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Permit question

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  • km.miley
    Hi again, I m looking into alternative plans for the time I had blocked off (July 6-31st) to do the JMT because I do not feel that my skill level is high
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 29, 2011
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      Hi again,
      I'm looking into alternative plans for the time I had blocked off (July 6-31st) to do the JMT because I do not feel that my skill level is high enough to deal with the snow conditions. My hiking partner and I are looking into hiking other places in CA, but would still like to do Mt. Whitney near the end of July if possible. I know the permits we have reserved for Lyell Canyon would get us all the way through the JMT - if we go pick those up and spend a couple days in that area, and then drive to Lone Pine later in the month, can we still use those permits? My guess is no, but since this was the only permit we needed, I was thinking this could be a loophole...has anyone done this before?

      thanks,
      Kate
    • Roleigh Martin
      Have you thought of doing the PCT 200 miles of Whitney and ending up at Whitney? Book 2 of the PCT covers the entire 527 miles of the High Sierra -
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 29, 2011
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        Have you thought of doing the PCT 200 miles of Whitney and ending up at Whitney?  Book 2 of the PCT covers the entire 527 miles of the High Sierra - http://pacificcresttrailmap.com/pacific-crest-trail-atlas-2/ and it is a packable, 100% useable map of that PCT segment with nearly a map a page.  I have this book and want to do it in 2012.  You'd be best to join the PCT-L list group and ask over there, as I have only done the PCT from Horseshoe Meadows to Tuolumne Meadows which is mostly the JMT portion (minus about 15-20 miles).  But you start at 3800 Feet at Hwy 58 in Tehaqchapi, CA.  It is exactly 200 miles north on the PCT to get to Crabtree Meadow which is where you'd then go up to Guitar Lake then Whitney and then out to Lone Pine.  About the same mileage as the JMT.

        Check out the link above: http://pacificcresttrailmap.com/pacific-crest-trail-atlas-2/

        On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:21 PM, km.miley <kate.m.miley@...> wrote:
         

        Hi again,
        I'm looking into alternative plans for the time I had blocked off (July 6-31st) to do the JMT because I do not feel that my skill level is high enough to deal with the snow conditions. My hiking partner and I are looking into hiking other places in CA, but would still like to do Mt. Whitney near the end of July if possible. I know the permits we have reserved for Lyell Canyon would get us all the way through the JMT - if we go pick those up and spend a couple days in that area, and then drive to Lone Pine later in the month, can we still use those permits? My guess is no, but since this was the only permit we needed, I was thinking this could be a loophole...has anyone done this before?

        thanks,
        Kate


      • Roleigh Martin
        First sentence should have read: Have you thought of doing the PCT 200 miles SOUTH of Whitney and ending up at Whitney?
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 29, 2011
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          First sentence should have read: Have you thought of doing the PCT 200 miles SOUTH of Whitney and ending up at Whitney?

          On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
          Have you thought of doing the PCT 200 miles of Whitney and ending up at Whitney?  Book 2 of the PCT covers the entire 527 miles of the High Sierra - http://pacificcresttrailmap.com/pacific-crest-trail-atlas-2/ and it is a packable, 100% useable map of that PCT segment with nearly a map a page.  I have this book and want to do it in 2012.  You'd be best to join the PCT-L list group and ask over there, as I have only done the PCT from Horseshoe Meadows to Tuolumne Meadows which is mostly the JMT portion (minus about 15-20 miles).  But you start at 3800 Feet at Hwy 58 in Tehaqchapi, CA.  It is exactly 200 miles north on the PCT to get to Crabtree Meadow which is where you'd then go up to Guitar Lake then Whitney and then out to Lone Pine.  About the same mileage as the JMT.

          Check out the link above: http://pacificcresttrailmap.com/pacific-crest-trail-atlas-2/

          On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:21 PM, km.miley <kate.m.miley@...> wrote:
           

          Hi again,
          I'm looking into alternative plans for the time I had blocked off (July 6-31st) to do the JMT because I do not feel that my skill level is high enough to deal with the snow conditions. My hiking partner and I are looking into hiking other places in CA, but would still like to do Mt. Whitney near the end of July if possible. I know the permits we have reserved for Lyell Canyon would get us all the way through the JMT - if we go pick those up and spend a couple days in that area, and then drive to Lone Pine later in the month, can we still use those permits? My guess is no, but since this was the only permit we needed, I was thinking this could be a loophole...has anyone done this before?

          thanks,
          Kate



        • Kate
          Thanks for this suggestion. I ve been looking into it but unfortunately none of the book or out door sporting/gear shops in my area of the country have the
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 1 11:54 PM
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            Thanks for this suggestion. I've been looking into it but unfortunately none of the book or out door sporting/gear shops in my area of the country have the southern or central PCT books so I've been trying to find any relevant info online. Do you think the snow cover/ice on this route as we approach Mt. Whitney in 3 weeks from now will require a lot of technical experience?



            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
            >
            > First sentence should have read: Have you thought of doing the PCT 200 miles
            > SOUTH of Whitney and ending up at Whitney?
            >
            > On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Have you thought of doing the PCT 200 miles of Whitney and ending up at
            > > Whitney? Book 2 of the PCT covers the entire 527 miles of the High Sierra -
            > > http://pacificcresttrailmap.com/pacific-crest-trail-atlas-2/ and it is a
            > > packable, 100% useable map of that PCT segment with nearly a map a page. I
            > > have this book and want to do it in 2012. You'd be best to join the PCT-L
            > > list group and ask over there, as I have only done the PCT from Horseshoe
            > > Meadows to Tuolumne Meadows which is mostly the JMT portion (minus about
            > > 15-20 miles). But you start at 3800 Feet at Hwy 58 in Tehaqchapi, CA. It
            > > is exactly 200 miles north on the PCT to get to Crabtree Meadow which is
            > > where you'd then go up to Guitar Lake then Whitney and then out to Lone
            > > Pine. About the same mileage as the JMT.
            > >
            > > Check out the link above:
            > > http://pacificcresttrailmap.com/pacific-crest-trail-atlas-2/
            > >
            > > On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:21 PM, km.miley <kate.m.miley@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >> **
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> Hi again,
            > >> I'm looking into alternative plans for the time I had blocked off (July
            > >> 6-31st) to do the JMT because I do not feel that my skill level is high
            > >> enough to deal with the snow conditions. My hiking partner and I are looking
            > >> into hiking other places in CA, but would still like to do Mt. Whitney near
            > >> the end of July if possible. I know the permits we have reserved for Lyell
            > >> Canyon would get us all the way through the JMT - if we go pick those up and
            > >> spend a couple days in that area, and then drive to Lone Pine later in the
            > >> month, can we still use those permits? My guess is no, but since this was
            > >> the only permit we needed, I was thinking this could be a loophole...has
            > >> anyone done this before?
            > >>
            > >> thanks,
            > >> Kate
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            >
          • jackskue
            If I start at Mono Meadows, where would be the first night I camp? Illilouette an option? Since LYV and Sunrise Creek seem to be off limits for JMT hikers.
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 6, 2014
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              If I start at Mono Meadows, where would be the first night I camp?  Illilouette an option?  Since LYV and Sunrise Creek seem to be off limits for JMT hikers.  

              Also, would I need to hike past Sunrise Creek/ Merced Lake pass thru the second night or could I camp there?  

              Thanks in advance.  

              Best regards,
              Jackson





            • caohuynh85
              Jackson, I m having the same question as yours. I really want to hike the JMT but we can t apply for the permit starting at Happy Isles. It s impossible to get
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 6, 2014
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                Jackson, I'm having the same question as yours. I really want to hike the JMT but we can't apply for the permit starting at Happy Isles.


                It's impossible to get reservation for TH at Happy Isles for JMT hiker. My application has been rejected 3 times, made more than 20 phone calls - didnt get through, so frustrating. No one know how the permit selection process work. You fax it in and finger crossed, hopefully your name would stand out from the deck. 


                I'm willing to start at Mono Meadows and continue to hike on the JMT trail. I look at the map it's about 9.9 miles starting from Mono Meadows to LYV. 


                Does 1st night camp selection play important role in permit approval process ?

                If hiking from Mono Meadows - where can we camp at first night in the wilderness?

                How difficult is the hike from Mono Meadows to Half Dome junction?  

              • cjoslyn99
                No, you can t use those permits. They are only good for the Lyell Canyon trailhead and only for the date of entry you have reserved. If you are entering at
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 6, 2014
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                  No, you can't use those permits.  They are only good for the Lyell Canyon trailhead and only for the date of entry you have reserved.  If you are entering at Lone Pine you need one for Mt. Whitney and that's a whole different lottery process (and even more competitive).

                   

                  Don't bail on your plans yet, since we may have yet another light snow year.  When I went in mid July 2012, I encountered one lowly snow patch just south of Muir Pass.

                • robert shattuck
                  Jackson, Why are you thinking Mono Meadow as a starting point?? Once you get past the HD junction you can pretty much camp wherever you want, but of course if
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 6, 2014
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                    Jackson,  

                    Why are you thinking Mono Meadow as a starting point??

                    Once you get past the HD junction you can pretty much camp wherever you want, but of course if your permit says you need to spend your first night at LYV, then....easy day. 

                    I've camped at the Merced lake junction but there were no official spots. If you've got a pass-thru on LYV and you're planning to get to sunrise, you might consider stopping and staying up above the switchbacks before dropping down into sunrise. No water up there, but also no bugs, no bears and no noisy High Sierra Camp staff/guests. 

                    I haven't stayed there in years, but for maybe the first 4-5 times, I would spend the night there and maybe it's just me, but there was always something to annoy me---the bugs would be swarming, then the HSC would be loud and then once I got to sleep, the bears would come and the racket would go on for a while.

                    Now, I stay up high and the nights are quiet. 

                    Bob Shattuck 

                    Sent from my iPhone

                    On Jan 6, 2014, at 2:08 PM, jackskue@... wrote:

                     

                    If I start at Mono Meadows, where would be the first night I camp?  Illilouette an option?  Since LYV and Sunrise Creek seem to be off limits for JMT hikers.  


                    Also, would I need to hike past Sunrise Creek/ Merced Lake pass thru the second night or could I camp there?  

                    Thanks in advance.  

                    Best regards,
                    Jackson





                  • berdomb
                    You want to start July 6??? What do you mean you cant get a permit You cant apply for that permit until Jan. 19
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 6, 2014
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                      You want to start July 6???  What do you mean you cant get a permit
                      You cant apply for that permit until Jan. 19
                    • caohuynh85
                      My best guess is that Jackson and I are having the same problem getting permit at TH such as Happy Isels. So Mono Meadow is alternative TH to maximize the
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 6, 2014
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                        My best guess is that Jackson and I are having the same problem getting permit at TH such as Happy Isels. So Mono Meadow is alternative TH to maximize the chance to get the permit. 

                      • berdomb
                        oops different poster. caohuynh85 not OP Walkup midweek, with a day to spare, get in line early. Rumor has it you will get a permit.
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 6, 2014
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                          oops different poster.

                          caohuynh85 not OP

                          Walkup midweek, with a day to spare, get in line early. 
                          Rumor has it you will get a permit.


                        • robert shattuck
                          It s not for everyone and I am happy to say I ve never gone through the permitting extravaganza headache, but if you can spare the time, just show up and get a
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 6, 2014
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                            It's not for everyone and I am happy to say I've never gone through the permitting extravaganza headache, but if you can spare the time, just show up and get a "walk-in" permit. 

                            I've done this thirteen times now and only 2/3 times have I not walked in then walked out with a next day Happy Isles permit. 

                            --Once I showed up and took a permit to leave that very afternoon. 

                            --2011 was a big snow year and everyone waited until August. I was also with a friend and we had to show up next day, get the permit and then leave next morning. This was a drag, but once out of eleven, not bad. 

                            --This past August I got in off the Amtrak bus at the usual time, and managed to get a next day, Glacier Point to LYV permit. I would highly recommend this trailhead if you have come a great distance and are already travel weary, as the $25 bus up to GP is pleasant and the trail is pretty much all downhill and empty versus the hot crowded uphill slog that Happy Isles can be. 

                            There's also the issue of having to stay on the backpackers camp for two nights perhaps, when the rules all say, one, but this is also not a problem, as long as you're able to chat up the rangers--they understand. 

                            Anyway, if you can build these extra days into your schedule, a walk-in permit is probably within reach. 

                            Bob Shattuck

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Jan 6, 2014, at 2:47 PM, "robert shattuck" <bobolonius@...> wrote:

                             

                            Jackson,  

                            Why are you thinking Mono Meadow as a starting point??

                            Once you get past the HD junction you can pretty much camp wherever you want, but of course if your permit says you need to spend your first night at LYV, then....easy day. 

                            I've camped at the Merced lake junction but there were no official spots. If you've got a pass-thru on LYV and you're planning to get to sunrise, you might consider stopping and staying up above the switchbacks before dropping down into sunrise. No water up there, but also no bugs, no bears and no noisy High Sierra Camp staff/guests. 

                            I haven't stayed there in years, but for maybe the first 4-5 times, I would spend the night there and maybe it's just me, but there was always something to annoy me---the bugs would be swarming, then the HSC would be loud and then once I got to sleep, the bears would come and the racket would go on for a while.

                            Now, I stay up high and the nights are quiet. 

                            Bob Shattuck 

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Jan 6, 2014, at 2:08 PM, jackskue@... wrote:

                             

                            If I start at Mono Meadows, where would be the first night I camp?  Illilouette an option?  Since LYV and Sunrise Creek seem to be off limits for JMT hikers.  


                            Also, would I need to hike past Sunrise Creek/ Merced Lake pass thru the second night or could I camp there?  

                            Thanks in advance.  

                            Best regards,
                            Jackson





                          • jackskue
                            Thanks for the feedback everyone. I found the answers I was looking for under the files/ permit section. Bob I like where your head s at. I want to start at
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 6, 2014
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                              Thanks for the feedback everyone.  I found the answers I was looking for under the files/ permit section. Bob I like where your head's at.  I want to start at Mono because YNP has been my second home for a long time now and I've never been to Mono before.  I'm trying to avoid the permit processing headaches and starting from HI isn't a must.  


                              Merced sounds like a viable option for sure.  


                              I appreciate the help.  


                              Best regards,

                              Jackson

                            • Chip
                              As I read about the difficulty of getting a permit out of Happy Isle I have a few questions. The process is called a lottery. Does that mean all the faxes
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
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                                As I read about the difficulty of getting a permit out of Happy Isle I have a few questions.

                                The process is called a lottery. Does that mean all the faxes that are filled out correctly that are received on the proper date are shuffled up and handled in that order or is it a first come (earliest received) handled in that order?

                                Does the group size on the requests effect the number of permits issued? Happy Isle to Little Yosemite Valley has 18 reservable permits, does that mean that 18 hikers total or 18 groups?

                                Thanks,
                                Chip
                              • Ray Rippel
                                Good day, Chip, The way it is supposed to work is that all requests are shuffled (thus randomizing). The first permit request is selected (let s say HI-LYV for
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
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                                  Good day, Chip,

                                  The way it is supposed to work is that all requests are shuffled (thus randomizing). The first permit request is selected (let's say HI-LYV for 4 folks). They get their request. So do the next four requests which are for 3, 4, 2, and 3 (all for HI-LYV). Now the total number is up to 16. They next request on the pile is for 3 people; they are passed over. The next is for 4; they are passed over. The next is for 2; they get the last two slots.

                                  Of course this all has to take place in the context of multiple trailheads, and multiple trailhead requests on each form, but I think that answers you question.

                                  Good hiking, Ray

                                • arthurvino
                                  Final Preps are in place, hiking in 2 weeks. No permit yet. What time should I get in line in Happy Isles to have a great chance of starting the same day out
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jul 22 3:17 AM
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                                    Final Preps are in place, hiking in 2 weeks. No permit yet.


                                    What time should I get in line in Happy Isles to have a great chance of starting the same day out of HI?

                                    I have seen various responses ranging from 3am to 6am to its all pot of the luck and you get get yours around 11 am, if someone cancels. My time is limited, since my plane flight back is already booked.


                                    Thanks

                                  • Ray Rippel
                                    Good day, Arthur, Chances are not good that you will walk into the Wilderness Center and get a Happy Isles permit for that same day. It s not impossible, but
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jul 22 9:25 AM
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                                      Good day, Arthur,

                                      Chances are not good that you will walk into the Wilderness Center and get a Happy Isles permit for that same day. It's not impossible, but it is unlikely. If you are going solo it would help.

                                      As far as getting a permit without a reservation, take a look at this: http://jmtbook.com/getting-a-permit-without-a-reservation/

                                      Good hiking, Ray
                                    • s_sava
                                      Planning my first ever trip on the JMT. Looking to start at Italy Pass or Mono Pass to finish at Tulume Meadows in yosemite. All I need is a permit for Italy
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Mar 24
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                                        Planning my first ever trip on the JMT. Looking to start at Italy Pass or Mono Pass to finish at Tulume Meadows in yosemite. All I need is a permit for Italy Pass or Mono on the day I start, correct? Thanks!


                                      • Larry Beck
                                        s_sava, That s correct. You would get your permit reservation from reservation.gov and you won t have to worry about the Donahue exit permit since you re
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Mar 24
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                                          s_sava,

                                          That's correct. You would get your permit reservation from reservation.gov and you won't have to worry about the Donahue exit permit since you're heading northbound.
                                           
                                          Larry


                                          From: "s_sava@... [johnmuirtrail]" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 8:56 AM
                                          Subject: [John Muir Trail] Permit question

                                           
                                          Planning my first ever trip on the JMT. Looking to start at Italy Pass or Mono Pass to finish at Tulume Meadows in yosemite. All I need is a permit for Italy Pass or Mono on the day I start, correct? Thanks!



                                        • Larry Beck
                                          Sorry about that.. It should be recreation.gov  Italy Pass is trail head JM10.
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Mar 24
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                                            Sorry about that.. It should be recreation.gov  Italy Pass is trail head JM10.

                                             
                                            Larry


                                            From: "Larry Beck becklaurence@... [johnmuirtrail]" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                                            To: "johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 7:54 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Permit question

                                             
                                            s_sava,

                                            That's correct. You would get your permit reservation from reservation.gov and you won't have to worry about the Donahue exit permit since you're heading northbound.
                                             
                                            Larry




                                            From: "s_sava@... [johnmuirtrail]" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                                            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 8:56 AM
                                            Subject: [John Muir Trail] Permit question

                                             
                                            Planning my first ever trip on the JMT. Looking to start at Italy Pass or Mono Pass to finish at Tulume Meadows in yosemite. All I need is a permit for Italy Pass or Mono on the day I start, correct? Thanks!





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