Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Waterproof or non-waterproof boots

Expand Messages
  • John
    Darryl You say you ve been very happy with your waterproof boots. Have you worn them backpacking for several days in a row with no blisters? If so, why change?
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 14 11:13 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Darryl

      You say you've been very happy with your waterproof boots. Have you worn them backpacking for several days in a row with no blisters? If so, why change? 

      Over many decades of long distance backpacking, I have had the opportunity to try leather, composite, GTX (Gore-tex or facsimile), plastic, mesh, mid weight and trail runners. I am fortunate to not be plagued by blisters yet, (skin becomes less durable with age). I also don't have much of an issue with fit. I go thru one to two pairs of boots a season, I order what ever is on sale and looks appropriate from Sierra Trading post.

      I have found the following:  heavy leather boots offer the most protection and can be waterproofed w/out as much sweating as GTX boots. That said, I don't use them any more due to the weight. GTX boots are hot and sweaty, non-waterproof are cooler and drier, I steer away from mesh shoes as I really don't like the amount of fine sand they let in. The few times I get blisters is from sand irritation. Your feet and socks get absolutely filthy with mesh and require regular washing, not so with tighter weave fabrics. Still, there are many people that use mesh runners.

      Last summer I ended up with mesh on the outer and GTX on the inner (some sort of Montrail). This allowed for sand to pass thru the mesh and then get trapped between the layers making the boots pretty uncomfortable and was very difficult to remove. I also had some sort of Scarpa composite (leather and nylon) GTX boot that worked quite well.

      While I had two pair of GTX boots last season, I tend more often to just use a tight weave breathable fabric shoe. While the GTX is convenient for the few crossings I can't hop across, my feet are more comfortable being cooler. Unless you happen to hit the Sierra during a monsoonal flow, rain isn't much of an issue. It should be noted that if you do get GTX or leather boots significantly wet, they take much longer to dry.

      This summer I will be using some breathable Saucony ProGrid Outlaws for trail use and Scarpas off trail. I think too, to use a light weight shoe, like a trail runner, it is very important to have a light foot print ie. combined body/pack weight.

      Now that I wrote this I have no idea if it even remotely adresses your questions.....

      JD
      Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail

       


    • Robert
      Hi Darryl. You will get lots of opinions on this one, but I will chime in on my thoughts. I am a huge advocate of breathable lighter weight footwear such as
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 14 11:49 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Darryl. You will get lots of opinions on this one, but I will chime in on my thoughts. I am a huge advocate of breathable lighter weight footwear such as trail runners as we have discussed off line before, but I wouldn't recommend them to you based on what you have told me about your hiking needs and overall pack weight. I would still take a look at some non-Gortex breathable light hikers though. The waterproof hikers probably are a must in the Pacific Northwest, but can really be a disadvantage in the drier, warmer Sierras. I got rained on for 6 days in a row last season on my JMT hike, and was just fine in my trail runners as things will dry quickly. I know everyone has different levels of foot sweat, but for me I got the worst blisters ever when using using waterproof boots in my early days of backpacking. If your feet are hot and moist inside the boot, it is a recipe for blisters. Unfortunately, it is getting harder to find good, non-Gortex style hiking boots anymore as it seems that all the major boot makers seem to market the latest and greatest 'breathable' shoes on the market!

        As far as the Vasque Breeze boots go, I tried a pair but returned them as they were too narrow for me. They seemed like good boots though I didn't have them long enough to give you a fair evaluation.



        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Darryl" <dabrahms@...> wrote:
        >
        > Part 1: I went to see my podiatrist today and discovered that I have to replace my waterproof Vasque hiking boots, which I have been very happy with. We got into a discussion about whether I should take waterproof or non-waterproof boots on the JMT. I told him that I have New Balance Minimus Trail Running shoes for water crossings, but I don't know how much rain is going to be a factor when I where boots. I have read in the group that waterproof hiking boots cause moisture build-up because they do not breathe well, and this increases the propensity for blisters. I'd appreciate your thoughts on which side of the scale the benefits and trade-off between waterproof and non-waterproof boots is most favorable.
        > Part 2: I'd be grateful for opinions on Vasque Breeze boots.
        > Please note, that wearing only trail runners is not an option for me because "I have the flattest feet in the West."
        > Thanks,
        > Darryl
        >
      • ravi_jmt2013
        ... I noticed this problem with my Brooks Cascadias over a week in the Grand Canyon. I had fine sand and dust coating my socks and dirty feet after just a few
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 14 3:52 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
          > I steer away from
          > mesh shoes as I really don't like the amount of fine sand they let in.
          > The few times I get blisters is from sand irritation. Your feet and
          > socks get absolutely filthy with mesh and require regular washing, not
          > so with tighter weave fabrics. Still, there are many people that use
          > mesh runners.

          I noticed this problem with my Brooks Cascadias over a week in the Grand Canyon. I had fine sand and dust coating my socks and dirty feet after just a few hours of walking. I did not get any blisters but I was not doing high mileage days. Also, I do question how durable the Cascadias would be over a full JMT hike. I'm thinking that I'll take them on the North Lake-South Lake loop and that should provide an indication of how well they will perform over the full JMT. I've read that many PCT thru hikers use Cascadias but they go through six or seven of them during a thru hike.
        • Robert
          My Cascadias held up fine for a whole hike of the JMT two summers ago, but my Montrail Badrocks blew out the sides last year and were tossed out after my hike.
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 14 4:44 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            My Cascadias held up fine for a whole hike of the JMT two summers ago, but my Montrail Badrocks blew out the sides last year and were tossed out after my hike. It wast a catastrophic failure, but it did let in debris which was annoying! I won't be using them again. The Montrail AT's have a denser weave and are like beefed up trail runners and have tested good for me, if you can find them.

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@> wrote:
            > > I steer away from
            > > mesh shoes as I really don't like the amount of fine sand they let in.
            > > The few times I get blisters is from sand irritation. Your feet and
            > > socks get absolutely filthy with mesh and require regular washing, not
            > > so with tighter weave fabrics. Still, there are many people that use
            > > mesh runners.
            >
            > I noticed this problem with my Brooks Cascadias over a week in the Grand Canyon. I had fine sand and dust coating my socks and dirty feet after just a few hours of walking. I did not get any blisters but I was not doing high mileage days. Also, I do question how durable the Cascadias would be over a full JMT hike. I'm thinking that I'll take them on the North Lake-South Lake loop and that should provide an indication of how well they will perform over the full JMT. I've read that many PCT thru hikers use Cascadias but they go through six or seven of them during a thru hike.
            >
          • John
            I have too admit Ravi that I have found the sand/dirt/mesh to be a greater issue hiking in the desert SW than the Sierra. It becomes worse in the Sierra later
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 14 5:32 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              I have too admit Ravi that I have found the sand/dirt/mesh to be a greater issue hiking in the desert SW than the Sierra. It becomes worse in the Sierra later in the season as the trails dry to dust.

              John

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@> wrote:
              > > I steer away from
              > > mesh shoes as I really don't like the amount of fine sand they let in.
              > > The few times I get blisters is from sand irritation. Your feet and
              > > socks get absolutely filthy with mesh and require regular washing, not
              > > so with tighter weave fabrics. Still, there are many people that use
              > > mesh runners.
              >
              > I noticed this problem with my Brooks Cascadias over a week in the Grand Canyon. I had fine sand and dust coating my socks and dirty feet after just a few hours of walking. I did not get any blisters but I was not doing high mileage days. Also, I do question how durable the Cascadias would be over a full JMT hike. I'm thinking that I'll take them on the North Lake-South Lake loop and that should provide an indication of how well they will perform over the full JMT. I've read that many PCT thru hikers use Cascadias but they go through six or seven of them during a thru hike.
              >
            • k2poohtri
              The shoes I saw being used on the trail were probably 90% trail runners (including Cascadias) 9.9% boots and .1% sandels.. Waterproof will only make your feet
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 14 7:43 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                The shoes I saw being used on the trail were probably 90% trail runners (including Cascadias) 9.9% boots and .1% sandels.. Waterproof will only make your feet perspire as they hold the moisture in just as well as keeping the h2o out. Your water crossings will come in 3 forms: bridge of some type, rock hop or walk through. Trail runners are more than durable enough for the trail and will dry out in about 30 minutes or so. I highly recommend changing sox out every 2 hours. Your feet will love you and reward you for your attention to them. :-)

                I personally used Salmon XA Comp 6. Salmon was the most common shoe.

                Korina "Guppy"
                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@> wrote:
                > > I steer away from
                > > mesh shoes as I really don't like the amount of fine sand they let in.
                > > The few times I get blisters is from sand irritation. Your feet and
                > > socks get absolutely filthy with mesh and require regular washing, not
                > > so with tighter weave fabrics. Still, there are many people that use
                > > mesh runners.
                >
                > I noticed this problem with my Brooks Cascadias over a week in the Grand Canyon. I had fine sand and dust coating my socks and dirty feet after just a few hours of walking. I did not get any blisters but I was not doing high mileage days. Also, I do question how durable the Cascadias would be over a full JMT hike. I'm thinking that I'll take them on the North Lake-South Lake loop and that should provide an indication of how well they will perform over the full JMT. I've read that many PCT thru hikers use Cascadias but they go through six or seven of them during a thru hike.
                >
              • Frank D
                I have used the older style Vasque Breeze extensively on long PCT hikes and elsewhere. They would last me about 1000 miles. I have a hard time finding a good
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 14 8:54 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  I have used the older style Vasque Breeze extensively on long PCT hikes and elsewhere. They would last me about 1000 miles. I have a hard time finding a good fit and they fit me well with my arch supports. I thought they provided a good mix of sole protection and comfort. Unfortunately they have changed the boot this year and I've just started testing the new style.
                   
                  I prefer a ventilated boot like the Breeze in the Sierra. I don't tend to get blisters so the sand and water don't bother me that much. My water crossing style is to just walk through and then walk my feet dry. I make sure I dry my feet in the sun at stops and clean them well at least once a day.
                   
                  I take a couple of plastic bags to line my boots in case it gets cold and wet but I hardly ever use them except on those middle of the night excursions.
                   
                  Snap
                   
                   


                  On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Darryl <dabrahms@...> wrote:
                   

                  Part 1: I went to see my podiatrist today and discovered that I have to replace my waterproof Vasque hiking boots, which I have been very happy with. We got into a discussion about whether I should take waterproof or non-waterproof boots on the JMT. I told him that I have New Balance Minimus Trail Running shoes for water crossings, but I don't know how much rain is going to be a factor when I where boots. I have read in the group that waterproof hiking boots cause moisture build-up because they do not breathe well, and this increases the propensity for blisters. I'd appreciate your thoughts on which side of the scale the benefits and trade-off between waterproof and non-waterproof boots is most favorable.
                  Part 2: I'd be grateful for opinions on Vasque Breeze boots.
                  Please note, that wearing only trail runners is not an option for me because "I have the flattest feet in the West."
                  Thanks,
                  Darryl


                • John Ladd
                  ... It s certainly my impression that for the last 10 years plus there are way fewer hiking boots than lighter styles of footwear. However, of people who
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 15 9:01 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 7:43 PM, k2poohtri <k2pooh15@...> wrote:
                    The shoes I saw being used on the trail were probably 90% trail runners (including Cascadias) 9.9% boots and .1% sandels..

                    It's certainly my impression that for the last 10 years plus there are way fewer hiking boots than lighter styles of footwear. However, of people who actually completed at least 500 miles of the PCT and AT there was a pretty high proportion of boots.

                    The 2006 survey of hikers who arrived at the northern end of the PCT and the Appalachian Trail and who had covered at least 500 miles (most had covered more) the footwear distribution was

                    Inline image 1

                    (In case graphic doesn't appear, roughly 35% wore hiking boots, 60% hiking or running shoes, 5% sandals.)

                    See: The Impact of Footwear and Packweight on Injury and Illness Among Long-Distance Hikers, Wilderness and Environmental Medicine, 20, 250–256 (2009)


                    The result of the study showed that increasing packweights were -- unsurprisingly -- associated with increasing paresthesias (defined as "a sensation of tingling, pricking, or numbness of a person's skin with no apparent long-term physical effect" per Wikipedia "and usually associated with injury or irritation of a sensory nerve or nerve root" per Mirriam-Webster). 

                    Footwear style was not associated with paresthesias after controlling for pack weight. (The boot wearers tended to have heavier packs.) 

                    Neither packweight not footwear style were significantly associated with musculoskeletal injuries other than paresthesias. I.e., no increase in joint sprains, chronic pain or muscle injuries.

                    John Curran Ladd
                    1616 Castro Street
                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                    415-648-9279
                  • Viraj Ward
                    John, Thanks so much for this link  about boots. I don t know how on earth you, Roleigh,  Ned, and others have the time to find studies like this, but I know
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 15 9:24 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      John,
                      Thanks so much for this link  about boots. I don't know how on earth you, Roleigh,  Ned, and others have the time to find studies like this, but I know that I don't!  I enjoying reading the research, I just don't have the time to find it. The sharing of information from this group helps all us make more informed decisions.
                      I love this group!
                      Viraj
                       

                      From: John Ladd <johnladd@...>
                      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 9:01 AM
                      Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: Waterproof or non-waterproof boots
                       
                      On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 7:43 PM, k2poohtri <k2pooh15@...> wrote:
                      The shoes I saw being used on the trail were probably 90% trail runners (including Cascadias) 9.9% boots and .1% sandels..
                      It's certainly my impression that for the last 10 years plus there are way fewer hiking boots than lighter styles of footwear. However, of people who actually completed at least 500 miles of the PCT and AT there was a pretty high proportion of boots.

                      The 2006 survey of hikers who arrived at the northern end of the PCT and the Appalachian Trail and who had covered at least 500 miles (most had covered more) the footwear distribution was

                      Inline image 1

                      (In case graphic doesn't appear, roughly 35% wore hiking boots, 60% hiking or running shoes, 5% sandals.)

                      See: The Impact of Footwear and Packweight on Injury and Illness Among Long-Distance Hikers, Wilderness and Environmental Medicine, 20, 250–256 (2009)


                      The result of the study showed that increasing packweights were -- unsurprisingly -- associated with increasing paresthesias (defined as "a sensation of tingling, pricking, or numbness of a person's skin with no apparent long-term physical effect" per Wikipedia "and usually associated with injury or irritation of a sensory nerve or nerve root" per Mirriam-Webster). 

                      Footwear style was not associated with paresthesias after controlling for pack weight. (The boot wearers tended to have heavier packs.) 

                      Neither packweight not footwear style were significantly associated with musculoskeletal injuries other than paresthesias. I.e., no increase in joint sprains, chronic pain or muscle injuries.

                      John Curran Ladd 1616 Castro Street San Francisco, CA  94114-3707 415-648-9279
                    • John
                      I too thought the initial statistics were skewed. Seems like there might be a fine line distinction between low top hiking shoes and running shoes though.
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 15 9:56 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I too thought the initial statistics were skewed. Seems like there might be a fine line distinction between "low top hiking shoes" and running shoes though.

                        John

                      • Robert
                        Interesting survey! The ratios come fairly close to what I have been seen over the last few years, with probably a little higher ratio of boots along just the
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 15 10:02 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Interesting survey! The ratios come fairly close to what I have been seen over the last few years, with probably a little higher ratio of boots along just the JMT. A lot of your long distance ( over 500 miles ), hikers have definitely trended towards lighter packs and footwear. Most people only doing the 220 miles of the JMT are generally a little more limited in their overall hiking time and tend to pack less for speed and putting in miles and more for their overall enjoyment and safety concerns than a PCT or AT through hiker. There is definitely something to learn from the through hikers techniques even on shorter hikes like the JMT, but everyone has to decide what is right for them in the end.

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 7:43 PM, k2poohtri <k2pooh15@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > The shoes I saw being used on the trail were probably 90% trail runners
                          > > (including Cascadias) 9.9% boots and .1% sandels..
                          >
                          >
                          > It's certainly my impression that for the last 10 years plus there are way
                          > fewer hiking boots than lighter styles of footwear. However, of people who
                          > actually completed at least 500 miles of the PCT and AT there was a pretty
                          > high proportion of boots.
                          >
                          > The 2006 survey of hikers who arrived at the northern end of the PCT and
                          > the Appalachian Trail and who had covered at least 500 miles (most had
                          > covered more) the footwear distribution was
                          >
                          > [image: Inline image 1]
                          >
                          > (In case graphic doesn't appear, roughly 35% wore hiking boots, 60% hiking
                          > or running shoes, 5% sandals.)
                          >
                          > See: The Impact of Footwear and Packweight on Injury and Illness Among
                          > Long-Distance Hikers, Wilderness and Environmental Medicine, 20, 250–256
                          > (2009)
                          >
                          > http://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(09)70129-2/fulltext
                          >
                          > The result of the study showed that increasing packweights were --
                          > unsurprisingly -- associated with increasing paresthesias (defined as "a
                          > sensation of tingling, pricking, or numbness of a person's skin with no
                          > apparent long-term physical effect" per Wikipedia "and usually associated
                          > with injury or irritation of a sensory nerve or nerve root" per
                          > Mirriam-Webster).
                          >
                          > Footwear style was not associated with paresthesias after controlling for
                          > pack weight. (The boot wearers tended to have heavier packs.)
                          >
                          > Neither packweight not footwear style were significantly associated with
                          > musculoskeletal injuries other than paresthesias. I.e., no increase in
                          > joint sprains, chronic pain or muscle injuries.
                          >
                          > John Curran Ladd
                          > 1616 Castro Street
                          > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                          > 415-648-9279
                          >
                        • John Ladd
                          One added item worth mentioning. in this study 86% of the hikers had experienced blisters along the route. They seem not to have analyzed whether there was an
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 15 10:36 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            One added item worth mentioning. in this study 86% of the hikers had experienced blisters along the route. They seem not to have analyzed whether there was an association of blisters with packweight or footwear.


                          • Robert
                            I suspect the blisters were from pushing too far, too fast, too early before getting the feet toughened up regardless of the shoes or pack weight. The pull to
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 15 11:06 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I suspect the blisters were from pushing too far, too fast, too early before getting the feet toughened up regardless of the shoes or pack weight. The pull to not get too far behind early on and the heat of S. Cal plays a big role in blisters on the PCT anyways.

                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > One added item worth mentioning. in this study 86% of the hikers had
                              > experienced blisters along the route. They seem not to have analyzed
                              > whether there was an association of blisters with packweight or footwear.
                              >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                            • John
                              After 500 to 2500 miles I m a little surprised the blister rate isn t 100%, whether it be from sand, wet, not being able to change socks 4 times a day etc.
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 15 11:35 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                After 500 to 2500 miles I'm a little surprised the blister rate isn't 100%, whether it be from sand, wet, not being able to change socks 4 times a day etc. Even the 14% may have had some sort of blister early on, to minor to report at the end.

                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I suspect the blisters were from pushing too far, too fast, too early before getting the feet toughened up regardless of the shoes or pack weight. The pull to not get too far behind early on and the heat of S. Cal plays a big role in blisters on the PCT anyways.
                                >
                                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > One added item worth mentioning. in this study 86% of the hikers had
                                > > experienced blisters along the route. They seem not to have analyzed
                                > > whether there was an association of blisters with packweight or footwear.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • cjoslyn99
                                I bought Vasque Breeze and used them on the JMT in snow and wet trails in mid-July 2011 (as far as I got) and 2012 in no snow/wet conditions in mid-July.
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 15 11:39 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I bought Vasque Breeze and used them on the JMT in snow and wet trails
                                  in mid-July 2011 (as far as I got) and 2012 in no snow/wet conditions in
                                  mid-July. Generally good experience w/ them. Very little break in
                                  needed and very comfortable for general hiking and short backpacking
                                  trips.

                                  On the JMT in the wet snow, they didn't keep my feet totally dry but
                                  enough not to be an issue. They were perfect in 2012. Did had to hike
                                  in some rain/hail, but they kept my feet dry and dried out fairly
                                  quickly when wet. After 2 weeks of constant pounding on the granite, I
                                  found I wanted to have the stiffer last of a true backpacking boot sole.
                                  Never had an issue w/ blisters etc., but my feet were definitely sore at
                                  the end of the day.

                                  I also found they don't provide a lot of ankle support. I rolled my
                                  anke in 2011 and ending up having to exit @VVR...probably nothing the
                                  boot would have prevented on the initial injury (which was a little bit
                                  of a freak accident), but as I had to hike out the last 5-6 miles, I
                                  rolled it another 4-5 times which really hurt and probably made it a lot
                                  worse.




                                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Darryl" wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Part 1: I went to see my podiatrist today and discovered that I have
                                  to replace my waterproof Vasque hiking boots, which I have been very
                                  happy with. We got into a discussion about whether I should take
                                  waterproof or non-waterproof boots on the JMT. I told him that I have
                                  New Balance Minimus Trail Running shoes for water crossings, but I don't
                                  know how much rain is going to be a factor when I where boots. I have
                                  read in the group that waterproof hiking boots cause moisture build-up
                                  because they do not breathe well, and this increases the propensity for
                                  blisters. I'd appreciate your thoughts on which side of the scale the
                                  benefits and trade-off between waterproof and non-waterproof boots is
                                  most favorable.
                                  > Part 2: I'd be grateful for opinions on Vasque Breeze boots.
                                  > Please note, that wearing only trail runners is not an option for me
                                  because "I have the flattest feet in the West."
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > Darryl
                                  >
                                • Frank D
                                  Not 100%. In 3 PCT chunk hikes ranging from 500 to 1700 miles for a total of 3000 miles I never got a single blister. I got some in training before the hikes
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 15 8:19 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Not 100%. In 3 PCT chunk hikes ranging from 500 to 1700 miles for a total of 3000 miles I never got a single blister. I got some in training before the hikes when experimenting with footwear but none during the hikes. My feet were filthy in the SoCal sand and wet every day for 3 weeks in the Sierra snow melt.
                                    I think I am just lucky that I don't tend to get blisters and I found a footwear system that works for me.
                                     
                                    Snap
                                     


                                    On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 11:35 AM, John <johndittli@...> wrote:
                                     


                                    After 500 to 2500 miles I'm a little surprised the blister rate isn't 100%, whether it be from sand, wet, not being able to change socks 4 times a day etc. Even the 14% may have had some sort of blister early on, to minor to report at the end.



                                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I suspect the blisters were from pushing too far, too fast, too early before getting the feet toughened up regardless of the shoes or pack weight. The pull to not get too far behind early on and the heat of S. Cal plays a big role in blisters on the PCT anyways.
                                    >
                                    > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > One added item worth mentioning. in this study 86% of the hikers had
                                    > > experienced blisters along the route. They seem not to have analyzed
                                    > > whether there was an association of blisters with packweight or footwear.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >


                                  • Frank D
                                    I should mention that the Vasque Breeze comes in both goretex lined waterproof and non-waterproof versions. I have only used the non-waterproof version. I
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 15 8:24 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I should mention that the Vasque Breeze comes in both goretex lined waterproof and non-waterproof versions.
                                       
                                      I have only used the non-waterproof version.
                                       
                                      I don't see the purpose of getting ventilated boot with a waterproof liner.
                                       
                                      Snap


                                      On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Frank D <nccctsd.groups@...> wrote:
                                      I have used the older style Vasque Breeze extensively on long PCT hikes and elsewhere. They would last me about 1000 miles. I have a hard time finding a good fit and they fit me well with my arch supports. I thought they provided a good mix of sole protection and comfort. Unfortunately they have changed the boot this year and I've just started testing the new style.
                                       
                                      I prefer a ventilated boot like the Breeze in the Sierra. I don't tend to get blisters so the sand and water don't bother me that much. My water crossing style is to just walk through and then walk my feet dry. I make sure I dry my feet in the sun at stops and clean them well at least once a day.
                                       
                                      I take a couple of plastic bags to line my boots in case it gets cold and wet but I hardly ever use them except on those middle of the night excursions.
                                       
                                      Snap
                                       
                                       


                                      On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Darryl <dabrahms@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      Part 1: I went to see my podiatrist today and discovered that I have to replace my waterproof Vasque hiking boots, which I have been very happy with. We got into a discussion about whether I should take waterproof or non-waterproof boots on the JMT. I told him that I have New Balance Minimus Trail Running shoes for water crossings, but I don't know how much rain is going to be a factor when I where boots. I have read in the group that waterproof hiking boots cause moisture build-up because they do not breathe well, and this increases the propensity for blisters. I'd appreciate your thoughts on which side of the scale the benefits and trade-off between waterproof and non-waterproof boots is most favorable.
                                      Part 2: I'd be grateful for opinions on Vasque Breeze boots.
                                      Please note, that wearing only trail runners is not an option for me because "I have the flattest feet in the West."
                                      Thanks,
                                      Darryl



                                    • Ned Tibbits
                                      I’d like to add a little info from our end being a wilderness school that has trained a lot of hikers over the years... - over the last 31 years of
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 16 1:44 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I’d like to add a little info from our end being a wilderness school that has trained a lot of hikers over the years...
                                         
                                        - over the last 31 years of operation, I have never gotten a blister. Prior to that, I never got one on my two thrus of the PCT and CDT.
                                         
                                        - I’ve always worn “heavy leather,” traditional-styled boots and carried pack weights between 55 and 80 pounds on our skills instructional courses lasting up to 3 weeks on-trail.
                                         
                                        - almost to the person over the years, every one got blisters on their feet. Most hiked in non-traditional footwear ranging from low-tops, to street hikers, to trailrunners, to mid-weight composite boots. Almost all had done pre-course hikes to get in shape for the course.
                                         
                                        - I always opt for a dry creek crossing route if I can find a safe one. When I have to wade through a whitewater creek during the spring sierra thaw, I take my socks off, put my boots back on, and wade across, only to change socks a few times over the rest of the morning.
                                         
                                        - pretty much all the time I’ve got some sort of gaiter over the top of my boots to keep stray debris and water from getting in. Sweat and moisture has never been a problem as it seems to evaporate out the top of the boot via the socks. My feet are always dry and clean.
                                         
                                        - those students wearing Gore-tex in their shoes usually had wet feet, especially when we were often walking over snow and in trail-creeks in the spring. The membrane gets dirt in its pores and wicks water into the foot, we figure.
                                         
                                        - I have often stepped on a small rock or root that caused my ankle to suddenly rock over laterally (I can feel my ankle hit the side of my boot). If I hadn’t been wearing thick leather boots, I would have most certainly twisted my ankles on each of our trips! I don’t know how backpackers don’t injure their ankles because I’m cautious about where I step, too!
                                         
                                        - a light shoe that can dry very quickly usually offers less protection for the foot from lateral boulders, forward toe impacts, and plantar pounding (stepping on rocks that you can feel right through the sole of the shoe). Yes, they dry fast and they are light, but they let dirt and water in and wear out fast, too. Our students say they last about 400 to 500 miles, where after they have to replace them, but my boots last about 5 years of year ‘round service before I have to have the soles replaced.
                                         
                                        - occasionally, over the course of a week or two of wet-trail or snow-trail use, my leather boots begin to allow a little water in. I find this out at night when I take the boots off. (The socks dry out over night in the footbox of my down bag.) When this happens, I just apply a little “boot oil” and all is fine for another week or two.
                                         
                                        These notes are about what we have had or seen in our experience. Yours may vary...
                                         
                                         
                                        Ned Tibbits, Director
                                        Mountain Education
                                        www.mountaineducation.org
                                         
                                        From: John
                                        Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:35 AM
                                        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Waterproof or non-waterproof boots
                                         
                                         


                                        After 500 to 2500 miles I'm a little surprised the blister rate isn't 100%, whether it be from sand, wet, not being able to change socks 4 times a day etc. Even the 14% may have had some sort of blister early on, to minor to report at the end.

                                        --- In mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        > I suspect the blisters were
                                        from pushing too far, too fast, too early before getting the feet toughened up regardless of the shoes or pack weight. The pull to not get too far behind early on and the heat of S. Cal plays a big role in blisters on the PCT anyways.
                                        >
                                        > --- In
                                        href="mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com">mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > One added item
                                        worth mentioning. in this study 86% of the hikers had
                                        > > experienced
                                        blisters along the route. They seem not to have analyzed
                                        > > whether
                                        there was an association of blisters with packweight or footwear.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >

                                      • ptoddf
                                        Ned says heavy leather, 55 to 80 lbs on long trails with feet always dry. Works for him but if I tried it I d be in for feet transplants. My feet run very hot,
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 16 6:59 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Ned says heavy leather, 55 to 80 lbs on long trails with feet always dry. Works for him but if I tried it I'd be in for feet transplants. My feet run very hot, so even higher topped, scree cuffed light hikers are too hot. Waterproof or Goretex lined is impossibly hot for me.

                                          I started with New Balance running shoes, they were running a little wider then. I noticed that their tops amounted to a network of punched out straps with fabric underneath covering openings between "straps." I realized that if I cut out the fabric underneath across the openings in the upper l would have....sandals, the coolest possible footwear.

                                          I'm now on my 4th pair of Chaco Z-1's with aggressive Vibram sole. This is what works for my feet, proving that one type of footwear truly does not fit all. And no, never a blister and feet are cool and dry. 



                                          Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Express™, an AT&T LTE smartphone
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.