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Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: Backpack Advice

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  • Fred Sharples
    Yes, it s true, those are a copy of Kevin s waypoints! I edited Kevin s waypoints and added them to a google spreadsheet as a tab on the far edge of the doc. I
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 3, 2008
      Yes, it's true, those are a copy of Kevin's waypoints!

      I edited Kevin's waypoints and added them to a google spreadsheet as a tab
      on the far edge of the doc. I didn't mean to 'publish' them as mine. (I
      didn't know they were going up in this doc) So now I see it is a reference
      without credit and for that I apologize to Kevin.

      The Google Earth file that I created and edited using Kevin's waypoints is
      on Kevin's site and mine too.
      http://kevinaston.com/files/JMT.KMZ

      To everyone on this list: Kevin has been a huge help to all of us on the
      list and by no means do I want to take credit for all the hard work Kevin
      has done putting the waypoints together.

      Kevin has advised me with some of the planning of my trip and I really
      treasure his thoughtful posts here on the list and his commitment to the
      trail.

      Also, please don't depend on my version of the waypoints or my Google Earth
      file for on-the-trail navigation. I edited them to work with Google Earth
      and not for use on the ground.

      PS Kevin, I put a credit and disclaimer up there.
      Let me me know if that's ok.
      Your friend,
      Fred(Quake)


      On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Kevin Aston <kevin@...> wrote:

      > I like it too Fred. Looks just like the one on my website at
      > http://kevinaston.com/JMTSpreadsheet.html
      >
      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com <johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Fred, your Waypoints Spreadsheet is fantastic.
      > >
      > > Looks on the surface like you followed the 21 day plan of Cicerone.
      > >
      > > What happened regarding dates of each campsight? After 6/14/2007,
      > the next date is labeled "3". Then there is another date labeled "5
      > 6". Care to elucidate?
      > >
      > > Did you do the whole hike in one year or two years (split up to
      > explain the date enumeration change)?
      > >
      > > My only beaf with the Vapor Trail is the lack of stays but I figured
      > out how to put stays in them making the pack about 2'10oz -- a little
      > lighter than the 3lb Ozone. It definitely is a prime candidate for my
      > hike.
      > >
      > > Did you ever use the Ice Axe or if going in Late July thru mid
      > August would you skip the Ice Axe? I saw you never used the crampons.
      > I do have two hiking poles to help in snow, ice, etc.
      > >
      > >
      > > Fred Sharples <fred@...> wrote: Yes, the
      > canister will only fit vertically in that pack.
      > > I had a sleeping bag underneath the canister.
      > > I had various clothing on the sides and a plastic origami(flat)
      > dinner bowl
      > > on the rear outside top edge to keep it from chafing.
      > > It wound up chafing some but I also had an ice axe because it was early
      > > June..That caused most of the chafing against the canister.
      > >
      > > You can check out a super detailed pack list with weights in oz here..
      > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4CfkufA0dTnkIUlma_JYVw
      > >
      > > I thought it was a great setup and I would do it again with the
      > same pack
      > > and canister.
      > > It's my favorite pack ever. It was probably the most popular pack
      > on the PCT
      > > last year.
      > > Many people bought them after a few hundred miles of dealing with
      > home made
      > > and other packs.
      > > (I'm not a rep of granite gear but I must sound like one ;))
      > > As far as canisters go, you might be able to get away with their
      > smaller
      > > version for 10 days solo. That big one is big.
      > >
      > > have a great trip.
      > > -quake
      > >
      > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Fred, can you please detail very specifically how you packed your
      > > > backpack with the Expedition? I presume you had it positioned
      > vertically
      > > > (sitting at the bottom of the pack or if not, what was beneath
      > it)? What did
      > > > you have to the left and right side of the cannister in your bag?
      > Was there
      > > > anything on the pad-foam side of the pack (between it and the
      > cannister)?
      > > > Was there anything on the farthest-from-skin rear-fabric (between
      > it and the
      > > > cannister)? What was your base pack weight (total weight including
      > > > everything but water and food that is inside the cannister or
      > inside the
      > > > pack but do include the weight of the cannister)? Thanks!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > Orange Design Inc.
      > > Games - Tech - Art
      > > 2601 Mission Street #800
      > > San Francisco, CA 94110
      > > 415.643.4465 - Studio
      > > 415.722.6442 - Mobile
      > > http://orangedesign.com
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >



      --
      Orange Design Inc.
      Games - Tech - Art
      2601 Mission Street #800
      San Francisco, CA 94110
      415.643.4465 - Studio
      415.722.6442 - Mobile
      http://orangedesign.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kevin Aston
      No Problem Fred. I did not create the list of places, distances, and altitudes, I borrowed them from somebody s log about 3 1/2 years ago, I don t know where I
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 5, 2008
        No Problem Fred. I did not create the list of places, distances, and
        altitudes, I borrowed them from somebody's log about 3 1/2 years ago,
        I don't know where I got them. I came up with the Waypoints using
        Garmin's MapSource. As I was following them on the real trail, I found
        that some were right on, others were a hundred yards off. I am sure
        some of that was the accuracy of my Rino 530, but much of it was my
        looks good placement of the waypoints, and the actual accuracy of the
        software. MapSource had several errors I found as I hiked. My weakness
        in choosing equipment is my desire for electronic gadgets on the
        trip. Between camera, lens, hand-held radio, GPS, electronic water
        purifier, batteries, and cel-phone to call from the top of Whitney I
        load myself down an extra couple of pounds. However my water Purifier
        the MSR MIOX Water Purifier, weighs a lot less than a pump, so that is
        not really an extra.

        Planning is almost as fun as hiking.
        Kevin Aston

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Sharples" <fred@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes, it's true, those are a copy of Kevin's waypoints!
        >
        > I edited Kevin's waypoints and added them to a google spreadsheet as
        a tab
        > on the far edge of the doc. I didn't mean to 'publish' them as mine. (I
        > didn't know they were going up in this doc) So now I see it is a
        reference
        > without credit and for that I apologize to Kevin.
        >
        > The Google Earth file that I created and edited using Kevin's
        waypoints is
        > on Kevin's site and mine too.
        > http://kevinaston.com/files/JMT.KMZ
        >
        > To everyone on this list: Kevin has been a huge help to all of us on the
        > list and by no means do I want to take credit for all the hard work
        Kevin
        > has done putting the waypoints together.
        >
        > Kevin has advised me with some of the planning of my trip and I really
        > treasure his thoughtful posts here on the list and his commitment to the
        > trail.
        >
        > Also, please don't depend on my version of the waypoints or my
        Google Earth
        > file for on-the-trail navigation. I edited them to work with Google
        Earth
        > and not for use on the ground.
        >
        > PS Kevin, I put a credit and disclaimer up there.
        > Let me me know if that's ok.
        > Your friend,
        > Fred(Quake)
        >
        >
        > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Kevin Aston <kevin@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I like it too Fred. Looks just like the one on my website at
        > > http://kevinaston.com/JMTSpreadsheet.html
        > >
        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        <johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Fred, your Waypoints Spreadsheet is fantastic.
        > > >
        > > > Looks on the surface like you followed the 21 day plan of Cicerone.
        > > >
        > > > What happened regarding dates of each campsight? After 6/14/2007,
        > > the next date is labeled "3". Then there is another date labeled "5
        > > 6". Care to elucidate?
        > > >
        > > > Did you do the whole hike in one year or two years (split up to
        > > explain the date enumeration change)?
        > > >
        > > > My only beaf with the Vapor Trail is the lack of stays but I figured
        > > out how to put stays in them making the pack about 2'10oz -- a little
        > > lighter than the 3lb Ozone. It definitely is a prime candidate for my
        > > hike.
        > > >
        > > > Did you ever use the Ice Axe or if going in Late July thru mid
        > > August would you skip the Ice Axe? I saw you never used the crampons.
        > > I do have two hiking poles to help in snow, ice, etc.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Fred Sharples <fred@> wrote: Yes, the
        > > canister will only fit vertically in that pack.
        > > > I had a sleeping bag underneath the canister.
        > > > I had various clothing on the sides and a plastic origami(flat)
        > > dinner bowl
        > > > on the rear outside top edge to keep it from chafing.
        > > > It wound up chafing some but I also had an ice axe because it
        was early
        > > > June..That caused most of the chafing against the canister.
        > > >
        > > > You can check out a super detailed pack list with weights in oz
        here..
        > > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4CfkufA0dTnkIUlma_JYVw
        > > >
        > > > I thought it was a great setup and I would do it again with the
        > > same pack
        > > > and canister.
        > > > It's my favorite pack ever. It was probably the most popular pack
        > > on the PCT
        > > > last year.
        > > > Many people bought them after a few hundred miles of dealing with
        > > home made
        > > > and other packs.
        > > > (I'm not a rep of granite gear but I must sound like one ;))
        > > > As far as canisters go, you might be able to get away with their
        > > smaller
        > > > version for 10 days solo. That big one is big.
        > > >
        > > > have a great trip.
        > > > -quake
        > > >
        > > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > Fred, can you please detail very specifically how you packed your
        > > > > backpack with the Expedition? I presume you had it positioned
        > > vertically
        > > > > (sitting at the bottom of the pack or if not, what was beneath
        > > it)? What did
        > > > > you have to the left and right side of the cannister in your bag?
        > > Was there
        > > > > anything on the pad-foam side of the pack (between it and the
        > > cannister)?
        > > > > Was there anything on the farthest-from-skin rear-fabric (between
        > > it and the
        > > > > cannister)? What was your base pack weight (total weight including
        > > > > everything but water and food that is inside the cannister or
        > > inside the
        > > > > pack but do include the weight of the cannister)? Thanks!
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > > Orange Design Inc.
        > > > Games - Tech - Art
        > > > 2601 Mission Street #800
        > > > San Francisco, CA 94110
        > > > 415.643.4465 - Studio
        > > > 415.722.6442 - Mobile
        > > > http://orangedesign.com
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Orange Design Inc.
        > Games - Tech - Art
        > 2601 Mission Street #800
        > San Francisco, CA 94110
        > 415.643.4465 - Studio
        > 415.722.6442 - Mobile
        > http://orangedesign.com
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • beemancron
        My favorite packs are made by Gossamer Gear. Three years ago, I used a Mariposa Plus and an Expedition on a 9 day scout trip. The challenge was not so much as
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 5, 2008
          My favorite packs are made by Gossamer Gear. Three years ago, I used a Mariposa Plus
          and an Expedition on a 9 day scout trip. The challenge was not so much as how the
          Expedition fit in the pack (Vertical) but how to pack 9 days of food into 900 cuin. Teaching
          this skill to scouts was also a challenge. :)

          On my JMT thru hike this year, leaving July 13, I am using the same Mariposa Plus and a
          Bearvault 400. I have a choice of strapping it on top of the pack or storing vertical inside
          the pack. With the options of multiple resupply locations: Reds, VVR, Muir Ranch, I just
          don't see a need to carry 9 days of food in 900 cuins. Too much weight!

          My newly adopted thru-hiker slogan: "When the weight goes down, the fun goes up" :)

          Beeman

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "hewhohikesalot" <hewhohikes@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm thinking of doing a ten day trip on the JMT and was wondering what
          > kind of backpack to get that would be big enough to contain a
          > expedition bearikade (14" long and 9" round). I'm looking for
          > something reasonably light and about 3000+ cubic inches in volume. Any
          > advice would be appreciated.
          > Thanks.
          >
        • rambler4466
          I use the pack made by Moonbow Gear. This pack will easily accomadte a Bear Canister either horizontally or vertically. I carry my gear in three nylon dry
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 11, 2008
            I use the pack made by Moonbow Gear. This pack will easily accomadte a Bear Canister
            either horizontally or vertically. I carry my gear in three nylon dry bags from Camp Inn.
            Two are 10 L bags for clothes, gear, and sleeping bag. One is 19L for food. The food bag
            will be replaced by the canister when hiking the JMT. If two bags are equal in weight, I
            pack two vertically with the sleeping bag horizontal across the top.
            Otherwise I carry all three horizontal with the heaviest bag (canister) (food) in the middle.
            My sleeping bag (homemade quilt) is down, so I like it on top, not on the bottom, so it will
            not be crushed or compacted. The pack has a mesh pocket on the outside for a tarp,
            raingear and misc.

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have the Expedition cannister myself and will be on the JMT for 16-17 days this
            summer. I will be comparing the use of this cannister with a variety of pack options
            myself:
            >
            > 1. with a Granite Gear Ozone (3 pounds)
            > 2. with a Granite Gear Vapor Trail (2 pounds)
            > 3. with a LuxuryLite Frame Backpack (weighs under 2 pounds)
            > 4. with a Osprey Aether 60 pack
            > 5. with a SixMoonDesigns's Starlight pack (weighs under 2 pounds)
            >
            > The only one of the five above that it fits horizontally is on the LuxuryLite pack, the
            others it has to stack vertically in the bag which is a bummer, as there is slack space
            around the cylinder and what do you stack alongside the cylinder as you kind of want the
            cylinder to be dead center in pack (centered left-to-right that is).
            >
            > I don't know at this point which one I'm going to like best with the cylinder.
            >
            > I know that Dan McHale makes custom packs that can fit the Expedition Cannister
            horizontally in the pack and the pack comes in under 3 pounds. That is another option
            but you have to get your order in very fast if you want it done for 2008.
            >
            > I'm anxious to find out which is going to work best. I'll be doing 2 day weekend hikes
            discovering which option I like the best and will update the list with my findings.
            >
            >
            > Drew <drew@...> wrote:
            > I am set to thru hike in Aug, and was wondering the same thing. Right
            > now my plan is to carry the same Bearikade, and use a Granite Gear
            > Vapor Trail.
            >
            > Some specs can be found here
            >
            > Vapor Trail from Granite Gear
            > <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/vapor_trail/in\
            > dex.html>
            >
            > I have both it and the Alpine Vapor -for use in the winter snowshoeing..
            > So. I figure I might as well use what I have. After reading several
            > reviews and trail summaries it appears many a thru hiker are using the
            > Vapor Trail. My only real concern is how the bear can will fit/ride. I
            > have not received my order as of yet.
            >
            > I also looked at a couple of others, but I am sure the list goes on and
            > on. you may get soem ideas from the 2008 gear guide from Backpacker
            > magazine.
            >
            > Nimbus Ozone from Granite Gear
            > <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/nimbus_ozone/i\
            > ndex.html>
            > Golite Pinnacle
            > <http://www.golite.com/Product/proddetail.aspx?p=PA5252&s=1>
            >
            > Drew
            >
            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "hewhohikesalot" <hewhohikes@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > I'm thinking of doing a ten day trip on the JMT and was wondering what
            > > kind of backpack to get that would be big enough to contain a
            > > expedition bearikade (14" long and 9" round). I'm looking for
            > > something reasonably light and about 3000+ cubic inches in volume.
            > Any
            > > advice would be appreciated.
            > > Thanks.
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Steve Schauer
            We used the Osprey Aether 70 (steve) and Ariel 65 Claire) for our thru-hike. The most comfortable pack we ve ever had! Claire ...
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 11, 2008
              We used the Osprey Aether 70 (steve) and Ariel 65
              Claire) for our thru-hike. The most comfortable pack
              we've ever had!
              Claire
              --- rambler4466 <rambler4466@...> wrote:

              > I use the pack made by Moonbow Gear. This pack will
              > easily accomadte a Bear Canister
              > either horizontally or vertically. I carry my gear
              > in three nylon dry bags from Camp Inn.
              > Two are 10 L bags for clothes, gear, and sleeping
              > bag. One is 19L for food. The food bag
              > will be replaced by the canister when hiking the
              > JMT. If two bags are equal in weight, I
              > pack two vertically with the sleeping bag
              > horizontal across the top.
              > Otherwise I carry all three horizontal with the
              > heaviest bag (canister) (food) in the middle.
              > My sleeping bag (homemade quilt) is down, so I like
              > it on top, not on the bottom, so it will
              > not be crushed or compacted. The pack has a mesh
              > pocket on the outside for a tarp,
              > raingear and misc.
              >
              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin
              > <roleigh@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I have the Expedition cannister myself and will be
              > on the JMT for 16-17 days this
              > summer. I will be comparing the use of this
              > cannister with a variety of pack options
              > myself:
              > >
              > > 1. with a Granite Gear Ozone (3 pounds)
              > > 2. with a Granite Gear Vapor Trail (2 pounds)
              > > 3. with a LuxuryLite Frame Backpack (weighs
              > under 2 pounds)
              > > 4. with a Osprey Aether 60 pack
              > > 5. with a SixMoonDesigns's Starlight pack
              > (weighs under 2 pounds)
              > >
              > > The only one of the five above that it fits
              > horizontally is on the LuxuryLite pack, the
              > others it has to stack vertically in the bag which
              > is a bummer, as there is slack space
              > around the cylinder and what do you stack alongside
              > the cylinder as you kind of want the
              > cylinder to be dead center in pack (centered
              > left-to-right that is).
              > >
              > > I don't know at this point which one I'm going
              > to like best with the cylinder.
              > >
              > > I know that Dan McHale makes custom packs that
              > can fit the Expedition Cannister
              > horizontally in the pack and the pack comes in under
              > 3 pounds. That is another option
              > but you have to get your order in very fast if you
              > want it done for 2008.
              > >
              > > I'm anxious to find out which is going to work
              > best. I'll be doing 2 day weekend hikes
              > discovering which option I like the best and will
              > update the list with my findings.
              > >
              > >
              > > Drew <drew@...> wrote:
              > > I am set to thru hike in Aug, and was
              > wondering the same thing. Right
              > > now my plan is to carry the same Bearikade, and
              > use a Granite Gear
              > > Vapor Trail.
              > >
              > > Some specs can be found here
              > >
              > > Vapor Trail from Granite Gear
              > >
              >
              <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/vapor_trail/in\
              > > dex.html>
              > >
              > > I have both it and the Alpine Vapor -for use in
              > the winter snowshoeing..
              > > So. I figure I might as well use what I have.
              > After reading several
              > > reviews and trail summaries it appears many a thru
              > hiker are using the
              > > Vapor Trail. My only real concern is how the bear
              > can will fit/ride. I
              > > have not received my order as of yet.
              > >
              > > I also looked at a couple of others, but I am sure
              > the list goes on and
              > > on. you may get soem ideas from the 2008 gear
              > guide from Backpacker
              > > magazine.
              > >
              > > Nimbus Ozone from Granite Gear
              > >
              >
              <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/nimbus_ozone/i\
              > > ndex.html>
              > > Golite Pinnacle
              > >
              >
              <http://www.golite.com/Product/proddetail.aspx?p=PA5252&s=1>
              > >
              > > Drew
              > >
              > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com,
              > "hewhohikesalot" <hewhohikes@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I'm thinking of doing a ten day trip on the JMT
              > and was wondering what
              > > > kind of backpack to get that would be big enough
              > to contain a
              > > > expedition bearikade (14" long and 9" round).
              > I'm looking for
              > > > something reasonably light and about 3000+ cubic
              > inches in volume.
              > > Any
              > > > advice would be appreciated.
              > > > Thanks.
              > > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Patronio@aol.com
              I stand behind Osprey packs 100%. I do have an Aether 70 and 60 and are extremely comfortable. I highly recommend them. [Non-text portions of this message have
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 15, 2008
                I stand behind Osprey packs 100%. I do have an Aether 70 and 60 and are extremely comfortable. I highly recommend them.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • targetdoggmechanic
                Ditto to that one. For the price they are one of the best packs I have ever used. Gotta love the thermoformed belt that REI can custom fit to your waist.
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 18, 2008
                  Ditto to that one. For the price they are one of the best packs I have
                  ever used. Gotta love the thermoformed belt that REI can custom fit to
                  your waist. Did the JMT last year and it performed flawlessly. Gonna
                  buy my fiancee one this year for her b-day.

                  Dogg

                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Patronio@... wrote:
                  >
                  > I stand behind Osprey packs 100%. I do have an Aether 70 and 60 and
                  are extremely comfortable. I highly recommend them.
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Barbara Karagosian
                  Hi Fred - How did you find the Virga? I have one, and wore it in the shower as a test and got a wet patch on the front - maybe leaked thru or next to the
                  Message 8 of 18 , Aug 4, 2008
                    Hi Fred - How did you find the Virga? I have one, and wore it in the shower
                    as a test and got a wet patch on the front - maybe leaked thru or next to
                    the zipper. Did you have it in any downpours? How was the hood? Thanks in
                    advance - Barbara


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