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re: stove choices

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  • K Sorbello
    Hubby and I have a Jet Boil but carried our pocket rocket for the JMT thru. Not only to shave ounces, but to save space - not only do ounces add up but cubic
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 30, 2012
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      Hubby and I have a Jet Boil but carried our pocket rocket for the JMT thru. Not only to shave ounces, but to save space - not only do ounces add up but cubic inches do, too, especially since pack size = weight. The pocket rocket continued - as always - to be sufficient to cook for two people. And we used much less fuel than our estimates predicted. "Just sayin' "  Problem is that he always did the cooking, so now I don't know how to light it! He showed me, but I didn't pay attention, because I would always have him, right?  "You never know what a day may bring forth."


      Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:17:54 +0000
      From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [John Muir Trail] Digest Number 2092

      John Muir Trail - A resource for JMT hikers

      Messages In This Digest (12 Messages)

      Messages

      1a.

      Re: Which stove to bring; canister versus liquid fuel

      Posted by: "John Ladd" johnladd@...   johncurranladd

      Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:02 am (PDT)



      I abandoned my liquid-fuel stove (Whisperlite) reluctantly to try a gas
      stove (JetBoil) but would NEVER go back. The canister stoves are admirably
      simple, limiting the possibilities of failure. NB: I did have one flame up
      once, due to a loose fitting on the JetBoil and now make sure everything is
      tight before attaching the canister. We don't have particularly cold
      winters in the Sierra, and it works here year round. It is a very versatile
      stove, e.g., if you need to turn it off, you can safely relight it without
      needing to wait to cool off; you can simmer with it; turn bacon into
      baconbits (remove the insulating sleeve first). Do not trust the piezo.
      Carry matches or a lighter in case the piezo cracks.

      I find alternative fuel stoves frustrating. They are slow and subject to
      various problems (e.g., slow, hard to turn off and relight) and part of the
      weight savings on the stove is lost because the fuel itself has way less
      heat capacity (BTUs) per ounce. Strongly recommend the JetBoil. Even
      BackpackingLight had quite positive reviews of the JetBoil.

      If I did group hiking, I'd consider the MSR Reactor, which is I think Ned's
      favorite stove. It really heats a lot of water fast (or melts a lot of
      snow fast)

      John Curran Ladd
      1616 Castro Street
      San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
      415-648-9279
      1b.

      Re: Which stove to bring; canister versus liquid fuel

      Posted by: "Ewa Bialkowski" ewa.bialkowski@...   ewaskb

      Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:36 am (PDT)



      I've been using JetBoil for years. When I bought my first one, there was
      only one model, which looks a lot like Flash. It worked well for many years
      in all kinds of conditions though I never had a chance to test it above 10k
      elevation.
      Last year I invested in Jetboil Ti. The piezo thing was not working at all
      so I returned it. The second one also had piezo issues especially at
      elevation. Still I liked it till a heated piece of the coil or whatever the
      folded conducting element could be called broke off and shot out at my hand
      leaving a nasty burn. Needless to say it went back to REI.

      I am seriously considering investing in MSR Reactor though the size of it
      is for me a big deterrent.

      Ewa
      1c.

      Re: Which stove to bring; canister versus liquid fuel

      Posted by: "eric" samhandwich22@...   samhandwich22

      Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:58 am (PDT)



      Although the jetboil I own is fuel efficient and simple, I did have issues with fuel pressure when at near freezing temperatures. In good conditions, the jetboil boils 2 cups of water in about 90 seconds... but in Bishop last year, it took several minutes due to the cold and weakened flame. I dont remember the exact temperature but if you have ever been out to the desert on an early spring night, then you probably know that it gets pretty damn cold out there.

      I have not tested the reactor in the cold yet but since they use the same fuel canisters I am worried I will have a similar issue. The Reactor is certainly bulky but not a bad compromise for how fast it boils water for two people. I dont think I would ever go solo with it.

      Looks like the canister stoves are winning the debate! I suppose we could also each take a pocket rocket since we each own one and use small personal pots and cook separately

      --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, Ewa Bialkowski <ewa.bialkowski@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > I've been using JetBoil for years. When I bought my first one, there was
      > only one model, which looks a lot like Flash. It worked well for many years
      > in all kinds of conditions though I never had a chance to test it above 10k
      > elevation.
      > Last year I invested in Jetboil Ti. The piezo thing was not working at all
      > so I returned it. The second one also had piezo issues especially at
      > elevation. Still I liked it till a heated piece of the coil or whatever the
      > folded conducting element could be called broke off and shot out at my hand
      > leaving a nasty burn. Needless to say it went back to REI.
      >
      > I am seriously considering investing in MSR Reactor though the size of it
      > is for me a big deterrent.
      >
      > Ewa
      >

      1d.

      Re: Which stove to bring; canister versus liquid fuel

      Posted by: "Barbara Karagosian" barbara@...   bdkaragosian

      Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:30 am (PDT)



      Does sleeping with it help? ;-)

      Barbara

      On Mar 29, 2012, at 9:58 AM, "eric" <samhandwich22@ gmail.com> wrote:

      > Although the jetboil I own is fuel efficient and simple, I did have issues with fuel pressure when at near freezing temperatures. In good conditions, the jetboil boils 2 cups of water in about 90 seconds... but in Bishop last year, it took several minutes due to the cold and weakened flame. I dont remember the exact temperature but if you have ever been out to the desert on an early spring night, then you probably know that it gets pretty damn cold out there.
      >
      > I have not tested the reactor in the cold yet but since they use the same fuel canisters I am worried I will have a similar issue. The Reactor is certainly bulky but not a bad compromise for how fast it boils water for two people. I dont think I would ever go solo with it.
      >
      > Looks like the canister stoves are winning the debate! I suppose we could also each take a pocket rocket since we each own one and use small personal pots and cook separately
      >
      > --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, Ewa Bialkowski <ewa.bialkowski@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I've been using JetBoil for years. When I bought my first one, there was
      > > only one model, which looks a lot like Flash. It worked well for many years
      > > in all kinds of conditions though I never had a chance to test it above 10k
      > > elevation.
      > > Last year I invested in Jetboil Ti. The piezo thing was not working at all
      > > so I returned it. The second one also had piezo issues especially at
      > > elevation. Still I liked it till a heated piece of the coil or whatever the
      > > folded conducting element could be called broke off and shot out at my hand
      > > leaving a nasty burn. Needless to say it went back to REI.
      > >
      > > I am seriously considering investing in MSR Reactor though the size of it
      > > is for me a big deterrent.
      > >
      > > Ewa
      > >
      >
      >
      1e.

      Re: Which stove to bring; canister versus liquid fuel

      Posted by: "speedcenter2001" pburke@...   speedcenter2001

      Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:01 pm (PDT)





      --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
      <mailto:johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com> , "eric" <samhandwich22@ ...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Although the jetboil I own is fuel efficient and simple, I did have
      issues with fuel pressure when at near freezing temperatures.

      you want to make sure you get fuel that has "isobutane" in it, as butane
      will not evaporate enough in colder temps. Basically anything from
      Jetboil, MSR, SnowPeak is fuel that will work well below freezing.

      Everything you ever wanted to know about stoves here

      http://adventuresin stoving.blogspot .com/
      <http://adventuresin stoving.blogspot .com/>

      and about cold/high altitude performance of canisters in particular see
      this post

      http://adventuresin stoving.blogspot .com/2012/ 03/canisters- cold-and- altit\
      ude-in-nutshell. html

      <http://adventuresin stoving.blogspot .com/2012/ 03/canisters- cold-and- alti\
      tude-in-nutshell. html
      >

      what brands work:

      http://adventuresin stoving.blogspot .com/2011/ 11/whats- best-brand- of-gas-\
      for-cold.html

      <http://adventuresin stoving.blogspot .com/2011/ 11/whats- best-brand- of-gas\
      -for-cold.html
      >

      note that the Muir Ranch usually has a lot of "Primus" brand canisters -
      you do not want those if you have choice.

      I use caninster stoves in winter and they work just fine if you use the
      right model for the conditions and burn the right fuel:
      [jetboil helios below whitney at -10 Celsius]

      1f.

      Re: Which stove to bring; canister versus liquid fuel

      Posted by: "Sierracanon" dlink_95670@...   dlink_95670

      Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:15 am (PDT)



      http://pe.usps. com/text/ pub52/pub52c3_ 017.htm#ep898824

      Scroll down to 342.22 for clarification of which things constitute "mailable gases."

      --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Mosack" <mosack@...> wrote:
      >
      > You can not mail filled fuel canisters. Even attempting to mail empty fuel bottles can be tricky if there is any residue of fuel still inside that might draw the interest of the inspectors. You need to pick up the fuel/canisters locally.
      > Mike
      >
      > From: plumeandcashew
      > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:08 AM
      > To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
      > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Which stove to bring; canister versus liquid fuel
      >
      >
      > I have another question. With canisters do you have to buy them at resupplies or is that something you can mail to yourself along with food?
      >
      > --- In mailto:johnmuirtrai l%40yahoogroups. com, "speedcenter2001" <pburke@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I've never used anything other than canister stoves on the JMT. No mess, fuel is readily available for most types, and they are getting lighter and lighter.
      > >
      > > Others have carried liquid fuel burners, wood stoves, esbit stoves, and some ultra light fanatics ate nothing but dextrose and clif bars without any stove - it all works. Whatever you prefer should work out there.
      > >
      >

      1g.

      Re: Which stove to bring; canister versus liquid fuel

      Posted by: "Mike Mosack" mosack@...   scoutmaster1006

      Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:20 am (PDT)



      I stand corrected. It has always been my understanding that we could not mail fuel. I appreciate the info.
      Mike

      From: Sierracanon
      Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:45 AM
      To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Which stove to bring; canister versus liquid fuel

      http://pe.usps. com/text/ pub52/pub52c3_ 017.htm#ep898824

      Scroll down to 342.22 for clarification of which things constitute "mailable gases."

      --- In mailto:johnmuirtrai l%40yahoogroups. com, "Mike Mosack" <mosack@...> wrote:
      >
      > You can not mail filled fuel canisters. Even attempting to mail empty fuel bottles can be tricky if there is any residue of fuel still inside that might draw the interest of the inspectors. You need to pick up the fuel/canisters locally.
      > Mike
      >
      > From: plumeandcashew
      > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:08 AM
      > To: mailto:johnmuirtrai l%40yahoogroups. com
      > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Which stove to bring; canister versus liquid fuel
      >
      >
      > I have another question. With canisters do you have to buy them at resupplies or is that something you can mail to yourself along with food?
      >
      > --- In mailto:johnmuirtrai l%40yahoogroups. com, "speedcenter2001" <pburke@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I've never used anything other than canister stoves on the JMT. No mess, fuel is readily available for most types, and they are getting lighter and lighter.
      > >
      > > Others have carried liquid fuel burners, wood stoves, esbit stoves, and some ultra light fanatics ate nothing but dextrose and clif bars without any stove - it all works. Whatever you prefer should work out there.
      > >
      >

      2a.

      Re: Entering JMT from Vermillion Valley Resort?

      Posted by: "krishna9012" krishna9012@...   krishna9012

      Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:21 am (PDT)



      Roleigh:
      Yes, I was the only one besides Jim who drove his truck. I remember paying him $90/- for the trip which looked reasonable considering the long distance and time it took. He said its usually a whole day round trip for him.
      Krishna

      --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@... > wrote:
      >
      > Krishna,
      >
      > Were you the only one in the shuttle besides the driver? At their web
      > site, they talk about the cost if minimally 2 people are shuttled. I was
      > curious what the cost was for one person. Can you give us the cost you
      > paid? Thanks!
      >
      > Roleigh
      > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -
      > Visit Roleigh's Google
      > Profile<https://profiles. google.com/ 1044401664401697 00478/about>
      > _
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:44 PM, krishna9012 <krishna9012@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > Regarding transportation from Fresno airport to VVR, you can contact Jim
      > > Clement the owner of VVR (very nice gentleman) at 559 259 4000 as he runs
      > > a shuttle van to pick up customers on certain days and also arranges
      > > special pick ups if needed. They open around mid May. Last year he made a
      > > special run for me from VVR to Fresno airport when I got sick on my JMT
      > > hike and detoured to VVR and left for LA. FYI
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, "krishna9012" <krishna9012@ >
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Eric, I am planning on doing the same after July 12th as I finished the
      > > JMT from TM to VVR and Onion V to Whitney last year. So doing the VVT to OV
      > > section (around 90 miles) this July. You can call Bass Lake ranger district
      > > at 559-877-2218 ext 0 for more information. You can get the blank form
      > > from http://www.fs. usda.gov/ Internet/ FSE_DOCUMENTS/ fsbdev7_017679. pdf
      > > > Krishna
      > > >
      > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, Ed Rodriguez <ed_rodriguez52@ >
      > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hey Eric, first you need to find out how many miles you want to walk
      > > each day, second you might want to think about starting at MTR instead of
      > > VVR. Now the BIG problem is how long its going to take you to reach
      > > Whitney. In people planing there is always a give and take in planing the
      > > JMT for my part the both of you have to set down and find out what work
      > > best for you and how long the both of you can be on the trail keeping in
      > > mind what kind of food you want to bring with you and more important is
      > > how long fresh food will keep. Good LuckÂ
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > > > > From: eric <samhandwich22@ >
      > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
      > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:05 PM
      > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Entering JMT from Vermillion Valley Resort?
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Â
      > > > > Is it feasible (transportation wise) and legal (permit wise) to enter
      > > the JMT from vermilliion valley resort and only hike the southern half of
      > > the trail? Do people ever do this?
      > > > >
      > > > > My friend and I are reconsidering doing the full JMT for several
      > > reasons, some are as follows: time constraints, proneness to certain
      > > athletic injuries (despite being in excellent shape and being experienced
      > > hikers), unwilling to give up certain food items for such a long period of
      > > time.
      > > > >
      > > > > Her and I have very stingy appetites and even with a repetoire of
      > > great backpacking meals, we believe we would not be happy having to live
      > > off of dry instant rations for so long. We are more like the type who eat a
      > > lot of fresh fruits and vegetables and dont like to eat so much dense grain
      > > and protein (ya know, the type of food that a long distance trail
      > > requires). By cutting in for the second half of the JMT, we would be able
      > > to take our time while hiking and not have to utilize any resupply points.
      > > We would be able to pack out a lot more fresh fruit and vegetables despite
      > > their heavy weight, and can be more lenient with meal planning. It seems
      > > more relaxed to do it this way despite not getting to see the entire trail;
      > > at least we would get the second half which is said to be better. I have
      > > never done JMT before so any advice would be appreciated.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >

      2b.

      Re: Entering JMT from Vermillion Valley Resort?

      Posted by: "cjoslyn99" cjoslyn99@...   cjoslyn99

      Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:15 pm (PDT)




      Not sure where you're starting from or how many days you've planned to
      do the entire trail (211 mi / 12 mpd = 18 days?), but you would be hard
      pressed to "resupply" just once. 9 days of food is a lot to fit in a
      bear can.

      If what you mean is mailing a bucket somewhere just once, but doing
      mini-resupplies as you pass Tuolumne Meadows, Reds Meadows and VVR to
      buy food / forage hiker boxes and eating in their restaurants makes
      perfect sense (and you can get fresh fruit/veggies) . W/ these sorts of
      mini-resupplies, you can basically get away with only having to carry
      2-3 days food at any one point in time from Happy Isles all the way to
      MTR. From there on out, you need to pack it in your can or make
      arrangements for on-trail resupply w/ a packer or very good friend.

      Personally, I would "resupply" at MTR b/c it's further down the trail
      from VVR (but more expensive).

      --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, "eric" <samhandwich22@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > thanks for the info everyone! At this point we are still on to do the
      entire trail, resupplying only one time at either the vermillion valley
      resort or the muir trail ranch. I guess we are just going to have to
      suck it up and rely on a heck of a lot of dehydrated fruit & veggies
      packed into our meals. We are supposed to be challenging ourselves
      anyway, right? Time constraints are there, but we will make it work if
      it can. Right now our maximum mileage on any one day is 14, but most
      days average at about 12.
      >
      > --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, "eric" samhandwich22@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Is it feasible (transportation wise) and legal (permit wise) to
      enter the JMT from vermilliion valley resort and only hike the southern
      half of the trail? Do people ever do this?
      > >
      > > My friend and I are reconsidering doing the full JMT for several
      reasons, some are as follows: time constraints, proneness to certain
      athletic injuries (despite being in excellent shape and being
      experienced hikers), unwilling to give up certain food items for such a
      long period of time.
      > >
      > > Her and I have very stingy appetites and even with a repetoire of
      great backpacking meals, we believe we would not be happy having to live
      off of dry instant rations for so long. We are more like the type who
      eat a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables and dont like to eat so much
      dense grain and protein (ya know, the type of food that a long distance
      trail requires). By cutting in for the second half of the JMT, we would
      be able to take our time while hiking and not have to utilize any
      resupply points. We would be able to pack out a lot more fresh fruit and
      vegetables despite their heavy weight, and can be more lenient with meal
      planning. It seems more relaxed to do it this way despite not getting to
      see the entire trail; at least we would get the second half which is
      said to be better. I have never done JMT before so any advice would be
      appreciated.
      > >
      >

      3a.

      Re: GPS

      Posted by: "bodnar1234" paulbodnar@...   bodnar1234

      Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:00 am (PDT)



      If you have an iPhone you might want to check out Guthooksguides. com

      You can get an iPhone app covering the Sierra area for less than $5. And you will save not only money but weight by converting your iPhone to a functioning GPS with mapping and hiking guide.

      I spent over $250 on a Garmin GPS and $100 on mapping software and I think the app is much better. But I'm bias I helped write the app :)

      Paul

      > I'm thinking of buying a Garmin Oregon 450t to use in the Sierras and on the
      > JMT. I was also considering The 24K West Garmin software to install in the
      > unit but am concerned with some of the negative reviews at REI. Does anyone
      > have experience with these items that could enlighten me?
      >
      > Thanks, Jack Pence
      >

      3b.

      Re: GPS

      Posted by: "cjoslyn99" cjoslyn99@...   cjoslyn99

      Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:25 pm (PDT)




      I have iPhone and bought the JMT map set iPhone app. It was decent
      enough for quick reference when I did not want to whip out paper maps.
      The GPS however is not really that useful in the wilderness out of cell
      range. While the GPS does function, iPhone uses aGPS and when it isn't
      w/in range of cell tower to assist w/ triangulation, it takes a long
      long time to find your position.

      I have Garmin and 24K map set as well. I bring that along w / iPhone.

      --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, "bodnar1234" <paulbodnar@ ...>
      wrote:
      >
      > If you have an iPhone you might want to check out Guthooksguides. com
      >
      > You can get an iPhone app covering the Sierra area for less than $5.
      And you will save not only money but weight by converting your iPhone to
      a functioning GPS with mapping and hiking guide.
      >
      > I spent over $250 on a Garmin GPS and $100 on mapping software and I
      think the app is much better. But I'm bias I helped write the app :)
      >
      > Paul
      >
      > > I'm thinking of buying a Garmin Oregon 450t to use in the Sierras
      and on the
      > > JMT. I was also considering The 24K West Garmin software to install
      in the
      > > unit but am concerned with some of the negative reviews at REI. Does
      anyone
      > > have experience with these items that could enlighten me?
      > >
      > > Thanks, Jack Pence
      > >
      >

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