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What is this about a so called "California Campfire Permit"?

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  • Roleigh Martin
    I got this email to day. Am totally confused. Never heard about this before. Is this for real? You d have expected the NPS Rangers or National Forest
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 2, 2012
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      I got this email to day.  Am totally confused.  Never heard about this before.  Is this for real?  You'd have expected the NPS Rangers or National Forest Rangers to mention this, this isn't new is it?  For the last 12 years, I've gotten annually permits to hike in the High Sierras from either Inyo National Forest, Yosemite National Park, and Sequoka Kings Canyon National Parks, and never was this mentioned.  Anyone know about this?

      ---------- Forwarded message ----------
      From: Dan C.
      Date: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:36 PM
      Subject: California Campfire Permit

      Dear Group,

      Not sure whether this was mentioned but I recommend you each have a Campfire Permit.  Here is a link to a current pdf:

      http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5346076.pdf



    • Roleigh Martin
      I did find this web page: http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sequoia/passespermits/campfire_permit/campfire-index.html It says You must have a California Campfire Permit
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 2, 2012
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        I did find this web page:

        http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sequoia/passespermits/campfire_permit/campfire-index.html

        It says "You must have a California Campfire Permit to use a stove, lantern, or campfire outside a developed campground or recreation area."

        Is the campgrounds that are legal on the JMT "outside" or "within/inside" -- I wonder?  It says limited to national forests in California.  That does limit the geographical terrain therefore (bascially from Donahue Pass to King Canyon North Border).

        Sure would like to know more about this.  Totally stunned about this.


        -------------------------------------------------
        Visit Roleigh's Google Profile
        _




        On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:57 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
        I got this email to day.  Am totally confused.  Never heard about this before.  Is this for real?  You'd have expected the NPS Rangers or National Forest Rangers to mention this, this isn't new is it?  For the last 12 years, I've gotten annually permits to hike in the High Sierras from either Inyo National Forest, Yosemite National Park, and Sequoka Kings Canyon National Parks, and never was this mentioned.  Anyone know about this?

        ---------- Forwarded message ----------
        From: Dan C.
        Date: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:36 PM
        Subject: California Campfire Permit

        Dear Group,

        Not sure whether this was mentioned but I recommend you each have a Campfire Permit.  Here is a link to a current pdf:

        http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5346076.pdf




      • Lisette Walker
        Wilderness Permit Reservation Form Please follow this link for a Wilderness Permit Reservation FormFor the Ansel Adams, John Muir, Dinkey Lakes and Kaiser
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 2, 2012
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          Wilderness Permit Reservation Form

          Please follow this link for a Wilderness Permit Reservation Form

          For the Ansel Adams, John Muir, Dinkey Lakes and Kaiser trail head quotas are in effect from May 1st through November 1st. Reservations may be made by mail or in person one year in advance of the wilderness entry date.
          Mail-in reservations should be made at least three weeks in advance of the trip, and will be processed as they are received.
          Fees for reservations are:
          $5 per person (if there are 4 people in your party the total fee would be $20) and must be paid by check or money order, payable to: USDA Forest Service. A $10 change fee will be charged for any changes made to a confirmed reservation. Cash will only be accepted for in-person applications. Please follow this link for a permit reservation form (PDF format).

          WILDERNESS CAMPFIRES

          It is not necessary to obtain a separate campfire permit since your wilderness permit includes a one time campfire permit for your visit.
          http://prdp2fs.ess.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/!ut/p/c5/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjAwhwtDDw9_AI8zPyhQoYAOUjMeXDfODy-HWHg-zDrx8kb4ADOBro-3nk56bqF-RGGGSZOCoCAPi8eX8!/dl3/d3/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS9ZQnZ3LzZfMjAwMDAwMDBBODBPSEhWTjJNMDAwMDAwMDA!/?navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=fsbdev7_018119&navid=110000000000000&pnavid=null&ss=110515&position=Not%20Yet%20Determined.Html&ttype=detail&pname=Sierra%20National%20Forest-%20Recreation
           

          From: roleigh@...
          Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 20:06:35 -0400
          Subject: Re: What is this about a so called "California Campfire Permit"?
          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com

          I did find this web page:

          http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sequoia/passespermits/campfire_permit/campfire-index.html

          It says "You must have a California Campfire Permit to use a stove, lantern, or campfire outside a developed campground or recreation area."

          Is the campgrounds that are legal on the JMT "outside" or "within/inside" -- I wonder?  It says limited to national forests in California.  That does limit the geographical terrain therefore (bascially from Donahue Pass to King Canyon North Border).

          Sure would like to know more about this.  Totally stunned about this.


          -------------------------------------------------
          Visit Roleigh's Google Profile
          _




          On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:57 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
          I got this email to day.  Am totally confused.  Never heard about this before.  Is this for real?  You'd have expected the NPS Rangers or National Forest Rangers to mention this, this isn't new is it?  For the last 12 years, I've gotten annually permits to hike in the High Sierras from either Inyo National Forest, Yosemite National Park, and Sequoka Kings Canyon National Parks, and never was this mentioned.  Anyone know about this?

          ---------- Forwarded message ----------
          From: Dan C.
          Date: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:36 PM
          Subject: California Campfire Permit

          Dear Group,

          Not sure whether this was mentioned but I recommend you each have a Campfire Permit.  Here is a link to a current pdf:

          http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5346076.pdf




        • Barbara Karagosian
          Yep, we use it all the time down here in SoCal. Just do it yourself quiz online and print out the permit and sign it. Need a new one each year. Tho they can
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 2, 2012
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            Yep, we use it all the time down here in SoCal.  Just do it yourself quiz online and print out the permit and sign it.  Need a new one each year.  Tho they can be a bit slow in getting the new one up each year.  

            Barbara


            On Jul 2, 2012, at 4:57 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:

             

            I got this email to day.  Am totally confused.  Never heard about this before.  Is this for real?  You'd have expected the NPS Rangers or National Forest Rangers to mention this, this isn't new is it?  For the last 12 years, I've gotten annually permits to hike in the High Sierras from either Inyo National Forest, Yosemite National Park, and Sequoka Kings Canyon National Parks, and never was this mentioned.  Anyone know about this?

            ---------- Forwarded message ----------
            From: Dan C.
            Date: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:36 PM
            Subject: California Campfire Permit

            Dear Group,

            Not sure whether this was mentioned but I recommend you each have a Campfire Permit.  Here is a link to a current pdf:

            http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5346076.pdf



          • Barbara Karagosian
            Its very easy to do - then just fold up the piece of paper and keep it with your other pieces of paper. Barbara
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 2, 2012
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              Its very easy to do - then just fold up the piece of paper and keep it with your other pieces of paper. 

              Barbara


              On Jul 2, 2012, at 5:06 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:

               

              I did find this web page:

              http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sequoia/passespermits/campfire_permit/campfire-index.html

              It says "You must have a California Campfire Permit to use a stove, lantern, or campfire outside a developed campground or recreation area."

              Is the campgrounds that are legal on the JMT "outside" or "within/inside" -- I wonder?  It says limited to national forests in California.  That does limit the geographical terrain therefore (bascially from Donahue Pass to King Canyon North Border).

              Sure would like to know more about this.  Totally stunned about this.


              -------------------------------------------------
              Visit Roleigh's Google Profile
              _




              On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:57 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
              I got this email to day.  Am totally confused.  Never heard about this before.  Is this for real?  You'd have expected the NPS Rangers or National Forest Rangers to mention this, this isn't new is it?  For the last 12 years, I've gotten annually permits to hike in the High Sierras from either Inyo National Forest, Yosemite National Park, and Sequoka Kings Canyon National Parks, and never was this mentioned.  Anyone know about this?

              ---------- Forwarded message ----------
              From: Dan C.
              Date: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:36 PM
              Subject: California Campfire Permit

              Dear Group,

              Not sure whether this was mentioned but I recommend you each have a Campfire Permit.  Here is a link to a current pdf:

              http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5346076.pdf




            • Dan C. aka Thumper
              Roleigh, Lisette and Group, Here has been my experience; 1. Inyo NF permits do not include a Campfire Permit 2. Yosemite permits do not include a Campfire
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 2, 2012
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                Roleigh, Lisette and Group,

                Here has been my experience;

                1. Inyo NF permits do not include a Campfire Permit
                2. Yosemite permits do not include a Campfire Permit
                3. Sierra NF permits issued in the Mammoth range station did not include the Campfire Permit
                4. PCTA issued permits do not include a Campfire Permit and this is a seperately listed requirement

                So while I see what the Sierra NF web-site states our permit is being issued in a NP and not a NF. Also, there site contridicts the recent ALERT issued. I believe it better to just print out the permit, fill it out and have in your possession.

                Additionally, the Inyo NF web-site states it is a requirement. Refer to http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/!ut/p/c4/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjAwhwtDDw9_AI8zPwhQoY6BdkOyoCAPkATlA!/?ss=110504&navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=FSE_003765&navid=160130000000000&pnavid=160000000000000&position=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&ttype=main&pname=Inyo%2520National%2520Forest-%2520Other%2520Permits

                Also, refer to the Alerts and Notices for very specific references: http://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/inyo/alerts-notices/?aid=12480

                Let's just do it!

                Thumper
                Thumper
                ---- Lisette Walker <lisettewalker@...> wrote:
                >
                > Wilderness Permit Reservation Form Please follow this link for a Wilderness Permit Reservation FormFor the Ansel Adams, John Muir, Dinkey Lakes and Kaiser trail head quotas are in effect from May 1st through November 1st. Reservations may be made by mail or in person one year in advance of the wilderness entry date. Mail-in reservations should be made at least three weeks in advance of the trip, and will be processed as they are received.Fees for reservations are: $5 per person (if there are 4 people in your party the total fee would be $20) and must be paid by check or money order, payable to: USDA Forest Service. A $10 change fee will be charged for any changes made to a confirmed reservation. Cash will only be accepted for in-person applications. Please follow this link for a permit reservation form (PDF format). WILDERNESS CAMPFIRES It is not necessary to obtain a separate campfire permit since your wilderness permit includes a one time campfire permit for your visit.http://prdp2fs.ess.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/!ut/p/c5/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjAwhwtDDw9_AI8zPyhQoYAOUjMeXDfODy-HWHg-zDrx8kb4ADOBro-3nk56bqF-RGGGSZOCoCAPi8eX8!/dl3/d3/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS9ZQnZ3LzZfMjAwMDAwMDBBODBPSEhWTjJNMDAwMDAwMDA!/?navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=fsbdev7_018119&navid=110000000000000&pnavid=null&ss=110515&position=Not%20Yet%20Determined.Html&ttype=detail&pname=Sierra%20National%20Forest-%20Recreation
                > From: roleigh@...
                > Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 20:06:35 -0400
                > Subject: Re: What is this about a so called "California Campfire Permit"?
                > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > I did find this web page:
                >
                > http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sequoia/passespermits/campfire_permit/campfire-index.html
                >
                >
                >
                > It says "You must have a California Campfire Permit to use a stove, lantern, or
                > campfire outside a developed campground or recreation area."
                >
                > Is the campgrounds that are legal on the JMT "outside" or "within/inside" -- I wonder? It says limited to national forests in California. That does limit the geographical terrain therefore (bascially from Donahue Pass to King Canyon North Border).
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Sure would like to know more about this. Totally stunned about this.
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------
                >
                >
                > Visit Roleigh's Google Profile
                > _
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:57 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > I got this email to day. Am totally confused. Never heard about this before. Is this for real? You'd have expected the NPS Rangers or National Forest Rangers to mention this, this isn't new is it? For the last 12 years, I've gotten annually permits to hike in the High Sierras from either Inyo National Forest, Yosemite National Park, and Sequoka Kings Canyon National Parks, and never was this mentioned. Anyone know about this?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
                > From: Dan C.
                > Date: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:36 PM
                > Subject: California Campfire Permit
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Dear Group,
                >
                >
                >
                > Not sure whether this was mentioned but I recommend you each have a Campfire Permit. Here is a link to a current pdf:
                >
                >
                >
                > http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5346076.pdf
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • John Ladd
                Fire permits are said -- by the California Dept of Forestry and Fire Protection -- to be required anywhere outdoors in California -- other than in a National
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 2, 2012
                Fire permits are said -- by the California Dept of Forestry and Fire Protection -- to be required anywhere outdoors in California -- other than in a National Park or on land you own yourself or in a privately-owned campground -- where you want to light a campfire or use any form of camp stove (even things like JetBoils or Esbits).  The permit form is a joint creation of the Forest Service, BLM and Cal Fire and are designed to meet the requirements of all three.

                Read literally, they are even required for a barbeque in the back yard of a rental home, though of course no one does that.  

                Enforcement is minimal at best. Maybe once or twice in the last 10 years, I have had rangers ask me if I have one, though they have never asked me to show it.  I tend to try to get one in January, because it makes me feel that a new year has started.  They are good for the calender year.

                You can get them in any National Forest office, BLM office, or a CDF (Calif Dept of Forestry) facility.  Firehouses sometimes have a supply of the permits. While they are not required in the National Parks, the NP offices (ones that issue wilderness permits) will usually issue one on request. There's no charge.

                As others have noted, a few of the National Forests have even made them available for self-issue online.

                I attach one from Los Padre NF that could be printed and signed by you and is effective.  But why not get a more legit one - it is not hard. You might be asked some questions, but they are usually the ones you will see printed on the permit, and if you answer wrong, they just tell you the answer and then issue the permit.

                Or go here


                and click on "Campfire permit"

                For more info see


                John Curran Ladd
                1616 Castro Street
                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                415-648-9279


                On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                 

                I got this email to day.  Am totally confused.  Never heard about this before.  Is this for real?  You'd have expected the NPS Rangers or National Forest Rangers to mention this, this isn't new is it?  For the last 12 years, I've gotten annually permits to hike in the High Sierras from either Inyo National Forest, Yosemite National Park, and Sequoka Kings Canyon National Parks, and never was this mentioned.  Anyone know about this?

                ---------- Forwarded message ----------
                From: Dan C.
                Date: Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:36 PM
                Subject: California Campfire Permit

                Dear Group,

                Not sure whether this was mentioned but I recommend you each have a Campfire Permit.  Here is a link to a current pdf:

                http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5346076.pdf




              • John Ladd
                Note - the following applies ONLY to permits issued by Sierra National Forest (e.g., for initial entries at Vermilion or Muir Trail Ranch). It is NOT
                Message 8 of 8 , Jul 2, 2012
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                  Note - the following applies ONLY to permits issued by Sierra National Forest (e.g., for initial entries at Vermilion or Muir Trail Ranch). It is NOT applicable to entry permits from other jurisdictions..

                  I'm not trying to convince anyone that they will get in any deep trouble for lack of a California Campfire Permit, but for most entry points you are supposed to get one in order to use cook stoves between Donahue Pass and Piute Pass Trail.  Since they are not hard to get, you might as well get one.

                  I have the impression the National Forests treat these as kind of a joke but by taking them so un-seriously, they tend to create confusion about them.

                  John Curran Ladd
                  1616 Castro Street
                  San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                  415-648-9279


                  On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Lisette Walker <lisettewalker@...> wrote:
                   

                  Wilderness Permit Reservation Form

                  Please follow this link for a Wilderness Permit Reservation Form

                  ...
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