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VVR friend-food-drop adjustments

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  • segstak
    Hello all, Hope you guys are doing well! I m back to pick everyone s brains a little bit more. :) Hope you don t mind! I ve been away from the forum for (what
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 31 11:43 PM
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      Hello all,

      Hope you guys are doing well! I'm back to pick everyone's brains a little bit more. :) Hope you don't mind!

      I've been away from the forum for (what seems like) only a few days, and it turns out the VVR ferry decided to take a hike while I was gone. This is a problem because a couple of my friends offered to food drop and join me for two nights/three days along the trail between VVR and MTR (READ: I didn't send out my food drop to MTR!). The original plan was for them to: 1) take two cars to MTR/Lake Florence, 2) park one and drive the other to VVR, and 3) have third friend drive back home from there. Because one of these said friends is very new to backpacking, I don't want him to have too intense or hard of an experience from the get-go. Given that the VVR ferry is out, adding another 5 miles onto a day is pushing it a little bit (I also didn't realize that it was a 5 mile hike out from MTR to the Lake Florence ferry as well).

      Here's the alternative schedule that I'm considering now:

      1) They'll get dropped off at the Bear Ridge TH instead (is it pretty accessible by car/jeep?).
      2) We'll meet up at the JMT/Bear Ridge junction, and either a) camp there or b) make it down the switchbacks if there's enough daylight. Either way a sub-10 mile day for them.
      3) The second day will be a 12 mile day to the Sallie Keyes Lakes area, just past Selden Pass.
      4) The third day will be an easy day for them, with a quick 4-5 miles or so to MTR, and another 4.7 to the Florence Lake ferry. My understanding is that it'll mostly be downhill, and they just need to be at the dock by the early afternoon.

      They'll be hiking in with my MTR food drop, so for the two nights we're together, we'll split the food weight between the three of us (8 days worth).

      How does this plan sound to you guys? I'd love any feedback or comments you guys may have. Another question, how bad of an idea is it to camp near the ~10,000ft passes (Selden, Silver)? I'm camping in a Big Agnes Flycreek 2. I know that it's dangerous to be caught up that high in a thunderstorm, but I don't have a very good idea on how likely it is to be caught in a potentially dangerous and/or life-threatening situation.

      Thank you for your help!! I really appreciate it.
    • John Ladd
      Plan sounds workable, but suggest that your friends use Bear Creek Cutoff trail instead and you hike down Bear Creek to join them, and then reverse to head
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 1, 2012
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        Plan sounds workable, but suggest that your friends use Bear Creek Cutoff trail instead and you hike down Bear Creek to join them, and then reverse to head back to the JMT. Your inexperienced friend will like Bear Creek much better than Bear Ridge. The trailhead for the cutoff trail is south of the Bear Ridge trailhead.

        Lots of prior discussions on these options if you google

        inurl:johnmuirtrail "bear creek cutoff"

        Map at

        http://goo.gl/maps/hYJFW

        John Curran Ladd
        1616 Castro Street
        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
        415-648-9279


        On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 11:43 PM, segstak <avoidseigi@...> wrote:
         

        Hello all,

        Hope you guys are doing well! I'm back to pick everyone's brains a little bit more. :) Hope you don't mind!

        I've been away from the forum for (what seems like) only a few days, and it turns out the VVR ferry decided to take a hike while I was gone. This is a problem because a couple of my friends offered to food drop and join me for two nights/three days along the trail between VVR and MTR (READ: I didn't send out my food drop to MTR!). The original plan was for them to: 1) take two cars to MTR/Lake Florence, 2) park one and drive the other to VVR, and 3) have third friend drive back home from there. Because one of these said friends is very new to backpacking, I don't want him to have too intense or hard of an experience from the get-go. Given that the VVR ferry is out, adding another 5 miles onto a day is pushing it a little bit (I also didn't realize that it was a 5 mile hike out from MTR to the Lake Florence ferry as well).

        Here's the alternative schedule that I'm considering now:

        1) They'll get dropped off at the Bear Ridge TH instead (is it pretty accessible by car/jeep?).
        2) We'll meet up at the JMT/Bear Ridge junction, and either a) camp there or b) make it down the switchbacks if there's enough daylight. Either way a sub-10 mile day for them.
        3) The second day will be a 12 mile day to the Sallie Keyes Lakes area, just past Selden Pass.
        4) The third day will be an easy day for them, with a quick 4-5 miles or so to MTR, and another 4.7 to the Florence Lake ferry. My understanding is that it'll mostly be downhill, and they just need to be at the dock by the early afternoon.

        They'll be hiking in with my MTR food drop, so for the two nights we're together, we'll split the food weight between the three of us (8 days worth).

        How does this plan sound to you guys? I'd love any feedback or comments you guys may have. Another question, how bad of an idea is it to camp near the ~10,000ft passes (Selden, Silver)? I'm camping in a Big Agnes Flycreek 2. I know that it's dangerous to be caught up that high in a thunderstorm, but I don't have a very good idea on how likely it is to be caught in a potentially dangerous and/or life-threatening situation.

        Thank you for your help!! I really appreciate it.


      • shawn peterson
        I was going to recommend the very same thing...bear creek trail for sure for a new guy.  Scenic....mellow...lots of pretty water....and he won t even realize
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 1, 2012
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          I was going to recommend the very same thing...bear creek trail for sure for a new guy.  Scenic....mellow...lots of pretty water....and he won't even realize he's gaining elevation over the 7.6 miles from teh bear diversion dam to the JMT junction....
           
          As for camping at Selden....
           
          Marie Lakes is great and Rosemarie meadows which is a bit north of the pass.
           
          As for your "downhill" to MTR from Sallie Keyes...it drops pretty quick with plenty of switchbacks.  I would do it earlier in the day than later due to exposure to the sun.  It gets pretty hot over there and you end up in some horse hooved chewed up rocky trail in ther manzinita.  The hike from MTR to Florence Ferry is pretty straight forward...unremarkable...and could be a bit dry due to current water conditions.....
           
          Shawn
           
           

          --- On Wed, 8/1/12, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:

          From: John Ladd <johnladd@...>
          Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] VVR friend-food-drop adjustments
          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2012, 8:29 AM

           
          Plan sounds workable, but suggest that your friends use Bear Creek Cutoff trail instead and you hike down Bear Creek to join them, and then reverse to head back to the JMT. Your inexperienced friend will like Bear Creek much better than Bear Ridge. The trailhead for the cutoff trail is south of the Bear Ridge trailhead.

          Lots of prior discussions on these options if you google

          inurl:johnmuirtrail "bear creek cutoff"

          Map at

          http://goo.gl/maps/hYJFW

          John Curran Ladd
          1616 Castro Street
          San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
          415-648-9279


          On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 11:43 PM, segstak <avoidseigi@...> wrote:
           
          Hello all,

          Hope you guys are doing well! I'm back to pick everyone's brains a little bit more. :) Hope you don't mind!

          I've been away from the forum for (what seems like) only a few days, and it turns out the VVR ferry decided to take a hike while I was gone. This is a problem because a couple of my friends offered to food drop and join me for two nights/three days along the trail between VVR and MTR (READ: I didn't send out my food drop to MTR!). The original plan was for them to: 1) take two cars to MTR/Lake Florence, 2) park one and drive the other to VVR, and 3) have third friend drive back home from there. Because one of these said friends is very new to backpacking, I don't want him to have too intense or hard of an experience from the get-go. Given that the VVR ferry is out, adding another 5 miles onto a day is pushing it a little bit (I also didn't realize that it was a 5 mile hike out from MTR to the Lake Florence ferry as well).

          Here's the alternative schedule that I'm considering now:

          1) They'll get dropped off at the Bear Ridge TH instead (is it pretty accessible by car/jeep?).
          2) We'll meet up at the JMT/Bear Ridge junction, and either a) camp there or b) make it down the switchbacks if there's enough daylight. Either way a sub-10 mile day for them.
          3) The second day will be a 12 mile day to the Sallie Keyes Lakes area, just past Selden Pass.
          4) The third day will be an easy day for them, with a quick 4-5 miles or so to MTR, and another 4.7 to the Florence Lake ferry. My understanding is that it'll mostly be downhill, and they just need to be at the dock by the early afternoon.

          They'll be hiking in with my MTR food drop, so for the two nights we're together, we'll split the food weight between the three of us (8 days worth).

          How does this plan sound to you guys? I'd love any feedback or comments you guys may have. Another question, how bad of an idea is it to camp near the ~10,000ft passes (Selden, Silver)? I'm camping in a Big Agnes Flycreek 2. I know that it's dangerous to be caught up that high in a thunderstorm, but I don't have a very good idea on how likely it is to be caught in a potentially dangerous and/or life-threatening situation.

          Thank you for your help!! I really appreciate it.


        • segstak
          Shawn, John, Thank you two for your quick replies! I am definitely going to go with your guys advice and have my friends hike up through Bear Creek trail.
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 1, 2012
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            Shawn, John,

            Thank you two for your quick replies! I am definitely going to go with your guys' advice and have my friends hike up through Bear Creek trail. Great to know that Marie Lakes is camp-able. I'm hoping to make it over the pass on the second day anyway, but it'll be nice to keep in mind as a fall-back option. Whooo! Excited!

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, shawn peterson <pdawg893@...> wrote:
            >
            > I was going to recommend the very same thing...bear creek trail for sure for a new guy.  Scenic....mellow...lots of pretty water....and he won't even realize he's gaining elevation over the 7.6 miles from teh bear diversion dam to the JMT junction....
            >  
            > As for camping at Selden....
            >  
            > Marie Lakes is great and Rosemarie meadows which is a bit north of the pass.
            >  
            > As for your "downhill" to MTR from Sallie Keyes...it drops pretty quick with plenty of switchbacks.  I would do it earlier in the day than later due to exposure to the sun.  It gets pretty hot over there and you end up in some horse hooved chewed up rocky trail in ther manzinita.  The hike from MTR to Florence Ferry is pretty straight forward...unremarkable...and could be a bit dry due to current water conditions.....
            >  
            > Shawn
            >  
            >  
            >
            > --- On Wed, 8/1/12, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: John Ladd <johnladd@...>
            > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] VVR friend-food-drop adjustments
            > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2012, 8:29 AM
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > Plan sounds workable, but suggest that your friends use Bear Creek Cutoff trail instead and you hike down Bear Creek to join them, and then reverse to head back to the JMT. Your inexperienced friend will like Bear Creek much better than Bear Ridge. The trailhead for the cutoff trail is south of the Bear Ridge trailhead.
            >
            >
            > Lots of prior discussions on these options if you google
            >
            >
            > inurl:johnmuirtrail "bear creek cutoff"
            >
            >
            > Map at
            >
            >
            > http://goo.gl/maps/hYJFW
            >
            >
            > John Curran Ladd
            > 1616 Castro Street
            > San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
            > 415-648-9279
            >
            >
            >
            > On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 11:43 PM, segstak <avoidseigi@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > Hello all,
            >
            > Hope you guys are doing well! I'm back to pick everyone's brains a little bit more. :) Hope you don't mind!
            >
            > I've been away from the forum for (what seems like) only a few days, and it turns out the VVR ferry decided to take a hike while I was gone. This is a problem because a couple of my friends offered to food drop and join me for two nights/three days along the trail between VVR and MTR (READ: I didn't send out my food drop to MTR!). The original plan was for them to: 1) take two cars to MTR/Lake Florence, 2) park one and drive the other to VVR, and 3) have third friend drive back home from there. Because one of these said friends is very new to backpacking, I don't want him to have too intense or hard of an experience from the get-go. Given that the VVR ferry is out, adding another 5 miles onto a day is pushing it a little bit (I also didn't realize that it was a 5 mile hike out from MTR to the Lake Florence ferry as well).
            >
            > Here's the alternative schedule that I'm considering now:
            >
            > 1) They'll get dropped off at the Bear Ridge TH instead (is it pretty accessible by car/jeep?).
            > 2) We'll meet up at the JMT/Bear Ridge junction, and either a) camp there or b) make it down the switchbacks if there's enough daylight. Either way a sub-10 mile day for them.
            > 3) The second day will be a 12 mile day to the Sallie Keyes Lakes area, just past Selden Pass.
            > 4) The third day will be an easy day for them, with a quick 4-5 miles or so to MTR, and another 4.7 to the Florence Lake ferry. My understanding is that it'll mostly be downhill, and they just need to be at the dock by the early afternoon.
            >
            > They'll be hiking in with my MTR food drop, so for the two nights we're together, we'll split the food weight between the three of us (8 days worth).
            >
            > How does this plan sound to you guys? I'd love any feedback or comments you guys may have. Another question, how bad of an idea is it to camp near the ~10,000ft passes (Selden, Silver)? I'm camping in a Big Agnes Flycreek 2. I know that it's dangerous to be caught up that high in a thunderstorm, but I don't have a very good idea on how likely it is to be caught in a potentially dangerous and/or life-threatening situation.
            >
            > Thank you for your help!! I really appreciate it.
            >
          • shawn peterson
            When are you leaving?   We will be setting out from the Bear Creek Trail on August 15th heading northbound....   Word of advice...its not called Bear Creek
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 1, 2012
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              When are you leaving?
               
              We will be setting out from the Bear Creek Trail on August 15th heading northbound....
               
              Word of advice...its not called Bear Creek for nothing....take care with your food and smellies....

              --- On Wed, 8/1/12, segstak <avoidseigi@...> wrote:

              From: segstak <avoidseigi@...>
              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] VVR friend-food-drop adjustments
              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2012, 9:45 AM

               
              Shawn, John,

              Thank you two for your quick replies! I am definitely going to go with your guys' advice and have my friends hike up through Bear Creek trail. Great to know that Marie Lakes is camp-able. I'm hoping to make it over the pass on the second day anyway, but it'll be nice to keep in mind as a fall-back option. Whooo! Excited!

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, shawn peterson <pdawg893@...> wrote:
              >
              > I was going to recommend the very same thing...bear creek trail for sure for a new guy.  Scenic....mellow...lots of pretty water....and he won't even realize he's gaining elevation over the 7.6 miles from teh bear diversion dam to the JMT junction....
              >  
              > As for camping at Selden....
              >  
              > Marie Lakes is great and Rosemarie meadows which is a bit north of the pass.
              >  
              > As for your "downhill" to MTR from Sallie Keyes...it drops pretty quick with plenty of switchbacks.  I would do it earlier in the day than later due to exposure to the sun.  It gets pretty hot over there and you end up in some horse hooved chewed up rocky trail in ther manzinita.  The hike from MTR to Florence Ferry is pretty straight forward...unremarkable...and could be a bit dry due to current water conditions.....
              >  
              > Shawn
              >  
              >  
              >
              > --- On Wed, 8/1/12, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: John Ladd <johnladd@...>
              > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] VVR friend-food-drop adjustments
              > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2012, 8:29 AM
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              > Plan sounds workable, but suggest that your friends use Bear Creek Cutoff trail instead and you hike down Bear Creek to join them, and then reverse to head back to the JMT. Your inexperienced friend will like Bear Creek much better than Bear Ridge. The trailhead for the cutoff trail is south of the Bear Ridge trailhead.
              >
              >
              > Lots of prior discussions on these options if you google
              >
              >
              > inurl:johnmuirtrail "bear creek cutoff"
              >
              >
              > Map at
              >
              >
              > http://goo.gl/maps/hYJFW
              >
              >
              > John Curran Ladd
              > 1616 Castro Street
              > San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
              > 415-648-9279
              >
              >
              >
              > On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 11:43 PM, segstak <avoidseigi@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              > Hello all,
              >
              > Hope you guys are doing well! I'm back to pick everyone's brains a little bit more. :) Hope you don't mind!
              >
              > I've been away from the forum for (what seems like) only a few days, and it turns out the VVR ferry decided to take a hike while I was gone. This is a problem because a couple of my friends offered to food drop and join me for two nights/three days along the trail between VVR and MTR (READ: I didn't send out my food drop to MTR!). The original plan was for them to: 1) take two cars to MTR/Lake Florence, 2) park one and drive the other to VVR, and 3) have third friend drive back home from there. Because one of these said friends is very new to backpacking, I don't want him to have too intense or hard of an experience from the get-go. Given that the VVR ferry is out, adding another 5 miles onto a day is pushing it a little bit (I also didn't realize that it was a 5 mile hike out from MTR to the Lake Florence ferry as well).
              >
              > Here's the alternative schedule that I'm considering now:
              >
              > 1) They'll get dropped off at the Bear Ridge TH instead (is it pretty accessible by car/jeep?).
              > 2) We'll meet up at the JMT/Bear Ridge junction, and either a) camp there or b) make it down the switchbacks if there's enough daylight. Either way a sub-10 mile day for them.
              > 3) The second day will be a 12 mile day to the Sallie Keyes Lakes area, just past Selden Pass.
              > 4) The third day will be an easy day for them, with a quick 4-5 miles or so to MTR, and another 4.7 to the Florence Lake ferry. My understanding is that it'll mostly be downhill, and they just need to be at the dock by the early afternoon.
              >
              > They'll be hiking in with my MTR food drop, so for the two nights we're together, we'll split the food weight between the three of us (8 days worth).
              >
              > How does this plan sound to you guys? I'd love any feedback or comments you guys may have. Another question, how bad of an idea is it to camp near the ~10,000ft passes (Selden, Silver)? I'm camping in a Big Agnes Flycreek 2. I know that it's dangerous to be caught up that high in a thunderstorm, but I don't have a very good idea on how likely it is to be caught in a potentially dangerous and/or life-threatening situation.
              >
              > Thank you for your help!! I really appreciate it.
              >

            • robert shattuck
              Well, you ve got me confused . . . if anything, for your friend s sake (the inexperienced one?) I would certainly do the Bear Creek Cut-off trailhead,
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 1, 2012
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                Well, you've got me confused . . . if anything, for your friend's sake (the inexperienced one?) I would certainly do the Bear Creek Cut-off trailhead, otherwise you're likely to really piss him off on the Bear Ridge Trail. 

                AND AGAIN, BE AWARE . . . since your friends might be coming from Florence, they do not want to make the mistake of heading out to the BEAR CREEK DIVERSION DAM. this is a 4WD road that goes back about 4-5 miles to the dam/trailhead. 

                The Bear Creek Cut-off trailhead is easy to find and right there, off the road. With cell phone coverage very sketchy out there, you don't need any type of confusion.

                There's plenty of camping at the JMT/ Bear Creek junction . . . not to mention, plenty of water and a decent gain in elevation. 

                . . . So your friends are bringing in the resupply that you would have had waiting at MTR, but instead they're going to bring it in and you'll all carry it to MTR? 

                And they are supposedly meeting you at the JMT/BC junction? 

                I'd have them drop a car at Florence then drive up to VVR. Get some good love from the kitchen there, some beer, a nice night under the stars before they hate you, maybe . . . and in the morning you all pile into a car and drive back down to the Bear Creek Cut-off trailhead. 

                This of course means that you miss out on back-tracking back out of the VVR and up over Bear Ridge, but it also means that you all avoid the possibility of missing one another, out there at the junction. You can then camp along Bear Creek. That would be a good first day out. 

                Day two . . . cross Bear Creek and get up to Marie Lakes to spend the rest of the day and night. 

                Day three . . . over (easy) Selden and down to MTR . . . if you have time, cross the river, sit in the tub––otherwise, your friends head out to Florence. 

                I haven't been in or out on Florence in a few years, but they did have a phone there that you could use to call and let them know you are waiting. You might also buy your boat tickets when you park the car. 

                If you guys are all feeling good on day one, you might just try shooting for Marie Lakes, or at least Rosemarie Meadow––that way you could spend a lot more time at Marie Lakes


                BOB
                http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480




                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                From: avoidseigi@...
                Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 06:43:03 +0000
                Subject: [John Muir Trail] VVR friend-food-drop adjustments

                 
                Hello all,

                Hope you guys are doing well! I'm back to pick everyone's brains a little bit more. :) Hope you don't mind!

                I've been away from the forum for (what seems like) only a few days, and it turns out the VVR ferry decided to take a hike while I was gone. This is a problem because a couple of my friends offered to food drop and join me for two nights/three days along the trail between VVR and MTR (READ: I didn't send out my food drop to MTR!). The original plan was for them to: 1) take two cars to MTR/Lake Florence, 2) park one and drive the other to VVR, and 3) have third friend drive back home from there. Because one of these said friends is very new to backpacking, I don't want him to have too intense or hard of an experience from the get-go. Given that the VVR ferry is out, adding another 5 miles onto a day is pushing it a little bit (I also didn't realize that it was a 5 mile hike out from MTR to the Lake Florence ferry as well).

                Here's the alternative schedule that I'm considering now:

                1) They'll get dropped off at the Bear Ridge TH instead (is it pretty accessible by car/jeep?).
                2) We'll meet up at the JMT/Bear Ridge junction, and either a) camp there or b) make it down the switchbacks if there's enough daylight. Either way a sub-10 mile day for them.
                3) The second day will be a 12 mile day to the Sallie Keyes Lakes area, just past Selden Pass.
                4) The third day will be an easy day for them, with a quick 4-5 miles or so to MTR, and another 4.7 to the Florence Lake ferry. My understanding is that it'll mostly be downhill, and they just need to be at the dock by the early afternoon.

                They'll be hiking in with my MTR food drop, so for the two nights we're together, we'll split the food weight between the three of us (8 days worth).

                How does this plan sound to you guys? I'd love any feedback or comments you guys may have. Another question, how bad of an idea is it to camp near the ~10,000ft passes (Selden, Silver)? I'm camping in a Big Agnes Flycreek 2. I know that it's dangerous to be caught up that high in a thunderstorm, but I don't have a very good idea on how likely it is to be caught in a potentially dangerous and/or life-threatening situation.

                Thank you for your help!! I really appreciate it.


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