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Re: Backpack Advice

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  • Drew
    I am set to thru hike in Aug, and was wondering the same thing. Right now my plan is to carry the same Bearikade, and use a Granite Gear Vapor Trail. Some
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 2 3:01 PM
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      I am set to thru hike in Aug, and was wondering the same thing. Right
      now my plan is to carry the same Bearikade, and use a Granite Gear
      Vapor Trail.

      Some specs can be found here

      Vapor Trail from Granite Gear
      <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/vapor_trail/in\
      dex.html>

      I have both it and the Alpine Vapor -for use in the winter snowshoeing..
      So. I figure I might as well use what I have. After reading several
      reviews and trail summaries it appears many a thru hiker are using the
      Vapor Trail. My only real concern is how the bear can will fit/ride. I
      have not received my order as of yet.

      I also looked at a couple of others, but I am sure the list goes on and
      on. you may get soem ideas from the 2008 gear guide from Backpacker
      magazine.

      Nimbus Ozone from Granite Gear
      <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/nimbus_ozone/i\
      ndex.html>
      Golite Pinnacle
      <http://www.golite.com/Product/proddetail.aspx?p=PA5252&s=1>


      Drew


      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "hewhohikesalot" <hewhohikes@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I'm thinking of doing a ten day trip on the JMT and was wondering what
      > kind of backpack to get that would be big enough to contain a
      > expedition bearikade (14" long and 9" round). I'm looking for
      > something reasonably light and about 3000+ cubic inches in volume.
      Any
      > advice would be appreciated.
      > Thanks.
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Roleigh Martin
      I have the Expedition cannister myself and will be on the JMT for 16-17 days this summer. I will be comparing the use of this cannister with a variety of pack
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 2 3:17 PM
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        I have the Expedition cannister myself and will be on the JMT for 16-17 days this summer. I will be comparing the use of this cannister with a variety of pack options myself:

        1. with a Granite Gear Ozone (3 pounds)
        2. with a Granite Gear Vapor Trail (2 pounds)
        3. with a LuxuryLite Frame Backpack (weighs under 2 pounds)
        4. with a Osprey Aether 60 pack
        5. with a SixMoonDesigns's Starlight pack (weighs under 2 pounds)

        The only one of the five above that it fits horizontally is on the LuxuryLite pack, the others it has to stack vertically in the bag which is a bummer, as there is slack space around the cylinder and what do you stack alongside the cylinder as you kind of want the cylinder to be dead center in pack (centered left-to-right that is).

        I don't know at this point which one I'm going to like best with the cylinder.

        I know that Dan McHale makes custom packs that can fit the Expedition Cannister horizontally in the pack and the pack comes in under 3 pounds. That is another option but you have to get your order in very fast if you want it done for 2008.

        I'm anxious to find out which is going to work best. I'll be doing 2 day weekend hikes discovering which option I like the best and will update the list with my findings.


        Drew <drew@...> wrote:
        I am set to thru hike in Aug, and was wondering the same thing. Right
        now my plan is to carry the same Bearikade, and use a Granite Gear
        Vapor Trail.

        Some specs can be found here

        Vapor Trail from Granite Gear
        <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/vapor_trail/in\
        dex.html>

        I have both it and the Alpine Vapor -for use in the winter snowshoeing..
        So. I figure I might as well use what I have. After reading several
        reviews and trail summaries it appears many a thru hiker are using the
        Vapor Trail. My only real concern is how the bear can will fit/ride. I
        have not received my order as of yet.

        I also looked at a couple of others, but I am sure the list goes on and
        on. you may get soem ideas from the 2008 gear guide from Backpacker
        magazine.

        Nimbus Ozone from Granite Gear
        <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/nimbus_ozone/i\
        ndex.html>
        Golite Pinnacle
        <http://www.golite.com/Product/proddetail.aspx?p=PA5252&s=1>

        Drew

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "hewhohikesalot" <hewhohikes@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I'm thinking of doing a ten day trip on the JMT and was wondering what
        > kind of backpack to get that would be big enough to contain a
        > expedition bearikade (14" long and 9" round). I'm looking for
        > something reasonably light and about 3000+ cubic inches in volume.
        Any
        > advice would be appreciated.
        > Thanks.
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Fred Sharples
        I used the Granite Gear Vapor Trail with the Expedition canister last year. The pack chafed a bit around the can but it was a super comfortable pack for me. I
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 2 3:47 PM
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          I used the Granite Gear Vapor Trail with the Expedition canister last year.
          The pack chafed a bit around the can but it was a super comfortable pack for
          me.
          I went 13 days without resupply solo. total trrip was 21 days.
          -quake
          fredsharples.com/jmt.html



          On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:

          > I have the Expedition cannister myself and will be on the JMT for 16-17
          > days this summer. I will be comparing the use of this cannister with a
          > variety of pack options myself:
          >
          > 1. with a Granite Gear Ozone (3 pounds)
          > 2. with a Granite Gear Vapor Trail (2 pounds)
          > 3. with a LuxuryLite Frame Backpack (weighs under 2 pounds)
          > 4. with a Osprey Aether 60 pack
          > 5. with a SixMoonDesigns's Starlight pack (weighs under 2 pounds)
          >
          > The only one of the five above that it fits horizontally is on the
          > LuxuryLite pack, the others it has to stack vertically in the bag which is a
          > bummer, as there is slack space around the cylinder and what do you stack
          > alongside the cylinder as you kind of want the cylinder to be dead center in
          > pack (centered left-to-right that is).
          >
          > I don't know at this point which one I'm going to like best with the
          > cylinder.
          >
          > I know that Dan McHale makes custom packs that can fit the Expedition
          > Cannister horizontally in the pack and the pack comes in under 3 pounds.
          > That is another option but you have to get your order in very fast if you
          > want it done for 2008.
          >
          > I'm anxious to find out which is going to work best. I'll be doing 2 day
          > weekend hikes discovering which option I like the best and will update the
          > list with my findings.
          >
          >
          > Drew <drew@... <drew%40eyehike.com>> wrote:
          > I am set to thru hike in Aug, and was wondering the same thing. Right
          > now my plan is to carry the same Bearikade, and use a Granite Gear
          > Vapor Trail.
          >
          > Some specs can be found here
          >
          > Vapor Trail from Granite Gear
          > <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/vapor_trail/in\
          > dex.html<http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/vapor_trail/index.html>
          > >
          >
          > I have both it and the Alpine Vapor -for use in the winter snowshoeing..
          > So. I figure I might as well use what I have. After reading several
          > reviews and trail summaries it appears many a thru hiker are using the
          > Vapor Trail. My only real concern is how the bear can will fit/ride. I
          > have not received my order as of yet.
          >
          > I also looked at a couple of others, but I am sure the list goes on and
          > on. you may get soem ideas from the 2008 gear guide from Backpacker
          > magazine.
          >
          > Nimbus Ozone from Granite Gear
          > <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/nimbus_ozone/i\
          > ndex.html<http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/nimbus_ozone/index.html>
          > >
          > Golite Pinnacle
          > <http://www.golite.com/Product/proddetail.aspx?p=PA5252&s=1>
          >
          > Drew
          >
          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com <johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > "hewhohikesalot" <hewhohikes@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > I'm thinking of doing a ten day trip on the JMT and was wondering what
          > > kind of backpack to get that would be big enough to contain a
          > > expedition bearikade (14" long and 9" round). I'm looking for
          > > something reasonably light and about 3000+ cubic inches in volume.
          > Any
          > > advice would be appreciated.
          > > Thanks.
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >



          --
          Orange Design Inc.
          Games - Tech - Art
          2601 Mission Street #800
          San Francisco, CA 94110
          415.643.4465 - Studio
          415.722.6442 - Mobile
          http://orangedesign.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Paul
          ... what ... Any ... I used the same bear canister in 2006 on the JMT. My pack of choice is the ULA Circuit. As Roliegh mentioned the canister has to go in
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 2 3:58 PM
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            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "hewhohikesalot" <hewhohikes@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I'm thinking of doing a ten day trip on the JMT and was wondering
            what
            > kind of backpack to get that would be big enough to contain a
            > expedition bearikade (14" long and 9" round). I'm looking for
            > something reasonably light and about 3000+ cubic inches in volume.
            Any
            > advice would be appreciated.
            > Thanks.
            >
            I used the same bear canister in 2006 on the JMT. My pack of choice is
            the ULA Circuit. As Roliegh mentioned the canister has to go in
            verticaly. I actualy prefer this method as the first things in the
            pack are my sleeping pad and bag. On to of these goes the bear
            canister. What I like about that is, I like to eat on the trail all day
            and this puts the lid of the canister right on top! Right at my
            fingertips. I never felt that it was unbalanced. I also love the
            waistbelt pockets on the ULA packs.
          • Roleigh Martin
            Fred, can you please detail very specifically how you packed your backpack with the Expedition? I presume you had it positioned vertically (sitting at the
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 2 4:14 PM
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              Fred, can you please detail very specifically how you packed your backpack with the Expedition? I presume you had it positioned vertically (sitting at the bottom of the pack or if not, what was beneath it)? What did you have to the left and right side of the cannister in your bag? Was there anything on the pad-foam side of the pack (between it and the cannister)? Was there anything on the farthest-from-skin rear-fabric (between it and the cannister)? What was your base pack weight (total weight including everything but water and food that is inside the cannister or inside the pack but do include the weight of the cannister)? Thanks!


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Fred Sharples
              Yes, the canister will only fit vertically in that pack. I had a sleeping bag underneath the canister. I had various clothing on the sides and a plastic
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 2 5:06 PM
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                Yes, the canister will only fit vertically in that pack.
                I had a sleeping bag underneath the canister.
                I had various clothing on the sides and a plastic origami(flat) dinner bowl
                on the rear outside top edge to keep it from chafing.
                It wound up chafing some but I also had an ice axe because it was early
                June..That caused most of the chafing against the canister.

                You can check out a super detailed pack list with weights in oz here..
                http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4CfkufA0dTnkIUlma_JYVw

                I thought it was a great setup and I would do it again with the same pack
                and canister.
                It's my favorite pack ever. It was probably the most popular pack on the PCT
                last year.
                Many people bought them after a few hundred miles of dealing with home made
                and other packs.
                (I'm not a rep of granite gear but I must sound like one ;))
                As far as canisters go, you might be able to get away with their smaller
                version for 10 days solo. That big one is big.

                have a great trip.
                -quake


                On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:

                > Fred, can you please detail very specifically how you packed your
                > backpack with the Expedition? I presume you had it positioned vertically
                > (sitting at the bottom of the pack or if not, what was beneath it)? What did
                > you have to the left and right side of the cannister in your bag? Was there
                > anything on the pad-foam side of the pack (between it and the cannister)?
                > Was there anything on the farthest-from-skin rear-fabric (between it and the
                > cannister)? What was your base pack weight (total weight including
                > everything but water and food that is inside the cannister or inside the
                > pack but do include the weight of the cannister)? Thanks!
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >



                --
                Orange Design Inc.
                Games - Tech - Art
                2601 Mission Street #800
                San Francisco, CA 94110
                415.643.4465 - Studio
                415.722.6442 - Mobile
                http://orangedesign.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • dh5169
                I can say from experience that the Expedition does not fit horizontally in an Osprey Crescent 75. I traded it back (rental) for 2 weekenders - one for my pack
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 2 5:16 PM
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                  I can say from experience that the Expedition does not fit
                  horizontally in an Osprey Crescent 75. I traded it back (rental) for
                  2 weekenders - one for my pack and on for my wife's (Luna 70). I
                  didn't like the weight distribution in my pack of the fully loaded
                  expedition when positioning it vertically. So, I traded it back
                  (rental) for 2 weekenders - one for me and one for the wife!! (OK, so
                  I took the tent and some other items to make it a fair swap).


                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "hewhohikesalot"
                  <hewhohikes@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm thinking of doing a ten day trip on the JMT and was wondering
                  what
                  > kind of backpack to get that would be big enough to contain a
                  > expedition bearikade (14" long and 9" round). I'm looking for
                  > something reasonably light and about 3000+ cubic inches in volume.
                  Any
                  > advice would be appreciated.
                  > Thanks.
                  >
                • Roleigh Martin
                  Fred, your Waypoints Spreadsheet is fantastic. Looks on the surface like you followed the 21 day plan of Cicerone. What happened regarding dates of each
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 2 6:32 PM
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                    Fred, your Waypoints Spreadsheet is fantastic.

                    Looks on the surface like you followed the 21 day plan of Cicerone.

                    What happened regarding dates of each campsight? After 6/14/2007, the next date is labeled "3". Then there is another date labeled "5 6". Care to elucidate?

                    Did you do the whole hike in one year or two years (split up to explain the date enumeration change)?

                    My only beaf with the Vapor Trail is the lack of stays but I figured out how to put stays in them making the pack about 2'10oz -- a little lighter than the 3lb Ozone. It definitely is a prime candidate for my hike.

                    Did you ever use the Ice Axe or if going in Late July thru mid August would you skip the Ice Axe? I saw you never used the crampons. I do have two hiking poles to help in snow, ice, etc.


                    Fred Sharples <fred@...> wrote: Yes, the canister will only fit vertically in that pack.
                    I had a sleeping bag underneath the canister.
                    I had various clothing on the sides and a plastic origami(flat) dinner bowl
                    on the rear outside top edge to keep it from chafing.
                    It wound up chafing some but I also had an ice axe because it was early
                    June..That caused most of the chafing against the canister.

                    You can check out a super detailed pack list with weights in oz here..
                    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4CfkufA0dTnkIUlma_JYVw

                    I thought it was a great setup and I would do it again with the same pack
                    and canister.
                    It's my favorite pack ever. It was probably the most popular pack on the PCT
                    last year.
                    Many people bought them after a few hundred miles of dealing with home made
                    and other packs.
                    (I'm not a rep of granite gear but I must sound like one ;))
                    As far as canisters go, you might be able to get away with their smaller
                    version for 10 days solo. That big one is big.

                    have a great trip.
                    -quake

                    On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:

                    > Fred, can you please detail very specifically how you packed your
                    > backpack with the Expedition? I presume you had it positioned vertically
                    > (sitting at the bottom of the pack or if not, what was beneath it)? What did
                    > you have to the left and right side of the cannister in your bag? Was there
                    > anything on the pad-foam side of the pack (between it and the cannister)?
                    > Was there anything on the farthest-from-skin rear-fabric (between it and the
                    > cannister)? What was your base pack weight (total weight including
                    > everything but water and food that is inside the cannister or inside the
                    > pack but do include the weight of the cannister)? Thanks!
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    Orange Design Inc.
                    Games - Tech - Art
                    2601 Mission Street #800
                    San Francisco, CA 94110
                    415.643.4465 - Studio
                    415.722.6442 - Mobile
                    http://orangedesign.com

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Kevin Aston
                    I like it too Fred. Looks just like the one on my website at http://kevinaston.com/JMTSpreadsheet.html ... the next date is labeled 3 . Then there is another
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 3 6:02 PM
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                      I like it too Fred. Looks just like the one on my website at
                      http://kevinaston.com/JMTSpreadsheet.html

                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Fred, your Waypoints Spreadsheet is fantastic.
                      >
                      > Looks on the surface like you followed the 21 day plan of Cicerone.
                      >
                      > What happened regarding dates of each campsight? After 6/14/2007,
                      the next date is labeled "3". Then there is another date labeled "5
                      6". Care to elucidate?
                      >
                      > Did you do the whole hike in one year or two years (split up to
                      explain the date enumeration change)?
                      >
                      > My only beaf with the Vapor Trail is the lack of stays but I figured
                      out how to put stays in them making the pack about 2'10oz -- a little
                      lighter than the 3lb Ozone. It definitely is a prime candidate for my
                      hike.
                      >
                      > Did you ever use the Ice Axe or if going in Late July thru mid
                      August would you skip the Ice Axe? I saw you never used the crampons.
                      I do have two hiking poles to help in snow, ice, etc.
                      >
                      >
                      > Fred Sharples <fred@...> wrote: Yes, the
                      canister will only fit vertically in that pack.
                      > I had a sleeping bag underneath the canister.
                      > I had various clothing on the sides and a plastic origami(flat)
                      dinner bowl
                      > on the rear outside top edge to keep it from chafing.
                      > It wound up chafing some but I also had an ice axe because it was early
                      > June..That caused most of the chafing against the canister.
                      >
                      > You can check out a super detailed pack list with weights in oz here..
                      > http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4CfkufA0dTnkIUlma_JYVw
                      >
                      > I thought it was a great setup and I would do it again with the
                      same pack
                      > and canister.
                      > It's my favorite pack ever. It was probably the most popular pack
                      on the PCT
                      > last year.
                      > Many people bought them after a few hundred miles of dealing with
                      home made
                      > and other packs.
                      > (I'm not a rep of granite gear but I must sound like one ;))
                      > As far as canisters go, you might be able to get away with their
                      smaller
                      > version for 10 days solo. That big one is big.
                      >
                      > have a great trip.
                      > -quake
                      >
                      > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Fred, can you please detail very specifically how you packed your
                      > > backpack with the Expedition? I presume you had it positioned
                      vertically
                      > > (sitting at the bottom of the pack or if not, what was beneath
                      it)? What did
                      > > you have to the left and right side of the cannister in your bag?
                      Was there
                      > > anything on the pad-foam side of the pack (between it and the
                      cannister)?
                      > > Was there anything on the farthest-from-skin rear-fabric (between
                      it and the
                      > > cannister)? What was your base pack weight (total weight including
                      > > everything but water and food that is inside the cannister or
                      inside the
                      > > pack but do include the weight of the cannister)? Thanks!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Orange Design Inc.
                      > Games - Tech - Art
                      > 2601 Mission Street #800
                      > San Francisco, CA 94110
                      > 415.643.4465 - Studio
                      > 415.722.6442 - Mobile
                      > http://orangedesign.com
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Fred Sharples
                      Yes, it s true, those are a copy of Kevin s waypoints! I edited Kevin s waypoints and added them to a google spreadsheet as a tab on the far edge of the doc. I
                      Message 10 of 18 , Apr 3 10:44 PM
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                        Yes, it's true, those are a copy of Kevin's waypoints!

                        I edited Kevin's waypoints and added them to a google spreadsheet as a tab
                        on the far edge of the doc. I didn't mean to 'publish' them as mine. (I
                        didn't know they were going up in this doc) So now I see it is a reference
                        without credit and for that I apologize to Kevin.

                        The Google Earth file that I created and edited using Kevin's waypoints is
                        on Kevin's site and mine too.
                        http://kevinaston.com/files/JMT.KMZ

                        To everyone on this list: Kevin has been a huge help to all of us on the
                        list and by no means do I want to take credit for all the hard work Kevin
                        has done putting the waypoints together.

                        Kevin has advised me with some of the planning of my trip and I really
                        treasure his thoughtful posts here on the list and his commitment to the
                        trail.

                        Also, please don't depend on my version of the waypoints or my Google Earth
                        file for on-the-trail navigation. I edited them to work with Google Earth
                        and not for use on the ground.

                        PS Kevin, I put a credit and disclaimer up there.
                        Let me me know if that's ok.
                        Your friend,
                        Fred(Quake)


                        On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Kevin Aston <kevin@...> wrote:

                        > I like it too Fred. Looks just like the one on my website at
                        > http://kevinaston.com/JMTSpreadsheet.html
                        >
                        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com <johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Fred, your Waypoints Spreadsheet is fantastic.
                        > >
                        > > Looks on the surface like you followed the 21 day plan of Cicerone.
                        > >
                        > > What happened regarding dates of each campsight? After 6/14/2007,
                        > the next date is labeled "3". Then there is another date labeled "5
                        > 6". Care to elucidate?
                        > >
                        > > Did you do the whole hike in one year or two years (split up to
                        > explain the date enumeration change)?
                        > >
                        > > My only beaf with the Vapor Trail is the lack of stays but I figured
                        > out how to put stays in them making the pack about 2'10oz -- a little
                        > lighter than the 3lb Ozone. It definitely is a prime candidate for my
                        > hike.
                        > >
                        > > Did you ever use the Ice Axe or if going in Late July thru mid
                        > August would you skip the Ice Axe? I saw you never used the crampons.
                        > I do have two hiking poles to help in snow, ice, etc.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Fred Sharples <fred@...> wrote: Yes, the
                        > canister will only fit vertically in that pack.
                        > > I had a sleeping bag underneath the canister.
                        > > I had various clothing on the sides and a plastic origami(flat)
                        > dinner bowl
                        > > on the rear outside top edge to keep it from chafing.
                        > > It wound up chafing some but I also had an ice axe because it was early
                        > > June..That caused most of the chafing against the canister.
                        > >
                        > > You can check out a super detailed pack list with weights in oz here..
                        > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4CfkufA0dTnkIUlma_JYVw
                        > >
                        > > I thought it was a great setup and I would do it again with the
                        > same pack
                        > > and canister.
                        > > It's my favorite pack ever. It was probably the most popular pack
                        > on the PCT
                        > > last year.
                        > > Many people bought them after a few hundred miles of dealing with
                        > home made
                        > > and other packs.
                        > > (I'm not a rep of granite gear but I must sound like one ;))
                        > > As far as canisters go, you might be able to get away with their
                        > smaller
                        > > version for 10 days solo. That big one is big.
                        > >
                        > > have a great trip.
                        > > -quake
                        > >
                        > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Fred, can you please detail very specifically how you packed your
                        > > > backpack with the Expedition? I presume you had it positioned
                        > vertically
                        > > > (sitting at the bottom of the pack or if not, what was beneath
                        > it)? What did
                        > > > you have to the left and right side of the cannister in your bag?
                        > Was there
                        > > > anything on the pad-foam side of the pack (between it and the
                        > cannister)?
                        > > > Was there anything on the farthest-from-skin rear-fabric (between
                        > it and the
                        > > > cannister)? What was your base pack weight (total weight including
                        > > > everything but water and food that is inside the cannister or
                        > inside the
                        > > > pack but do include the weight of the cannister)? Thanks!
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Orange Design Inc.
                        > > Games - Tech - Art
                        > > 2601 Mission Street #800
                        > > San Francisco, CA 94110
                        > > 415.643.4465 - Studio
                        > > 415.722.6442 - Mobile
                        > > http://orangedesign.com
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        --
                        Orange Design Inc.
                        Games - Tech - Art
                        2601 Mission Street #800
                        San Francisco, CA 94110
                        415.643.4465 - Studio
                        415.722.6442 - Mobile
                        http://orangedesign.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Kevin Aston
                        No Problem Fred. I did not create the list of places, distances, and altitudes, I borrowed them from somebody s log about 3 1/2 years ago, I don t know where I
                        Message 11 of 18 , Apr 5 2:39 PM
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                          No Problem Fred. I did not create the list of places, distances, and
                          altitudes, I borrowed them from somebody's log about 3 1/2 years ago,
                          I don't know where I got them. I came up with the Waypoints using
                          Garmin's MapSource. As I was following them on the real trail, I found
                          that some were right on, others were a hundred yards off. I am sure
                          some of that was the accuracy of my Rino 530, but much of it was my
                          looks good placement of the waypoints, and the actual accuracy of the
                          software. MapSource had several errors I found as I hiked. My weakness
                          in choosing equipment is my desire for electronic gadgets on the
                          trip. Between camera, lens, hand-held radio, GPS, electronic water
                          purifier, batteries, and cel-phone to call from the top of Whitney I
                          load myself down an extra couple of pounds. However my water Purifier
                          the MSR MIOX Water Purifier, weighs a lot less than a pump, so that is
                          not really an extra.

                          Planning is almost as fun as hiking.
                          Kevin Aston

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Sharples" <fred@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Yes, it's true, those are a copy of Kevin's waypoints!
                          >
                          > I edited Kevin's waypoints and added them to a google spreadsheet as
                          a tab
                          > on the far edge of the doc. I didn't mean to 'publish' them as mine. (I
                          > didn't know they were going up in this doc) So now I see it is a
                          reference
                          > without credit and for that I apologize to Kevin.
                          >
                          > The Google Earth file that I created and edited using Kevin's
                          waypoints is
                          > on Kevin's site and mine too.
                          > http://kevinaston.com/files/JMT.KMZ
                          >
                          > To everyone on this list: Kevin has been a huge help to all of us on the
                          > list and by no means do I want to take credit for all the hard work
                          Kevin
                          > has done putting the waypoints together.
                          >
                          > Kevin has advised me with some of the planning of my trip and I really
                          > treasure his thoughtful posts here on the list and his commitment to the
                          > trail.
                          >
                          > Also, please don't depend on my version of the waypoints or my
                          Google Earth
                          > file for on-the-trail navigation. I edited them to work with Google
                          Earth
                          > and not for use on the ground.
                          >
                          > PS Kevin, I put a credit and disclaimer up there.
                          > Let me me know if that's ok.
                          > Your friend,
                          > Fred(Quake)
                          >
                          >
                          > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Kevin Aston <kevin@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > I like it too Fred. Looks just like the one on my website at
                          > > http://kevinaston.com/JMTSpreadsheet.html
                          > >
                          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                          <johnmuirtrail%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > > Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Fred, your Waypoints Spreadsheet is fantastic.
                          > > >
                          > > > Looks on the surface like you followed the 21 day plan of Cicerone.
                          > > >
                          > > > What happened regarding dates of each campsight? After 6/14/2007,
                          > > the next date is labeled "3". Then there is another date labeled "5
                          > > 6". Care to elucidate?
                          > > >
                          > > > Did you do the whole hike in one year or two years (split up to
                          > > explain the date enumeration change)?
                          > > >
                          > > > My only beaf with the Vapor Trail is the lack of stays but I figured
                          > > out how to put stays in them making the pack about 2'10oz -- a little
                          > > lighter than the 3lb Ozone. It definitely is a prime candidate for my
                          > > hike.
                          > > >
                          > > > Did you ever use the Ice Axe or if going in Late July thru mid
                          > > August would you skip the Ice Axe? I saw you never used the crampons.
                          > > I do have two hiking poles to help in snow, ice, etc.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Fred Sharples <fred@> wrote: Yes, the
                          > > canister will only fit vertically in that pack.
                          > > > I had a sleeping bag underneath the canister.
                          > > > I had various clothing on the sides and a plastic origami(flat)
                          > > dinner bowl
                          > > > on the rear outside top edge to keep it from chafing.
                          > > > It wound up chafing some but I also had an ice axe because it
                          was early
                          > > > June..That caused most of the chafing against the canister.
                          > > >
                          > > > You can check out a super detailed pack list with weights in oz
                          here..
                          > > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4CfkufA0dTnkIUlma_JYVw
                          > > >
                          > > > I thought it was a great setup and I would do it again with the
                          > > same pack
                          > > > and canister.
                          > > > It's my favorite pack ever. It was probably the most popular pack
                          > > on the PCT
                          > > > last year.
                          > > > Many people bought them after a few hundred miles of dealing with
                          > > home made
                          > > > and other packs.
                          > > > (I'm not a rep of granite gear but I must sound like one ;))
                          > > > As far as canisters go, you might be able to get away with their
                          > > smaller
                          > > > version for 10 days solo. That big one is big.
                          > > >
                          > > > have a great trip.
                          > > > -quake
                          > > >
                          > > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > Fred, can you please detail very specifically how you packed your
                          > > > > backpack with the Expedition? I presume you had it positioned
                          > > vertically
                          > > > > (sitting at the bottom of the pack or if not, what was beneath
                          > > it)? What did
                          > > > > you have to the left and right side of the cannister in your bag?
                          > > Was there
                          > > > > anything on the pad-foam side of the pack (between it and the
                          > > cannister)?
                          > > > > Was there anything on the farthest-from-skin rear-fabric (between
                          > > it and the
                          > > > > cannister)? What was your base pack weight (total weight including
                          > > > > everything but water and food that is inside the cannister or
                          > > inside the
                          > > > > pack but do include the weight of the cannister)? Thanks!
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --
                          > > > Orange Design Inc.
                          > > > Games - Tech - Art
                          > > > 2601 Mission Street #800
                          > > > San Francisco, CA 94110
                          > > > 415.643.4465 - Studio
                          > > > 415.722.6442 - Mobile
                          > > > http://orangedesign.com
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Orange Design Inc.
                          > Games - Tech - Art
                          > 2601 Mission Street #800
                          > San Francisco, CA 94110
                          > 415.643.4465 - Studio
                          > 415.722.6442 - Mobile
                          > http://orangedesign.com
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • beemancron
                          My favorite packs are made by Gossamer Gear. Three years ago, I used a Mariposa Plus and an Expedition on a 9 day scout trip. The challenge was not so much as
                          Message 12 of 18 , Apr 5 3:19 PM
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                            My favorite packs are made by Gossamer Gear. Three years ago, I used a Mariposa Plus
                            and an Expedition on a 9 day scout trip. The challenge was not so much as how the
                            Expedition fit in the pack (Vertical) but how to pack 9 days of food into 900 cuin. Teaching
                            this skill to scouts was also a challenge. :)

                            On my JMT thru hike this year, leaving July 13, I am using the same Mariposa Plus and a
                            Bearvault 400. I have a choice of strapping it on top of the pack or storing vertical inside
                            the pack. With the options of multiple resupply locations: Reds, VVR, Muir Ranch, I just
                            don't see a need to carry 9 days of food in 900 cuins. Too much weight!

                            My newly adopted thru-hiker slogan: "When the weight goes down, the fun goes up" :)

                            Beeman

                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "hewhohikesalot" <hewhohikes@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I'm thinking of doing a ten day trip on the JMT and was wondering what
                            > kind of backpack to get that would be big enough to contain a
                            > expedition bearikade (14" long and 9" round). I'm looking for
                            > something reasonably light and about 3000+ cubic inches in volume. Any
                            > advice would be appreciated.
                            > Thanks.
                            >
                          • rambler4466
                            I use the pack made by Moonbow Gear. This pack will easily accomadte a Bear Canister either horizontally or vertically. I carry my gear in three nylon dry
                            Message 13 of 18 , Apr 11 7:54 AM
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                              I use the pack made by Moonbow Gear. This pack will easily accomadte a Bear Canister
                              either horizontally or vertically. I carry my gear in three nylon dry bags from Camp Inn.
                              Two are 10 L bags for clothes, gear, and sleeping bag. One is 19L for food. The food bag
                              will be replaced by the canister when hiking the JMT. If two bags are equal in weight, I
                              pack two vertically with the sleeping bag horizontal across the top.
                              Otherwise I carry all three horizontal with the heaviest bag (canister) (food) in the middle.
                              My sleeping bag (homemade quilt) is down, so I like it on top, not on the bottom, so it will
                              not be crushed or compacted. The pack has a mesh pocket on the outside for a tarp,
                              raingear and misc.

                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I have the Expedition cannister myself and will be on the JMT for 16-17 days this
                              summer. I will be comparing the use of this cannister with a variety of pack options
                              myself:
                              >
                              > 1. with a Granite Gear Ozone (3 pounds)
                              > 2. with a Granite Gear Vapor Trail (2 pounds)
                              > 3. with a LuxuryLite Frame Backpack (weighs under 2 pounds)
                              > 4. with a Osprey Aether 60 pack
                              > 5. with a SixMoonDesigns's Starlight pack (weighs under 2 pounds)
                              >
                              > The only one of the five above that it fits horizontally is on the LuxuryLite pack, the
                              others it has to stack vertically in the bag which is a bummer, as there is slack space
                              around the cylinder and what do you stack alongside the cylinder as you kind of want the
                              cylinder to be dead center in pack (centered left-to-right that is).
                              >
                              > I don't know at this point which one I'm going to like best with the cylinder.
                              >
                              > I know that Dan McHale makes custom packs that can fit the Expedition Cannister
                              horizontally in the pack and the pack comes in under 3 pounds. That is another option
                              but you have to get your order in very fast if you want it done for 2008.
                              >
                              > I'm anxious to find out which is going to work best. I'll be doing 2 day weekend hikes
                              discovering which option I like the best and will update the list with my findings.
                              >
                              >
                              > Drew <drew@...> wrote:
                              > I am set to thru hike in Aug, and was wondering the same thing. Right
                              > now my plan is to carry the same Bearikade, and use a Granite Gear
                              > Vapor Trail.
                              >
                              > Some specs can be found here
                              >
                              > Vapor Trail from Granite Gear
                              > <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/vapor_trail/in\
                              > dex.html>
                              >
                              > I have both it and the Alpine Vapor -for use in the winter snowshoeing..
                              > So. I figure I might as well use what I have. After reading several
                              > reviews and trail summaries it appears many a thru hiker are using the
                              > Vapor Trail. My only real concern is how the bear can will fit/ride. I
                              > have not received my order as of yet.
                              >
                              > I also looked at a couple of others, but I am sure the list goes on and
                              > on. you may get soem ideas from the 2008 gear guide from Backpacker
                              > magazine.
                              >
                              > Nimbus Ozone from Granite Gear
                              > <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/nimbus_ozone/i\
                              > ndex.html>
                              > Golite Pinnacle
                              > <http://www.golite.com/Product/proddetail.aspx?p=PA5252&s=1>
                              >
                              > Drew
                              >
                              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "hewhohikesalot" <hewhohikes@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I'm thinking of doing a ten day trip on the JMT and was wondering what
                              > > kind of backpack to get that would be big enough to contain a
                              > > expedition bearikade (14" long and 9" round). I'm looking for
                              > > something reasonably light and about 3000+ cubic inches in volume.
                              > Any
                              > > advice would be appreciated.
                              > > Thanks.
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Steve Schauer
                              We used the Osprey Aether 70 (steve) and Ariel 65 Claire) for our thru-hike. The most comfortable pack we ve ever had! Claire ...
                              Message 14 of 18 , Apr 11 12:26 PM
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                                We used the Osprey Aether 70 (steve) and Ariel 65
                                Claire) for our thru-hike. The most comfortable pack
                                we've ever had!
                                Claire
                                --- rambler4466 <rambler4466@...> wrote:

                                > I use the pack made by Moonbow Gear. This pack will
                                > easily accomadte a Bear Canister
                                > either horizontally or vertically. I carry my gear
                                > in three nylon dry bags from Camp Inn.
                                > Two are 10 L bags for clothes, gear, and sleeping
                                > bag. One is 19L for food. The food bag
                                > will be replaced by the canister when hiking the
                                > JMT. If two bags are equal in weight, I
                                > pack two vertically with the sleeping bag
                                > horizontal across the top.
                                > Otherwise I carry all three horizontal with the
                                > heaviest bag (canister) (food) in the middle.
                                > My sleeping bag (homemade quilt) is down, so I like
                                > it on top, not on the bottom, so it will
                                > not be crushed or compacted. The pack has a mesh
                                > pocket on the outside for a tarp,
                                > raingear and misc.
                                >
                                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin
                                > <roleigh@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I have the Expedition cannister myself and will be
                                > on the JMT for 16-17 days this
                                > summer. I will be comparing the use of this
                                > cannister with a variety of pack options
                                > myself:
                                > >
                                > > 1. with a Granite Gear Ozone (3 pounds)
                                > > 2. with a Granite Gear Vapor Trail (2 pounds)
                                > > 3. with a LuxuryLite Frame Backpack (weighs
                                > under 2 pounds)
                                > > 4. with a Osprey Aether 60 pack
                                > > 5. with a SixMoonDesigns's Starlight pack
                                > (weighs under 2 pounds)
                                > >
                                > > The only one of the five above that it fits
                                > horizontally is on the LuxuryLite pack, the
                                > others it has to stack vertically in the bag which
                                > is a bummer, as there is slack space
                                > around the cylinder and what do you stack alongside
                                > the cylinder as you kind of want the
                                > cylinder to be dead center in pack (centered
                                > left-to-right that is).
                                > >
                                > > I don't know at this point which one I'm going
                                > to like best with the cylinder.
                                > >
                                > > I know that Dan McHale makes custom packs that
                                > can fit the Expedition Cannister
                                > horizontally in the pack and the pack comes in under
                                > 3 pounds. That is another option
                                > but you have to get your order in very fast if you
                                > want it done for 2008.
                                > >
                                > > I'm anxious to find out which is going to work
                                > best. I'll be doing 2 day weekend hikes
                                > discovering which option I like the best and will
                                > update the list with my findings.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Drew <drew@...> wrote:
                                > > I am set to thru hike in Aug, and was
                                > wondering the same thing. Right
                                > > now my plan is to carry the same Bearikade, and
                                > use a Granite Gear
                                > > Vapor Trail.
                                > >
                                > > Some specs can be found here
                                > >
                                > > Vapor Trail from Granite Gear
                                > >
                                >
                                <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/vapor_trail/in\
                                > > dex.html>
                                > >
                                > > I have both it and the Alpine Vapor -for use in
                                > the winter snowshoeing..
                                > > So. I figure I might as well use what I have.
                                > After reading several
                                > > reviews and trail summaries it appears many a thru
                                > hiker are using the
                                > > Vapor Trail. My only real concern is how the bear
                                > can will fit/ride. I
                                > > have not received my order as of yet.
                                > >
                                > > I also looked at a couple of others, but I am sure
                                > the list goes on and
                                > > on. you may get soem ideas from the 2008 gear
                                > guide from Backpacker
                                > > magazine.
                                > >
                                > > Nimbus Ozone from Granite Gear
                                > >
                                >
                                <http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/nimbus_ozone/i\
                                > > ndex.html>
                                > > Golite Pinnacle
                                > >
                                >
                                <http://www.golite.com/Product/proddetail.aspx?p=PA5252&s=1>
                                > >
                                > > Drew
                                > >
                                > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com,
                                > "hewhohikesalot" <hewhohikes@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > I'm thinking of doing a ten day trip on the JMT
                                > and was wondering what
                                > > > kind of backpack to get that would be big enough
                                > to contain a
                                > > > expedition bearikade (14" long and 9" round).
                                > I'm looking for
                                > > > something reasonably light and about 3000+ cubic
                                > inches in volume.
                                > > Any
                                > > > advice would be appreciated.
                                > > > Thanks.
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Patronio@aol.com
                                I stand behind Osprey packs 100%. I do have an Aether 70 and 60 and are extremely comfortable. I highly recommend them. [Non-text portions of this message have
                                Message 15 of 18 , Apr 15 11:57 PM
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                                  I stand behind Osprey packs 100%. I do have an Aether 70 and 60 and are extremely comfortable. I highly recommend them.


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • targetdoggmechanic
                                  Ditto to that one. For the price they are one of the best packs I have ever used. Gotta love the thermoformed belt that REI can custom fit to your waist.
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Apr 18 7:48 PM
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                                    Ditto to that one. For the price they are one of the best packs I have
                                    ever used. Gotta love the thermoformed belt that REI can custom fit to
                                    your waist. Did the JMT last year and it performed flawlessly. Gonna
                                    buy my fiancee one this year for her b-day.

                                    Dogg

                                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Patronio@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I stand behind Osprey packs 100%. I do have an Aether 70 and 60 and
                                    are extremely comfortable. I highly recommend them.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Barbara Karagosian
                                    Hi Fred - How did you find the Virga? I have one, and wore it in the shower as a test and got a wet patch on the front - maybe leaked thru or next to the
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Aug 4, 2008
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                                      Hi Fred - How did you find the Virga? I have one, and wore it in the shower
                                      as a test and got a wet patch on the front - maybe leaked thru or next to
                                      the zipper. Did you have it in any downpours? How was the hood? Thanks in
                                      advance - Barbara


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