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Permit Trail Head Designations

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  • Sam Rohlfs
    Hi, I hear others putting Happy Isles-LYV as one choice and Happy Isles-pass thru as another. So Happy Isles is the trail head and LYV is the first night s
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 1, 2011
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      Hi,

      I hear others putting Happy Isles-LYV as one choice and Happy Isles-pass thru as another. So Happy Isles is the trail head and LYV is the first night's camp?

      Since it is a trail head quota system, does the first night's camp really matter? (as long as you are far enough out of course)

      Thanks
      Sam
    • gordonjacobsen
      Sam, To answer your question - Kind of. On the wilderness permit application
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 1, 2011
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        Sam,

        To answer your question - Kind of. On the wilderness permit application (http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&PageID=391418), you will notice that the drop down menu for the entry trailhead has 3 options for Happy Isles, two of which follow the JMT:

        1. Happy Isles -> Sunrise/Merced Lake Pass Through (No Camping in LYV)

        2. Happy Isles -> Little Yosemite Valley

        Even though one trail is essentially an extension of the other, they are considered two different trailheads (with different quotas). But you are correct is stating that your first night camp location would also be different depending on the trail selected... just make sure you select LYV for the camp on option #2 and anything but LYV for option #1.

        Hope that clarifies.




        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Sam Rohlfs" <samrohlfs@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I hear others putting Happy Isles-LYV as one choice and Happy Isles-pass thru as another. So Happy Isles is the trail head and LYV is the first night's camp?
        >
        > Since it is a trail head quota system, does the first night's camp really matter? (as long as you are far enough out of course)
        >
        > Thanks
        > Sam
        >
      • Roleigh Martin
        Others, correct me if I am wrong. If I recall correctly, feedback in the past on this question has been (a) some back country rangers do not care if you hike
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 1, 2011
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          Others, correct me if I am wrong.  If I recall correctly, feedback in the past on this question has been (a) some back country rangers do not care if you hike beyond LYV and camp at the next legitimate spot (which is at or beyond the Cloud Rest Junction) but the (b) rangers at the wilderness permit station do care.  I don't know what's the official answer but I suspect the official answer is that the camp site capacity at the first camp site past Cloud Rest Junction, because it is smaller than LYV camp's site, that they do want those who get the LYV permit to camp there.  Can others jump in?  John D?

          On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:57 PM, gordonjacobsen <gordonjacobsen@...> wrote:
          Sam,

          To answer your question - Kind of.  On the wilderness permit application (http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&PageID=391418), you will notice that the drop down menu for the entry trailhead has 3 options for Happy Isles, two of which follow the JMT:

          1. Happy Isles -> Sunrise/Merced Lake Pass Through (No Camping in LYV)

          2. Happy Isles -> Little Yosemite Valley

          Even though one trail is essentially an extension of the other, they are considered two different trailheads (with different quotas).  But you are correct is stating that your first night camp location would also be different depending on the trail selected... just make sure you select LYV for the camp on option #2 and anything but LYV for option #1.

          Hope that clarifies.




          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Sam Rohlfs" <samrohlfs@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > I hear others putting Happy Isles-LYV as one choice and Happy Isles-pass thru as another.  So Happy Isles is the trail head and LYV is the first night's camp?
          >
          > Since it is a trail head quota system, does the first night's camp really matter? (as long as you are far enough out of course)
          >
          > Thanks
          > Sam
          >




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        • whiplash.hiker
          Roleigh: I think you re spot on as to why they limit the number of hikers past LYV. Its not just those leaving from HI, but also those coming down from
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 1, 2011
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            Roleigh:
            I think you're spot on as to why they limit the number of hikers past LYV. Its not just those leaving from HI, but also those coming down from Cathedral Lakes, heading toward the valley, Sunrise Lakes, and all of the other THs that head into that part of the valley. They want to limit the number of hikers so as not to exceed the carrying capacity of the available campsites.
            Can you imagine the number of people that go hiking and backpacking in that relatively small area of the Sierras? No wonder they have quotas!!

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
            >
            > Others, correct me if I am wrong. If I recall correctly, feedback in the
            > past on this question has been (a) some back country rangers do not care if
            > you hike beyond LYV and camp at the next legitimate spot (which is at or
            > beyond the Cloud Rest Junction) but the (b) rangers at the wilderness permit
            > station do care. I don't know what's the official answer but I suspect the
            > official answer is that the camp site capacity at the first camp site past
            > Cloud Rest Junction, because it is smaller than LYV camp's site, that they
            > do want those who get the LYV permit to camp there. Can others jump in?
            > John D?
            >
            > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:57 PM, gordonjacobsen <gordonjacobsen@...>wrote:
            >
            > > Sam,
            > >
            > > To answer your question - Kind of. On the wilderness permit application (
            > > http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&PageID=391418),
            > > you will notice that the drop down menu for the entry trailhead has 3
            > > options for Happy Isles, two of which follow the JMT:
            > >
            > > 1. Happy Isles -> Sunrise/Merced Lake Pass Through (No Camping in LYV)
            > >
            > > 2. Happy Isles -> Little Yosemite Valley
            > >
            > > Even though one trail is essentially an extension of the other, they are
            > > considered two different trailheads (with different quotas). But you are
            > > correct is stating that your first night camp location would also be
            > > different depending on the trail selected... just make sure you select LYV
            > > for the camp on option #2 and anything but LYV for option #1.
            > >
            > > Hope that clarifies.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Sam Rohlfs" <samrohlfs@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi,
            > > >
            > > > I hear others putting Happy Isles-LYV as one choice and Happy Isles-pass
            > > thru as another. So Happy Isles is the trail head and LYV is the first
            > > night's camp?
            > > >
            > > > Since it is a trail head quota system, does the first night's camp really
            > > matter? (as long as you are far enough out of course)
            > > >
            > > > Thanks
            > > > Sam
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Please strip out "replied-to" text if not necessary to your reply. Failure
            > > to strip makes it hard for our Daily Digest members to find the new postings
            > > among the repeats.Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • robert shattuck
            Sam, This probably doesn t answer your questions but . . . happy Isles the the trailhead and the spot where you see the mileage sign and it reads mount
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 1, 2011
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              Sam, 

              This probably doesn't answer your questions but . . . 

              happy Isles the the trailhead and the spot where you see the mileage sign and it reads "mount whitney 211 miles" or something like that and you start walking up the small hill thinking something like, these are the first few steps of the first  mile and . . . yep, the first camp post is LITTLE YOSEMITE VALLEY. 

              I used to be happy to get there (or be told to get there) about noon-ish and spend the rest of the day, watching the place fill up with lots of people. some of them loud, some of them quiet and very few of them actually doing the JMT––most of them are headed up to Half Dome in the morning and whooping it up by the fire all night . . . until the rangers come out . . .

              I don't really think of the LYV rangers as "backcountry rangers" they are too starched and too into laying down the law and way too into (excuse me, but at least the women and the short guys :) kinda giving off the "I've got a 9mm right here on my belt, see it! see it! " 

              They love to preach the law and rightly so, as LYV ain't exactly the backcountry either––if they can get you on some (did you just pee on that tree?) sort of an infraction, my guess is, they will and you'll "make their day". 

              if your permit says stay here or leave on this date from this trailhead, I'd pretty much stick to that, but as I've told a few people (and not to get to off-topic) and let's see if this makes sense . . . better to be behind a day than ahead.

              IF your permit says leave tomorrow and you leave today––that's bad. If you're permit says leave today and proceed to X, but you're perhaps too tired or "suddenly injured" or whatever and don't leave––I think you can get away with that . . . there's really no speed law once you get on the trail . . . those "ranger trainees" in the office like to sit there and tell you where you've got to get to but really, once you are on the trail, you're on your own . . . mostly. 

              Yosemite is about the only place you'll ever see a ranger . . . several times I've had LYV as the place I had to stop, but I kept going and was lucky enough not to run into a ranger as I am sure they would have checked my permit and (a) turned me back (b) ticketed me (c) shot me right there in self-defense "he didn't have the right permit and "I FEARED FOR MY LIFE"  (pretty much every cops, "get out of jail card") (d) all of the above.

              If you happen to get up to LYV and decide you just gotta keep moving, there are a number of places you can camp once you get past the Half Dome Junction. There are spots near a few water sources and spots at various junctions and spots in between everything else. My personal favorite is to blitz past LYV spend the time getting up the switch-backs and then camping up top, on the very flat and wonderful "ridge" or plateau or whatever you call it, before you descend down for another 20-30 minutes to noisy SUNRISE. 

              There's no water up top, but there's lots of space, lots to look at, and it's quiet as can be, plus, all the bears are dining down at Sunrise. Not to mention, THE BUGS. 

              oh yeah, my point, sort of, is that YOSEMITE is just the start of the trail and if you have to abide by a few rules and quotas––where to stay, when to be there, then what the hell––once you get out of yosemite, it's all wild and all about you––no one is going to hassle you for being a day late or a day early, or that you didn't camp in a spot with 200 other people and as long as you're not parked in sensitive restoration spots, you're gold. 

              Bob
              http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480






              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              From: samrohlfs@...
              Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 00:18:36 +0000
              Subject: [John Muir Trail] Permit Trail Head Designations

               
              Hi,

              I hear others putting Happy Isles-LYV as one choice and Happy Isles-pass thru as another. So Happy Isles is the trail head and LYV is the first night's camp?

              Since it is a trail head quota system, does the first night's camp really matter? (as long as you are far enough out of course)

              Thanks
              Sam


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