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Illilouette Falls Option + half dome day permit questions

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  • dsgdsguk
    Hello, As an overseas visitor I m finding the permit system very confusing and this forum the only bit of sanity in the whole process. Thank you everyone who
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 2 4:48 AM
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      Hello,

      As an overseas visitor I'm finding the permit system very confusing and this forum the only bit of sanity in the whole process. Thank you everyone who posts here for your help and advice.

      For me walking the JMT is a once in a lifetime opportunity, with a 6000+ mile trip to get to Yosemite. Knowing I had a permit before flying was essential and having failed 15+ times to get a Happy Isles->Sunrise... permit I used the advice here and applied for a Happy Isles->Illilouette Falls permit and was successfully, although this failed to include a Half Dome.

      Whilst my application stated I would be spending my first night at Illilouette this is not mentioned on the permit which basically says :-

      Entry Date: xxx
      Entry Trailhead: Happy Isles->Illilouette
      Exit Date: xxx
      Exit Trailhead: Whitney Portal
      Number in Party: 1
      Number hiking Half Dome: 0
      Number of Stock: 0
      You may not camp at Little Yosemite Valley your first night with this permit.

      So I'm now wondering if applying for a half dome day permit is an option, what dates I can include and what would happen using two permits.

      If I include the start date of my Illilouette permit as one of my lottery options and this is the date I'm lucky enough to get a half dome day permit will I have problems collecting both from the permit office?

      Can I legitimately ignore what I put on my wilderness permit application and walk down LYV with all my backpacking gear on a half dome day permit? I'm not sure when and how permits are checked.

      Having done half dome is there a campsite outside of LYV that it is practical to reach in one day?

      Would there be any issues camping here on a wilderness permit that stated Illilouette as the first nights camp on the application?

      Thanks in advance for your replies.
    • wcgornto
      Call the permit office and ask if there is any availability of a half dome permit to be added to your wilderness permit. Of the total day s allotment, a
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 2 5:41 AM
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        Call the permit office and ask if there is any availability of a half dome permit to be added to your wilderness permit. Of the total day's allotment, a portion of the half dome permits are set aside for long distance hikers and not included in the general half dome lottery.

        I have a HI pass through permit for June 30. I did not request a half dome permit when I requested my wilderness permit back in mid January. I called the permit office three days ago and was able to add a half dome permit for the dame day.

        If this doesn't work for you (or even if it does), consider hiking Clouds Rest instead of or in addition to half dome. It has a higher altitude, smaller crowds and similar if not superior views, and requires no additional permit.


        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, dsgdsguk <no_reply@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        > As an overseas visitor I'm finding the permit system very confusing and this forum the only bit of sanity in the whole process. Thank you everyone who posts here for your help and advice.
        >
        > For me walking the JMT is a once in a lifetime opportunity, with a 6000+ mile trip to get to Yosemite. Knowing I had a permit before flying was essential and having failed 15+ times to get a Happy Isles->Sunrise... permit I used the advice here and applied for a Happy Isles->Illilouette Falls permit and was successfully, although this failed to include a Half Dome.
        >
        > Whilst my application stated I would be spending my first night at Illilouette this is not mentioned on the permit which basically says :-
        >
        > Entry Date: xxx
        > Entry Trailhead: Happy Isles->Illilouette
        > Exit Date: xxx
        > Exit Trailhead: Whitney Portal
        > Number in Party: 1
        > Number hiking Half Dome: 0
        > Number of Stock: 0
        > You may not camp at Little Yosemite Valley your first night with this permit.
        >
        > So I'm now wondering if applying for a half dome day permit is an option, what dates I can include and what would happen using two permits.
        >
        > If I include the start date of my Illilouette permit as one of my lottery options and this is the date I'm lucky enough to get a half dome day permit will I have problems collecting both from the permit office?
        >
        > Can I legitimately ignore what I put on my wilderness permit application and walk down LYV with all my backpacking gear on a half dome day permit? I'm not sure when and how permits are checked.
        >
        > Having done half dome is there a campsite outside of LYV that it is practical to reach in one day?
        >
        > Would there be any issues camping here on a wilderness permit that stated Illilouette as the first nights camp on the application?
        >
        > Thanks in advance for your replies.
        >
      • dsgdsguk
        Thanks for the advice on getting a permit. Does anyone have any thoughts on first camping outside of LYV after half dome or any of my other questions?
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 3 6:49 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks for the advice on getting a permit.

          Does anyone have any thoughts on first camping outside of LYV after half dome or any of my other questions?


          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "wcgornto" <wcgornto@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Call the permit office and ask if there is any availability of a half dome permit to be added to your wilderness permit. Of the total day's allotment, a portion of the half dome permits are set aside for long distance hikers and not included in the general half dome lottery.
          >
          > I have a HI pass through permit for June 30. I did not request a half dome permit when I requested my wilderness permit back in mid January. I called the permit office three days ago and was able to add a half dome permit for the dame day.
          >
          > If this doesn't work for you (or even if it does), consider hiking Clouds Rest instead of or in addition to half dome. It has a higher altitude, smaller crowds and similar if not superior views, and requires no additional permit.
          >
          >
          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, dsgdsguk <no_reply@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello,
          > >
          > > As an overseas visitor I'm finding the permit system very confusing and this forum the only bit of sanity in the whole process. Thank you everyone who posts here for your help and advice.
          > >
          > > For me walking the JMT is a once in a lifetime opportunity, with a 6000+ mile trip to get to Yosemite. Knowing I had a permit before flying was essential and having failed 15+ times to get a Happy Isles->Sunrise... permit I used the advice here and applied for a Happy Isles->Illilouette Falls permit and was successfully, although this failed to include a Half Dome.
          > >
          > > Whilst my application stated I would be spending my first night at Illilouette this is not mentioned on the permit which basically says :-
          > >
          > > Entry Date: xxx
          > > Entry Trailhead: Happy Isles->Illilouette
          > > Exit Date: xxx
          > > Exit Trailhead: Whitney Portal
          > > Number in Party: 1
          > > Number hiking Half Dome: 0
          > > Number of Stock: 0
          > > You may not camp at Little Yosemite Valley your first night with this permit.
          > >
          > > So I'm now wondering if applying for a half dome day permit is an option, what dates I can include and what would happen using two permits.
          > >
          > > If I include the start date of my Illilouette permit as one of my lottery options and this is the date I'm lucky enough to get a half dome day permit will I have problems collecting both from the permit office?
          > >
          > > Can I legitimately ignore what I put on my wilderness permit application and walk down LYV with all my backpacking gear on a half dome day permit? I'm not sure when and how permits are checked.
          > >
          > > Having done half dome is there a campsite outside of LYV that it is practical to reach in one day?
          > >
          > > Would there be any issues camping here on a wilderness permit that stated Illilouette as the first nights camp on the application?
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance for your replies.
          > >
          >
        • Roleigh Martin
          How old are you, what is your pace? For me, it will be Sunrise Creek, for those whose pace is longer, it will be Sunrise High Sierra Camp, or Cathedral Lake
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 3 7:14 AM
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            How old are you, what is your pace?  For me, it will be Sunrise Creek, for those whose pace is longer, it will be Sunrise High Sierra Camp, or Cathedral Lake area.
            -------------------------------------------------
            Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
            _



            On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:49 AM, dsgdsguk <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
             

            Thanks for the advice on getting a permit.

            Does anyone have any thoughts on first camping outside of LYV after half dome or any of my other questions?



            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "wcgornto" wrote:
            >
            >
            > Call the permit office and ask if there is any availability of a half dome permit to be added to your wilderness permit. Of the total day's allotment, a portion of the half dome permits are set aside for long distance hikers and not included in the general half dome lottery.
            >
            > I have a HI pass through permit for June 30. I did not request a half dome permit when I requested my wilderness permit back in mid January. I called the permit office three days ago and was able to add a half dome permit for the dame day.
            >
            > If this doesn't work for you (or even if it does), consider hiking Clouds Rest instead of or in addition to half dome. It has a higher altitude, smaller crowds and similar if not superior views, and requires no additional permit.
            >
            >
            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, dsgdsguk wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello,
            > >
            > > As an overseas visitor I'm finding the permit system very confusing and this forum the only bit of sanity in the whole process. Thank you everyone who posts here for your help and advice.
            > >
            > > For me walking the JMT is a once in a lifetime opportunity, with a 6000+ mile trip to get to Yosemite. Knowing I had a permit before flying was essential and having failed 15+ times to get a Happy Isles->Sunrise... permit I used the advice here and applied for a Happy Isles->Illilouette Falls permit and was successfully, although this failed to include a Half Dome.
            > >
            > > Whilst my application stated I would be spending my first night at Illilouette this is not mentioned on the permit which basically says :-
            > >
            > > Entry Date: xxx
            > > Entry Trailhead: Happy Isles->Illilouette
            > > Exit Date: xxx
            > > Exit Trailhead: Whitney Portal
            > > Number in Party: 1
            > > Number hiking Half Dome: 0
            > > Number of Stock: 0
            > > You may not camp at Little Yosemite Valley your first night with this permit.
            > >
            > > So I'm now wondering if applying for a half dome day permit is an option, what dates I can include and what would happen using two permits.
            > >
            > > If I include the start date of my Illilouette permit as one of my lottery options and this is the date I'm lucky enough to get a half dome day permit will I have problems collecting both from the permit office?
            > >
            > > Can I legitimately ignore what I put on my wilderness permit application and walk down LYV with all my backpacking gear on a half dome day permit? I'm not sure when and how permits are checked.
            > >
            > > Having done half dome is there a campsite outside of LYV that it is practical to reach in one day?
            > >
            > > Would there be any issues camping here on a wilderness permit that stated Illilouette as the first nights camp on the application?
            > >
            > > Thanks in advance for your replies.
            > >
            >


          • robert shattuck
            Does anyone have any thoughts on first camping outside of LYV . . . Sometimes I think there s information I should withhold––it s not all that hard to
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 3 10:55 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              "Does anyone have any thoughts on first camping outside of LYV  . . . " 

              Sometimes I think there's information I should withhold––it's not all that hard to get out on the trail and get sucked in, to return another year, simply because you found a spot that's just so fantastic, you just have to stay the night there and soak up whatever special aura there is––usually these places do not involve large herds of grazing humans. 

              There are lots of nice spots to camp between the HD junction and Sunrise. Some you will notice for the views, others, the time of day, and then others because you're just so damn tired and ready to camp just about anywhere––any sliver of flat looks good. 

              If you get a late (2-4 p.m.) start, or otherwise find yourself going really slow and your permit requires you  to get up past the HD junction there are a number of spots within 5-10 minutes of the Junction. I'd look off to the right of the trail and hopefully you have some daylight and some water. 

              There is no convenient water to be had between LYV and the HD junction. Plan accordingly. 

              Oh yeah, you will get up there a ways and you'll hear water and be all excited, but it doesn't cross the trail and I have never ventured off to find the source. You can see it on the map and you can hear it, but . . . so carry as much as you need and if you're hiking late in the day and don't know how far you'll get before dark, be prepared. 

              If you keep on going, you'll hit the first source of water there at the Sunrise creek crossing and there's some established camp spots around there . . . you'll be walking along and get glimpses or bits of chatter from folks back in the trees––but I always hear about bears in this area––again, I think that just like Lyell Canyon the bears have all sat down, mulled this over and realized that this is one of the last convenient places to come looking for food. 

              From the crossing all the way up to the Merced Lake/Tenaya  junction there are plenty more places off to the right that one could camp, with a nice view (and no water)  . . . funny, I never spend much time looking to the left––no real views––but to the right, you can see forever and if you walk off the trail up to the ridge there, amongst the trees and rocks and endless vistas, you can find little spots to camp––but I think most people manage, just like me, to walk past this area, thinking, how cool would it be to camp here for the night. 

              I've never looked and I don't think there are official camp spots, but  I've camped at the Merced Lake junction. This is one of those places where you aren't thrilled by the view, but rather, just looking for a spot to plant yourself for the night, before darkness sets in and you admit that your dream to get all the way to Sunrise camp, was just a dream fueled by that mid-afternoon burrito you had back in the valley. 

              If you find any water, drink up, fill up. Just sayin' . . . 

              Once you get past the junction there and the trail starts to gradually climb you'll come across a bunch of places to camp––little spots off to the left of the trail. You don't usually see anyone in them––most people are bound and determined to get to Sunrise––but last year I saw about three camps in there. I think it had been raining a bit and even I was thinking I might just stop on this side, but every little jewel of a camp spot was taken.

              If your time and goal is to get to Sunrise, then pay attention to the water situation. Oddly enough, that last crossing before you get up into the switch-backs is usually bone-dry, but there's always a trickle running a ways up. No Guarantee though––and usually, when you get up into the switch-backs, all exposed as they are, the sun decides to come out and bake you a bit and dry you  off, it it rained at all. 

              Once you get up through the switch-backs the trail levels out for a few hundred yards and the vistas east, open up. This is my preferred spot to camp. There's no water, but the views are great. the bugs and bears are never around––lots of flat, sandy spots to pitch a camp off to the right.  

              Usually, by the time I get up here, water or no water, I am happy to stay, but if you decide to keep on going, about 15 minutes down the trail you'll be encouraged to take in the view by climbing up on a bunch of rocks. When you look down you'll see a few very sweet spots, big enough for a tent––super nice views––I've never stayed here, but it's on my list. 

              Otherwise, you can just keep going until you get to Sunrise Camp. Lots of noisy "High Sierra Campers" . . . bugs, bears  (bear boxes) and a toilet. 


               BOB
              http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480




              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 14:49:49 +0000
              Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Illilouette Falls Option + half dome day permit questions

               
              Thanks for the advice on getting a permit.

              Does anyone have any thoughts on first camping outside of LYV after half dome or any of my other questions?

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "wcgornto" wrote:
              >
              >
              > Call the permit office and ask if there is any availability of a half dome permit to be added to your wilderness permit. Of the total day's allotment, a portion of the half dome permits are set aside for long distance hikers and not included in the general half dome lottery.
              >
              > I have a HI pass through permit for June 30. I did not request a half dome permit when I requested my wilderness permit back in mid January. I called the permit office three days ago and was able to add a half dome permit for the dame day.
              >
              > If this doesn't work for you (or even if it does), consider hiking Clouds Rest instead of or in addition to half dome. It has a higher altitude, smaller crowds and similar if not superior views, and requires no additional permit.
              >
              >
              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, dsgdsguk wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello,
              > >
              > > As an overseas visitor I'm finding the permit system very confusing and this forum the only bit of sanity in the whole process. Thank you everyone who posts here for your help and advice.
              > >
              > > For me walking the JMT is a once in a lifetime opportunity, with a 6000+ mile trip to get to Yosemite. Knowing I had a permit before flying was essential and having failed 15+ times to get a Happy Isles->Sunrise... permit I used the advice here and applied for a Happy Isles->Illilouette Falls permit and was successfully, although this failed to include a Half Dome.
              > >
              > > Whilst my application stated I would be spending my first night at Illilouette this is not mentioned on the permit which basically says :-
              > >
              > > Entry Date: xxx
              > > Entry Trailhead: Happy Isles->Illilouette
              > > Exit Date: xxx
              > > Exit Trailhead: Whitney Portal
              > > Number in Party: 1
              > > Number hiking Half Dome: 0
              > > Number of Stock: 0
              > > You may not camp at Little Yosemite Valley your first night with this permit.
              > >
              > > So I'm now wondering if applying for a half dome day permit is an option, what dates I can include and what would happen using two permits.
              > >
              > > If I include the start date of my Illilouette permit as one of my lottery options and this is the date I'm lucky enough to get a half dome day permit will I have problems collecting both from the permit office?
              > >
              > > Can I legitimately ignore what I put on my wilderness permit application and walk down LYV with all my backpacking gear on a half dome day permit? I'm not sure when and how permits are checked.
              > >
              > > Having done half dome is there a campsite outside of LYV that it is practical to reach in one day?
              > >
              > > Would there be any issues camping here on a wilderness permit that stated Illilouette as the first nights camp on the application?
              > >
              > > Thanks in advance for your replies.
              > >
              >


            • robert shattuck
              Does anyone have any thoughts on first camping outside of LYV . . . Sometimes I think there s information I should withhold––it s not all that hard to
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 3 10:57 AM
              • 0 Attachment



                 

                "Does anyone have any thoughts on first camping outside of LYV  . . . " 

                Sometimes I think there's information I should withhold––it's not all that hard to get out on the trail and get sucked in, to return another year, simply because you found a spot that's just so fantastic, you just have to stay the night there and soak up whatever special aura there is––usually these places do not involve large herds of grazing humans. 

                There are lots of nice spots to camp between the HD junction and Sunrise. Some you will notice for the views, others, the time of day, and then others because you're just so damn tired and ready to camp just about anywhere––any sliver of flat looks good. 

                If you get a late (2-4 p.m.) start, or otherwise find yourself going really slow and your permit requires you  to get up past the HD junction there are a number of spots within 5-10 minutes of the Junction. I'd look off to the right of the trail and hopefully you have some daylight and some water. 

                There is no convenient water to be had between LYV and the HD junction. Plan accordingly. 

                Oh yeah, you will get up there a ways and you'll hear water and be all excited, but it doesn't cross the trail and I have never ventured off to find the source. You can see it on the map and you can hear it, but . . . so carry as much as you need and if you're hiking late in the day and don't know how far you'll get before dark, be prepared. 

                If you keep on going, you'll hit the first source of water there at the Sunrise creek crossing and there's some established camp spots around there . . . you'll be walking along and get glimpses or bits of chatter from folks back in the trees––but I always hear about bears in this area––again, I think that just like Lyell Canyon the bears have all sat down, mulled this over and realized that this is one of the last convenient places to come looking for food. 

                From the crossing all the way up to the Merced Lake/Tenaya  junction there are plenty more places off to the right that one could camp, with a nice view (and no water)  . . . funny, I never spend much time looking to the left––no real views––but to the right, you can see forever and if you walk off the trail up to the ridge there, amongst the trees and rocks and endless vistas, you can find little spots to camp––but I think most people manage, just like me, to walk past this area, thinking, how cool would it be to camp here for the night. 

                I've never looked and I don't think there are official camp spots, but  I've camped at the Merced Lake junction. This is one of those places where you aren't thrilled by the view, but rather, just looking for a spot to plant yourself for the night, before darkness sets in and you admit that your dream to get all the way to Sunrise camp, was just a dream fueled by that mid-afternoon burrito you had back in the valley. 

                If you find any water, drink up, fill up. Just sayin' . . . 

                Once you get past the junction there and the trail starts to gradually climb you'll come across a bunch of places to camp––little spots off to the left of the trail. You don't usually see anyone in them––most people are bound and determined to get to Sunrise––but last year I saw about three camps in there. I think it had been raining a bit and even I was thinking I might just stop on this side, but every little jewel of a camp spot was taken.

                If your time and goal is to get to Sunrise, then pay attention to the water situation. Oddly enough, that last crossing before you get up into the switch-backs is usually bone-dry, but there's always a trickle running a ways up. No Guarantee though––and usually, when you get up into the switch-backs, all exposed as they are, the sun decides to come out and bake you a bit and dry you  off, it it rained at all. 

                Once you get up through the switch-backs the trail levels out for a few hundred yards and the vistas east, open up. This is my preferred spot to camp. There's no water, but the views are great. the bugs and bears are never around––lots of flat, sandy spots to pitch a camp off to the right.  

                Usually, by the time I get up here, water or no water, I am happy to stay, but if you decide to keep on going, about 15 minutes down the trail you'll be encouraged to take in the view by climbing up on a bunch of rocks. When you look down you'll see a few very sweet spots, big enough for a tent––super nice views––I've never stayed here, but it's on my list. 

                Otherwise, you can just keep going until you get to Sunrise Camp. Lots of noisy "High Sierra Campers" . . . bugs, bears  (bear boxes) and a toilet. 


                 BOB
                http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480




                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 14:49:49 +0000
                Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Illilouette Falls Option + half dome day permit questions

                 
                Thanks for the advice on getting a permit.

                Does anyone have any thoughts on first camping outside of LYV after half dome or any of my other questions?

                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "wcgornto" wrote:
                >
                >
                > Call the permit office and ask if there is any availability of a half dome permit to be added to your wilderness permit. Of the total day's allotment, a portion of the half dome permits are set aside for long distance hikers and not included in the general half dome lottery.
                >
                > I have a HI pass through permit for June 30. I did not request a half dome permit when I requested my wilderness permit back in mid January. I called the permit office three days ago and was able to add a half dome permit for the dame day.
                >
                > If this doesn't work for you (or even if it does), consider hiking Clouds Rest instead of or in addition to half dome. It has a higher altitude, smaller crowds and similar if not superior views, and requires no additional permit.
                >
                >
                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, dsgdsguk wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello,
                > >
                > > As an overseas visitor I'm finding the permit system very confusing and this forum the only bit of sanity in the whole process. Thank you everyone who posts here for your help and advice.
                > >
                > > For me walking the JMT is a once in a lifetime opportunity, with a 6000+ mile trip to get to Yosemite. Knowing I had a permit before flying was essential and having failed 15+ times to get a Happy Isles->Sunrise... permit I used the advice here and applied for a Happy Isles->Illilouette Falls permit and was successfully, although this failed to include a Half Dome.
                > >
                > > Whilst my application stated I would be spending my first night at Illilouette this is not mentioned on the permit which basically says :-
                > >
                > > Entry Date: xxx
                > > Entry Trailhead: Happy Isles->Illilouette
                > > Exit Date: xxx
                > > Exit Trailhead: Whitney Portal
                > > Number in Party: 1
                > > Number hiking Half Dome: 0
                > > Number of Stock: 0
                > > You may not camp at Little Yosemite Valley your first night with this permit.
                > >
                > > So I'm now wondering if applying for a half dome day permit is an option, what dates I can include and what would happen using two permits.
                > >
                > > If I include the start date of my Illilouette permit as one of my lottery options and this is the date I'm lucky enough to get a half dome day permit will I have problems collecting both from the permit office?
                > >
                > > Can I legitimately ignore what I put on my wilderness permit application and walk down LYV with all my backpacking gear on a half dome day permit? I'm not sure when and how permits are checked.
                > >
                > > Having done half dome is there a campsite outside of LYV that it is practical to reach in one day?
                > >
                > > Would there be any issues camping here on a wilderness permit that stated Illilouette as the first nights camp on the application?
                > >
                > > Thanks in advance for your replies.
                > >
                >



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