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Re: [John Muir Trail] Weekend permitting

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  • Ray Rippel
    Good day, Here s how I think it is supposed to happen, although I am not sure it always does. 1. Ranger X comes in Monday morning and collects all requests
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 16 1:24 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      Good day,

      Here's how I think it is supposed to happen, although I am not sure it always does.

      1. Ranger X comes in Monday morning and collects all requests that arrived since 5 p.m. on Friday. 

      2. They are separated into piles--one date for every pile.

      3. If any of those piles (or single requests) are for a date greater than 168 days in the future FROM THAT MONDAY--into the round file. You didn't follow the directions.

      4. In most cases, that leaves four piles: one for 168 days from Saturday, one for 168 days from Sunday, one for 168 days from Monday, and a pile for the one or two guys who are requesting something in, let's say, 90 days.

      5. The lottery takes place for each pile. Some win; some lose. The guys who thought they could request three months in advance get a lesson in the popularity of Wilderness Permits.

      6. As long as your request did not arrive before Friday at 5 p.m., local time, and as long as it doesn't request a date greater than 168 days in the future, you get to play the game.

      If your request came in on Saturday, for a date 169 days in the future, it is still considered, since no request could have been CONSIDERED until Monday morning. You may have submitted a day early, but that is irrelevant because it could not have been reviewed a day early.

      That's my interpretation of what I have read and what I have been told at the Wilderness Center. I may be wrong, or, even if I'm right, Ranger X may decide to do it some other way.

      Wish I could be more definite, but this is the government we're talking about (which, by the way, I work for).

      Good hiking, Ray




      On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 10:10 AM, charliepolecat <kennethjessett@...> wrote:
       


      That misses the point. But maybe no one knows what goes on. I'll have to wait to see the results of my faxes.

      The question was: If every day generates a new list for the day that occurs exactly 24 weeks hence and the day the fax is sent is a Saturday or Sunday, does each day generate a new lottery, in essence, one presumes the permit office hold three lotteries on Monday for the three days of faxes.

      As I said, I'll wait and see.



      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
      >
      > Depends, you're able to file for a reservation exactly 24 weeks ahead of
      > time. Your Saturday fax could be for a Tuesday (for example) start and
      > your Sunday fax could be for a Wednesday (same example) start, that occurs
      > 24 weeks to the day later.
      >
      > Also, there is this on their web page: "Only apply once for each request:
      > If you apply twice for the same request, you will be charged a
      > non-refundable, non-transferable processing fee for both reservations."
      >
      > This indicates that you can have a 2nd application asking for preferences
      > 4,5,6 for the same start day, you'd be charged for each request but you
      > might get your 2nd application okayed while your first one is rejected.
      >
      > -------------------------------------------------
      > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
      > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
      > _
      >
      >
      >
      > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 2:59 PM, charliepolecat <
      > kennethjessett@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > >

      > > But, does this mean that all faxes received over the weekend and up to
      > > 7:30 Monday morning go into one pot, so there is no point in faxing
      > > Saturday and Sunday?
      > >
      > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/permitstations.htm
      > > >
      > > > *Please visit the Wilderness
      > > > Conditions<http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm>
      > > > page for current hours of operations for wilderness centers.*
      > > >
      > > > *Yosemite Valley* *Wilderness Center*
      > > >
      > > > *Open:* May to October. November to April, permits are available at the
      > >
      > > > Valley Visitor Center (open 9 am to 5 pm).
      > > >
      > > > *Hours (subject to change):* 8 am to 5 pm (7:30 am to 5 pm in July and
      > > > August)
      > > >
      > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm
      > > >
      > > > *Yosemite Valley Wilderness Center*
      > >
      > > >
      > > > Closed for the season. Wilderness permits are issued in the Yosemite
      > > Valley
      > > > Visitor Center daily from 9am to 5pm.
      > > >
      > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wpres.htm
      > > >
      > > > Faxes and letters will be processed before phone calls. To be considered
      > > > for this priority, faxes can be received anytime between 5 pm and 7:30 am
      > > > PT. Faxes and letters received by 7:30 am will then be processed
      > > randomly.
      > > > Faxes recieved during business hours will be processed on first-come,
      > > > first-served basis along with phone calls.
      > > >
      > > > *Phone:* Please have your trip planned and the above information ready
      > >
      > > > before calling 209/372-0740. The phone is staffed Monday through Friday,
      > > > 8:30 am to 4:30 pm.
      > > >
      > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > The above seems to confirm what I said below. When you're filing for your
      > > > reservation, you're working with the Yosemite Valley Visitor Center's
      > > > Permit Processing center whose processing hours seem to be either M-F,
      > > > 8:30-4:30 for phone, M-F 7:30-4:30 for faxes, Daily (7 days a week),
      > > 7:30-5
      > > > in July and August for in person.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -------------------------------------------------
      > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
      > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
      > > > _
      > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > Taking Permit Applications is closed on the weekend, but being able to
      > > > > pick up permits I believe is open 7 days a week. Can others confirm
      > > this?
      > > > > -------------------------------------------------
      > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)<
      > > https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
      > >
      > > > > _
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:36 PM, charliepolecat <
      > > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >> **
      > >
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >> I'm sure at some time I read that the permit office is closed over the
      > > > >> weekend, but I have scoured the application info and can no longer
      > > find it
      > > > >> - maybe I need the reading glasses everyone keeps talking about. ;-)
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Anyway, if it is closed Saturday and Sunday, I presume that means that
      > > > >> permit applications sent by 7;30 (PST)Saturday morning will not be
      > > read
      > > > >> until Monday, and the same for applications sent on Sunday. Anyone
      > > have any
      > > > >> official information on this?
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Thanks.
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >


    • tamirph
      This is right off the NPS Wlderness Permit page: http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermitdates.htm You may fax your request beginning at 5 pm Pacific
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 16 2:30 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        This is right off the NPS Wlderness Permit page:
        http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermitdates.htm

        'You may fax your request beginning at 5 pm Pacific time a day prior to the date listed below (you can change the clock to the right to Pacific time to see what time it is here). If you fax your request by 7:30 am on the day below, your request will be included in the daily lottery. (For weekend reservation dates, you can fax beginning 5 pm on Friday.)'

        So I faxed 2 requests at 7pm on Friday 3/15 for Saturday Aug 31 and Sunday Sept 1. Hope I get lucky :)

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Ray Rippel <ray.rippel@...> wrote:
        >
        > Good day,
        >
        > Here's how I think it is supposed to happen, although I am not sure it
        > always does.
        >
        > 1. Ranger X comes in Monday morning and collects all requests that arrived
        > since 5 p.m. on Friday.
        >
        > 2. They are separated into piles--one date for every pile.
        >
        > 3. If any of those piles (or single requests) are for a date greater than
        > 168 days in the future FROM THAT MONDAY--into the round file. You didn't
        > follow the directions.
        >
        > 4. In most cases, that leaves four piles: one for 168 days from Saturday,
        > one for 168 days from Sunday, one for 168 days from Monday, and a pile for
        > the one or two guys who are requesting something in, let's say, 90 days.
        >
        > 5. The lottery takes place for each pile. Some win; some lose. The guys who
        > thought they could request three months in advance get a lesson in the
        > popularity of Wilderness Permits.
        >
        > 6. As long as your request did not arrive before Friday at 5 p.m., local
        > time, and as long as it doesn't request a date greater than 168 days in the
        > future, you get to play the game.
        >
        > If your request came in on Saturday, for a date 169 days in the future, it
        > is still considered, since no request could have been CONSIDERED until
        > Monday morning. You may have submitted a day early, but that is
        > irrelevant because it could not have been reviewed a day early.
        >
        > That's my interpretation of what I have read and what I have been told at
        > the Wilderness Center. I may be wrong, or, even if I'm right, Ranger X may
        > decide to do it some other way.
        >
        > Wish I could be more definite, but this is the government we're talking
        > about (which, by the way, I work for).
        >
        > Good hiking, Ray
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 10:10 AM, charliepolecat <
        > kennethjessett@...> wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > That misses the point. But maybe no one knows what goes on. I'll have to
        > > wait to see the results of my faxes.
        > >
        > > The question was: If every day generates a new list for the day that
        > > occurs exactly 24 weeks hence and the day the fax is sent is a Saturday or
        > > Sunday, does each day generate a new lottery, in essence, one presumes the
        > > permit office hold three lotteries on Monday for the three days of faxes.
        > >
        > > As I said, I'll wait and see.
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Depends, you're able to file for a reservation exactly 24 weeks ahead of
        > > > time. Your Saturday fax could be for a Tuesday (for example) start and
        > > > your Sunday fax could be for a Wednesday (same example) start, that
        > > occurs
        > > > 24 weeks to the day later.
        > > >
        > > > Also, there is this on their web page: "Only apply once for each request:
        > > > If you apply twice for the same request, you will be charged a
        > > > non-refundable, non-transferable processing fee for both reservations."
        > > >
        > > > This indicates that you can have a 2nd application asking for preferences
        > > > 4,5,6 for the same start day, you'd be charged for each request but you
        > > > might get your 2nd application okayed while your first one is rejected.
        > > >
        > > > -------------------------------------------------
        > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
        > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
        > > > _
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 2:59 PM, charliepolecat <
        > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > **
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > >
        > > > > But, does this mean that all faxes received over the weekend and up to
        > > > > 7:30 Monday morning go into one pot, so there is no point in faxing
        > > > > Saturday and Sunday?
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/permitstations.htm
        > > > > >
        > > > > > *Please visit the Wilderness
        > > > > > Conditions<http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm>
        > > > > > page for current hours of operations for wilderness centers.*
        > > > > >
        > > > > > *Yosemite Valley* *Wilderness Center*
        > > > > >
        > > > > > *Open:* May to October. November to April, permits are available at
        > > the
        > > > >
        > > > > > Valley Visitor Center (open 9 am to 5 pm).
        > > > > >
        > > > > > *Hours (subject to change):* 8 am to 5 pm (7:30 am to 5 pm in July
        > > and
        > > > > > August)
        > > > > >
        > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm
        > > > > >
        > > > > > *Yosemite Valley Wilderness Center*
        > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Closed for the season. Wilderness permits are issued in the Yosemite
        > > > > Valley
        > > > > > Visitor Center daily from 9am to 5pm.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wpres.htm
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Faxes and letters will be processed before phone calls. To be
        > > considered
        > > > > > for this priority, faxes can be received anytime between 5 pm and
        > > 7:30 am
        > > > > > PT. Faxes and letters received by 7:30 am will then be processed
        > > > > randomly.
        > > > > > Faxes recieved during business hours will be processed on first-come,
        > > > > > first-served basis along with phone calls.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > *Phone:* Please have your trip planned and the above information
        > > ready
        > > > >
        > > > > > before calling 209/372-0740. The phone is staffed Monday through
        > > Friday,
        > > > > > 8:30 am to 4:30 pm.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The above seems to confirm what I said below. When you're filing for
        > > your
        > > > > > reservation, you're working with the Yosemite Valley Visitor Center's
        > > > > > Permit Processing center whose processing hours seem to be either
        > > M-F,
        > > > > > 8:30-4:30 for phone, M-F 7:30-4:30 for faxes, Daily (7 days a week),
        > > > > 7:30-5
        > > > > > in July and August for in person.
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > -------------------------------------------------
        > > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
        > > > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
        > > > > > _
        > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > Taking Permit Applications is closed on the weekend, but being
        > > able to
        > > > > > > pick up permits I believe is open 7 days a week. Can others confirm
        > > > > this?
        > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------
        > > > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)<
        > > > > https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
        > > > >
        > > > > > > _
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:36 PM, charliepolecat <
        > > > > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >> **
        > > > >
        > > > > > >>
        > > > > > >>
        > > > > > >> I'm sure at some time I read that the permit office is closed
        > > over the
        > > > > > >> weekend, but I have scoured the application info and can no longer
        > > > > find it
        > > > > > >> - maybe I need the reading glasses everyone keeps talking about.
        > > ;-)
        > > > > > >>
        > > > > > >> Anyway, if it is closed Saturday and Sunday, I presume that means
        > > that
        > > > > > >> permit applications sent by 7;30 (PST)Saturday morning will not be
        > > > > read
        > > > > > >> until Monday, and the same for applications sent on Sunday. Anyone
        > > > > have any
        > > > > > >> official information on this?
        > > > > > >>
        > > > > > >> Thanks.
        > > > > > >>
        > > > > > >>
        > > > > > >>
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Gail
        The way I read it, there is only one list for each date requested no matter which weekend day the fax is sent. See the last sentence here: You may fax your
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 16 2:40 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          The way I read it, there is only one list for each date requested no matter which weekend day the fax is sent. See the last sentence here:

          "You may fax your request beginning
          at 5 pm Pacific time a day prior to the date
          listed below (you can change the clock
          to the right to Pacific time to see what time
          it is here). If you fax your request
          by 7:30 am on the day below, your
          request will be included in the daily
          lottery. (For weekend reservation
          dates, you can fax beginning 5 pm
          on Friday.)"

          http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermitdates.htm

          (This is from the top of the page on the Yosemite NP site that contains the chart of application dates.)

          To give an example, next weekend you could fax one application each anytime between 5:00 P.M. on Friday, March 22 and 7:30 a.m. on Monday, March 25 to be included in the lotteries for September 7, 8, or 9. It would not be to your advantage to submit more than one application for the SAME date, though.

          If you submitted separate applications for all three dates, you could conceivably wind up with three permits and be charged for all of them. But you would not be charged for applications that did NOT result in permits.

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "charliepolecat" <kennethjessett@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > That misses the point. But maybe no one knows what goes on. I'll have to wait to see the results of my faxes.
          >
          > The question was: If every day generates a new list for the day that occurs exactly 24 weeks hence and the day the fax is sent is a Saturday or Sunday, does each day generate a new lottery, in essence, one presumes the permit office hold three lotteries on Monday for the three days of faxes.
          >
          > As I said, I'll wait and see.
          >
          >
          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Depends, you're able to file for a reservation exactly 24 weeks ahead of
          > > time. Your Saturday fax could be for a Tuesday (for example) start and
          > > your Sunday fax could be for a Wednesday (same example) start, that occurs
          > > 24 weeks to the day later.
          > >
          > > Also, there is this on their web page: "Only apply once for each request:
          > > If you apply twice for the same request, you will be charged a
          > > non-refundable, non-transferable processing fee for both reservations."
          > >
          > > This indicates that you can have a 2nd application asking for preferences
          > > 4,5,6 for the same start day, you'd be charged for each request but you
          > > might get your 2nd application okayed while your first one is rejected.
          > >
          > > -------------------------------------------------
          > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
          > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
          > > _
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 2:59 PM, charliepolecat <
          > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
          > >
          > > > **
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > But, does this mean that all faxes received over the weekend and up to
          > > > 7:30 Monday morning go into one pot, so there is no point in faxing
          > > > Saturday and Sunday?
          > > >
          > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/permitstations.htm
          > > > >
          > > > > *Please visit the Wilderness
          > > > > Conditions<http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm>
          > > > > page for current hours of operations for wilderness centers.*
          > > > >
          > > > > *Yosemite Valley* *Wilderness Center*
          > > > >
          > > > > *Open:* May to October. November to April, permits are available at the
          > > >
          > > > > Valley Visitor Center (open 9 am to 5 pm).
          > > > >
          > > > > *Hours (subject to change):* 8 am to 5 pm (7:30 am to 5 pm in July and
          > > > > August)
          > > > >
          > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm
          > > > >
          > > > > *Yosemite Valley Wilderness Center*
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Closed for the season. Wilderness permits are issued in the Yosemite
          > > > Valley
          > > > > Visitor Center daily from 9am to 5pm.
          > > > >
          > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wpres.htm
          > > > >
          > > > > Faxes and letters will be processed before phone calls. To be considered
          > > > > for this priority, faxes can be received anytime between 5 pm and 7:30 am
          > > > > PT. Faxes and letters received by 7:30 am will then be processed
          > > > randomly.
          > > > > Faxes recieved during business hours will be processed on first-come,
          > > > > first-served basis along with phone calls.
          > > > >
          > > > > *Phone:* Please have your trip planned and the above information ready
          > > >
          > > > > before calling 209/372-0740. The phone is staffed Monday through Friday,
          > > > > 8:30 am to 4:30 pm.
          > > > >
          > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
          > > > >
          > > > > The above seems to confirm what I said below. When you're filing for your
          > > > > reservation, you're working with the Yosemite Valley Visitor Center's
          > > > > Permit Processing center whose processing hours seem to be either M-F,
          > > > > 8:30-4:30 for phone, M-F 7:30-4:30 for faxes, Daily (7 days a week),
          > > > 7:30-5
          > > > > in July and August for in person.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > -------------------------------------------------
          > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
          > > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
          > > > > _
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > > Taking Permit Applications is closed on the weekend, but being able to
          > > > > > pick up permits I believe is open 7 days a week. Can others confirm
          > > > this?
          > > > > > -------------------------------------------------
          > > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)<
          > > > https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
          > > >
          > > > > > _
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:36 PM, charliepolecat <
          > > > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > >> **
          > > >
          > > > > >>
          > > > > >>
          > > > > >> I'm sure at some time I read that the permit office is closed over the
          > > > > >> weekend, but I have scoured the application info and can no longer
          > > > find it
          > > > > >> - maybe I need the reading glasses everyone keeps talking about. ;-)
          > > > > >>
          > > > > >> Anyway, if it is closed Saturday and Sunday, I presume that means that
          > > > > >> permit applications sent by 7;30 (PST)Saturday morning will not be
          > > > read
          > > > > >> until Monday, and the same for applications sent on Sunday. Anyone
          > > > have any
          > > > > >> official information on this?
          > > > > >>
          > > > > >> Thanks.
          > > > > >>
          > > > > >>
          > > > > >>
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • charliepolecat
          I will call the office on Monday to see how all this works. Stay tooned.
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 16 3:22 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            I will call the office on Monday to see how all this works. Stay tooned.



            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <forgetwho@...> wrote:
            >
            > The way I read it, there is only one list for each date requested no matter which weekend day the fax is sent. See the last sentence here:
            >
            > "You may fax your request beginning
            > at 5 pm Pacific time a day prior to the date
            > listed below (you can change the clock
            > to the right to Pacific time to see what time
            > it is here). If you fax your request
            > by 7:30 am on the day below, your
            > request will be included in the daily
            > lottery. (For weekend reservation
            > dates, you can fax beginning 5 pm
            > on Friday.)"
            >
            > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermitdates.htm
            >
            > (This is from the top of the page on the Yosemite NP site that contains the chart of application dates.)
            >
            > To give an example, next weekend you could fax one application each anytime between 5:00 P.M. on Friday, March 22 and 7:30 a.m. on Monday, March 25 to be included in the lotteries for September 7, 8, or 9. It would not be to your advantage to submit more than one application for the SAME date, though.
            >
            > If you submitted separate applications for all three dates, you could conceivably wind up with three permits and be charged for all of them. But you would not be charged for applications that did NOT result in permits.
            >
            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "charliepolecat" <kennethjessett@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > That misses the point. But maybe no one knows what goes on. I'll have to wait to see the results of my faxes.
            > >
            > > The question was: If every day generates a new list for the day that occurs exactly 24 weeks hence and the day the fax is sent is a Saturday or Sunday, does each day generate a new lottery, in essence, one presumes the permit office hold three lotteries on Monday for the three days of faxes.
            > >
            > > As I said, I'll wait and see.
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Depends, you're able to file for a reservation exactly 24 weeks ahead of
            > > > time. Your Saturday fax could be for a Tuesday (for example) start and
            > > > your Sunday fax could be for a Wednesday (same example) start, that occurs
            > > > 24 weeks to the day later.
            > > >
            > > > Also, there is this on their web page: "Only apply once for each request:
            > > > If you apply twice for the same request, you will be charged a
            > > > non-refundable, non-transferable processing fee for both reservations."
            > > >
            > > > This indicates that you can have a 2nd application asking for preferences
            > > > 4,5,6 for the same start day, you'd be charged for each request but you
            > > > might get your 2nd application okayed while your first one is rejected.
            > > >
            > > > -------------------------------------------------
            > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
            > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
            > > > _
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 2:59 PM, charliepolecat <
            > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > **
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > But, does this mean that all faxes received over the weekend and up to
            > > > > 7:30 Monday morning go into one pot, so there is no point in faxing
            > > > > Saturday and Sunday?
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/permitstations.htm
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Please visit the Wilderness
            > > > > > Conditions<http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm>
            > > > > > page for current hours of operations for wilderness centers.*
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Yosemite Valley* *Wilderness Center*
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Open:* May to October. November to April, permits are available at the
            > > > >
            > > > > > Valley Visitor Center (open 9 am to 5 pm).
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Hours (subject to change):* 8 am to 5 pm (7:30 am to 5 pm in July and
            > > > > > August)
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Yosemite Valley Wilderness Center*
            > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Closed for the season. Wilderness permits are issued in the Yosemite
            > > > > Valley
            > > > > > Visitor Center daily from 9am to 5pm.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wpres.htm
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Faxes and letters will be processed before phone calls. To be considered
            > > > > > for this priority, faxes can be received anytime between 5 pm and 7:30 am
            > > > > > PT. Faxes and letters received by 7:30 am will then be processed
            > > > > randomly.
            > > > > > Faxes recieved during business hours will be processed on first-come,
            > > > > > first-served basis along with phone calls.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > *Phone:* Please have your trip planned and the above information ready
            > > > >
            > > > > > before calling 209/372-0740. The phone is staffed Monday through Friday,
            > > > > > 8:30 am to 4:30 pm.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The above seems to confirm what I said below. When you're filing for your
            > > > > > reservation, you're working with the Yosemite Valley Visitor Center's
            > > > > > Permit Processing center whose processing hours seem to be either M-F,
            > > > > > 8:30-4:30 for phone, M-F 7:30-4:30 for faxes, Daily (7 days a week),
            > > > > 7:30-5
            > > > > > in July and August for in person.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > -------------------------------------------------
            > > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
            > > > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
            > > > > > _
            > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > Taking Permit Applications is closed on the weekend, but being able to
            > > > > > > pick up permits I believe is open 7 days a week. Can others confirm
            > > > > this?
            > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------
            > > > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)<
            > > > > https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
            > > > >
            > > > > > > _
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:36 PM, charliepolecat <
            > > > > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >> **
            > > > >
            > > > > > >>
            > > > > > >>
            > > > > > >> I'm sure at some time I read that the permit office is closed over the
            > > > > > >> weekend, but I have scoured the application info and can no longer
            > > > > find it
            > > > > > >> - maybe I need the reading glasses everyone keeps talking about. ;-)
            > > > > > >>
            > > > > > >> Anyway, if it is closed Saturday and Sunday, I presume that means that
            > > > > > >> permit applications sent by 7;30 (PST)Saturday morning will not be
            > > > > read
            > > > > > >> until Monday, and the same for applications sent on Sunday. Anyone
            > > > > have any
            > > > > > >> official information on this?
            > > > > > >>
            > > > > > >> Thanks.
            > > > > > >>
            > > > > > >>
            > > > > > >>
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Frank Dumville
            I did the same for the week prior. Faxed 2 requests Friday just after 5 PM. One for Saturday, my preferred day and another for Sunday. I added a note to the
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 16 4:16 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              I did the same for the week prior. Faxed 2 requests Friday just after 5 PM. One for Saturday, my preferred day and another for Sunday. I added a note to the application indicating the second permit request was only if I didn't get a permit for Saturday. I ended up with the first trailhead of my second permit application.
              I didn't receive any feedback indicating my first day's request was rejected. Do people get a response if they don't get a permit.
               
              Snap 

              From: tamirph <tamirph@...>
              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 2:30 PM
              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Weekend permitting
               


              This is right off the NPS Wlderness Permit page:
              http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermitdates.htm

              'You may fax your request beginning at 5 pm Pacific time a day prior to the date listed below (you can change the clock to the right to Pacific time to see what time it is here). If you fax your request by 7:30 am on the day below, your request will be included in the daily lottery. (For weekend reservation dates, you can fax beginning 5 pm on Friday.)'

              So I faxed 2 requests at 7pm on Friday 3/15 for Saturday Aug 31 and Sunday Sept 1. Hope I get lucky :)

              --- In mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com, Ray Rippel <ray.rippel@...> wrote:
              >
              > Good day,
              >
              > Here's how I think it is supposed to happen, although I am not sure it
              > always does.
              >
              > 1. Ranger X comes in Monday morning and collects all requests that arrived
              > since 5 p.m. on Friday.
              >
              > 2. They are separated into piles--one date for every pile.
              >
              > 3. If any of those piles (or single requests) are for a date greater than
              > 168 days in the future FROM THAT MONDAY--into the round file. You didn't
              > follow the directions.
              >
              > 4. In most cases, that leaves four piles: one for 168 days from Saturday,
              > one for 168 days from Sunday, one for 168 days from Monday, and a pile for
              > the one or two guys who are requesting something in, let's say, 90 days.
              >
              > 5. The lottery takes place for each pile. Some win; some lose. The guys who
              > thought they could request three months in advance get a lesson in the
              > popularity of Wilderness Permits.
              >
              > 6. As long as your request did not arrive before Friday at 5 p.m., local
              > time, and as long as it doesn't request a date greater than 168 days in the
              > future, you get to play the game.
              >
              > If your request came in on Saturday, for a date 169 days in the future, it
              > is still considered, since no request could have been CONSIDERED until
              > Monday morning. You may have submitted a day early, but that is
              > irrelevant because it could not have been reviewed a day early.
              >
              > That's my interpretation of what I have read and what I have been told at
              > the Wilderness Center. I may be wrong, or, even if I'm right, Ranger X may
              > decide to do it some other way.
              >
              > Wish I could be more definite, but this is the government we're talking
              > about (which, by the way, I work for).
              >
              > Good hiking, Ray
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 10:10 AM, charliepolecat <
              > kennethjessett@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > That misses the point. But maybe no one knows what goes on. I'll have to
              > > wait to see the results of my faxes.
              > >
              > > The question was: If every day generates a new list for the day that
              > > occurs exactly 24 weeks hence and the day the fax is sent is a Saturday or
              > > Sunday, does each day generate a new lottery, in essence, one presumes the
              > > permit office hold three lotteries on Monday for the three days of faxes.
              > >
              > > As I said, I'll wait and see.
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Depends, you're able to file for a reservation exactly 24 weeks ahead of
              > > > time. Your Saturday fax could be for a Tuesday (for example) start and
              > > > your Sunday fax could be for a Wednesday (same example) start, that
              > > occurs
              > > > 24 weeks to the day later.
              > > >
              > > > Also, there is this on their web page: "Only apply once for each request:
              > > > If you apply twice for the same request, you will be charged a
              > > > non-refundable, non-transferable processing fee for both reservations."
              > > >
              > > > This indicates that you can have a 2nd application asking for preferences
              > > > 4,5,6 for the same start day, you'd be charged for each request but you
              > > > might get your 2nd application okayed while your first one is rejected.
              > > >
              > > > -------------------------------------------------
              > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
              > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
              > > > _
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 2:59 PM, charliepolecat <
              > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > **
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > >
              > > > > But, does this mean that all faxes received over the weekend and up to
              > > > > 7:30 Monday morning go into one pot, so there is no point in faxing
              > > > > Saturday and Sunday?
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In mailto:johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/permitstations.htm
              > > > > >
              > > > > > *Please visit the Wilderness
              > > > > > Conditions<http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm>
              > > > > > page for current hours of operations for wilderness centers.*
              > > > > >
              > > > > > *Yosemite Valley* *Wilderness Center*
              > > > > >
              > > > > > *Open:* May to October. November to April, permits are available at
              > > the
              > > > >
              > > > > > Valley Visitor Center (open 9 am to 5 pm).
              > > > > >
              > > > > > *Hours (subject to change):* 8 am to 5 pm (7:30 am to 5 pm in July
              > > and
              > > > > > August)
              > > > > >
              > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm
              > > > > >
              > > > > > *Yosemite Valley Wilderness Center*
              > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Closed for the season. Wilderness permits are issued in the Yosemite
              > > > > Valley
              > > > > > Visitor Center daily from 9am to 5pm.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wpres.htm
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Faxes and letters will be processed before phone calls. To be
              > > considered
              > > > > > for this priority, faxes can be received anytime between 5 pm and
              > > 7:30 am
              > > > > > PT. Faxes and letters received by 7:30 am will then be processed
              > > > > randomly.
              > > > > > Faxes recieved during business hours will be processed on first-come,
              > > > > > first-served basis along with phone calls.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > *Phone:* Please have your trip planned and the above information
              > > ready
              > > > >
              > > > > > before calling 209/372-0740. The phone is staffed Monday through
              > > Friday,
              > > > > > 8:30 am to 4:30 pm.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
              > > > > >
              > > > > > The above seems to confirm what I said below. When you're filing for
              > > your
              > > > > > reservation, you're working with the Yosemite Valley Visitor Center's
              > > > > > Permit Processing center whose processing hours seem to be either
              > > M-F,
              > > > > > 8:30-4:30 for phone, M-F 7:30-4:30 for faxes, Daily (7 days a week),
              > > > > 7:30-5
              > > > > > in July and August for in person.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > -------------------------------------------------
              > > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
              > > > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
              > > > > > _
              > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > > Taking Permit Applications is closed on the weekend, but being
              > > able to
              > > > > > > pick up permits I believe is open 7 days a week. Can others confirm
              > > > > this?
              > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------
              > > > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)<
              > > > > https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
              > > > >
              > > > > > > _
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:36 PM, charliepolecat <
              > > > > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >> **
              > > > >
              > > > > > >>
              > > > > > >>
              > > > > > >> I'm sure at some time I read that the permit office is closed
              > > over the
              > > > > > >> weekend, but I have scoured the application info and can no longer
              > > > > find it
              > > > > > >> - maybe I need the reading glasses everyone keeps talking about.
              > > ;-)
              > > > > > >>
              > > > > > >> Anyway, if it is closed Saturday and Sunday, I presume that means
              > > that
              > > > > > >> permit applications sent by 7;30 (PST)Saturday morning will not be
              > > > > read
              > > > > > >> until Monday, and the same for applications sent on Sunday. Anyone
              > > > > have any
              > > > > > >> official information on this?
              > > > > > >>
              > > > > > >> Thanks.
              > > > > > >>
              > > > > > >>
              > > > > > >>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >

            • Chris
              ...does each day generate a new lottery, in essence, one presumes the permit office hold three lotteries on Monday for the three days of faxes. As I
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 17 4:11 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                "...does each day generate a new lottery, in essence, one presumes the permit office hold three lotteries on Monday for the three days of faxes."

                As I understand it, you are correct. At 7:30AM Monday morning, the staff pulls the stack of faxes off the machine, separates them by the 3 wilderness entry dates for 3 separate lotteries.

                Don't ask me how I know this... I think I read it or inferred it from a website or email somewhere.

                Chris.

                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                >
                > Good question, why don't you call Monday and find out? Let us know!
                > -------------------------------------------------
                > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                > _
                >
                >
                >
                > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 4:10 PM, charliepolecat <
                > kennethjessett@...> wrote:
                >
                > > **
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > That misses the point. But maybe no one knows what goes on. I'll have to
                > > wait to see the results of my faxes.
                > >
                > > The question was: If every day generates a new list for the day that
                > > occurs exactly 24 weeks hence and the day the fax is sent is a Saturday or
                > > Sunday, does each day generate a new lottery, in essence, one presumes the
                > > permit office hold three lotteries on Monday for the three days of faxes.
                > >
                > > As I said, I'll wait and see.
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Depends, you're able to file for a reservation exactly 24 weeks ahead of
                > > > time. Your Saturday fax could be for a Tuesday (for example) start and
                > > > your Sunday fax could be for a Wednesday (same example) start, that
                > > occurs
                > > > 24 weeks to the day later.
                > > >
                > > > Also, there is this on their web page: "Only apply once for each request:
                > > > If you apply twice for the same request, you will be charged a
                > > > non-refundable, non-transferable processing fee for both reservations."
                > > >
                > > > This indicates that you can have a 2nd application asking for preferences
                > > > 4,5,6 for the same start day, you'd be charged for each request but you
                > > > might get your 2nd application okayed while your first one is rejected.
                > > >
                > > > -------------------------------------------------
                > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                > > > _
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 2:59 PM, charliepolecat <
                > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > **
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > > > > But, does this mean that all faxes received over the weekend and up to
                > > > > 7:30 Monday morning go into one pot, so there is no point in faxing
                > > > > Saturday and Sunday?
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/permitstations.htm
                > > > > >
                > > > > > *Please visit the Wilderness
                > > > > > Conditions<http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm>
                > > > > > page for current hours of operations for wilderness centers.*
                > > > > >
                > > > > > *Yosemite Valley* *Wilderness Center*
                > > > > >
                > > > > > *Open:* May to October. November to April, permits are available at
                > > the
                > > > >
                > > > > > Valley Visitor Center (open 9 am to 5 pm).
                > > > > >
                > > > > > *Hours (subject to change):* 8 am to 5 pm (7:30 am to 5 pm in July
                > > and
                > > > > > August)
                > > > > >
                > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm
                > > > > >
                > > > > > *Yosemite Valley Wilderness Center*
                > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Closed for the season. Wilderness permits are issued in the Yosemite
                > > > > Valley
                > > > > > Visitor Center daily from 9am to 5pm.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wpres.htm
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Faxes and letters will be processed before phone calls. To be
                > > considered
                > > > > > for this priority, faxes can be received anytime between 5 pm and
                > > 7:30 am
                > > > > > PT. Faxes and letters received by 7:30 am will then be processed
                > > > > randomly.
                > > > > > Faxes recieved during business hours will be processed on first-come,
                > > > > > first-served basis along with phone calls.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > *Phone:* Please have your trip planned and the above information
                > > ready
                > > > >
                > > > > > before calling 209/372-0740. The phone is staffed Monday through
                > > Friday,
                > > > > > 8:30 am to 4:30 pm.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                > > > > >
                > > > > > The above seems to confirm what I said below. When you're filing for
                > > your
                > > > > > reservation, you're working with the Yosemite Valley Visitor Center's
                > > > > > Permit Processing center whose processing hours seem to be either
                > > M-F,
                > > > > > 8:30-4:30 for phone, M-F 7:30-4:30 for faxes, Daily (7 days a week),
                > > > > 7:30-5
                > > > > > in July and August for in person.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > -------------------------------------------------
                > > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                > > > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                > > > > > _
                > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > > Taking Permit Applications is closed on the weekend, but being
                > > able to
                > > > > > > pick up permits I believe is open 7 days a week. Can others confirm
                > > > > this?
                > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------
                > > > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)<
                > > > > https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                > > > >
                > > > > > > _
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:36 PM, charliepolecat <
                > > > > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >> **
                > > > >
                > > > > > >>
                > > > > > >>
                > > > > > >> I'm sure at some time I read that the permit office is closed
                > > over the
                > > > > > >> weekend, but I have scoured the application info and can no longer
                > > > > find it
                > > > > > >> - maybe I need the reading glasses everyone keeps talking about.
                > > ;-)
                > > > > > >>
                > > > > > >> Anyway, if it is closed Saturday and Sunday, I presume that means
                > > that
                > > > > > >> permit applications sent by 7;30 (PST)Saturday morning will not be
                > > > > read
                > > > > > >> until Monday, and the same for applications sent on Sunday. Anyone
                > > > > have any
                > > > > > >> official information on this?
                > > > > > >>
                > > > > > >> Thanks.
                > > > > > >>
                > > > > > >>
                > > > > > >>
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • charliepolecat
                Thanks Chris, that makes sense. Anyway, I ll find out today.
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 18 5:52 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks Chris, that makes sense. Anyway, I'll find out today.



                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cehauser1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > "...does each day generate a new lottery, in essence, one presumes the permit office hold three lotteries on Monday for the three days of faxes."
                  >
                  > As I understand it, you are correct. At 7:30AM Monday morning, the staff pulls the stack of faxes off the machine, separates them by the 3 wilderness entry dates for 3 separate lotteries.
                  >
                  > Don't ask me how I know this... I think I read it or inferred it from a website or email somewhere.
                  >
                  > Chris.
                  >
                  > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Good question, why don't you call Monday and find out? Let us know!
                  > > -------------------------------------------------
                  > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                  > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                  > > _
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 4:10 PM, charliepolecat <
                  > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > **
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > That misses the point. But maybe no one knows what goes on. I'll have to
                  > > > wait to see the results of my faxes.
                  > > >
                  > > > The question was: If every day generates a new list for the day that
                  > > > occurs exactly 24 weeks hence and the day the fax is sent is a Saturday or
                  > > > Sunday, does each day generate a new lottery, in essence, one presumes the
                  > > > permit office hold three lotteries on Monday for the three days of faxes.
                  > > >
                  > > > As I said, I'll wait and see.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Depends, you're able to file for a reservation exactly 24 weeks ahead of
                  > > > > time. Your Saturday fax could be for a Tuesday (for example) start and
                  > > > > your Sunday fax could be for a Wednesday (same example) start, that
                  > > > occurs
                  > > > > 24 weeks to the day later.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Also, there is this on their web page: "Only apply once for each request:
                  > > > > If you apply twice for the same request, you will be charged a
                  > > > > non-refundable, non-transferable processing fee for both reservations."
                  > > > >
                  > > > > This indicates that you can have a 2nd application asking for preferences
                  > > > > 4,5,6 for the same start day, you'd be charged for each request but you
                  > > > > might get your 2nd application okayed while your first one is rejected.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > -------------------------------------------------
                  > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                  > > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                  > > > > _
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 2:59 PM, charliepolecat <
                  > > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > **
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > > > But, does this mean that all faxes received over the weekend and up to
                  > > > > > 7:30 Monday morning go into one pot, so there is no point in faxing
                  > > > > > Saturday and Sunday?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/permitstations.htm
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > *Please visit the Wilderness
                  > > > > > > Conditions<http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm>
                  > > > > > > page for current hours of operations for wilderness centers.*
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > *Yosemite Valley* *Wilderness Center*
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > *Open:* May to October. November to April, permits are available at
                  > > > the
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Valley Visitor Center (open 9 am to 5 pm).
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > *Hours (subject to change):* 8 am to 5 pm (7:30 am to 5 pm in July
                  > > > and
                  > > > > > > August)
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildcond.htm
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > *Yosemite Valley Wilderness Center*
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Closed for the season. Wilderness permits are issued in the Yosemite
                  > > > > > Valley
                  > > > > > > Visitor Center daily from 9am to 5pm.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wpres.htm
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Faxes and letters will be processed before phone calls. To be
                  > > > considered
                  > > > > > > for this priority, faxes can be received anytime between 5 pm and
                  > > > 7:30 am
                  > > > > > > PT. Faxes and letters received by 7:30 am will then be processed
                  > > > > > randomly.
                  > > > > > > Faxes recieved during business hours will be processed on first-come,
                  > > > > > > first-served basis along with phone calls.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > *Phone:* Please have your trip planned and the above information
                  > > > ready
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > > before calling 209/372-0740. The phone is staffed Monday through
                  > > > Friday,
                  > > > > > > 8:30 am to 4:30 pm.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > The above seems to confirm what I said below. When you're filing for
                  > > > your
                  > > > > > > reservation, you're working with the Yosemite Valley Visitor Center's
                  > > > > > > Permit Processing center whose processing hours seem to be either
                  > > > M-F,
                  > > > > > > 8:30-4:30 for phone, M-F 7:30-4:30 for faxes, Daily (7 days a week),
                  > > > > > 7:30-5
                  > > > > > > in July and August for in person.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------
                  > > > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                  > > > > > > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                  > > > > > > _
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Taking Permit Applications is closed on the weekend, but being
                  > > > able to
                  > > > > > > > pick up permits I believe is open 7 days a week. Can others confirm
                  > > > > > this?
                  > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------
                  > > > > > > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)<
                  > > > > > https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > _
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:36 PM, charliepolecat <
                  > > > > > > > kennethjessett@> wrote:
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >> **
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >>
                  > > > > > > >>
                  > > > > > > >> I'm sure at some time I read that the permit office is closed
                  > > > over the
                  > > > > > > >> weekend, but I have scoured the application info and can no longer
                  > > > > > find it
                  > > > > > > >> - maybe I need the reading glasses everyone keeps talking about.
                  > > > ;-)
                  > > > > > > >>
                  > > > > > > >> Anyway, if it is closed Saturday and Sunday, I presume that means
                  > > > that
                  > > > > > > >> permit applications sent by 7;30 (PST)Saturday morning will not be
                  > > > > > read
                  > > > > > > >> until Monday, and the same for applications sent on Sunday. Anyone
                  > > > > > have any
                  > > > > > > >> official information on this?
                  > > > > > > >>
                  > > > > > > >> Thanks.
                  > > > > > > >>
                  > > > > > > >>
                  > > > > > > >>
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
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