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Woodstoves and JMT

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  • klepperpeter
    Could someone help with the regulations and practicality of using an environmentally friendly woodstove such as the BushBuddy on a through hike of the JMT? I
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 7, 2008
      Could someone help with the regulations and practicality of using an
      environmentally friendly woodstove such as the BushBuddy on a through
      hike of the JMT?

      I understand there are restrictions above a certain altitude? Are wood
      stoves banned outright? My thoughts are to combine a Bushbuddy with an
      alcohol or gas stove to save fuel weight.

      thanks, Peter [Australia]
    • Jennifer
      All wood fires are prohibited along the JMT above 10,000 feet in elevation. It s my understanding that this would include wood stoves. The wood is harder to
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
        All wood fires are prohibited along the JMT above 10,000 feet in
        elevation. It's my understanding that this would include wood stoves.
        The wood is harder to find at that elevation, and nature has a heck of
        a time replenishing it at that elevation.

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "klepperpeter" <klepperpeter@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Could someone help with the regulations and practicality of using an
        > environmentally friendly woodstove such as the BushBuddy on a through
        > hike of the JMT?
        >
        > I understand there are restrictions above a certain altitude? Are
        wood
        > stoves banned outright? My thoughts are to combine a Bushbuddy with
        an
        > alcohol or gas stove to save fuel weight.
        >
        > thanks, Peter [Australia]
        >
      • Ima Person
        Peter, just my opinion here.   Any Rangers that you might encounter along the trail may give you a talk about leave no trace and fire precautions.  They
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
          Peter,

          just my opinion here.   Any Rangers that you might encounter along the trail may give you a talk about "leave no trace" and fire precautions.  They are VERY fire sensitive in this area so any device that would create embers/ash may encounter resistance or close scrutiny.  As long as you are demonstrating safe use, and there isn't some sort of burn ban on, you probably should be okay.

          It would not surprise me if there are Pacific Crest Trail hikers that use something similar to conserve weight so the stove should not be a complete surprise to anyone but I didn't see anyone using such a stove while I was hiking this past summer, but I was early season and didn't see many people.  My preference was to camp high up, to position myself for crossing passes in the mornings so there would have been only a few times where I could have used such a stove because of altitude restrictions.

          This is the excerpt from the Yosemite National Park website

          Minimize Campfire Impacts
          * Campfires can cause lasting impacts to the backcountry. Instead, consider using a lightweight stove for cooking and a candle lantern for light.
          * Use established fire rings or fire pans.
          * Keep fires small. Only use sticks from the ground that can be broken by hand.
          * Burn all wood and coals to ash and put out campfires completely.
          King Sequoia park may have different restrictions, but you should be okay as long as there is not some sort of campfire ban at the time you are hiking.  I saw alot of fuel and it was very dry so using the stove at the allowed altitudes should be quite nice.

          Al

           


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: klepperpeter <klepperpeter@...>
          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2008 10:33:16 PM
          Subject: [John Muir Trail] Woodstoves and JMT


          Could someone help with the regulations and practicality of using an
          environmentally friendly woodstove such as the BushBuddy on a through
          hike of the JMT?

          I understand there are restrictions above a certain altitude? Are wood
          stoves banned outright? My thoughts are to combine a Bushbuddy with an
          alcohol or gas stove to save fuel weight.

          thanks, Peter [Australia]






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Roleigh Martin
          Some of the wood stoves for backpackers have an optional floor to protect the environment beneath where one uses the stove. I saw the option at a web site 2
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
            Some of the wood stoves for backpackers have an optional "floor" to protect
            the environment beneath where one uses the stove. I saw the option at a web
            site 2 weeks ago -- it was about the Titanium stove equivalent of the
            Caldera stove, I forget who sells this, you could ask AntiGravityGear.com,
            they'd know.

            On 9/8/08, Ima Person <imaperson91@...> wrote:
            >
            > Peter,
            >
            > just my opinion here. Any Rangers that you might encounter along the
            > trail may give you a talk about "leave no trace" and fire precautions. They
            > are VERY fire sensitive in this area so any device that would create
            > embers/ash may encounter resistance or close scrutiny. As long as you are
            > demonstrating safe use, and there isn't some sort of burn ban on, you
            > probably should be okay.
            >
            > It would not surprise me if there are Pacific Crest Trail hikers that use
            > something similar to conserve weight so the stove should not be a complete
            > surprise to anyone but I didn't see anyone using such a stove while I was
            > hiking this past summer, but I was early season and didn't see many
            > people. My preference was to camp high up, to position myself for crossing
            > passes in the mornings so there would have been only a few times where I
            > could have used such a stove because of altitude restrictions.
            >
            > This is the excerpt from the Yosemite National Park website
            >
            > Minimize Campfire Impacts
            > * Campfires can cause lasting impacts to the backcountry. Instead,
            > consider using a lightweight stove for cooking and a candle lantern for
            > light.
            > * Use established fire rings or fire pans.
            > * Keep fires small. Only use sticks from the ground that can be
            > broken by hand.
            > * Burn all wood and coals to ash and put out campfires completely.
            > King Sequoia park may have different restrictions, but you should be okay
            > as long as there is not some sort of campfire ban at the time you are
            > hiking. I saw alot of fuel and it was very dry so using the stove at the
            > allowed altitudes should be quite nice.
            >
            > Al
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: klepperpeter <klepperpeter@...>
            > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2008 10:33:16 PM
            > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Woodstoves and JMT
            >
            >
            > Could someone help with the regulations and practicality of using an
            > environmentally friendly woodstove such as the BushBuddy on a through
            > hike of the JMT?
            >
            > I understand there are restrictions above a certain altitude? Are wood
            > stoves banned outright? My thoughts are to combine a Bushbuddy with an
            > alcohol or gas stove to save fuel weight.
            >
            > thanks, Peter [Australia]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • klepperpeter
            Thanks people for your advice on woodstoves. Environmentally the stove I am looking at, the Bushbuddy, leaves no footprint and is probably as safe, or safer,
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
              Thanks people for your advice on woodstoves. Environmentally the
              stove I am looking at, the Bushbuddy, leaves no footprint and is
              probably as safe, or safer, than alcohol and gas stoves.
              It would seem to be a trade-off between the weight of extra fuel [
              gas or alcohol ]which you would carry without such a stove, and the
              woodstove which is 7oz, and the days I plan to be below the altitude
              restriction.
              I understand the fire sensitivity [ we get the odd bushfire in
              Australia]!

              Cheers, Peter


              -- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Roleigh Martin" <roleigh@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Some of the wood stoves for backpackers have an optional "floor" to
              protect
              > the environment beneath where one uses the stove. I saw the option
              at a web
              > site 2 weeks ago -- it was about the Titanium stove equivalent of
              the
              > Caldera stove, I forget who sells this, you could ask
              AntiGravityGear.com,
              > they'd know.
              >
              > On 9/8/08, Ima Person <imaperson91@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Peter,
              > >
              > > just my opinion here. Any Rangers that you might encounter
              along the
              > > trail may give you a talk about "leave no trace" and fire
              precautions. They
              > > are VERY fire sensitive in this area so any device that would
              create
              > > embers/ash may encounter resistance or close scrutiny. As long
              as you are
              > > demonstrating safe use, and there isn't some sort of burn ban on,
              you
              > > probably should be okay.
              > >
              > > It would not surprise me if there are Pacific Crest Trail hikers
              that use
              > > something similar to conserve weight so the stove should not be a
              complete
              > > surprise to anyone but I didn't see anyone using such a stove
              while I was
              > > hiking this past summer, but I was early season and didn't see
              many
              > > people. My preference was to camp high up, to position myself
              for crossing
              > > passes in the mornings so there would have been only a few times
              where I
              > > could have used such a stove because of altitude restrictions.
              > >
              > > This is the excerpt from the Yosemite National Park website
              > >
              > > Minimize Campfire Impacts
              > > * Campfires can cause lasting impacts to the backcountry.
              Instead,
              > > consider using a lightweight stove for cooking and a candle
              lantern for
              > > light.
              > > * Use established fire rings or fire pans.
              > > * Keep fires small. Only use sticks from the ground that
              can be
              > > broken by hand.
              > > * Burn all wood and coals to ash and put out campfires
              completely.
              > > King Sequoia park may have different restrictions, but you should
              be okay
              > > as long as there is not some sort of campfire ban at the time you
              are
              > > hiking. I saw alot of fuel and it was very dry so using the
              stove at the
              > > allowed altitudes should be quite nice.
              > >
              > > Al
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message ----
              > > From: klepperpeter <klepperpeter@...>
              > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2008 10:33:16 PM
              > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Woodstoves and JMT
              > >
              > >
              > > Could someone help with the regulations and practicality of using
              an
              > > environmentally friendly woodstove such as the BushBuddy on a
              through
              > > hike of the JMT?
              > >
              > > I understand there are restrictions above a certain altitude? Are
              wood
              > > stoves banned outright? My thoughts are to combine a Bushbuddy
              with an
              > > alcohol or gas stove to save fuel weight.
              > >
              > > thanks, Peter [Australia]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Jim W
              Due to extreme fire danger this year wood fires have been prohibited BELOW 9000 feet along the JMT. Then of course there s the long standing ban ABOVE 10,000
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
                Due to extreme fire danger this year wood fires have been prohibited
                BELOW 9000 feet along the JMT. Then of course there's the long
                standing ban ABOVE 10,000 feet to prevent "resource overuse". So
                basically you are limited to a narrow elevation band.

                I considered using my wood burning Sierra Zip stove or buying a
                Caldera Cone. I'm very glad that I let my inner gear geek buy a
                Jetboil canister stove instead. For a 15 day trip- cooking 12 dinners
                and breakfasts I used 250 grams of fuel. Most days I boiled at least
                6 cups of water- sometimes 8. I also simmered the stove 15 minutes
                ten times while steam baking muffins. A woodstove would not have been
                nearly so quick or easy. The weight savings would have been only
                about the 12 ounces of a full 250 gram canister.
              • dc t
                The bottom line  is, burning wood  is forbidden above 10,000 regardless if it is in  a  stove or not. It has to do with the fact that the trees grow very
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
                  The bottom line  is, burning wood  is forbidden above 10,000 regardless if it is in  a  stove or not. It has to do with the fact that the trees grow very slowly and  the growing season is very short. Our impact with fire takes many  years to regenerate.

                  --- On Mon, 9/8/08, Jennifer <jtislerics@...> wrote:

                  From: Jennifer <jtislerics@...>
                  Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Woodstoves and JMT
                  To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 8:22 AM






                  All wood fires are prohibited along the JMT above 10,000 feet in
                  elevation. It's my understanding that this would include wood stoves.
                  The wood is harder to find at that elevation, and nature has a heck of
                  a time replenishing it at that elevation.

                  --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, "klepperpeter" <klepperpeter@ ...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Could someone help with the regulations and practicality of using an
                  > environmentally friendly woodstove such as the BushBuddy on a through
                  > hike of the JMT?
                  >
                  > I understand there are restrictions above a certain altitude? Are
                  wood
                  > stoves banned outright? My thoughts are to combine a Bushbuddy with
                  an
                  > alcohol or gas stove to save fuel weight.
                  >
                  > thanks, Peter [Australia]
                  >


















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Roleigh Martin
                  I found the link for the titanium wood stove with an optional floor http://www.titaniumgoat.com/TiTri.html Optional floors are also available for your Ti-Tri
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
                    I found the link for the titanium wood stove with an optional floor

                    http://www.titaniumgoat.com/TiTri.html

                    Optional floors are also available for your Ti-Tri system, the floor will
                    roll up with the cone for easy storage. The floors
                    allow for easier burning on consolidated snow, and help prevent resource
                    damages when burning wood in fragile
                    ecosystems. If you plan on burning wood with out the optional floor, we
                    recommend careful site selection and building
                    a bed of rocks under your Ti-Tri to prevent a "Scorched-Earth" scenario in
                    the back country. Make sure to dismantle
                    the rock bed and "naturalize" the area before you leave, we dont need more
                    fire pits.

                    On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 9:21 PM, dc t <dc_t63@...> wrote:

                    > The bottom line is, burning wood is forbidden above 10,000 regardless if
                    > it is in a stove or not. It has to do with the fact that the trees grow
                    > very slowly and the growing season is very short. Our impact with fire
                    > takes many years to regenerate.
                    >
                    > --- On Mon, 9/8/08, Jennifer <jtislerics@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Jennifer <jtislerics@...>
                    > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Woodstoves and JMT
                    > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 8:22 AM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > All wood fires are prohibited along the JMT above 10,000 feet in
                    > elevation. It's my understanding that this would include wood stoves.
                    > The wood is harder to find at that elevation, and nature has a heck of
                    > a time replenishing it at that elevation.
                    >
                    > --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, "klepperpeter" <klepperpeter@ ...>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Could someone help with the regulations and practicality of using an
                    > > environmentally friendly woodstove such as the BushBuddy on a through
                    > > hike of the JMT?
                    > >
                    > > I understand there are restrictions above a certain altitude? Are
                    > wood
                    > > stoves banned outright? My thoughts are to combine a Bushbuddy with
                    > an
                    > > alcohol or gas stove to save fuel weight.
                    > >
                    > > thanks, Peter [Australia]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Roleigh Martin
                    ps, the TriTri supports 3 fuels (alcohol, esbit cube, wood): three fuel Caldera system. This new cook system not only allows you to get the most efficiency out
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
                      ps, the TriTri supports 3 fuels (alcohol, esbit cube, wood):

                      three fuel Caldera system. This
                      new cook system not only allows you to get the most efficiency out of your
                      alcohol and Esbit fuel, but also allows you to burn
                      wood! No other system gives you this kind of fuel versatility, at these
                      weights.

                      http://www.titaniumgoat.com/TiTri.html

                      *Specifications:
                      *Complete system including pot, stove,
                      cone, fuel bottle, Esbit and wood
                      components, bag and cup for carrying
                      Caldera cone: 9.5oz for the 900 and 7oz
                      for the 550.

                      On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 9:21 PM, dc t <dc_t63@...> wrote:

                      > The bottom line is, burning wood is forbidden above 10,000 regardless if
                      > it is in a stove or not. It has to do with the fact that the trees grow
                      > very slowly and the growing season is very short. Our impact with fire
                      > takes many years to regenerate.
                      >
                      > --- On Mon, 9/8/08, Jennifer <jtislerics@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: Jennifer <jtislerics@...>
                      > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Woodstoves and JMT
                      > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 8:22 AM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > All wood fires are prohibited along the JMT above 10,000 feet in
                      > elevation. It's my understanding that this would include wood stoves.
                      > The wood is harder to find at that elevation, and nature has a heck of
                      > a time replenishing it at that elevation.
                      >
                      > --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, "klepperpeter" <klepperpeter@ ...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Could someone help with the regulations and practicality of using an
                      > > environmentally friendly woodstove such as the BushBuddy on a through
                      > > hike of the JMT?
                      > >
                      > > I understand there are restrictions above a certain altitude? Are
                      > wood
                      > > stoves banned outright? My thoughts are to combine a Bushbuddy with
                      > an
                      > > alcohol or gas stove to save fuel weight.
                      > >
                      > > thanks, Peter [Australia]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • sim ong
                      Hi All JMT ers   Burning wood in general produces more particulates than using camping stoves; therefore, it is less environmental friendly than using
                      Message 10 of 11 , Sep 11, 2008
                        Hi All JMT'ers

                        Burning wood in general produces more particulates than using camping stoves; therefore, it is less "environmental friendly" than using camping stoves.��Some backcountry rangers will preferred that we do not burn any wood anywhere including in places where burning wood is allowed.� Of course this is only their personal preferences.

                        Starting a fire, regardless, if it is camping stoves or wood burning stoves, care must be taken to avoid starting a wild fire.� Last month, as I was leaving a swimming hole at Old Oak Flat Road in Yosemite, I went to check out a possible campsite.� I noticed there was a nice fire ring under an overhang rock.� Nice idea to hide from the wind, I thought in my mind.� While I was standing over the fire ring, a gust of wind kicked up, and I noticed ambers were being fanned by the wind.� I quickly fetch some water from the swimming hole nearby and put out the fire.� How careless �I thought� of the previous campers behavior?� They should have put out the fire thoroughly before leaving the site.� I certainly do not want to be the person responsible for starting a forest fire.

                        I hiked the JMT last summer in 17 days from YV to Mt.Whitney and I had three nights with campfire.� On numerous nights, I was camped where campfire was prohibited.� Even on the nights when I was permitted to have campfire, I was too tired from the hike that I would just rather go to bed.� From the ecosystem perspective, burning fallen wood is taking nutrients away from the soil and thus taking away the nutrients that nature cycle replenish the soil.� I know one can argue that forest fire, when it happens, are many more times more devastating than the little campfire.� I agree with that rebutting argument.� However, one needs to just take a look at the area around Devil Postpile.� It has been many years since forest fire swept through the area.� Scars are still visible and the trees are far from reaching the height before the fire.� Another perspective is that, we as humans have done irreversible damages to the environment and let us not destroy
                        the little beauty we have left either by carelessness or we felt it is permitted to light a campfire.

                        The John Muir Trail offers it splendor and beauty for all to us enjoy and not for one to destroy.� While we hike the JMT, we will have to keep this in mind the next time we hike.� Campfire or no campfire, wood burning stoves or camping stoves, are the decisions we can make but the environment, plant and trees, do not have such choices.

                        Of course,�no forest fires were started from wood burning stoves, at least from my google search.� I am by no means intended to be so negative about�wood burning and wood burning stoves.� This is solely my own perspective and you are certainly allowed to have yours.

                        Sim

                        --- On Mon, 9/8/08, Jim W <jimqpublic@...> wrote:

                        From: Jim W <jimqpublic@...>
                        Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Woodstoves and JMT
                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 3:43 PM






                        Due to extreme fire danger this year wood fires have been prohibited
                        BELOW 9000 feet along the JMT. Then of course there's the long
                        standing ban ABOVE 10,000 feet to prevent "resource overuse". So
                        basically you are limited to a narrow elevation band.

                        I considered using my wood burning Sierra Zip stove or buying a
                        Caldera Cone. I'm very glad that I let my inner gear geek buy a
                        Jetboil canister stove instead. For a 15 day trip- cooking 12 dinners
                        and breakfasts I used 250 grams of fuel. Most days I boiled at least
                        6 cups of water- sometimes 8. I also simmered the stove 15 minutes
                        ten times while steam baking muffins. A woodstove would not have been
                        nearly so quick or easy. The weight savings would have been only
                        about the 12 ounces of a full 250 gram canister.














                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Brian O'Kelly
                        Hi John, Send me an email and we ll get you all the photos and links from the... LostHillsGuys 2008 JMT Tour Brian O Kelly losthillsguy@sbcglobal.net [Non-text
                        Message 11 of 11 , Sep 11, 2008
                          Hi John,

                          Send me an email and we'll get you all the photos and links from the...

                          LostHillsGuys 2008 JMT Tour

                          Brian O'Kelly
                          losthillsguy@...


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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