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Permethrin

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  • John Ladd
    Christie just posted this, which probably deserves it s own thread: And, just to mix up topics a bit, I d suggest not using Permethrin on your clothing. I,
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 16, 2012
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      Christie just posted this, which probably deserves it's own thread:

      And, just to mix up topics a bit, I'd suggest not using Permethrin on your clothing. I, unfortunately, spayed my shorts/pants with the stuff last year hoping to protect myself against mozzies but the ranger at Yosemite asked me not to get them in the water because they suspected this is one possible cause of a decline in frogs in some of the waterways.

      Seems to me to be a very  good point, though I find pemethrin too useful to avoid it entirely.  But I now won't put it on anything I would wear into a lake and will try to minimize it on long pants (which tend to get wet in stream-crossings).  I do know from other sources that Pemethrin is water-soluble so the ranger's point sounds valid.

      If you don't know about permethrin (a clothing treatment that repels mosquitoes) you might check it out.  Main brand is Sawyer's.  Google search would be

      site:groups.yahoo.com inurl:johnmuirtrail permethrin

      247 hits

      John Curran Ladd
      1616 Castro Street
      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
      415-648-9279
    • JamesB
      If permethrin were really very soluble in water, how do you reconcile that with being able to use it through dozens of soap and water launderings? I mean, face
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 16, 2012
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        If permethrin were really very soluble in water, how do you reconcile that with being able to use it through dozens of soap and water launderings? I mean, face it, a quick dip in cold water with no soap isn't going to wash out a lot of any substance that can stand up well to a dozen or two washing machine trips (20 minutes in often warm water with probably over 5 minutes in warm soapy water each washing.

        Yes, permethrin is deadly to some fish, but it bonds pretty well to fabric which is the reason why it can be laundered many times and still act as an insecticide. bief dunking in cold pure water isn't going to get very much of it out, and it dilutes to a great extent in flowing streams and lakes.

        Rangers may be nearly omniscient beings, but sometimes they can apply information in a wrong way,[i have seen that happen even here for goodness sake :-)] and the general decline of amphibians still has the main scientific field in incomplete understanding of what is going on.

        Don't forget that you should drink eight eight ounces of water every day in order to digest your food, and don't forget that you only use 10% of your brain.... just two of many "official truths of the past" that are no longer believed.

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
        >
        > Christie just posted this, which probably deserves it's own thread:
        >
        > And, just to mix up topics a bit, I'd suggest not using Permethrin on your
        > clothing. I, unfortunately, spayed my shorts/pants with the stuff last year
        > hoping to protect myself against mozzies but the ranger at Yosemite asked
        > me not to get them in the water because they suspected this is one possible
        > cause of a decline in frogs in some of the waterways.
        >
        > Seems to me to be a very good point, though I find pemethrin too useful to
        > avoid it entirely. But I now won't put it on anything I would wear into a
        > lake and will try to minimize it on long pants (which tend to get wet in
        > stream-crossings). I do know from other sources that Pemethrin is
        > water-soluble so the ranger's point sounds valid.
        >
        > If you don't know about permethrin (a clothing treatment that repels
        > mosquitoes) you might check it out. Main brand is Sawyer's. Google search
        > would be
        >
        > site:groups.yahoo.com inurl:johnmuirtrail permethrin
        >
        > 247 hits
        >
        > John Curran Ladd
        > 1616 Castro Street
        > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
        > 415-648-9279
        >
      • Christi McGinley
        Ah, the key here is that it is not permanent and does wash away over time with washings. If thousands of people are dipping their pants in the water over a
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 16, 2012
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          Ah, the key here is that it is not "permanent" and does wash away over time with washings. If thousands of people are dipping their pants in the water over a season it seems logical to me that there must be some resulting environmental impact.

          While it's important to have good science to back up claims, it seems to me common sense and good stewardship to limit the chemicals we humans bring into the wilderness where those chemicals don't naturally occur.  

          IMHO.

          Christi

          On Jan 16, 2012, at 6:16 PM, JamesB wrote:

           

          If permethrin were really very soluble in water, how do you reconcile that with being able to use it through dozens of soap and water launderings? I mean, face it, a quick dip in cold water with no soap isn't going to wash out a lot of any substance that can stand up well to a dozen or two washing machine trips (20 minutes in often warm water with probably over 5 minutes in warm soapy water each washing.

          Yes, permethrin is deadly to some fish, but it bonds pretty well to fabric which is the reason why it can be laundered many times and still act as an insecticide. bief dunking in cold pure water isn't going to get very much of it out, and it dilutes to a great extent in flowing streams and lakes.

          Rangers may be nearly omniscient beings, but sometimes they can apply information in a wrong way,[i have seen that happen even here for goodness sake :-)] and the general decline of amphibians still has the main scientific field in incomplete understanding of what is going on.

          Don't forget that you should drink eight eight ounces of water every day in order to digest your food, and don't forget that you only use 10% of your brain.... just two of many "official truths of the past" that are no longer believed.

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
          >
          > Christie just posted this, which probably deserves it's own thread:
          >
          > And, just to mix up topics a bit, I'd suggest not using Permethrin on your
          > clothing. I, unfortunately, spayed my shorts/pants with the stuff last year
          > hoping to protect myself against mozzies but the ranger at Yosemite asked
          > me not to get them in the water because they suspected this is one possible
          > cause of a decline in frogs in some of the waterways.
          >
          > Seems to me to be a very good point, though I find pemethrin too useful to
          > avoid it entirely. But I now won't put it on anything I would wear into a
          > lake and will try to minimize it on long pants (which tend to get wet in
          > stream-crossings). I do know from other sources that Pemethrin is
          > water-soluble so the ranger's point sounds valid.
          >
          > If you don't know about permethrin (a clothing treatment that repels
          > mosquitoes) you might check it out. Main brand is Sawyer's. Google search
          > would be
          >
          > site:groups.yahoo.com inurl:johnmuirtrail permethrin
          >
          > 247 hits
          >
          > John Curran Ladd
          > 1616 Castro Street
          > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
          > 415-648-9279
          >


        • John
          Thanks Christi; it is the sum of all parts that needs to be considered. JD
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 16, 2012
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            Thanks Christi; it is the sum of all parts that needs to be considered.

            JD

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Christi McGinley <christimcginley@...> wrote:
            >
            > Ah, the key here is that it is not "permanent" and does wash away over time with washings. If thousands of people are dipping their pants in the water over a season it seems logical to me that there must be some resulting environmental impact.
            >
            > While it's important to have good science to back up claims, it seems to me common sense and good stewardship to limit the chemicals we humans bring into the wilderness where those chemicals don't naturally occur.
            >
            > IMHO.
            >
            > Christi
            >
            > On Jan 16, 2012, at 6:16 PM, JamesB wrote:
            >
            > > If permethrin were really very soluble in water, how do you reconcile that with being able to use it through dozens of soap and water launderings? I mean, face it, a quick dip in cold water with no soap isn't going to wash out a lot of any substance that can stand up well to a dozen or two washing machine trips (20 minutes in often warm water with probably over 5 minutes in warm soapy water each washing.
            > >
            > > Yes, permethrin is deadly to some fish, but it bonds pretty well to fabric which is the reason why it can be laundered many times and still act as an insecticide. bief dunking in cold pure water isn't going to get very much of it out, and it dilutes to a great extent in flowing streams and lakes.
            > >
            > > Rangers may be nearly omniscient beings, but sometimes they can apply information in a wrong way,[i have seen that happen even here for goodness sake :-)] and the general decline of amphibians still has the main scientific field in incomplete understanding of what is going on.
            > >
            > > Don't forget that you should drink eight eight ounces of water every day in order to digest your food, and don't forget that you only use 10% of your brain.... just two of many "official truths of the past" that are no longer believed.
            > >
            > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Christie just posted this, which probably deserves it's own thread:
            > > >
            > > > And, just to mix up topics a bit, I'd suggest not using Permethrin on your
            > > > clothing. I, unfortunately, spayed my shorts/pants with the stuff last year
            > > > hoping to protect myself against mozzies but the ranger at Yosemite asked
            > > > me not to get them in the water because they suspected this is one possible
            > > > cause of a decline in frogs in some of the waterways.
            > > >
            > > > Seems to me to be a very good point, though I find pemethrin too useful to
            > > > avoid it entirely. But I now won't put it on anything I would wear into a
            > > > lake and will try to minimize it on long pants (which tend to get wet in
            > > > stream-crossings). I do know from other sources that Pemethrin is
            > > > water-soluble so the ranger's point sounds valid.
            > > >
            > > > If you don't know about permethrin (a clothing treatment that repels
            > > > mosquitoes) you might check it out. Main brand is Sawyer's. Google search
            > > > would be
            > > >
            > > > site:groups.yahoo.com inurl:johnmuirtrail permethrin
            > > >
            > > > 247 hits
            > > >
            > > > John Curran Ladd
            > > > 1616 Castro Street
            > > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
            > > > 415-648-9279
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Roleigh Martin
            http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/camp_bc.htm *Never wash directly in a water source* - clothes, dishes or yourself. Carry water 100 feet from the source
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 16, 2012
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              http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/camp_bc.htm

              "Never wash directly in a water source - clothes, dishes or yourself. Carry water 100 feet from the source before washing. Biodegradable soaps pollute; dispose of them like any soap, well away from water."

              This rule if followed should prevent insecticide from getting into the water.  The exception would be if you have the material on items you wear while swimming.  I would imagine more insecticide is getting into the water from people swimming without washing ahead of time 100 feet from water. 

              It would be interesting to see what scientists speculate is the cause to the frog population.  Obviously something is happening.
              -------------------------------------------------
              Visit Roleigh's Google Profile
              _




              On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 9:16 PM, JamesB <jdbuch123@...> wrote:
               

              If permethrin were really very soluble in water, how do you reconcile that with being able to use it through dozens of soap and water launderings? I mean, face it, a quick dip in cold water with no soap isn't going to wash out a lot of any substance that can stand up well to a dozen or two washing machine trips (20 minutes in often warm water with probably over 5 minutes in warm soapy water each washing.

              Yes, permethrin is deadly to some fish, but it bonds pretty well to fabric which is the reason why it can be laundered many times and still act as an insecticide. bief dunking in cold pure water isn't going to get very much of it out, and it dilutes to a great extent in flowing streams and lakes.

              Rangers may be nearly omniscient beings, but sometimes they can apply information in a wrong way,[i have seen that happen even here for goodness sake :-)] and the general decline of amphibians still has the main scientific field in incomplete understanding of what is going on.

              Don't forget that you should drink eight eight ounces of water every day in order to digest your food, and don't forget that you only use 10% of your brain.... just two of many "official truths of the past" that are no longer believed.



              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
              >
              > Christie just posted this, which probably deserves it's own thread:
              >
              > And, just to mix up topics a bit, I'd suggest not using Permethrin on your
              > clothing. I, unfortunately, spayed my shorts/pants with the stuff last year
              > hoping to protect myself against mozzies but the ranger at Yosemite asked
              > me not to get them in the water because they suspected this is one possible
              > cause of a decline in frogs in some of the waterways.
              >
              > Seems to me to be a very good point, though I find pemethrin too useful to
              > avoid it entirely. But I now won't put it on anything I would wear into a
              > lake and will try to minimize it on long pants (which tend to get wet in
              > stream-crossings). I do know from other sources that Pemethrin is
              > water-soluble so the ranger's point sounds valid.
              >
              > If you don't know about permethrin (a clothing treatment that repels
              > mosquitoes) you might check it out. Main brand is Sawyer's. Google search
              > would be
              >
              > site:groups.yahoo.com inurl:johnmuirtrail permethrin
              >
              > 247 hits
              >
              > John Curran Ladd
              > 1616 Castro Street
              > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
              > 415-648-9279
              >


            • John Ladd
              Also occurs to me that if you use permetrin effectively, you may be able to use less DEET or other on-skin repellant. While you can keep your clothes (and
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 16, 2012
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                Also occurs to me that if you use permetrin effectively, you may be able to use less DEET or other on-skin repellant.  While you can keep your clothes (and thus permethrin) out of water, it's harder to keep skin repellants out of water if only because you will cross streams (and may want a swim)

                John Curran Ladd
                1616 Castro Street
                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                415-648-9279


                On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:23 PM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                Christie just posted this, which probably deserves it's own thread:

                And, just to mix up topics a bit, I'd suggest not using Permethrin on your clothing. I, unfortunately, spayed my shorts/pants with the stuff last year hoping to protect myself against mozzies but the ranger at Yosemite asked me not to get them in the water because they suspected this is one possible cause of a decline in frogs in some of the waterways.

                Seems to me to be a very  good point, though I find pemethrin too useful to avoid it entirely.  But I now won't put it on anything I would wear into a lake and will try to minimize it on long pants (which tend to get wet in stream-crossings).  I do know from other sources that Pemethrin is water-soluble so the ranger's point sounds valid.

                If you don't know about permethrin (a clothing treatment that repels mosquitoes) you might check it out.  Main brand is Sawyer's.  Google search would be

                site:groups.yahoo.com inurl:johnmuirtrail permethrin

                247 hits

                John Curran Ladd
                1616 Castro Street
                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                415-648-9279

              • Steve
                When we are in the backcountry , I take water out of the stream or lake and bring it way back to my tent and wash my clothes and my self out of a 6 liter
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 17, 2012
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                  When we are in the backcountry , I take water out of the stream or lake and bring it way back to my tent and wash my clothes and my self out of a 6 liter bucket , I also have a larger bucket that i use to pump water out of ... My water source I leave alone. so that it is clean for me in the morning and clean for the next people when I leave... my buckets are only ounces each.. What I do worry about because I have seen time and time again , peoples bathroom habits , and soap scum all by the lake ( no its not pollen ) it was a new crew that pulled in the night before and washed dishes in the lake and made our water undrinkable , i was pissed and we told them so as we were leaving .. so im really careful about my water... think of a lake as one big toilet , all of the people above it doing you know what ...grrrrrr... sq
                • John Ladd
                  Bearcans also make good clothes washing/rinsing containers to help stay well away from lakes and watercourses. I use a 5 or 10 L collapsible bucket to carry
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 17, 2012
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                    Bearcans also make good clothes washing/rinsing containers to help stay well away from lakes and watercourses.  I use a 5 or 10 L collapsible bucket to carry the water but the bearcan for actual washing.

                    John Curran Ladd
                    1616 Castro Street
                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                    415-648-9279


                    On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Steve <squinne1@...> wrote:
                     


                    When we are in the backcountry , I take water out of the stream or lake and bring it way back to my tent and wash my clothes and my self out of a 6 liter bucket , I also have a larger bucket that i use to pump water out of ... My water source I leave alone. so that it is clean for me in the morning and clean for the next people when I leave... my buckets are only ounces each..


                  • byronnevins
                    Permethrin spraying of gear and clothing is very effective for mosquitoes. I sprayed some on my porch light which used to fill up with spider webs in a couple
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 17, 2014
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                      Permethrin spraying of gear and clothing is very effective for mosquitoes.  

                      I sprayed some on my porch light which used to fill up with spider webs in a couple days.  One spraying and zero spiders in 6 months.  It's amazing stuff.


                      Now if you are Mitt Romney - just buy the Sawyer stuff at REI.  Maybe $20 for a quart?


                      OR -- buy a quart of 20% concentrate online.  1 quart for ~ $25.00.  Then dilute it 20:1 to get a working spray of 0.5% About $1 a quart


                    • byronnevins
                      Oops dilute it 40:1 about $0.50 per quart My buddy in North Carolina used it to wipe out cock roaches on his big yard. Killed thousands of them. And they
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 17, 2014
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                        Oops dilute it 40:1  about $0.50 per quart

                        My buddy in North Carolina used it to wipe out cock roaches on his big yard.  Killed thousands of them.  And they never came back.  It's amazing stuff.
                      • Catherine Whittington
                        Please provide online source.  I ve search unsuccessfully. Thank you   Catherine reduce-reuse-recycle Please provide online source. I ve search
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 18, 2014
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                          Please provide "online" source.  I've search unsuccessfully. Thank you
                           
                          Catherine
                          reduce-reuse-recycle
                        • straw_marmot
                          In practice, Permethrin sprayed on clothes was not effective for me on the mosquitoes that I encountered along the JMT in my two trips in mosquito season this
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 18, 2014
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                            In practice, Permethrin sprayed on clothes was not effective for me on the mosquitoes that I encountered along the JMT in my two trips in mosquito season this year (early June and last week).  All of my clothes were sprayed thoroughly with Permethrin, and had gone through one gentle wash with cold water and a small amount of soap to remove the excess.   When I stopped in infested areas (without applying DEET), they soon swarmed around me and started landing and biting.   I could not do a properly controlled test with and without Permethrin (all my clothes were treated), but if it was doing anything at all it certainly wasn't stopping them to my satisfaction.   DEET, only the other hand, had an obvious and dramatic effect on all the mosquitoes that I encountered.  In lightly infested areas, the mosquitoes left immediately.   In heavily infested areas, some continued buzzing around but would not land or bite.   I used the Ultrathon slow-release 30% DEET cream, applied directly to my skin.

                            I won't be using Permethrin again.  I have no idea about any potential harm to the environment, but if it's not sufficiently effective to allow me to stop using DEET, what's the point.

                            I think the best all-round solution for myself and the environment is to cover up as much as possible.   Long pants, long sleeves, lightweight gloves worn all of the time.    This way, I'll only ever apply a minimal amount of DEET to my face and neck, or with a headnet in the evening none at all.   If it's only on your face and neck, it's relatively easy to wash it off away from water sources to protect the froggies and other wildlife.

                            On my recent fastpack hike I did wear shorts, because long pants during the day would just have been too hot.   I wasn't going to lather my legs in DEET, and just accepted that I'd get bitten some.   I did, but it wasn't bad at all.   I put on tights to cover my legs as soon as I stopped moving.

                            Ralph 
                          • Ray Rippel
                            That was my experience in Iraq, as well, where we used industrial strength permethrin on our uniforms. Many swear by it, but I ve always been unimpressed. Of
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 18, 2014
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                              That was my experience in Iraq, as well, where we used industrial strength permethrin on our uniforms. Many swear by it, but I've always been unimpressed. Of course, the skeeters there were bigger and hungrier than your average Sierra Nevada meadow inhabitant.


                            • John Ladd
                              10% permethrin at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EVKE0A/ref=ox_ya_os_product_refresh_C I cut it 1:12 for spray on and 1:36 for soak in. Results in 0.8%
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 18, 2014
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                                10% permethrin at


                                I cut it 1:12 for spray on and 1:36 for soak in. Results in 0.8% concentration (as used by US military). Use about 50% more water if you want civilian (0.5%) concentration. A quart of this stuff should be good for a lot of treatments.

                                John Curran Ladd
                                1616 Castro Street
                                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                415-648-9279


                                On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:27 AM, Catherine Whittington hikercatusa@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                 

                                Please provide "online" source.  I've search unsuccessfully. Thank you
                                 
                                Catherine
                                reduce-reuse-recycle


                              • John Ladd
                                Oddly, the link I just provided does not give the bottle size. It s a quart. Enough for 72 full outfits at 0.5% concentration
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jul 18, 2014
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                                  Oddly, the link I just provided does not give the bottle size. It's a quart. Enough for 72 full outfits at 0.5% concentration

                                  On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:32 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                  10% permethrin at


                                  I cut it 1:12 for spray on and 1:36 for soak in. Results in 0.8% concentration (as used by US military). Use about 50% more water if you want civilian (0.5%) concentration. A quart of this stuff should be good for a lot of treatments.

                                  John Curran Ladd
                                  1616 Castro Street
                                  San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                  415-648-9279


                                  On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:27 AM, Catherine Whittington hikercatusa@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                   

                                  Please provide "online" source.  I've search unsuccessfully. Thank you
                                   
                                  Catherine
                                  reduce-reuse-recycle



                                • Larry Beck
                                  Ralph, I ve never used Permethrin but I would not expect it to keep mosquitoes from landing on exposed skin. That s what deet is for :) I ve always just
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jul 18, 2014
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                                    Ralph,

                                    I've never used Permethrin but I would not expect it to keep mosquitoes from landing on exposed skin. That's what deet is for :)

                                    I've always just thought it would keep the blood thirsty little buggers from landing on your back and biting through your shirt.

                                    If it doesn't prevent that then it is useless. Did the mosquitoes you encountered bite you through your clothes too?
                                     
                                    Larry
                                    From: "ralphbge@... [johnmuirtrail]" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                                    To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 8:50 AM
                                    Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Permethrin

                                     
                                    In practice, Permethrin sprayed on clothes was not effective for me on the mosquitoes that I encountered along the JMT in my two trips in mosquito season this year (early June and last week).  All of my clothes were sprayed thoroughly with Permethrin, and had gone through one gentle wash with cold water and a small amount of soap to remove the excess.   When I stopped in infested areas (without applying DEET), they soon swarmed around me and started landing and biting.   I could not do a properly controlled test with and without Permethrin (all my clothes were treated), but if it was doing anything at all it certainly wasn't stopping them to my satisfaction.   DEET, only the other hand, had an obvious and dramatic effect on all the mosquitoes that I encountered.  In lightly infested areas, the mosquitoes left immediately.   In heavily infested areas, some continued buzzing around but would not land or bite.   I used the Ultrathon slow-release 30% DEET cream, applied directly to my skin.

                                    I won't be using Permethrin again.  I have no idea about any potential harm to the environment, but if it's not sufficiently effective to allow me to stop using DEET, what's the point.

                                    I think the best all-round solution for myself and the environment is to cover up as much as possible.   Long pants, long sleeves, lightweight gloves worn all of the time.    This way, I'll only ever apply a minimal amount of DEET to my face and neck, or with a headnet in the evening none at all.   If it's only on your face and neck, it's relatively easy to wash it off away from water sources to protect the froggies and other wildlife.

                                    On my recent fastpack hike I did wear shorts, because long pants during the day would just have been too hot.   I wasn't going to lather my legs in DEET, and just accepted that I'd get bitten some.   I did, but it wasn't bad at all.   I put on tights to cover my legs as soon as I stopped moving.

                                    Ralph 


                                  • Cindy Liebeck
                                    I diluted the product with water to a 50:1 ratio. It turns milky white. Soak clothes for minimum 2 hours and keep wet product away from all exposed skin.
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jul 20, 2014
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                                      I diluted the product with water to a 50:1 ratio.  It turns milky white.  Soak clothes for minimum 2 hours and keep wet product away from all exposed skin.  After the clothes air dry outside away from all pets and people, I do a quick wash/rinse/dry with mild soap.  Results should last for up to 20 washings as I understand it.

                                      Birds are supposedly not impacted by this product wet or dry.  Mammals are impacted by wet product resulting in numbness and other nerve issues.  It’s important that the wet product be handled with utmost care.  I am fully covered with latex gloves and mask and eye cover when using.  Dogs are sequestered.

                                      The product will keep mozzies from landing on your clothes; thereby reducing your need to Deet yourself, especially if you hike covered like I do.

                                      I treat pants, shirts, gloves, hat that I plan on wearing while hiking.  There’s no need to treat undergarments.  I have not tried this product on any rain gear, only on standard Ex-Officio-style shirts/pants.  


                                      This bottle is huge, but I use it for its intended usage of termite eradication, too.

                                      I’ve had good luck with this and noticed that mozzies don’t land on my pants and shirt.  Combined with a mozzie headnet over my hat, I’m good to go.

                                      C.

                                      On Jul 18, 2014, at 10:39 AM, John Ladd johnladd@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                      Oddly, the link I just provided does not give the bottle size. It's a quart. Enough for 72 full outfits at 0.5% concentration

                                      On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:32 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                      10% permethrin at


                                      I cut it 1:12 for spray on and 1:36 for soak in. Results in 0.8% concentration (as used by US military). Use about 50% more water if you want civilian (0.5%) concentration. A quart of this stuff should be good for a lot of treatments.

                                      John Curran Ladd
                                      1616 Castro Street
                                      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                      415-648-9279


                                      On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:27 AM, Catherine Whittington hikercatusa@...[johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                       

                                      Please provide "online" source.  I've search unsuccessfully. Thank you
                                       
                                      Catherine
                                      reduce-reuse-recycle





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