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Re: [John Muir Trail] Rumor re Half Dome access - anyone else heard this?

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  • John Ladd
    I strongly suggest you print this, and carry it with you, if you hope to use your JMT thru-hike permit to go up Half Dome: It permits both SoBo and NoBo JMT
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 13, 2011
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      I strongly suggest you print this, and carry it with you, if you hope
      to use your JMT thru-hike permit to go up Half Dome: It permits both
      SoBo and NoBo JMT hikers to go up Half Dome WITHOUT needing a separate
      Half Dome permit. Some Rangers have apparently not understood this.

      ---------- Forwarded message ----------
      From: <YOSE_Web_Manager@...>
      Date: Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:29 PM
      Subject: Re: From NPS.gov: Inconsistant treatment by different rangers
      on Half Dome use by thru-hikers
      To: JohnLadd@...


      I just double-checked with the wilderness office to ensure the
      information is accurate.

      Anyone with a Yosemite wilderness permit that includes Half Dome as
      part of the itinerary (this includes anyone starting at Happy Isles or
      heading into Little Yosemite Valley) receives Half Dome permits, as
      well. A Yosemite wilderness permit on its own is not valid for the
      Half Dome cables.

      Anyone with a permit issued outside Yosemite but that ends at Happy
      Isles or otherwise includes Half Dome as the itinerary can use that
      non-Yosemite wilderness permit to use the Half Dome cables. (This does
      not include PCTA through permits because Half Dome is not along the
      PCT.)

      I'll also make sure the rangers in that area are aware.

      Jeffrey

      National Park Service
      Yosemite National Park
      http://www.nps.gov/yose/
    • Emily Yi
      Thank you. Emily -sent from my Google Nexus One
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 14, 2011
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        Thank you.

        Emily
        -sent from my Google Nexus One

        John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:

        >I strongly suggest you print this, and carry it with you, if you hope
        >to use your JMT thru-hike permit to go up Half Dome: It permits both
        >SoBo and NoBo JMT hikers to go up Half Dome WITHOUT needing a separate
        >Half Dome permit. Some Rangers have apparently not understood this.
        >
        >---------- Forwarded message ----------
        >From: <YOSE_Web_Manager@...>
        >Date: Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:29 PM
        >Subject: Re: From NPS.gov: Inconsistant treatment by different rangers
        >on Half Dome use by thru-hikers
        >To: JohnLadd@...
        >
        >
        >I just double-checked with the wilderness office to ensure the
        >information is accurate.
        >
        >Anyone with a Yosemite wilderness permit that includes Half Dome as
        >part of the itinerary (this includes anyone starting at Happy Isles or
        >heading into Little Yosemite Valley) receives Half Dome permits, as
        >well. A Yosemite wilderness permit on its own is not valid for the
        >Half Dome cables.
        >
        >Anyone with a permit issued outside Yosemite but that ends at Happy
        >Isles or otherwise includes Half Dome as the itinerary can use that
        >non-Yosemite wilderness permit to use the Half Dome cables. (This does
        >not include PCTA through permits because Half Dome is not along the
        >PCT.)
        >
        >I'll also make sure the rangers in that area are aware.
        >
        >Jeffrey
        >
        >National Park Service
        >Yosemite National Park
        >http://www.nps.gov/yose/
      • Mark Schultz
        Jeffrey, Three other groups of people that we talked with all mentioned Ranger McCarthy s aggressive attitude while checking their permits on the trail. In
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 14, 2011
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          Jeffrey,

          Three other groups of people that we talked with all mentioned Ranger McCarthy's aggressive attitude while checking their permits on the trail. In the words of Cody from Dual Survivor, its a buzzkill. Please have a talk with him about finding a more effective balance between necessary law enforcement and enjoying the wilderness adventure.

          Thanks

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Emily Yi <emily_yi2004@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thank you.
          >
          > Emily
          > -sent from my Google Nexus One
          >
          > John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
          >
          > >I strongly suggest you print this, and carry it with you, if you hope
          > >to use your JMT thru-hike permit to go up Half Dome: It permits both
          > >SoBo and NoBo JMT hikers to go up Half Dome WITHOUT needing a separate
          > >Half Dome permit. Some Rangers have apparently not understood this.
          > >
          > >---------- Forwarded message ----------
          > >From: <YOSE_Web_Manager@...>
          > >Date: Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:29 PM
          > >Subject: Re: From NPS.gov: Inconsistant treatment by different rangers
          > >on Half Dome use by thru-hikers
          > >To: JohnLadd@...
          > >
          > >
          > >I just double-checked with the wilderness office to ensure the
          > >information is accurate.
          > >
          > >Anyone with a Yosemite wilderness permit that includes Half Dome as
          > >part of the itinerary (this includes anyone starting at Happy Isles or
          > >heading into Little Yosemite Valley) receives Half Dome permits, as
          > >well. A Yosemite wilderness permit on its own is not valid for the
          > >Half Dome cables.
          > >
          > >Anyone with a permit issued outside Yosemite but that ends at Happy
          > >Isles or otherwise includes Half Dome as the itinerary can use that
          > >non-Yosemite wilderness permit to use the Half Dome cables. (This does
          > >not include PCTA through permits because Half Dome is not along the
          > >PCT.)
          > >
          > >I'll also make sure the rangers in that area are aware.
          > >
          > >Jeffrey
          > >
          > >National Park Service
          > >Yosemite National Park
          > >http://www.nps.gov/yose/
          >
        • gkahn21
          No, John you are wrong (well at least partially). Quoting from the email from Jeffrey you listed A Yosemite wilderness permit on its own is not valid for the
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 14, 2011
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            No, John you are wrong (well at least partially). Quoting from the email from Jeffrey you listed "A Yosemite wilderness permit on its own is not valid for the Half Dome cables." I don't know how that can be more clear, but you seem to have missed it. And then "Anyone with a Yosemite wilderness permit that includes Half Dome as part of the itinerary (this includes anyone starting at Happy Isles or heading into Little Yosemite Valley) receives Half Dome permits, as well."

            So if you start from Yosemite, ie SOBO, you will need a separate Half Dome permit which is issued to you when you pick up your wilderness permit, granted half dome is along your trip route.

            If you are starting outside Yosemite, those offices do not have Half Dome permits and therefore can not issue them. So, if you have a wilderness permit from an outlying area, not Yosemite, as long as your wilderness permit itinerary includes Happy Isles or includes Half Dome, then your non-Yosemite wilderness permit allows you to walk up half dome.

            Some hikers have apparently not understood this.

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
            >
            > I strongly suggest you print this, and carry it with you, if you hope
            > to use your JMT thru-hike permit to go up Half Dome: It permits both
            > SoBo and NoBo JMT hikers to go up Half Dome WITHOUT needing a separate
            > Half Dome permit. Some Rangers have apparently not understood this.
            >
            > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
            > From: <YOSE_Web_Manager@...>
            > Date: Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:29 PM
            > Subject: Re: From NPS.gov: Inconsistant treatment by different rangers
            > on Half Dome use by thru-hikers
            > To: JohnLadd@...
            >
            >
            > I just double-checked with the wilderness office to ensure the
            > information is accurate.
            >
            > Anyone with a Yosemite wilderness permit that includes Half Dome as
            > part of the itinerary (this includes anyone starting at Happy Isles or
            > heading into Little Yosemite Valley) receives Half Dome permits, as
            > well. A Yosemite wilderness permit on its own is not valid for the
            > Half Dome cables.
            >
            > Anyone with a permit issued outside Yosemite but that ends at Happy
            > Isles or otherwise includes Half Dome as the itinerary can use that
            > non-Yosemite wilderness permit to use the Half Dome cables. (This does
            > not include PCTA through permits because Half Dome is not along the
            > PCT.)
            >
            > I'll also make sure the rangers in that area are aware.
            >
            > Jeffrey
            >
            > National Park Service
            > Yosemite National Park
            > http://www.nps.gov/yose/
            >
          • Andrew Hassara
            So I have an Agnew Meadows - Happy Isle permit. That means I can do Half Dome without any additional permits?
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 14, 2011
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              So I have an Agnew Meadows -> Happy Isle permit. That means I can do Half Dome without any additional permits?

              On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:27 PM, gkahn21 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
               

              No, John you are wrong (well at least partially). Quoting from the email from Jeffrey you listed "A Yosemite wilderness permit on its own is not valid for the Half Dome cables." I don't know how that can be more clear, but you seem to have missed it. And then "Anyone with a Yosemite wilderness permit that includes Half Dome as part of the itinerary (this includes anyone starting at Happy Isles or heading into Little Yosemite Valley) receives Half Dome permits, as well."

              So if you start from Yosemite, ie SOBO, you will need a separate Half Dome permit which is issued to you when you pick up your wilderness permit, granted half dome is along your trip route.

              If you are starting outside Yosemite, those offices do not have Half Dome permits and therefore can not issue them. So, if you have a wilderness permit from an outlying area, not Yosemite, as long as your wilderness permit itinerary includes Happy Isles or includes Half Dome, then your non-Yosemite wilderness permit allows you to walk up half dome.

              Some hikers have apparently not understood this.



              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
              >
              > I strongly suggest you print this, and carry it with you, if you hope
              > to use your JMT thru-hike permit to go up Half Dome: It permits both
              > SoBo and NoBo JMT hikers to go up Half Dome WITHOUT needing a separate
              > Half Dome permit. Some Rangers have apparently not understood this.
              >
              > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
              > From: <YOSE_Web_Manager@...>
              > Date: Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:29 PM
              > Subject: Re: From NPS.gov: Inconsistant treatment by different rangers
              > on Half Dome use by thru-hikers
              > To: JohnLadd@...
              >
              >
              > I just double-checked with the wilderness office to ensure the
              > information is accurate.
              >
              > Anyone with a Yosemite wilderness permit that includes Half Dome as
              > part of the itinerary (this includes anyone starting at Happy Isles or
              > heading into Little Yosemite Valley) receives Half Dome permits, as
              > well. A Yosemite wilderness permit on its own is not valid for the
              > Half Dome cables.
              >
              > Anyone with a permit issued outside Yosemite but that ends at Happy
              > Isles or otherwise includes Half Dome as the itinerary can use that
              > non-Yosemite wilderness permit to use the Half Dome cables. (This does
              > not include PCTA through permits because Half Dome is not along the
              > PCT.)
              >
              > I'll also make sure the rangers in that area are aware.
              >
              > Jeffrey
              >
              > National Park Service
              > Yosemite National Park
              > http://www.nps.gov/yose/
              >


            • John Ladd
              Sorry - I said that the NPS e-mail permits both SoBo and NoBo JMT hikers to go up Half Dome WITHOUT needing a separate Half Dome permit. I apparently should
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 14, 2011
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                Sorry - I said that the NPS e-mail

                permits both SoBo and NoBo JMT hikers to go up Half Dome WITHOUT needing a separate Half Dome permit.

                I apparently should have said 

                Your SoBo thru-hike permit reservation will entitle you to also pick up a Half Dome permit (outside the usual quota). NoBo hikers simply show their NoBo thru-hike permit at the base of Half Dome.

                I was concentrating, unfortunately, on the final result (you will be permitted to hike Half Dome), and not on the paperwork involved, i.e., not on the "permit" in the physical sense. 

                gkahn21 is correct that two separate documents are apparently needed for the SoBo hikers.  SoBo hikers need to remember to ask for the Half Dome permit when they pick up their thru-permit.  Make sure you leave the Yosemite Valley Wilderness Office with both pieces of paper.

                NoBo hikers can use their NoBo permit at the base of half Dome (i.e., one piece of paper does the trick). 

                Sorry if I caused confusion.  See gkahn21's e-mail and the original NPS e-mail for further clarification.

                In my own defense, I usually read stuff carefully and the extra-piece-of-paper requirement wasn't obvious to me until hkahn21 brought this to my attention.  I still don't understand why the NPS would insist on an extra piece of paper in one direction but not the other -- doesn't seem a logical requirement in either direction.  But if they require two pieces of paper, you better leave the Wilderness Office with both in hand.

                John Curran Ladd
                1616 Castro Street
                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                415-648-9279


                On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM, gkahn21 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                 

                No, John you are wrong (well at least partially). Quoting from the email from Jeffrey you listed "A Yosemite wilderness permit on its own is not valid for the Half Dome cables." I don't know how that can be more clear, but you seem to have missed it. And then "Anyone with a Yosemite wilderness permit that includes Half Dome as part of the itinerary (this includes anyone starting at Happy Isles or heading into Little Yosemite Valley) receives Half Dome permits, as well."

                So if you start from Yosemite, ie SOBO, you will need a separate Half Dome permit which is issued to you when you pick up your wilderness permit, granted half dome is along your trip route.

                If you are starting outside Yosemite, those offices do not have Half Dome permits and therefore can not issue them. So, if you have a wilderness permit from an outlying area, not Yosemite, as long as your wilderness permit itinerary includes Happy Isles or includes Half Dome, then your non-Yosemite wilderness permit allows you to walk up half dome.

                Some hikers have apparently not understood this.



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