorty’s cabins on my GPS unit, but I can’t seem to find a Datum that works in both North and East. There is, also, no way right at the moment that any of his cabins can be at the 40-minute, north latitude.
        >
        > For example, I show that the Gardiner Basin cabin is at N36-49-28 x W118-30-05 (approx.) and not N40-76-34 x E3-66-22.
        >
        > What am I doing wrong, here? (I am used to working within UTM format and not lat/long)
        >
        >
        > Ned Tibbits, Director
        > Mountain Education
        > www.mountaineducation.org
        >
        > From: krishna9012
        > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 3:55 PM
        > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Shorty Lovelace trapper Cabin GPS Fixes
        >
        >
        > There is another important attachment to the application, that contains photos and pieces of NG maps showing the exact location of the cabins! Here is the link:
        >
        > http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Photos/78000293.pdf
        >
        > --- In mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com, "krishna9012" <krishna9012@> wrote:
        > >
        > > This is what I found from an application made to the National Register of Historical places to recognize Shorty's cabins. One should be able to find the GPS fix from the N and E coordinates. Here is the info.
        > >
        > > Source: http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Text/78000293.pdf
        > >
        > > Woods Creek Crossing ;' Zone 11
        > > N 40-81-630
        > > E 3-72-270
        > > Vidette Meadow Zone,11
        > > N 40-68-250
        > > E 3-74-930
        > > fit-0
        > > Cloud Canyon *]• Zone 11
        > > N 40-56-990
        > > E 3-62-980
        > > Granite Pass 1 Zone 11,
        > > N 40-83-780
        > > E 3-56-960
        > > Garimer Basin Zone 11
        > > N 40-76-340 E 3-66-220
        > > ITEM NUMBER
        > > 1Q PAGE 2
        > > ,
        > > Bubbs Creek ]; Zone 11
        > > N 40-71-330
        > > E 3-63-40
        > > Sphinx Creek ; Zone 11 ^
        > > N 40-69-660
        > > E 3-64-i380
        > > i/ A'rt
        > > Crowley Canyon Zone 11
        > > N 40-62-990 E 3-49-;
        > > Williams Meadow Zone 11
        > > N 40-67^430
        > > E 3-49-390
        > >
        > > --- In mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Anybody have a GPS fix on any of his cabins?
        > > >
        > > > John Curran Ladd
        > > > 1616 Castro Street
        > > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
        > > > 415-648-9279
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:15 PM, John <johndittli@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > **
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Shorty was a trapper ...
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • John Ladd
        I think the GPS locations for the cabins reported at the reference Krishna located are all given using the NAD72 datum and giving a northing and an easting in
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 23, 2013
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          I think the GPS locations for the cabins reported at the reference Krishna located are all given using the NAD72 datum and giving a northing and an easting in a somewhat unconventional format apparently used by the NPS in the 1970's

          The source of the locations was a 1977 document so WGS84 would not yet have been available. Since locations was probably just read off of a map, I suspect the locations are approximate only 

          I reformatted them to the more usual way of UTM expression, and incorporating the handwritten notations on the document that Krishna found, supplemented by some notations on a map, linked below

          All  in Zone 11 North 
          identified by Easting and then Northing on the NAD27 datum

          On the JMT

          Woods Creek Crossing 372270E 4081630N 

          Note: turn left after crossing Woods Creek Bridge if southbound and head ENE - hidden behind some foliage - based on the co-ordinates above and several guidebooks I found online

          Vidette Meadow 374700E 4068250N 

          Note: downstream of intersection of Vidette and Bubbs Creeks per the video linked below and apparently confirmed by the waypoint given

          Off the JMT

          Cloud Canyon 362980E 4056990N
          Granite Pass 356960E 4083780N
          Gardiner Basin 366220E 4076340N
          Bubbs Creek 363040E 4071330N (Easting corrected using source linked below)
          Sphinx Creek 364400E 4069650N
          Crowley Canyon 349780E 4062990N 
          Williams Meadow 349390E 4067430N

          Only the Vidette and Woods Creek sites would be particularly near the JMT. The Bubbs Creek one, for example, is almost all the way down to Roads End in Kings Canyon.

          There are photos of the cabins, taken in the 1960's and 1970's at this link


          The last 3 pages of the document linked above has the locations roughly marked on maps 

          Video of the pretty well-preserved Vidette cabin (which  I think someone else mentioned)


          Video also reports that the cabin was just downstream of the intersection of Bubbs and Vidette Creeks. (Vidette Creek flows into Bubbs on the side of Bubbs away from the JMT)

          There's not much left of the Woods Creek cabin - see photo on this page


          Inline image 1

          I added the approximate locations to my waterfalls, etc. Google map


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