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Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: Food Drop at Onion Valley/Kearsarge Pass

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  • Danica Berner
    Chris, We have never had any barrel, buried or otherwise in the Wilderness or at the pack station in Onion Valley, so not clear on how Paul can say this.  
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 24, 2013
      Chris,
      We have never had any barrel, buried or otherwise in the Wilderness or at the pack station in Onion Valley, so not clear on how Paul can say this.   Caches are illegal.  We  are required to meet our hikers within a 24 hour window as anything after 24 hours is considered a cache, as you probably already know.  We already offer the resupply hike in services at the station for $75-$80 for most and some are $125.00.  We are licensed by both the Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Parks, and the Inyo National Forest.  I think for the same price as Paul, we also offer a hot shower.  There is no other entity commercially licensed to do business at the Onion Valley trailhead area with resupplying JMT hikers that I know of.  The bear- boxes that were left at our driveway in 2012 by someone I don't believe are currently there now.   The bear-boxes over near the trailhead and campground area are for the folks who use the campground or stay overnight in their vehicles at the trailhead; they are not for storage of  resupply deliveries  to JMT hikers to my knowledge. Maybe the JMT hikers are not aware that we provide hike in services that are very economical.  We charge a flat fee, not for each parcel or bucket.  We also hold the resupplies for as long as one needs.  We even ship them back to folks that can't retrieve them, if they wish us to do so.   We also pack resupplies into the HighCountry with shared loads which saves folks money and a hike in and out.  We do regularly pack in Resupplies by reservation and are allocated a specific amount of usage by the Inyo NF.  Resupplies then are one type of pack trip, since we are a complete outfitter-guide.  We try and help the best we can.  Anyone can call us with a date in mind and ask if we can provide a discounted amount.  There are a few options available with secure delivery and storage, and hospitality efforts such as showers and meals.  Hope this is of help to you and others.  Our toll-free number is 800-962-0775 if you would like to discuss your concerns with me directly. We also pack out all the debris for the Ranger that he collects at no charge to the Park Service, haul it to the dump in Independence and pay that fee there ourselves.
      We also hike ourselves and sometimes walk with the pack animals due to the steep terrain and long days.  Brian Berner was a hiker on the JMT back in 1975, came out at Onion Valley, liked it so well, asked for a job at the cafe/store and was hired. The owner also owned the pack station there. In 1993, he bought the pack station.
       
      Danica Berner

      --- On Sun, 3/24/13, Chris <cehauser1@...> wrote:

      From: Chris <cehauser1@...>
      Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Food Drop at Onion Valley/Kearsarge Pass
      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, March 24, 2013, 6:15 PM

       
      Don:

      Yes, I decided to carry enough food, so I won't be hiring anyone to resupply at Onion Valley or Kearsarge Pass. I'm one of the guys doing the joint JMT/HST SoBo, so my last resupply is MTR, then after getting to the top of Whitney, I have a 60 mile walk west across the Sierras to Crescent Meadow. Looks like about 160 miles from MTR to Crescent Meadow. I'm also the same guy who posted a question about scavenging extra food from SoBo hikers nearing the end of their trip at Crabtree Meadow, and I think that might be a decent plan (though a bit risky).

      Yes, there is still uncertainty about the availability of those boxes near Kearsarge Pass Trail, since they were closed in 2012. I think Paul is checking on their planned availability for 2013, and I'll post anything I learn. I did hear from him that the Berners have a buried barrel somewhere in that area, and that is where they drop off their resupplies for hikers who they do not meet directly. Do you or anyone else know anything about that?

      Sorry for my remark about ethics and laws. In hindsight, I see that it was flippant, and not helpful for the discussion. Thanks for not falling for my troll-ish bait. Yes, I agree with what you are saying: rules are made for people who are not ethical, but we
      all need to play by the same rules in order to get along. And yes, I can see the risk of arriving to find a resupply has been removed.

      Cheers,

      Chris.

      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hi Chris,
      >
      > Did you decide just to carry enough food to get you through?
      > Thank you for posting the info about East Side Sierra Shuttle. That was new info to me about them dropping a resupply at Onion Valley. Those Onion Valley bear boxes have always been available to leave resupplies in for later pickup (always advisable to clearly label anything with an intended date of pick up).
      > I am still confused about what bear boxes they were referring to at the Kearsarge/JMT junction as there are none there. The nearest box to that junction is a Charlotte Lake. All the the Kearsarge Lake boxes were either locked up or removed last year due to people abusing them (leaving resupplies for JMT hikers that were never picked up).
      > I know that sometimes the rules seem to make no sense but you have to realize that for every ethical person there is an unethical one who thinks the rules don't apply and think nothing of leaving their trash, unused food etc. (and resupplies never picked up for whatever reason) in a bear box. The back country rangers end up wasting a lot of their limited time hauling trash back to their cabins for pickup by a packer.
      > I respect your right to not be concerned if a business/person had a permit to operate or not. I'm glad you added the thought about the lack of permit might possibly jeopardizing your
      > resupply. There is always the chance your resupply would be jeopardized by lack of adherence to the rules or simply by the numerous unethical backpackers out there who would think nothing walking off with your food.
      > Hope you have a great trip.
      >
      > Don
      >
      >
      > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      > From: cehauser1@...
      > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 06:29:30 +0000
      > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Food Drop at Onion Valley/Kearsarge Pass
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      > Don:
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      > Thanks so much for the suggestions. I had already chosen to not do a resupply out of Onion Valley (I don't want to add 15 miles to my already tight schedule), but I still wanted to post that info for the group. I've been in contact with Paul, and will post anything that I learn, especially regarding the availability of those bear boxes for 2013.
      >
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      > One thing I have learned: I don't know if the rules are more relaxed on Forest Service land, but Paul says he's not seen rangers removing his resupply caches from the bear boxes at the Onion Valley trailhead. He saw one of his customer's cache stay in a bear box, and he re-dated it repeatedly for a month, before he himself removed it, deciding the hiker had abandoned it.
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      > Regarding the commercial operations permit: I'm an ethical and law-abiding person, but from my standpoint many of these types of bureaucratic rules go beyond common-sense. Maybe I'm missing something, but if I were shopping around for a resupply service for the Onion Valley area, it wouldn't matter to me if that business or person were permitted by the Park Service, unless I thought not being permitted might somehow jeopardize my resupply.
      >
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      > Cheers,
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      > Chris.
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      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Don" <amrowinc@> wrote:
      >
      > >
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      > > Chis, Maybe I missed something but you might want to find out exactly what bear boxes they are talking about as there are none at that location that I'm aware of (I know that just because I'm not aware of any that doesn't mean much). There are issues also about leaving a resupply in bear boxes--not allowed in general. Third, a permit/license is a requirement for commercial operations up there-I would ask how the shuttle service is handling that. It's possible they are sub-contracting a packer but it's worth asking about.
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      > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cehauser1@> wrote:
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      > > > This may have been posted already, but I recently emailed East Side Sierra Shuttle about mailing them a resupply package for delivery to a bear box at the Onion Valley trailhead or on the JMT/PCT, and I got this response:
      >
      > > >
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      > > >
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      > > > $40 to Onion Valley and for $240 we can deliver one to the bear boxes at the intersection of the Kearsarge Pass trail and the JMT.
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > Paul Fretheim
      >
      > > > East Side Sierra Shuttle
      >
      > > > paul@
      >
      > > > 760-878-8047
      >
      > > > http://eastsidesierrashuttle.com
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >

    • Roleigh Martin
      Thanks for posting this, Danica. For myself, I have been very pleased with her packer services, having used them for four to five years now. Danica, we ll
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 25, 2013
        Thanks for posting this, Danica.  For myself, I have been very pleased with her packer services, having used them for four to five years now.  

        Danica, we'll make a link to this informative posting of yours in our resupply links folder, if you don't mind.  Let me know offline, if you would prefer to have a edited version of it instead.  Look for the link in the next 36 hours.  I am on the road now.

        Roleigh

        Sent from my iPad

        On Mar 25, 2013, at 12:17 AM, Danica Berner <bernerspack@...> wrote:

         

        Chris,
        We have never had any barrel, buried or otherwise in the Wilderness or at the pack station in Onion Valley, so not clear on how Paul can say this.   Caches are illegal.  We  are required to meet our hikers within a 24 hour window as anything after 24 hours is considered a cache, as you probably already know.  We already offer the resupply hike in services at the station for $75-$80 for most and some are $125.00.  We are licensed by both the Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Parks, and the Inyo National Forest.  I think for the same price as Paul, we also offer a hot shower.  There is no other entity commercially licensed to do business at the Onion Valley trailhead area with resupplying JMT hikers that I know of.  The bear- boxes that were left at our driveway in 2012 by someone I don't believe are currently there now.   The bear-boxes over near the trailhead and campground area are for the folks who use the campground or stay overnight in their vehicles at the trailhead; they are not for storage of  resupply deliveries  to JMT hikers to my knowledge. Maybe the JMT hikers are not aware that we provide hike in services that are very economical.  We charge a flat fee, not for each parcel or bucket.  We also hold the resupplies for as long as one needs.  We even ship them back to folks that can't retrieve them, if they wish us to do so.   We also pack resupplies into the HighCountry with shared loads which saves folks money and a hike in and out.  We do regularly pack in Resupplies by reservation and are allocated a specific amount of usage by the Inyo NF.  Resupplies then are one type of pack trip, since we are a complete outfitter-guide.  We try and help the best we can.  Anyone can call us with a date in mind and ask if we can provide a discounted amount.  There are a few options available with secure delivery and storage, and hospitality efforts such as showers and meals.  Hope this is of help to you and others.  Our toll-free number is 800-962-0775 if you would like to discuss your concerns with me directly. We also pack out all the debris for the Ranger that he collects at no charge to the Park Service, haul it to the dump in Independence and pay that fee there ourselves.
        We also hike ourselves and sometimes walk with the pack animals due to the steep terrain and long days.  Brian Berner was a hiker on the JMT back in 1975, came out at Onion Valley, liked it so well, asked for a job at the cafe/store and was hired. The owner also owned the pack station there. In 1993, he bought the pack station.
         
        Danica Berner

        --
        .

      • Chris
        Danica: Yes, thanks so much for clarifying this for us. Sorry if I painted your business in a bad light, I was just seeking clarification on that rumor. Not
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 25, 2013
          Danica:

          Yes, thanks so much for clarifying this for us. Sorry if I painted your business in a bad light, I was just seeking clarification on that rumor. Not sure where that idea started, but I'll try to pass your info back to the source.

          So, for $75-$80 I can pick up a resupply box and get a hot shower? Sounds like a deal! I'll look into fitting that in my schedule.

          Thanks again,

          Chris.



          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <marti124@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks for posting this, Danica. For myself, I have been very pleased with her packer services, having used them for four to five years now.
          >
          > Danica, we'll make a link to this informative posting of yours in our resupply links folder, if you don't mind. Let me know offline, if you would prefer to have a edited version of it instead. Look for the link in the next 36 hours. I am on the road now.
          >
          > Roleigh
          >
          > Sent from my iPad
          >
          > On Mar 25, 2013, at 12:17 AM, Danica Berner <bernerspack@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Chris,
          > > We have never had any barrel, buried or otherwise in the Wilderness or at the pack station in Onion Valley, so not clear on how Paul can say this. Caches are illegal. We are required to meet our hikers within a 24 hour window as anything after 24 hours is considered a cache, as you probably already know. We already offer the resupply hike in services at the station for $75-$80 for most and some are $125.00. We are licensed by both the Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Parks, and the Inyo National Forest. I think for the same price as Paul, we also offer a hot shower. There is no other entity commercially licensed to do business at the Onion Valley trailhead area with resupplying JMT hikers that I know of. The bear- boxes that were left at our driveway in 2012 by someone I don't believe are currently there now. The bear-boxes over near the trailhead and campground area are for the folks who use the campground or stay overnight in their vehicles at the trailhead; they are not for storage of resupply deliveries to JMT hikers to my knowledge. Maybe the JMT hikers are not aware that we provide hike in services that are very economical. We charge a flat fee, not for each parcel or bucket. We also hold the resupplies for as long as one needs. We even ship them back to folks that can't retrieve them, if they wish us to do so. We also pack resupplies into the HighCountry with shared loads which saves folks money and a hike in and out. We do regularly pack in Resupplies by reservation and are allocated a specific amount of usage by the Inyo NF. Resupplies then are one type of pack trip, since we are a complete outfitter-guide. We try and help the best we can. Anyone can call us with a date in mind and ask if we can provide a discounted amount. There are a few options available with secure delivery and storage, and hospitality efforts such as showers and meals. Hope this is of help to you and others. Our toll-free number is 800-962-0775 if you would like to discuss your concerns with me directly. We also pack out all the debris for the Ranger that he collects at no charge to the Park Service, haul it to the dump in Independence and pay that fee there ourselves.
          > > We also hike ourselves and sometimes walk with the pack animals due to the steep terrain and long days. Brian Berner was a hiker on the JMT back in 1975, came out at Onion Valley, liked it so well, asked for a job at the cafe/store and was hired. The owner also owned the pack station there. In 1993, he bought the pack station.
          > >
          > > Danica Berner
          > >
          > > --,
          > > .
          > >
          > >
          >
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