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Saving Weight on Hydration

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  • Darryl
    I would appreciate some suggestions on how to save weight on hydration. I currently use a Camelbak 3L reservoir (which I m not wedded to, but it does the job).
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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      I would appreciate some suggestions on how to save weight on hydration. I currently use a Camelbak 3L reservoir (which I'm not wedded to, but it does the job). Having knowledge of upcoming water sources and how far one can travel per liter seems to be a good way to reduce the load. I don't really know how to plan this out. Previously I'd fill my Camelbak up and carry an additional half a liter in a Nalgene bottle as a backup. Then I would walk "blind" until I'd stop to camp for the night near a water source. There must be a smarter way to do this, without being paranoid of running out of water. Thanks.
      Darryl
    • krishna9012
      I used to be like that. Last year (2012 was a dry year) during my 90 mile segment of JMT (VVR to Kearsarge), I was able to start the day with 1 liter in my
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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        I used to be like that. Last year (2012 was a dry year) during my 90 mile segment of JMT (VVR to Kearsarge), I was able to start the day with 1 liter in my platypus gravity filter cum hydration pack and about 0.5 liters with powerade in my Nalgene bottle (which is accessible only when I take the pack out). The hydration pack lasted till around lunch or later and I would filter another liter for the rest of the day. The only place I ran out of water was before MTR when hiking from Marie Lake to MTR, I thought 1 liter would be enough and did not stop at Senger ck and ran out of water in the hot part of the day on the switchbacks. Luckily one girl stopped by and shared her water.

        This year (2013 July/August) could be like 2011 July/Aug with plenty of water in all streams and lakes, Just a wild guess :). So at any given time I am not planning on carrying more than 1.5liters (incl the powerade mix).

        Krishna

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Darryl" <dabrahms@...> wrote:
        >
        > I would appreciate some suggestions on how to save weight on hydration. I currently use a Camelbak 3L reservoir (which I'm not wedded to, but it does the job). Having knowledge of upcoming water sources and how far one can travel per liter seems to be a good way to reduce the load. I don't really know how to plan this out. Previously I'd fill my Camelbak up and carry an additional half a liter in a Nalgene bottle as a backup. Then I would walk "blind" until I'd stop to camp for the night near a water source. There must be a smarter way to do this, without being paranoid of running out of water. Thanks.
        > Darryl
        >
      • charliepolecat
        You might look at this link to see how I handled my hydration needs. I like the idea of being able to detach the bottles for drinking and refilling easily
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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          You might look at this link to see how I handled my hydration needs. I like the idea of being able to detach the bottles for drinking and refilling easily without having to take the pack apart.

          This system also helped to pull the weight forward and not sitting on my back. As you can see, I attached velcro to the main pack straps.


          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnmuirtrail/photos/album/1432826917/pic/1022946675/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc
        • scriv.ener
          Aside from using dehydrated water, there s not much you can do to reduce water weight besides find more frequent sources. And that can be a problem if you re
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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            Aside from using dehydrated water, there's not much you can do to reduce water weight besides find more frequent sources. And that can be a problem if you're at altitude (less frequent sources, more dryness to the air) or pushing hard (less time, more sweat). Still, I find I have seldom needed more than a liter (at "a pint's a pound, the world around," that's 2#) at a time.

            If we wait until we're thirsty to drink, often it's too late, we're already below optimal hydration. So stopping frequently to re-fill that liter bottle (I use a bottle strung off my belt, easy access and easy to refill) gives an opportunity to drain the remaining bit and stock up for the next haul. Your post suggests that you're drinking but two liters during the day, and I suggest that's too little. YMMV, but this summer I found myself going through six liters a day.

            A rapid re-fill technique is necessary for this approach. I've used AquaMira drops, super light weight (and they sterilize the interior of the bottle, too), but they take a minimum of five minutes to prepare and 15 more minutes before use. My technique of choice now is Steri-Pen, and while it's faster (90 seconds), it's heavier, doesn't sterilize the lid or throat of the container, and requires fresh batteries (for me, batteries are like fuel canisters, I can never tell what remains inside).

            Of course, there's another technique, which is to simply recognize that indeed Giardia is everywhere but almost always well below the threshold of illness. Unhook that Sierra Cup from your belt, dip into that untrammeled tributary (or fast-flowing and well-aerated main stream) and drink boldly!

            ~ Jeffrey

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Darryl" <dabrahms@...> wrote:
            >
            > I would appreciate some suggestions on how to save weight
            > on hydration. ... I don't really know how to plan this out.
            > Previously I'd fill my Camelbak up and carry an additional
            > half a liter in a Nalgene bottle as a backup. Then I would
            > walk "blind" until I'd stop to camp for the night. ...
            > Darryl
            >
          • rnagarajan
            ... I like the idea of keeping bottles on the front of my pack and my Catalyst has loops for this although I ve yet to give it a try. I have been using
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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              - In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "charliepolecat" <kennethjessett@...> wrote:
              >
              > You might look at this link to see how I handled my hydration needs. I like the idea of being able to detach the bottles for drinking and refilling easily without having to take the pack apart.
              >
              > This system also helped to pull the weight forward and not sitting on my back. As you can see, I attached velcro to the main pack straps.
              >
              >
              I like the idea of keeping bottles on the front of my pack and my Catalyst has loops for this although I've yet to give it a try. I have been using Camelback bladders for day hiking and for marathon training (in a 2L Nathan hydration pack) and my big issue with bladders is that I tend to under hydrate because I can't easily tell how much water remains in the bladder. Being able to see the water level is a big plus along with not having to take apart the pack to add more. I hope to never carry more than 1.5 L at a time on the JMT which should be possible from most of what I've read except for the dry stretch after Red's Meadow and probably on the final day to avoid the reportedly less pristine water heading down to Whitney Portal.
            • John Ladd
              ... If you carry an extra dropper bottle (available at drug stores) you can mix a day s worth of the Aqua Mira drops each morning and then use the mixture the
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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                On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 12:41 PM, scriv.ener <jeffreyn@...> wrote:
                ... I've used AquaMira drops, super light weight (and they sterilize the interior of the bottle, too), but they take a minimum of five minutes to prepare and 15 more minutes before use ...

                If you carry an extra dropper bottle (available at drug stores) you can mix a day's worth of the Aqua Mira drops each morning and then use the mixture the rest of the day.  Makes it easier to pick up a liter or half-liter of water at a stream without feeling that you have to wait around for the two parts of the Aqua Mira to "cure".  You can't drink  the water at the stream, but you just start walking again and can drink it 15 minutes later.

                I also like front loading at least some of my water and have attached (via glue and 10 mil plumbers tape) a metal clip to a square 500cc Nalgene bottle that fits very firmly onto the PALS attachment strapping on my shoulder. I found some other front loading methods tended to bounce more than I liked or put more weight on my chest than I liked. This one stays put .  

                Inline image 1\\
              • Darryl
                I love the PALS recommendation, now that I know what it means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pouch_Attachment_Ladder_System Darryl
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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                  I love the PALS recommendation, now that I know what it means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pouch_Attachment_Ladder_System

                  Darryl

                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:

                  > I also like front loading at least some of my water and have attached (via
                  > glue and 10 mil plumbers tape) a metal clip to a square 500cc Nalgene
                  > bottle that fits very firmly onto the PALS attachment strapping on my
                  > shoulder. I found some other front loading methods tended to bounce more
                  > than I liked or put more weight on my chest than I liked. This one stays
                  > put .
                • Roleigh Martin
                  This topic is also being discussed in another current thread which has gotten into front packs, and I use a hydration front pack called a Camelbak Pakteen
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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                    This topic is also being discussed in another current thread which has gotten into front packs, and I use a hydration front pack called a Camelbak Pakteen which I love and have used on 3 JMT hikes.  I posted a pic of me on Glen Pass wearing it.

                    The other thread title is: "Packs that take weight off the shoulders."
                    -------------------------------------------------
                    Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                    _

                  • John Ladd
                    ... Darryl - For you and others, I should have been clear. Many military packs and some civilian ones have a set of webbing attachment points (PALS = Pouch
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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                      On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 4:35 PM, Darryl <dabrahms@...> wrote:
                       

                      I love the PALS recommendation, now that I know what it means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pouch_Attachment_Ladder_System

                      Darryl



                      Darryl - For you and others, I should have been clear. Many military packs and some civilian ones have a  set of webbing attachment points (PALS = Pouch Ladder Attachment Ladder System) that allow the very solid attachment of a variety of gear items. Darryl's link has the details.

                      There are lots of PALS pouches available for sale online, but you can also hand-fabricate a hook that will attach to PALS webbing with something like this. You remove the split ring, cut it in half with a hacksaw and glue/tape the resulting half or halves to the object you want to mount on the PALS webbing.

                      Inline image 1


                      If you want to buy one, Google "lucky Line key hook" or go to

                    • Darryl
                      Yes, I will order a few from the eBay link below. While we are talking about attachments, any thoughts on how to mount my GoLite Chrome Dome umbrella to my
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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                        Yes, I will order a few from the eBay link below. While we are talking about attachments, any thoughts on how to mount my GoLite Chrome Dome umbrella to my Arcteryx backpack or Leki trekking pole for shade when I rest? http://www.golite.com/Chrome-Dome-Trekking-Umbrella-P928.aspx

                        Darryl

                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > http://174.127.108.27/~luckhow2/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/belt-hook.jpg
                        >
                        > If you want to buy one, Google "lucky Line key hook" or go to
                        >
                        > http://www.ebay.com/itm/360481462934?hlp=false
                        >
                      • Dale Stuart
                        Darryl, I carry 2, 20-24oz sport drink bottles, one bungied to each side of my shoulder straps.  I drink from one while the other cooks with aqua mira water
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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                          Darryl, I carry 2, 20-24oz sport drink bottles, one bungied to each side of my shoulder straps.  I drink from one while the other "cooks" with aqua mira water treatment. When drinkable bottle goes dry, refill at next stream and add aqua mira and switch to bottle that has finished "cooking". 
                           
                          -Dale

                          From: Darryl <dabrahms@...>
                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:25 AM
                          Subject: [John Muir Trail] Saving Weight on Hydration

                           
                          I would appreciate some suggestions on how to save weight on hydration. I currently use a Camelbak 3L reservoir (which I'm not wedded to, but it does the job). Having knowledge of upcoming water sources and how far one can travel per liter seems to be a good way to reduce the load. I don't really know how to plan this out. Previously I'd fill my Camelbak up and carry an additional half a liter in a Nalgene bottle as a backup. Then I would walk "blind" until I'd stop to camp for the night near a water source. There must be a smarter way to do this, without being paranoid of running out of water. Thanks.
                          Darryl



                        • Allen Currano
                          I drank at water sources and rarely carried more than half a liter. One liter max. No filter, just a few iodine tablets which I only used a couple times. It
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 29, 2012
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                            I drank at water sources and rarely carried more than half a liter. One liter max. No filter, just a few iodine tablets which I only used a couple times. It was pretty easy to tell where water sources would be from the maps, even in Sept. 2012.

                          • rnagarajan
                            Having the hydration bladder on the front would have the advantage of being able to tell how much remains at any point in time making it less likely to under
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 30, 2012
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                              Having the hydration bladder on the front would have the advantage of being able to tell how much remains at any point in time making it less likely to under hydrate in an effort to be conservative with water. Does this strap to the front of most packs more securely than using water bottles on shoulder straps like the Catalyst loops make possible?

                              Also on the topic of hydration, my gear list has penciled in the Steripen system for water treatment but I'm looking to cut more weight and am now leaning toward Aquamira. I could cut around 8 ounces by replacing the Steripen along with extra batteries with Aquamira drops good for 30 gallons of water (probably good for the whole trip but I'd put another set of drops in MTR resupply to be sure). I've read that it takes 15 minutes except for cloudy water which could require 30 minutes. With some planning I don't think that waiting period would be too much of a problem.

                              I'm more skeptical about using Aquamira rather than a filter or some other system on the Appalachian Trail where water is less pure than the JMT. But on the AT I wouldn't be burdened with a bear can so there would be room to add a filter and base weight would still be a lot lower.


                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > This topic is also being discussed in another current thread which has
                              > gotten into front packs, and I use a hydration front pack called a Camelbak
                              > Pakteen which I love and have used on 3 JMT hikes. I posted a pic of me on
                              > Glen Pass wearing it.
                              >
                              > The other thread title is: "Packs that take weight off the shoulders."
                              > -------------------------------------------------
                              > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                              > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                              > _
                              >
                            • Ron Cordell
                              I used Aquamira on the JMT with no issues. I had way more than I needed, purifying about 5 liters a day. I had no problem filling my platypus from various
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 30, 2012
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                                I used Aquamira on the JMT with no issues. I had way more than I needed, purifying about 5 liters a day.

                                I had no problem filling my platypus from various water sources cleanly, such as from running water over a rock edge. On the AT a pump is useful for pulling water from slow or shallow sources like springs, but that was never the case on the JMT. Even for lake water I could easily fill up at a spot down from the lake outlet.

                                Purifying water would be: prepare the AM by mixing the two parts, go fill the platypus, wait for the AM to be ready then put it in the water and mix. 15 minutes down the trail I had water ready to go.

                                I've used a pump on the AT for years but AM was very good on the JMT and I was glad to not have the weight of the pump.

                                On Dec 30, 2012 10:09 AM, "rnagarajan" <ravi@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Having the hydration bladder on the front would have the advantage of being able to tell how much remains at any point in time making it less likely to under hydrate in an effort to be conservative with water. Does this strap to the front of most packs more securely than using water bottles on shoulder straps like the Catalyst loops make possible?

                                Also on the topic of hydration, my gear list has penciled in the Steripen system for water treatment but I'm looking to cut more weight and am now leaning toward Aquamira. I could cut around 8 ounces by replacing the Steripen along with extra batteries with Aquamira drops good for 30 gallons of water (probably good for the whole trip but I'd put another set of drops in MTR resupply to be sure). I've read that it takes 15 minutes except for cloudy water which could require 30 minutes. With some planning I don't think that waiting period would be too much of a problem.

                                I'm more skeptical about using Aquamira rather than a filter or some other system on the Appalachian Trail where water is less pure than the JMT. But on the AT I wouldn't be burdened with a bear can so there would be room to add a filter and base weight would still be a lot lower.

                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > This topic is also being discussed in another current thread which has
                                > gotten into front packs, and I use a hydration front pack called a Camelbak
                                > Pakteen which I love and have used on 3 JMT hikes. I posted a pic of me on
                                > Glen Pass wearing it.
                                >
                                > The other thread title is: "Packs that take weight off the shoulders."
                                > -------------------------------------------------
                                > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                                > links)<https://profiles.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                                > _
                                >

                              • John Ladd
                                ... I m not usually all that weight-conscious, but I switched to Alta Mira drops after the failure of two filters in a single summer. One was my stupidity
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 30, 2012
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                                  On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Ron Cordell <ron.cordell@...> wrote:
                                  I've used a pump on the AT for years but AM was very good on the JMT and I was glad to not have the weight of the pump.

                                  I'm not usually all that weight-conscious, but I switched to Alta Mira drops after the failure of two filters in a single summer.  One was my stupidity (did't clean out the filter and it got clogged and we broke it with excess pressure) and one was a manufacturing defect. One nice thing about the AM drops is there is nothing to break.
                                • Gail
                                  Is there an advantage to using the drops over the tablets?
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 31, 2012
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                                    Is there an advantage to using the drops over the tablets?

                                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Ron Cordell <ron.cordell@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I've used a pump on the AT for years but AM was very good on the JMT and I
                                    > > was glad to not have the weight of the pump.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I'm not usually all that weight-conscious, but I switched to Alta Mira
                                    > drops after the failure of two filters in a single summer. One was my
                                    > stupidity (did't clean out the filter and it got clogged and we broke it
                                    > with excess pressure) and one was a manufacturing defect. One nice thing
                                    > about the AM drops is there is nothing to break.
                                    >
                                  • John Ladd
                                    ... I tended to worry that the tablets might not dissolve quickly. Others who have used them might comment.
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 31, 2012
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                                      On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Gail <forgetwho@...> wrote:
                                      Is there an advantage to using the drops over the tablets?

                                      I tended to worry that the tablets might not dissolve quickly. Others who have used them might comment.

                                    • alanjrich007
                                      I ve been happy with the Potable Aqua PA Plus tablets. The iodine tablet can be a little slow to dissolve in cold water; I fill my bottle then pop a tablet
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 31, 2012
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                                        I've been happy with the Potable Aqua PA Plus tablets.  The iodine tablet can be a little slow to dissolve in cold water; I fill my bottle then pop a tablet in, then after 5 minutes or so when it's dissolved I shake the bottle to mix it.  In 30 minutes your water is purified. 

                                        The PA Plus version has a second tablet you can add after this 30 minutes to neutralize the iodine - it dissolves quickly, removes any iodine taste and leaves the water clear. 

                                        It's a pretty simple and trouble-free system...

                                        Alan


                                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd wrote:
                                        >
                                        > On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Gail forgetwho@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Is there an advantage to using the drops over the tablets?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I tended to worry that the tablets might not dissolve quickly. Others who
                                        > have used them might comment.
                                        >
                                      • charliepolecat
                                        I use the tablets. I break them in half because they are for twice the quantity of my individual water bottles. No problem with dissolving.
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jan 1, 2013
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                                          I use the tablets. I break them in half because they are for twice the quantity of my individual water bottles. No problem with dissolving.



                                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Gail <forgetwho@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > Is there an advantage to using the drops over the tablets?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I tended to worry that the tablets might not dissolve quickly. Others who
                                          > have used them might comment.
                                          >
                                        • Don
                                          The drops are quicker than the tablets. See the manufacturers specs for the details. You might want to do a little research to determine if water treatment is
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jan 1, 2013
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                                            The drops are quicker than the tablets. See the manufacturers' specs for the details. You might want to do a little research to determine if water treatment is necessary. It's a shame to alter the taste of the alpine water.

                                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <forgetwho@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Is there an advantage to using the drops over the tablets?
                                          • John Ladd
                                            ... There s a pretty considerable price difference A 24-tablet package of the tablets treats 24 qts and costs $14.95 list or $0.63 per qt The 1-ounce bottles
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jan 1, 2013
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                                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <forgetwho@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Is there an advantage to using the drops over the tablets?

                                              There's a pretty considerable price difference

                                              A 24-tablet package of the tablets treats 24 qts and costs $14.95 list or $0.63 per qt

                                              The 1-ounce bottles of drops that are usually used in the field treat 120 qts and cost $14.95 or $0.12 per quart

                                              A pair of the 2-oz bottles of drops (good for refilling the 1-ounce bottles) treats 240 qts and costs 16.95 list  or $0.07 per qt

                                              Say you want to treat a gallon a day for 22 days, the tablets will cost $55 and the drops $6 to $9, depending on whether you buy them in the larger or smaller size bottles.  (The larger size does require re-packaging into the smaller bottles you carry. The one-ounce bottles can be refilled)

                                              John Curran Ladd
                                              1616 Castro Street
                                              San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                              415-648-9279



                                            • Robert
                                              A big +1 to what John says here on AM drops. I switched last summer, and won t go back to a filter in the Sierras. I used a small black dropper bottle with
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jan 1, 2013
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                                                A big +1 to what John says here on AM drops. I switched last summer, and won't go back to a filter in the Sierras. I used a small black dropper bottle with enough premixed drops to treat all of my water for the day. You need to do a little experimenting to match drop volume compared to the AM bottles. As long as the bottle with the premix solution does not allow light in, the premix mixture will stay good for a day or more.

                                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Ron Cordell <ron.cordell@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > I've used a pump on the AT for years but AM was very good on the JMT and I
                                                > > was glad to not have the weight of the pump.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I'm not usually all that weight-conscious, but I switched to Alta Mira
                                                > drops after the failure of two filters in a single summer. One was my
                                                > stupidity (did't clean out the filter and it got clogged and we broke it
                                                > with excess pressure) and one was a manufacturing defect. One nice thing
                                                > about the AM drops is there is nothing to break.
                                                >
                                              • John Ladd
                                                ... duct tape to keep the light out. If you leave a small gap in the tape you can see how much liquid remains in the premix bottle
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jan 1, 2013
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                                                  On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                                   

                                                  ... I used a small black dropper bottle with enough premixed drops to treat all of my water for the day. You need to do a little experimenting to match drop volume compared to the AM bottles. As long as the bottle with the premix solution does not allow light in, the premix mixture will stay good for a day or more.


                                                  If you don't have a black bottle, wrap a regular dropper bottle with some duct tape to keep the light out. If you leave a small gap in the tape you can see how much liquid remains in the premix bottle
                                                • Gail
                                                  Thanks to all of you who have commented on this. You ve convinced me to carry the drops - and also to leave my Steripen at home.
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jan 1, 2013
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                                                    Thanks to all of you who have commented on this. You've convinced me to carry the drops - and also to leave my Steripen at home.

                                                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > > **
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ... I used a small black dropper bottle with enough premixed drops to
                                                    > > treat all of my water for the day. You need to do a little experimenting to
                                                    > > match drop volume compared to the AM bottles. As long as the bottle with
                                                    > > the premix solution does not allow light in, the premix mixture will stay
                                                    > > good for a day or more.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > If you don't have a black bottle, wrap a regular dropper bottle with some
                                                    > duct tape to keep the light out. If you leave a small gap in the tape you
                                                    > can see how much liquid remains in the premix bottle
                                                    >
                                                  • Herb
                                                    On the issue of chemical treatment, we have used Micropur tabs for their convenience and the fact they do not seem to impact taste. They are, however, somewhat
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Jan 2, 2013
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                                                      On the issue of chemical treatment, we have used Micropur tabs for their convenience and the fact they do not seem to impact taste. They are, however, somewhat more expensive. I have not had any problem with them dissolving properly.

                                                      Note that technically aqua mira does not address giardia after just 15 minutes, and in fact, does not claim it is effective as to giardia at all. To make that assertion requires calling for exposure of 4 hours. Micropur wants to market that it is effective against giardia, hence its labeling says you must wait 4 hours. AM wants to tout the water is ready to drink in 15 minutes, so omits the giardia claim.

                                                      Both of the above chemical treatments do essentially the same thing in about the same amount of time. In most instances 15 minutes will kill all of the nasties. But there are variables that impact how long the process takes, such as temperature, presence of organic matter, ph levels, and water turbidity. If you are truly concerned over giardia in particular and want to be absolutely certain, you should allow for a four hour wait time whether using AM or Micropur.

                                                      If weight and giardia effectiveness are the only issues, consider an inline Sawyer filter that attaches to your camelbac in place of the bite value. They are about 4 ounces and, obviously, require no wait time at all.

                                                      Having said all that, in the Sierra we almost always drink out of the natural water sources. The only exceptions are areas in which there is heavy stock or human activity, and there we use chemical treatment. We rarely wait the 4 hours, but try to give the chemicals as much quality time with the water as we can before drinking.

                                                      Finally, I use a camelbac but started carrying it in a side pocket rather than inside the pack. Although I still cannot see it with the pack on, I can reach around and feel how much water I have left. In addition, water can be added without opening the pack. Personally, I drink more when I have a water tube in easy reach so it is important for me to make the system work. If we are desert hiking and sticker bushes are a concern, I put my tveck drop cloth around the camelbac. This not only protects from punctures but helps insulate as well.

                                                      Herb

                                                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Darryl" <dabrahms@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > I would appreciate some suggestions on how to save weight on hydration. I currently use a Camelbak 3L reservoir (which I'm not wedded to, but it does the job). Having knowledge of upcoming water sources and how far one can travel per liter seems to be a good way to reduce the load. I don't really know how to plan this out. Previously I'd fill my Camelbak up and carry an additional half a liter in a Nalgene bottle as a backup. Then I would walk "blind" until I'd stop to camp for the night near a water source. There must be a smarter way to do this, without being paranoid of running out of water. Thanks.
                                                      > Darryl
                                                      >
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