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Jetboil cooking ideas

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  • ravi_jmt2013
    I have been happy with my Jetboil but sometimes frustrated with anything that has to simmer. After reading about the steeping/reheating method here and on
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 15, 2013
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      I have been happy with my Jetboil but sometimes frustrated with anything that has to simmer. After reading about the steeping/reheating method here and on some other sites, I decided to try something more interesting and calorie-dense compared to my typical Knorr side meals which I have to say are getting tiring and even though it probably isn't harmful on the trail I am not a fan of the salt and other mysterious sounding contents in those sides.

      For an experiment, I measured out 120 grams of Trader Joe's Italian Tortellini with pesto filling. This product calls for boiling several quarts of water and simmering and boiling the pasta briskly for 16-18 minutes. Instead, I measured 10 ounces of water and added two ounces of olive oil. I brought the liquids to a boil, added the pasta and put the pot in my cozy for ten minutes. I then returned the pot to the burner and brought the contents to a boil again (took under 30 seconds) and returned the pot to the cozy again. I repeated the cycle a third time at which point the contents appeared fully cooked.

      I'm optimistic that this experiment means that anything that calls for simmering can be cooked in slightly less than twice the time by boiling the contents and placing the pot in a cozy repeating as many times as needed. The end result is pretty hard to tell from the same pasta cooked conventionally in my kitchen. I ate it without any sauce but perhaps adding some dry pesto powder to the mix after the second or third reheat would improve the end result.

      Total calories: 460 for the pasta and 520 for the olive oil (most of which appeared to be absorbed) for a total of 980 calories. Total weight: 4.25 ounces for the pasta and 2 ounces for the olive oil for a total of 6.25 ounces. Calories per ounce: 157. That is a very substantial improvement over the caloric density of a Knorr side and tastes quite a bit better as well.
    • John Ladd
      I use variants on Ravi s method often (and even almost exactly his TJ tortelleni recipe) and also enjoy it. I think his rule of thumb is about right. Steeping
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 15, 2013
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        I use variants on Ravi's method often (and even almost exactly his TJ tortelleni recipe) and also enjoy it. I think his rule of thumb is about right. Steeping at high elevations takes about 2x the time of a simmer at sea level.  A few things take longer, particularly at the higher elevations. I very rarely have to return anything to a simmer more than 3 times before the steeping cooks it.  

        I'll also add some homemade pesto to the TJ tortellini, after it cooks, or some grated hard Parmesan. Pesto is pretty trail-stable and hard parmesan very much so.

        I found that I can simmer-and-steep McCann's Steel Cut Irish Oatmeal -- which supposedly takes 20 minutes -- by bringing it to a simmer before bed and putting it in a cozy overnight. Then simmer and re-steep once (or twice) in the morning. I usually use about 1/2 or 2/3 of the water required in the evening and then add the rest in the morning.

        Inline image 1
         
        Image URL



        On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 4:07 PM, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
         

        I have been happy with my Jetboil but sometimes frustrated with anything that has to simmer. After reading about the steeping/reheating method here and on some other sites, I decided to try something more interesting and calorie-dense compared to my typical Knorr side meals which I have to say are getting tiring and even though it probably isn't harmful on the trail I am not a fan of the salt and other mysterious sounding contents in those sides.

        For an experiment, I measured out 120 grams of Trader Joe's Italian Tortellini with pesto filling. This product calls for boiling several quarts of water and simmering and boiling the pasta briskly for 16-18 minutes. Instead, I measured 10 ounces of water and added two ounces of olive oil. I brought the liquids to a boil, added the pasta and put the pot in my cozy for ten minutes. I then returned the pot to the burner and brought the contents to a boil again (took under 30 seconds) and returned the pot to the cozy again. I repeated the cycle a third time at which point the contents appeared fully cooked.

        I'm optimistic that this experiment means that anything that calls for simmering can be cooked in slightly less than twice the time by boiling the contents and placing the pot in a cozy repeating as many times as needed. The end result is pretty hard to tell from the same pasta cooked conventionally in my kitchen. I ate it without any sauce but perhaps adding some dry pesto powder to the mix after the second or third reheat would improve the end result.

        Total calories: 460 for the pasta and 520 for the olive oil (most of which appeared to be absorbed) for a total of 980 calories. Total weight: 4.25 ounces for the pasta and 2 ounces for the olive oil for a total of 6.25 ounces. Calories per ounce: 157. That is a very substantial improvement over the caloric density of a Knorr side and tastes quite a bit better as well.


      • ravi_jmt2013
        ... I m thinking that hard cheese (probably parmesan) may be a luxury for the first segment of the JMT but I m not sure that the cheese would survive in a
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 15, 2013
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          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'll also add some homemade pesto to the TJ tortellini, after it cooks, or
          > some grated hard Parmesan. Pesto is pretty trail-stable and hard parmesan
          > very much so.

          I'm thinking that hard cheese (probably parmesan) may be a luxury for the first segment of the JMT but I'm not sure that the cheese would survive in a resupply shipment. I may try an experiment with keeping hard cheese unrefrigerated for a longer period of time to see what happens. I assume that keeping the block of cheese intact and then somehow grating it on the trail would increase longevity by reducing the amount of cheese exposed to air. Trader Joes seems to have a good selection of hard cheese.
        • John Ladd
          Yes - Ship it as a block and grate in the field. Can pack it with some instant rice to absorb moisture. The harder the cheese the better. I get real Italian
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 15, 2013
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            Yes - Ship it as a block and grate in the field. Can pack it with some instant rice to absorb moisture. The harder the cheese the better. I get real Italian Parmesan reggiano from a good deli that gets it in large wheels. You can safely (I think) cut off anything that gets green mold on it, but I've found not much mold (though I haven't yet shipped it for longer than about a week).

            John Curran Ladd
            1616 Castro Street
            San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
            415-648-9279


            On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 4:49 PM, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
             

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'll also add some homemade pesto to the TJ tortellini, after it cooks, or
            > some grated hard Parmesan. Pesto is pretty trail-stable and hard parmesan
            > very much so.

            I'm thinking that hard cheese (probably parmesan) may be a luxury for the first segment of the JMT but I'm not sure that the cheese would survive in a resupply shipment. I may try an experiment with keeping hard cheese unrefrigerated for a longer period of time to see what happens. I assume that keeping the block of cheese intact and then somehow grating it on the trail would increase longevity by reducing the amount of cheese exposed to air. Trader Joes seems to have a good selection of hard cheese.


          • Stephen Kundell
            Regarding cheese, I have had good success with many hard cheeses, such as an aged gouda. If you wrap with a thin layer of cheese cloth, sprinkle with a few
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 15, 2013
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              Regarding cheese, I have had good success with many hard cheeses, such
              as an aged gouda. If you wrap with a thin layer of cheese cloth,
              sprinkle with a few drops of white vinegar, and wrap in a plastic bag,
              it will stay for at least a couple weeks without mold or spoiling. Not
              sure about several weeks at Muir Ranch. Great source of calories,
              protein, calcium.
            • Carolsteveyoung
              Watch your altitude re boiling hot Water boils at lower temps under high altitude conditions due to lower atmospheric pressure. Should still work I bet. Just
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 15, 2013
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                Watch your altitude re "boiling hot"

                Water boils at lower temps under high altitude conditions due to lower atmospheric pressure. Should still work I bet. Just check for doneness before putting the stove away. I may try this too as we love tortellini!

                Steve Young
                Geneva IL

                On Jun 15, 2013, at 6:07 PM, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...> wrote:

                 

                I have been happy with my Jetboil but sometimes frustrated with anything that has to simmer. After reading about the steeping/reheating method here and on some other sites, I decided to try something more interesting and calorie-dense compared to my typical Knorr side meals which I have to say are getting tiring and even though it probably isn't harmful on the trail I am not a fan of the salt and other mysterious sounding contents in those sides.

                For an experiment, I measured out 120 grams of Trader Joe's Italian Tortellini with pesto filling. This product calls for boiling several quarts of water and simmering and boiling the pasta briskly for 16-18 minutes. Instead, I measured 10 ounces of water and added two ounces of olive oil. I brought the liquids to a boil, added the pasta and put the pot in my cozy for ten minutes. I then returned the pot to the burner and brought the contents to a boil again (took under 30 seconds) and returned the pot to the cozy again. I repeated the cycle a third time at which point the contents appeared fully cooked.

                I'm optimistic that this experiment means that anything that calls for simmering can be cooked in slightly less than twice the time by boiling the contents and placing the pot in a cozy repeating as many times as needed. The end result is pretty hard to tell from the same pasta cooked conventionally in my kitchen. I ate it without any sauce but perhaps adding some dry pesto powder to the mix after the second or third reheat would improve the end result.

                Total calories: 460 for the pasta and 520 for the olive oil (most of which appeared to be absorbed) for a total of 980 calories. Total weight: 4.25 ounces for the pasta and 2 ounces for the olive oil for a total of 6.25 ounces. Calories per ounce: 157. That is a very substantial improvement over the caloric density of a Knorr side and tastes quite a bit better as well.

              • John Ladd
                Steve s definitely right about this. I ve had more problems with my steel cut oatmeal at elevation and more often have to do repeat steeps when I m higher than
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 15, 2013
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                  Steve's definitely right about this. I've had more problems with my steel cut oatmeal at elevation and more often have to do repeat steeps when I'm higher than usual. The tortellni and other pasta products, however, seem not as sensitive to altitude, presumably because they rehydrate better at temps in the plus/minus 190 range. (192 is the boiling point at 10k feet)

                  John Curran Ladd
                  1616 Castro Street
                  San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                  415-648-9279


                  On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Carolsteveyoung <carolsteveyoung@...> wrote:
                   

                  Watch your altitude re "boiling hot"

                  Water boils at lower temps under high altitude conditions due to lower atmospheric pressure. Should still work I bet. Just check for doneness before putting the stove away. I may try this too as we love tortellini!

                  Steve Young
                  Geneva IL

                  On Jun 15, 2013, at 6:07 PM, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...> wrote:

                   

                  I have been happy with my Jetboil but sometimes frustrated with anything that has to simmer. After reading about the steeping/reheating method here and on some other sites, I decided to try something more interesting and calorie-dense compared to my typical Knorr side meals which I have to say are getting tiring and even though it probably isn't harmful on the trail I am not a fan of the salt and other mysterious sounding contents in those sides.

                  For an experiment, I measured out 120 grams of Trader Joe's Italian Tortellini with pesto filling. This product calls for boiling several quarts of water and simmering and boiling the pasta briskly for 16-18 minutes. Instead, I measured 10 ounces of water and added two ounces of olive oil. I brought the liquids to a boil, added the pasta and put the pot in my cozy for ten minutes. I then returned the pot to the burner and brought the contents to a boil again (took under 30 seconds) and returned the pot to the cozy again. I repeated the cycle a third time at which point the contents appeared fully cooked.

                  I'm optimistic that this experiment means that anything that calls for simmering can be cooked in slightly less than twice the time by boiling the contents and placing the pot in a cozy repeating as many times as needed. The end result is pretty hard to tell from the same pasta cooked conventionally in my kitchen. I ate it without any sauce but perhaps adding some dry pesto powder to the mix after the second or third reheat would improve the end result.

                  Total calories: 460 for the pasta and 520 for the olive oil (most of which appeared to be absorbed) for a total of 980 calories. Total weight: 4.25 ounces for the pasta and 2 ounces for the olive oil for a total of 6.25 ounces. Calories per ounce: 157. That is a very substantial improvement over the caloric density of a Knorr side and tastes quite a bit better as well.


                • ravi_jmt2013
                  The same approach appears to work well for TJ Mac & Cheese (and presumably Kraft as well) only it requires just one reheat rather than two and uses 14 ounces
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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                    The same approach appears to work well for TJ Mac & Cheese (and presumably Kraft as well) only it requires just one reheat rather than two and uses 14 ounces of water and two ounces of olive oil. I add the cheese packet and mix it in after the first ten minutes in the cozy and before the reheat and ten more minutes in the cozy. Caution is needed when reheating to avoid burning the bottom. The contents takes up almost the entire capacity of the Sol Aluminum pot. The result is pretty close to normal preparation. A little too oily for my tastes normally but those calories should be appreciated on the trail. 1330 calories and 9.15 ounces... About 145 calories/ounce.

                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I have been happy with my Jetboil but sometimes frustrated with anything that has to simmer. After reading about the steeping/reheating method here and on some other sites, I decided to try something more interesting and calorie-dense compared to my typical Knorr side meals which I have to say are getting tiring and even though it probably isn't harmful on the trail I am not a fan of the salt and other mysterious sounding contents in those sides.
                    >
                    > For an experiment, I measured out 120 grams of Trader Joe's Italian Tortellini with pesto filling. This product calls for boiling several quarts of water and simmering and boiling the pasta briskly for 16-18 minutes. Instead, I measured 10 ounces of water and added two ounces of olive oil. I brought the liquids to a boil, added the pasta and put the pot in my cozy for ten minutes. I then returned the pot to the burner and brought the contents to a boil again (took under 30 seconds) and returned the pot to the cozy again. I repeated the cycle a third time at which point the contents appeared fully cooked.
                    >
                    > I'm optimistic that this experiment means that anything that calls for simmering can be cooked in slightly less than twice the time by boiling the contents and placing the pot in a cozy repeating as many times as needed. The end result is pretty hard to tell from the same pasta cooked conventionally in my kitchen. I ate it without any sauce but perhaps adding some dry pesto powder to the mix after the second or third reheat would improve the end result.
                    >
                    > Total calories: 460 for the pasta and 520 for the olive oil (most of which appeared to be absorbed) for a total of 980 calories. Total weight: 4.25 ounces for the pasta and 2 ounces for the olive oil for a total of 6.25 ounces. Calories per ounce: 157. That is a very substantial improvement over the caloric density of a Knorr side and tastes quite a bit better as well.
                    >
                  • dh5169
                    Ravi, As a former cheesemonger, I can assure you that a well aged, good quality parmesan (check a local cheese shop for a stravecchio parmesan) will keep for
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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                      Ravi,
                      As a former cheesemonger, I can assure you that a well aged, good quality parmesan (check a local cheese shop for a stravecchio parmesan) will keep for months, especially if well wrapped.
                      Doug

                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I'll also add some homemade pesto to the TJ tortellini, after it cooks, or
                      > > some grated hard Parmesan. Pesto is pretty trail-stable and hard parmesan
                      > > very much so.
                      >
                      > I'm thinking that hard cheese (probably parmesan) may be a luxury for the first segment of the JMT but I'm not sure that the cheese would survive in a resupply shipment. I may try an experiment with keeping hard cheese unrefrigerated for a longer period of time to see what happens. I assume that keeping the block of cheese intact and then somehow grating it on the trail would increase longevity by reducing the amount of cheese exposed to air. Trader Joes seems to have a good selection of hard cheese.
                      >
                    • John Ladd
                      ... I d love your advice on how best to wrap for shipping to a place like MTR. John L
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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                        On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 9:28 AM, dh5169 <dh5169@...> wrote:
                        ... As a former cheesemonger, I can assure you that a well aged, good quality parmesan ... will keep for months, especially if well wrapped. 

                        Doug

                        I'd love your advice on how best to wrap for shipping to a place like MTR.

                        John L 
                      • dh5169
                        John, The presumption is that you are starting with a well-aged cheese. I would look for a minimum of 1 year of aging. Go to a good cheese shop and they
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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                          John,
                          The presumption is that you are starting with a well-aged cheese. I would look for a minimum of 1 year of aging. Go to a good cheese shop and they should be able to put you on the right track. Besides the parm, I like an aged manchego, pecorino, piave, or goat gouda. Someone earlier mentioned cheese paper and I support that recommendation. You can also get cheese bags(same as paper but easier to deal with). You want the cheese to breath and not end up tasting like plastic wrap. Place inside a ziploc or a hard plastic container. The cheese paper let's the cheese breath while the outer layer keeps it from drying out. If you want to get serious about it, you could buy some cheese wax and coat it, but I think that's overkill. I shipped a 2-year old parm in a resupply from the east coast to MTR and then, because we never got there, had it shipped back. Was still in perfectly good shape.
                          Doug

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 9:28 AM, dh5169 <dh5169@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > **
                          > > ... As a former cheesemonger, I can assure you that a well aged, good
                          > > quality parmesan ... *will keep for months, especially if well wrapped.
                          > > *
                          > >
                          > > Doug
                          >
                          > I'd love your advice on how best to wrap for shipping to a place like MTR.
                          >
                          > John L
                          >
                        • Roleigh Martin
                          Google the message archive on comments about Mini Babybel Cheese (which is fully wrapped in wax coating). It has been used by me on my last 2-3 JMTs and holds
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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                            Google the message archive on comments about Mini Babybel Cheese (which is fully wrapped in wax coating). It has been used by me on my last 2-3 JMTs and holds up fine.  Same for others I know who have used it.
                            -------------------------------------------------
                            Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                          • dofdear aka Thumper
                            Dear Group, I posted this on the PCT-L but am curious what you opinions are. This is my plan and I d appreciate comments; SOBO hike of the PCT beginning 3rd
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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                              Dear Group,

                               

                              I posted this on the PCT-L but am curious what you opinions are.  This is my plan and I'd appreciate comments;

                              SOBO hike of the PCT beginning 3rd week of June this year from Manning to Campo by end of October. Starting with 2 or 3 others and plan on staying together at least through the WA  now, if any. Otherwise this could be a solo hike but in reviewing each others plan we could be together/near for much of the trail.  So here is my proposed strategy;


                              No paper!  Delorme GPS with TOPO 9 Maps and Halfmile's Waypoints and Tracks. Redundancy provided with Samsung Galaxy Note II loaded with Halfmile's maps, the Wilderness Press  Guidebooks, Ben Go Data Book.  GPS and Phone will have spare batteries and backup micro-SD chips.  Both will be in waterproof sacks.  Yes, I'll carry a compass.


                              Rational - My old phone (HTC EVO) weighed in at 8oz with extended battery. Smaller screen made reading pdf maps acceptable but difficult.  New phone is 6 oz with normal battery that is  similar capacity as old phone's battery yet the screen is much larger and has significantly improved resolution. Battery life goes from 12 hours to 36 hours in normal use and on the trail the phone and GPS are off unless needed.  The point is I'd carry a phone and GPS anyway.  So the real savings would be the paper, maps and guide/data book sections plus the weight savings of the new phone itself. All the peripheral items, cable, charger, etc are the same between phones. Oh, the battery backup for the phone also supports GPS device for an added layer of redundancy.

                              I realize this is a big paradigm shift and I'm hoping for the Group's
                              perspective.  Thanks,



                              Thumper

                            • brucelem12
                              Mozzarella balls sealed in original vacuum wrap for month + in resupply, then opened/eaten over as many as 6 days on a hot hike tastes/works well for me. Might
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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                                Mozzarella balls sealed in original vacuum wrap for month + in resupply, then opened/eaten over as many as 6 days on a hot hike tastes/works well for me. Might be my palette is just so unsophisticated I don't even recognize cheese gone bad, :) ..but I've never noticed any mold or bad taste. Makes up a fairly significant portion of my diet...great w/ many things. No particular care taken in slicing off chunks per meal, (often just bite directly off it actually) :) ...just reseal in ziplock.
                                Bruce

                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...> wrote:
                                > I'm thinking that hard cheese (probably parmesan) may be a luxury for the first segment of the JMT but I'm not sure that the cheese would survive in a resupply shipment. I may try an experiment with keeping hard cheese unrefrigerated for a longer period of time to see what happens. I assume that keeping the block of cheese intact and then somehow grating it on the trail would increase longevity by reducing the amount of cheese exposed to air. Trader Joes seems to have a good selection of hard cheese.
                                >
                              • nedtibbits
                                We do not put a lot of faith in nor rely heavily on electronics in the backcountry, especially when you will be back there for, perhaps, a week or more at a
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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                                  We do not put a lot of faith in nor rely heavily on electronics in the backcountry, especially when you will be back there for, perhaps, a week or more at a time.
                                   
                                  Don’t forget, electronic devices do not do well in the wet and cold. Battery life diminishes quickly in cold weather. Electronics are affected by magnetic fields like old lava flows (and you will be on many while in the midst of the old volcanoes of the PNW).
                                   
                                  It is good that you will be taking backup batteries. Do you know how fast you will go through them considering the expected cold and wet weather? When you plan on saving weight by relying on electronics to do multiple tasks, you’d better have a “Plan B” for when they fail!
                                   
                                  When we are navigating through dense trees over solid snow (typical of the PNW), constantly searching for the trail and “signs of man,” our GPS units use a whole lot of power and last only three days before needing a battery change. Is this what you’re expecting?
                                   
                                   
                                  Ned Tibbits, Director
                                  Mountain Education
                                  www.mountaineducation.org
                                   
                                  Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 12:21 PM
                                  Subject: [John Muir Trail] Request for Strategy Comments (Maps, Guide & Data Book)
                                   
                                   

                                  Dear Group,

                                  I posted this on the PCT-L but am curious what you opinions are.  This is my plan and I'd appreciate comments;

                                  SOBO hike of the PCT beginning 3rd week of June this year from Manning to Campo by end of October. Starting with 2 or 3 others and plan on staying together at least through the WA  now, if any. Otherwise this could be a solo hike but in reviewing each others plan we could be together/near for much of the trail.  So here is my proposed strategy;


                                  No paper!  Delorme GPS with TOPO 9 Maps and Halfmile's Waypoints and Tracks. Redundancy provided with Samsung Galaxy Note II loaded with Halfmile's maps, the Wilderness Press  Guidebooks, Ben Go Data Book.  GPS and Phone will have spare batteries and backup micro-SD chips.  Both will be in waterproof sacks.  Yes, I'll carry a compass.


                                  Rational - My old phone (HTC EVO) weighed in at 8oz with extended battery. Smaller screen made reading pdf maps acceptable but difficult.  New phone is 6 oz with normal battery that is  similar capacity as old phone's battery yet the screen is much larger and has significantly improved resolution. Battery life goes from 12 hours to 36 hours in normal use and on the trail the phone and GPS are off unless needed.  The point is I'd carry a phone and GPS anyway.  So the real savings would be the paper, maps and guide/data book sections plus the weight savings of the new phone itself. All the peripheral items, cable, charger, etc are the same between phones. Oh, the battery backup for the phone also supports GPS device for an added layer of redundancy.

                                  I realize this is a big paradigm shift and I'm hoping for the Group's
                                  perspective.  Thanks,



                                  Thumper

                                • casey
                                  I ve been using a Samsung Galaxy 7 tablet for the almost two years, works great, hoping to upgrade to the Note ll. It s half the weight. I carry a Goal
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 17, 2013
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                                    I've been using a Samsung Galaxy 7" tablet for the almost two years, works great, hoping to upgrade to the Note ll. It's half the weight. I carry a Goal Zero Nomad 3.5 solar charger to power it. (Also recharges my headlamp batteries, g.p.s. batteries, and mp3 player.) It gives the tablet about 8 or 9 hours of video playback time on a recharge.

                                    When you consider all the things the tablet replaces, for me it seems to save weight, definitely saves on space. It's my camera, notebook, maps, trailguide, and I can watch a movie before bedtime. Personally don't have a problem with electronics in the backcountry. If it works, saves weight, and bulk, why not take advantage of the benefits. Without change we would all be wearing calf high leather boots and carrying external frame packs. (not meant as a criticism) There was a lot of resistance to g.p.s when if first became available, still is to some degree.



                                    >
                                    > From: dofdear aka Thumper
                                    > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 12:21 PM
                                    > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Request for Strategy Comments (Maps, Guide & Data Book)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Dear Group,
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I posted this on the PCT-L but am curious what you opinions are. This is my plan and I'd appreciate comments;
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > SOBO hike of the PCT beginning 3rd week of June this year from Manning to Campo by end of October. Starting with 2 or 3 others and plan on staying together at least through the WA now, if any. Otherwise this could be a solo hike but in reviewing each others plan we could be together/near for much of the trail. So here is my proposed strategy;
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > No paper! Delorme GPS with TOPO 9 Maps and Halfmile's Waypoints and Tracks. Redundancy provided with Samsung Galaxy Note II loaded with Halfmile's maps, the Wilderness Press Guidebooks, Ben Go Data Book. GPS and Phone will have spare batteries and backup micro-SD chips. Both will be in waterproof sacks. Yes, I'll carry a compass.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Rational - My old phone (HTC EVO) weighed in at 8oz with extended battery. Smaller screen made reading pdf maps acceptable but difficult. New phone is 6 oz with normal battery that is similar capacity as old phone's battery yet the screen is much larger and has significantly improved resolution. Battery life goes from 12 hours to 36 hours in normal use and on the trail the phone and GPS are off unless needed. The point is I'd carry a phone and GPS anyway. So the real savings would be the paper, maps and guide/data book sections plus the weight savings of the new phone itself. All the peripheral items, cable, charger, etc are the same between phones. Oh, the battery backup for the phone also supports GPS device for an added layer of redundancy.
                                    >
                                    > I realize this is a big paradigm shift and I'm hoping for the Group's
                                    > perspective. Thanks,
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Thumper
                                    >
                                  • Mark Liechty
                                    ... My suggestions may be to basic for most of the readers of this list but they work well for people getting started and looking for confidence and toolsets.
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 17, 2013
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                                      On Jun 16, 2013, at 10:12 PM, <ned@...> <ned@...> wrote:

                                       
                                      We do not put a lot of faith in nor rely heavily on electronics in the backcountry, especially when you will be back there for, perhaps, a week or more at a time.
                                       
                                      Don’t forget, electronic devices do not do well in the wet and cold. Battery life diminishes quickly in cold weather. Electronics are affected by magnetic fields like old lava flows (and you will be on many while in the midst of the old volcanoes of the PNW).
                                      ########

                                      My suggestions may be to basic for most of the readers of this list but they work well for people getting started and looking for confidence and toolsets.

                                      I have never ever been lost.  Maybe misplaced but never lost.   I always know ... What Planet I am on, What continent I am on, what Country I am in, What state I am in (mostly there have been times I have been on border)  and within 20-30 miles of my last fixed point.  Knowing these things helps settle the mind to further pinpoint locations.

                                      A couple of weeks ago i was delivering basic Outdoor leader training to some new Scout Leaders.  As was to be expected ALL of us had Compass apps on our phones.  

                                      I had them take them out and orient themselves to 180 degrees.  None of them were pointing in the exact direction.  Variations from 1-15 degrees.    Nothing significant in a 100 yard compass course but enough to get you in serious trouble in the wilderness when you are not really confident with your map reading skills.    

                                      We then brought out standard boring old compasses and the same group of men all ended up pointing in the same direction.   It did not make them experts at orienteering but if you find yourselves just a bit disoriented it helps to know your tools will be working on your side.    My cell phone compass is good enough when I have a map and solid peaks, rivers, valleys to confirm my location.  Other than that it is a toy that I love to carry but it is still just a toy.  


                                      Mark "Blankie" Liechty



                                    • John Ladd
                                      ... I ve also noticed that I get better altitude readings with my barometric altimeter (assuming I reset it frequently at known elevations) than with the
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 17, 2013
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                                        On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
                                        ... We then brought out standard boring old compasses and the same group of men all ended up pointing in the same direction.

                                        I've also noticed that I get better altitude readings with my barometric altimeter (assuming I reset it frequently at known elevations) than with the altitude readings of my GPS.

                                        Explanation here

                                        http://gpsinformation.net/main/altitude.htm

                                        John Curran Ladd
                                        1616 Castro Street
                                        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                        415-648-9279
                                      • Roleigh Martin
                                        John, what a great link -- this is a keeper (want to add it to our link library). Anyway I m curious about the comparison of mechanical altimeter (Sun or
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 17, 2013
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                                          John, what a great link -- this is a keeper (want to add it to our link library).

                                          Anyway I'm curious about the comparison of mechanical altimeter (Sun or Liberty Mountain) versus an altimeter watch (eg, HighGear).
                                          -------------------------------------------------
                                          Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                                          _



                                          On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:25 PM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                           

                                          On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
                                          ... We then brought out standard boring old compasses and the same group of men all ended up pointing in the same direction.

                                          I've also noticed that I get better altitude readings with my barometric altimeter (assuming I reset it frequently at known elevations) than with the altitude readings of my GPS.

                                          Explanation here

                                          http://gpsinformation.net/main/altitude.htm

                                          John Curran Ladd
                                          1616 Castro Street
                                          San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                          415-648-9279


                                        • John Ladd
                                          ... I don t really know. I ve come to trust my Suunto watch altimeter (if frequently reset at passes) but haven t used other kinds. John Curran Ladd 1616
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jun 17, 2013
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                                            On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                                            I'm curious about the comparison of mechanical altimeter (Sun or Liberty Mountain) versus an altimeter watch (eg, HighGear).

                                            I don't really know. I've come to trust my Suunto watch altimeter (if frequently reset at passes) but haven't used other kinds.

                                            John Curran Ladd
                                            1616 Castro Street
                                            San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                            415-648-9279
                                          • John Ladd
                                            ... Done. It s now with other technical stuff on navigational technical issues like compass declination and the UTM grid systems you see along the borders of
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jun 17, 2013
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                                              On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                                              John, what a great link -- this is a keeper (want to add it to our link library).

                                              Done. It's now with other technical stuff on navigational technical issues like compass declination and the UTM grid systems you see along the borders of your maps.

                                            • ravi_jmt2013
                                              ... Picked up some 24 month aged Parmigiano Reggiano today and I ll be thrilled if I can make this part of my trail diet. Surprisingly not that calorie dense
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Jun 17, 2013
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                                                -- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "dh5169" <dh5169@...> wrote:
                                                > Ravi,
                                                > As a former cheesemonger, I can assure you that a well aged, good quality parmesan (check a local cheese shop for a stravecchio parmesan) will keep for months, especially if well wrapped.
                                                >

                                                Picked up some 24 month aged Parmigiano Reggiano today and I'll be thrilled if I can make this part of my trail diet. Surprisingly not that calorie dense at 110 cal/ounce but very tasty cheese. It seems hard enough to survive a long time.
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