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Re: [John Muir Trail] Average time to travel from MTR to WP?

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  • Roleigh Martin
    I don t know anyone who could get 8 days of food in a BV500. a BV700 yes. I recommend an Expedtion, it s only 5 oz more weight, makes a better camp chair, and
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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      I don't know anyone who could get 8 days of food in a BV500.  a BV700 yes.  I recommend an Expedtion, it's only 5 oz more weight, makes a better camp chair, and can hold more than just food (you need to hold not just food but all smelly stuff plus trash).  Much lighter than a Bearvault.

      On Monday, June 4, 2012, John Ladd wrote:
       

      On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Paul <ppatmag@...> wrote:

       ...I had been concerned about being able to carry my last resupply from MTR to WP, so I was looking at renting the Bearikade expedition. I am estimating 9 days for me to do that leg of the trail. I would say I am slightly above average in hiking speed.... 

      So, I am now considering going with either the BV500 or the Bearikade weekender. From what I have also read, no bear cans are required for the first few days out of MTR. Is this true? ... Is bear bagging required past MTR? How about an ursack?

       
      The backcountry rangers are likely to interpret the rules to say that an Ursack is NOT legal bear protection in the bearcan-recommended (but not required) area between MTR and Pinchot unless it is properly counterlanance hung.  (There is a contrary argument, but you might end up telling it to a federal magistrate).

      It is the hanging, not the Ursack, that makes it legal.  That said, I never hang except where an ursack adds one more layer of protection.

      We have had some other threads about the difficulties involved in finding appropriate branches for counterbalance hanging.

      Paste this into Google for these threads

      inurl:johnmuirtrail counterbalance

      I think most people would find it very hard to fit much more than 5 days of food into a weekender.  If you want to try, you need to avoid high-volume foods like jerky, freeze-dried, oatmeal, GORP and go for low-volume foods like oils, peanut butter, whole milk powder, cooussoous, cornmeal, cream of wheat, etc.

      John Curran Ladd
      1616 Castro Street
      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
      415-648-9279




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    • cjoslyn99
      I think you mean BV-450 and BV-500, respectively. I don t think there is a BV-700. The BV-500 has 700 cu in capacity, though. I m practicing stuffing 9 days
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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        I think you mean BV-450 and BV-500, respectively.

        I don't think there is a BV-700. The BV-500 has 700 cu in capacity,
        though.

        I'm practicing stuffing 9 days into a BV-500 to cover me from MTR to WP.
        So far have not succeeded, but also have not repackaged all my
        BackpackerPantry stuff (want to wait until I'm ready to ship to MTR
        before unsealing so it doesn't go stale).

        In any event, I know it will be tight fit and probably need to rely on
        carrying some food outside for that first day out of MTR and possibly
        hanging that first night.

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I don't know anyone who could get 8 days of food in a BV500. a BV700
        yes.
        > I recommend an Expedtion, it's only 5 oz more weight, makes a better
        camp
        > chair, and can hold more than just food (you need to hold not just
        food but
        > all smelly stuff plus trash). Much lighter than a Bearvault.
        >
      • charliepolecat
        I ve taken my Mountain House packets and flattened them making them half as thick and more pliable. I m using a BV-500, lots of room after stuffing 6 days
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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          I've taken my Mountain House packets and flattened them making them half as thick and more pliable. I'm using a BV-500, lots of room after stuffing 6 days worth of food in it.
        • robert shattuck
          I would say I am slightly above average in hiking speed.... I would say . . . If you re above average in hiking speed, then let s just say your fit and
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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            "I would say I am slightly above average in hiking speed.... " 

            I would say . . . If you're "above average" in hiking speed, then let's just say your fit and then let's just say, you'll have no problems carrying the few extra ounces that a larger canister might weigh. Stop debating whether to go with the weekender, which will just end up being a lot of work to jam 8-10 days worth of food in and go with whatever does it for you. 

            And just because hanging is allowed doesn't mean you should or have to or . . . . Again, my very own personal opinion is that I'd rather carry  the few extra ounces of a canister which more than makes up for the time and frustration of having to either hang a bag, or secure an Ursack to a tree–––me, I'm still going to be fretting all night that they'll get my Ursack full of everything, rather than maybe a day or so worth of food.

            I have been using a Garcia for years now and usually am able to get about eight solid days of food in there. Heading out of MTR that usually leaves me with a day or so of food in a sack, along with other smelly items––all of which ends up back in the can within two nights and from there on out, things just get lighter and roomier as the days progress. Not to mention you are going to be fitter, faster and just not really thinking about that canister weight, too much. 

            If I could afford a BEARIKADE EXPEDITION, I'd have no problem accommodating it's size or negligible weight, in trade for just not having to think about it all (the entire mess/stress of what am I going to do with this stuff?) . . . but that's just me. 

            And I'd plan for nine or maybe even eight days, but I'd pack for ten, just to be safe and if I get to Guitar lake and have more than enough food to summit and then get down, it just becomes a feast before the summit––or if I am spending the night up top––a long dinner into the cold starry night. 

            Bottom line––ursack or hang and you end up thinking about it all the time ( I would and have) and dealing with it . . . Canister, lock it, cradle it somewhere, forget about it . . . relax . . . 


            Bob
            http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480



            .

          • Ron Cordell
            How did you flatten them, exactly? I was planning to repackage them and carry just one of the original packages for reconstitution, but I find myself curious
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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              How did you flatten them, exactly? I was planning to repackage them and carry just one of the original packages for reconstitution, but I find myself curious about the flattening thing...

              -ronc

              On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:14 AM, charliepolecat <kennethjessett@...> wrote:
               

              I've taken my Mountain House packets and flattened them making them half as thick and more pliable. I'm using a BV-500, lots of room after stuffing 6 days worth of food in it.


            • Jeremy foltz
              I take a hammer to my Mountain House bags while they are still in the foil. Then I put them in baggies not Ziplock so that they can be stuffed and
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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                I take a hammer to my Mountain House bags while they are still  in the foil.  Then I put them in baggies not Ziplock so that they can be stuffed and manipulated more easily.   

                On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Ron Cordell <ron.cordell@...> wrote:
                 

                How did you flatten them, exactly? I was planning to repackage them and carry just one of the original packages for reconstitution, but I find myself curious about the flattening thing...


                -ronc

                On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:14 AM, charliepolecat <kennethjessett@...> wrote:
                 

                I've taken my Mountain House packets and flattened them making them half as thick and more pliable. I'm using a BV-500, lots of room after stuffing 6 days worth of food in it.



              • Herb
                I poke a pin hole in the package so the contents can be flattened and folded into the desired shape. Cover the hole with duct tape and you can still use the
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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                  I poke a pin hole in the package so the contents can be flattened and folded into the desired shape. Cover the hole with duct tape and you can still use the original package for cooking.

                  Herb

                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Ron Cordell <ron.cordell@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > How did you flatten them, exactly? I was planning to repackage them and
                  > carry just one of the original packages for reconstitution, but I find
                  > myself curious about the flattening thing...
                  >
                  > -ronc
                • LEBRUN
                  I repackage into a Quart-size zip lock bag (freezer-grade). Bruce
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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                    I repackage into a Quart-size zip lock bag (freezer-grade).

                    Bruce


                    On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Herb <hstroh@...> wrote:
                     

                    I poke a pin hole in the package so the contents can be flattened and folded into the desired shape. Cover the hole with duct tape and you can still use the original package for cooking.

                    Herb

                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Ron Cordell <ron.cordell@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > How did you flatten them, exactly? I was planning to repackage them and
                    > carry just one of the original packages for reconstitution, but I find
                    > myself curious about the flattening thing...
                    >
                    > -ronc


                  • robert shattuck
                    I poke a pin hole This was the first year I went with almost exclusively freeze-dried meals for dinner. As usual, I waited until I picked up the resupply to
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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                      "I poke a pin hole" 

                      This was the first year I went with almost exclusively freeze-dried meals for dinner. As usual, I waited until I picked up the resupply to do do my package trimming and poking. I stripped off the top of the package/pouch, rolled it down, then put a hole in it to get out more air. No need to worry about freshness and it's amazing how much more space you have, when you just get rid of the top tab on those meals. 

                      If I was really gung-ho and wanted to get a few more in there, I might have replaced them into zip-loc bags, but who needs more junk to throw out. 


                      BOB
                      http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                    • charliepolecat
                      Ron, I crush them by hand whilst they are in the original package, I do not re-package them. If you cannot exert enough force by using just your hands you can
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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                        Ron, I crush them by hand whilst they are in the original package, I do not re-package them. If you cannot exert enough force by using just your hands you can use a rubber hammer - or regular hammer with a towel or similar to protect the packaging. What you are crushing mostly is the pasta or rice. There is no need to evacuate the air with this system.

                        By the way, although most of the recipes are excellent, by far the best taste is the sweet and sour pork, Yummy!

                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Ron Cordell <ron.cordell@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > How did you flatten them, exactly? I was planning to repackage them and
                        > carry just one of the original packages for reconstitution, but I find
                        > myself curious about the flattening thing...
                        >
                        > -ronc
                        >
                        > On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:14 AM, charliepolecat <
                        > kennethjessett@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > **
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I've taken my Mountain House packets and flattened them making them half
                        > > as thick and more pliable. I'm using a BV-500, lots of room after stuffing
                        > > 6 days worth of food in it.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Don Amundson
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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                          Everyone has a variation on this theme. I haven't used Mountain House for a long time but package all my meals in a regular zip lock type bag (not freezer type since they weigh twice as much). I put a pin whole at the top to help evacuate space consuming air.  I've never found the need to cover the whole since it's at the top and I've never have had to put so much water in the bag for re-hydration that it comes out the hole.

                          After your trip Ron you'll have locked down your method.  If you discover something new let us know.
                            I do always recommend that you try whatever system you're going to use out in field to see how it works. There's nothing worse than thinking the experts in this group have the right answers.  They all have answers--you just have to determine what's right for you.


                          I take a hammer to my Mountain House bags while they are still  in the foil.  Then I put them in baggies not Ziplock so that they can be stuffed and manipulated more easily.   
                          -------------------------------------------------
                          I repackage into a Quart-size zip lock bag (freezer-grade).
                          -------------------------------------------------
                           
                          I poke a pin hole in the package so the contents can be flattened and folded into the desired shape. Cover the hole with duct tape and you can still use the original package for cooking.
                          -------------------------------------------------
                          I stripped off the top of the package/pouch, rolled it down, then put a hole in it to get out more air. No need to worry about freshness and it's amazing how much more space you have, when you just get rid of the top tab on those meals.
                          -------------------------------------------------

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Ron Cordell <ron.cordell@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > How did you flatten them, exactly? I was planning to repackage them and
                          > carry just one of the original packages for reconstitution, but I find
                          > myself curious about the flattening thing...
                          >
                          > -ronc


                        • Ron Cordell
                          Actually, I m a Chili Mac with Beef fan, so I got a #10 can for that with plans to repackage into ziplocks. I was going to repackage everything, actually, but
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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                            Actually, I'm a Chili Mac with Beef fan, so I got a #10 can for that with plans to repackage into ziplocks. I was going to repackage everything, actually, but wanted to wait to experiment until I got closer to the date for sending out resupply packages so as to not let things get too stale...
                          • Don Amundson
                            Everyone has a variation on this theme. I haven t used Mountain House for a long time but package all my meals in a regular zip lock type bag (not freezer type
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 4, 2012
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                              Everyone has a variation on this theme. I haven't used Mountain House for a long time but package all my meals in a regular zip lock type bag (not freezer type since they weigh twice as much). I put a pin whole at the top to help evacuate space consuming air.  I've never found the need to cover the whole since it's at the top and I've never have had to put so much water in the bag for re-hydration that it comes out the hole.

                              After your trip Ron you'll have locked down your method.  If you discover something new let us know.
                                I do always recommend that you try whatever system you're going to use out in field to see how it works. There's nothing worse than thinking the experts in this group have the right answers.  They all have answers--you just have to determine what's right for you.

                              In 2009 I survived on mostly MH Chili Mac and Lasagna with meat sauce.  I went with the #10 cans also because they bring the cost down and your not at the mercy of what MH considers the size of a meal.  I'm not sure stale is an operative word when talking about commercial freeze dried meals.  I've had freeze dried stuff sitting around in a plastic bag for a year (with the pin hole at the top) and it seems to taste the same as when "fresh" out of the can.  Your taste buds will vary. 


                              I take a hammer to my Mountain House bags while they are still  in the foil.  Then I put them in baggies not Ziplock so that they can be stuffed and manipulated more easily.   
                              -------------------------------------------------
                              I repackage into a Quart-size zip lock bag (freezer-grade).
                              -------------------------------------------------
                              I poke a pin hole in the package so the contents can be flattened and folded into the desired shape. Cover the hole with duct tape and you can still use the original package for cooking.
                              -------------------------------------------------
                              I stripped off the top of the package/pouch, rolled it down, then put a hole in it to get out more air. No need to worry about freshness and it's amazing how much more space you have, when you just get rid of the top tab on those meals.
                              -------------------------------------------------

                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Ron Cordell <ron.cordell@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > How did you flatten them, exactly? I was planning to repackage them and
                              > carry just one of the original packages for reconstitution, but I find
                              > myself curious about the flattening thing...
                              >
                              > -ronc


                              Actually, I'm a Chili Mac with Beef fan, so I got a #10 can for that with plans to repackage into ziplocks. I was going to repackage everything, actually, but wanted to wait to experiment until I got closer to the date for sending out resupply packages so as to not let things get too stale...



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