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Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: wag bags

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  • Kim Fishburn
    Flying to the top of Mt Whitney isn t easy for a helicopter. They usually call out the California national guard since they have some choppers with more power.
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 2, 2011
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      Flying to the top of Mt Whitney isn't easy for a helicopter. They usually call out the California national guard since they have some choppers with more power. I've seen Marine helicopters fly over Sonora Pass before( I think its about 9600 ft for the pass). According to FAA regs they can do this without using oxygen since they're only above 10,000 ft for a short time. I don't remember what the requirements are.


      From: Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...>
      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 4:29 PM
      Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: wag bags

       
      It became a matter of preventing loss of life when they decided to abandon the Solar Privy at the basecamp for Mt. Whitney.  It was written up in the NY Times, I remember.  They'd use a helicopter to do the job and sometimes the landing and takeoff became too risky. 

      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/us/05whitney.html

      "High-altitude sanitation is too hazardous a business. Helicopters must make regular journeys up the steep-walled canyons in tricky winds while rangers in hazmat suits wait below to tie 250-pound bags or barrels of waste onto a long line dangling below the aircraft. "

      "In the past, keeping the privies on the eastern side of the Inyo National Forest clean between helicopter flights was a huge headache."

      "
      “If you didn’t clean the outhouse regularly, it was a cascading nightmare,” said Garry Oye, the Inyo National Forest district ranger who put the new Whitney regimen into place.
      But with 300 or more people on the trail each day, it was hard to do. “Can you keep your bathroom clean if 400 of your closest friends go through there each day?” Mr. Oye asked."


      On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 4:10 PM, judithsmcguire <judithsmcguire@...> wrote:
       

      I agree that for me a privy would be better but who gets to maintain and clean out the privy? Solar privies are great in concept but often don't work as intended. On the Wonderland Trail this year (granted all but one weren't solar) there are privies at every campsite. I was really happy with this until we saw a Park Ranger humping out a barrel of human waste he had dug out of one of the privies. My convenience was his disgusting burden. Is this fair? Why can't people learn to practice Leave No Trace! Selfishness creates a public nuisance.

      Judy McGuire

      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Schultz" <hikesierranevada@...> wrote:
      >
      > Some percentage of people will just not comply with a pack-out poop program, no not matter what. Its just human nature when humans are in nature. There will be bags on the trail and poop behind rocks.
      >
      > You might prefer a wag bag over a cat hole, but if you had a choice of using a solar powered toilet with privacy and hand sanitizer, would you still choose a wag bag and then carry an extra pound of crap in your backpack? I think not, but the wag bag option is always available to anyone even if they reinstalled the toilets.
      >
      >
      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "judithsmcguire" <judithsmcguire@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I hate to be a party pooper (I couldn't resist) but I LIKE the wag bags. So much less trouble than finding the right spot, digging a hole the right depth, stuffing used TP in a ziplok, and packing that out. Last year I was happy to use the wag bag on my way down from Whitney as I finished the JMT. What I DIDN'T enjoy was seeing someone else's wag bag by the side of the trail. Normally I pick up litter but I was NOT going to carry out that litter. Where do some people get their manners?
      > > Judy McGuire
      > >
      >




    • Jgoring1
      Red herring. Packing it all out via mule or llama would be safer and cheaper than the helicopter. Via iPad ... Red herring. Packing it all out via mule or
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 2, 2011
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        Red herring.  Packing it all out via mule or llama would be safer and cheaper than the helicopter.

        Via iPad

      • John Ladd
        ... Others will know this better than I, but I would guess that snow and ice would make the trail from Whitney Portal to the summit impassible for pack animals
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 3, 2011
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          On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Jgoring1 <jgoring1@...> wrote:
           

          Red herring.  Packing it all out via mule or llama would be safer and cheaper than the helicopter.


          Others will know this better than I, but I would guess that snow and ice would make the trail from Whitney Portal to the summit impassible for pack animals 9 or more months per year.

          John Ladd
        • John
          Not to mention the not so insignificant trail impact and safety issues involved with packing (especially on such a busy trail). It s not necessarily cheaper
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 3, 2011
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            Not to mention the not so insignificant trail impact and safety issues involved with packing (especially on such a busy trail). It's not necessarily cheaper either.

            Cheapest and safest way to get it out of the backcountry; have the people pack it out.

            JD
            Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
            www.johndittli.com


            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
            >
            > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Jgoring1 <jgoring1@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > Red herring. Packing it all out via mule or llama would be safer and
            > > cheaper than the helicopter.
            > >
            > >
            > Others will know this better than I, but I would guess that snow and ice
            > would make the trail from Whitney Portal to the summit impassible for pack
            > animals 9 or more months per year.
            >
            > John Ladd
            >
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