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  • Barbara Karagosian
    I am very interested in the Lightheart Cuben fiber solo tent, at 12 ozs. A doublewall tent with vestibule that also has an awning option. Uses 2 trekking poles
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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      I am very interested in the Lightheart Cuben fiber solo tent, at 12 ozs. A doublewall tent with vestibule that also has an awning option. Uses 2 trekking poles or they also offer poles. Can't be used as a poncho however, lol. Oh, and costs a fortune.

      Barbara
    • Kim Fishburn
      I ve been looking at that myself. It uses 2 treking poles PLUS another pole for the Awning version. I guess you could take a chance that you could find a
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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        I've been looking at that myself. It uses 2 treking poles PLUS another pole for the Awning version. I guess you could take a chance that you could find a stick, but from my experience in the sierras people have often burned every decent sized stick in the area. I used to spend my last hour of hiking looking for a long stick to use for hanging my food. 590$ for the cuben version is quite a bit. I was thinking that the awning version wouldn't prevent water being blown in the screen but now I see that they have a panel that zips up to close it off.

        Kim


        From: Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...>
        To: forum JMT <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, January 6, 2011 8:28:35 AM
        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Shelters

         

        I am very interested in the Lightheart Cuben fiber solo tent, at 12 ozs. A doublewall tent with vestibule that also has an awning option. Uses 2 trekking poles or they also offer poles. Can't be used as a poncho however, lol. Oh, and costs a fortune.

        Barbara

      • Peter Burke
        ... 12 ounces - and how does it hold up in a 2 day storm? With my kids we use a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3 - about 5 pounds with stakes and pretty good in rain
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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          On 1/6/2011 8:28 AM, Barbara Karagosian wrote:
          > I am very interested in the Lightheart Cuben fiber solo tent, at 12 ozs. A doublewall tent with vestibule that also has an awning option. Uses 2 trekking poles or they also offer poles. Can't be used as a poncho however, lol. Oh, and costs a fortune.

          12 ounces - and how does it hold up in a 2 day storm?

          With my kids we use a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3 - about 5 pounds with
          stakes and pretty good in rain and wind. Most likely the best tent I
          ever owned. It weighs less than my last 2 person tent (Sierra Designs
          Meteor Light - decent 1980s technology that worked fine on many JMTs),
          is very easy to set up even solo, very roomy, great ventilation, and it
          never leaked, even when we set it up under the drip circle of a big tree
          near Rae Lakes last year when the storm went on for over 24 hours
          without letting off. But it is a large footprint 3-person tent that
          does take some site picking to find a spot that is level enough for all
          occupants. So far I never took it out solo, but it is lighter than tents
          I used solo in the past.

          In fall 2009 I tried a Big Agnes Speedhouse one-person tent in '09 and
          hated it. Hassle to set up, claustrophobic, condensation central, no
          room to put gear inside, the rear of the tent touches your sleeping bag
          no matter how you stake it out, and the vestibule is just good for your
          boots and a couple of pots, and all that at still 3+ pounds! When you
          open the front door of the fly to help with ventilation, the water will
          drip right into your face through the interior mesh door. Pathetic
          design, and something only bad experiences will tell you to look for
          when you buy a tent.

          I wished on that trip I had just taken the proven big tent. 2 pounds
          more or less don't really matter to me if it make the trip more
          enjoyable. I do not count myself among those who spend much time in camp
          but I do want the camp to be the safe and comfortable place to look
          forward to each day, not the "I gotta get into that turd of a tent
          again?" situation.

          Now for 2011, I am about to pull the trigger on a winter tent - need one
          for April. The choices are rather far apart and I have to base my choice
          on others' experiences. Knowing that I like a "real tent" over a "it
          saves ounces" tents, I am torn between the highly recommended 2-pound
          MSR Twin Sisters "tarp" as the only shelter to bring into snow country,
          and a "real" 4 season tent like a Mountain Hardwear Trango 2 or
          something from Bibler/Black Diamond, Hilleberg or the classic North Face
          Mountain series (all around 6-8 pounds). Big price difference there,
          too, so I may just try the tarp - it's big for one person and I know
          others have used it, so on my test-the-Sierra-snow trip this April it'll
          have to show how that works during a season when there are no mosquitoes
          to worry about. Anyone with Sierra snow experience (Ned, John?) got some
          tent input for me?
        • Barbara Karagosian
          $495 without the awning. I can live without an awning! Barbara
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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            $495 without the awning. I can live without an awning!

             Barbara

            On Jan 6, 2011, at 6:59 AM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:

             

            I've been looking at that myself. It uses 2 treking poles PLUS another pole for the Awning version. I guess you could take a chance that you could find a stick, but from my experience in the sierras people have often burned every decent sized stick in the area. I used to spend my last hour of hiking looking for a long stick to use for hanging my food. 590$ for the cuben version is quite a bit. I was thinking that the awning version wouldn't prevent water being blown in the screen but now I see that they have a panel that zips up to close it off.

            Kim


            From: Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...>
            To: forum JMT <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thu, January 6, 2011 8:28:35 AM
            Subject: [John Muir Trail] Shelters

             

            I am very interested in the Lightheart Cuben fiber solo tent, at 12 ozs. A doublewall tent with vestibule that also has an awning option. Uses 2 trekking poles or they also offer poles. Can't be used as a poncho however, lol. Oh, and costs a fortune.

            Barbara

          • Barbara Karagosian
            2 of us used the Copper Spur UL2 last summer. Loved it. Great in heavy prolonged rain and hail. Too heavy for one but there s a UL1 version. Nice side entry,
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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              2 of us used the Copper Spur UL2 last summer. Loved it. Great in heavy prolonged rain and hail. Too heavy for one but there's a UL1 version. Nice side entry, no drips. I've heard the Flycreek, which gas a front entry, is a dropper in the same way the Seedhouse is. 

               Barbara
               


            • Peter Burke
              ... I saw the UL 1 - thing is, it was more expensive than what I paid for the UL3, so I made the mistake to assume that other Big Agnes tents are as well
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                On 1/6/2011 10:13 AM, Barbara Karagosian wrote:
                2 of us used the Copper Spur UL2 last summer. Loved it. Great in heavy prolonged rain and hail. Too heavy for one but there's a UL1 version. Nice side entry, no drips. I've heard the Flycreek, which gas a front entry, is a dropper in the same way the Seedhouse is. 


                I saw the UL 1 - thing is, it was more expensive than what I paid for the UL3, so I made the mistake to assume that other Big Agnes tents are as well designed. Not...




              • John
                Peter, others I m probably not the guy to ask regarding equipment as I have a tendency to find something that works for me and then use it for 20 years. I
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                  Peter, others

                  I'm probably not the guy to ask regarding equipment as I have a tendency to find something that works for me and then use it for 20 years. I don't really have any idea what's "out there" as far as new equipment/technology (for better or worse).

                  That said, in the summer when we take a tent it is the North Face Tadpole. I can't remember how long we have had that tent but I would say we have at least 400 nights in it. We have used this in very wet conditions (North Cascades, New Zeland). Free standing, 4lbs, dbl wall, vestibule, GREAT tent for people that are: A - under 5' 10", B - relatively intimant. One draw back, as a netting tent, we once sat out a horrendous sand storm and the tent filled up with sand.

                  On short winter/spring tours I take my winter bag and a bivy sack. On longer spring tours (up to 3 weeks) we add a pyramid type tarp (Megamid) to that. We carry avy shovels and use them to create snow caves (the ultimate light weight winter shelter) when the poop hits the fan.

                  If you use a single wall tent/tarp in the winter or spring, I have found it very important to have a bivysac as well. Condensation will form, freeze, and when the wind picks up, drop, onto your bag, where it will melt and things get wet.

                  Except in the heaviest snow years, come April or May we pretty much camp exclusively on exposed rock slabs. Stopping around 2 or 3 to lounge in the relentless sun, dry out boots, get solar stills going if necessary, read, or ski an afternoon corn run. Slabs are usually abundant and IMHO much superior to snow (for camping). We watch the sun set sipping tea from the comfort of our down jackets and sleeping bags then pull our heads in for 8-10 hours of sleep.

                  We choose sites with long sun exposure which in the spring can be close to 14 hours so very few waking hours are spent cold in the shade.

                  Hope that helps some.

                  JD
                  Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                  www.johndittli.com


                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On 1/6/2011 8:28 AM, Barbara Karagosian wrote:
                  > > I am very interested in the Lightheart Cuben fiber solo tent, at 12 ozs. A doublewall tent with vestibule that also has an awning option. Uses 2 trekking poles or they also offer poles. Can't be used as a poncho however, lol. Oh, and costs a fortune.
                  >
                  > 12 ounces - and how does it hold up in a 2 day storm?
                  >
                  > With my kids we use a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3 - about 5 pounds with
                  > stakes and pretty good in rain and wind. Most likely the best tent I
                  > ever owned. It weighs less than my last 2 person tent (Sierra Designs
                  > Meteor Light - decent 1980s technology that worked fine on many JMTs),
                  > is very easy to set up even solo, very roomy, great ventilation, and it
                  > never leaked, even when we set it up under the drip circle of a big tree
                  > near Rae Lakes last year when the storm went on for over 24 hours
                  > without letting off. But it is a large footprint 3-person tent that
                  > does take some site picking to find a spot that is level enough for all
                  > occupants. So far I never took it out solo, but it is lighter than tents
                  > I used solo in the past.
                  >
                  > In fall 2009 I tried a Big Agnes Speedhouse one-person tent in '09 and
                  > hated it. Hassle to set up, claustrophobic, condensation central, no
                  > room to put gear inside, the rear of the tent touches your sleeping bag
                  > no matter how you stake it out, and the vestibule is just good for your
                  > boots and a couple of pots, and all that at still 3+ pounds! When you
                  > open the front door of the fly to help with ventilation, the water will
                  > drip right into your face through the interior mesh door. Pathetic
                  > design, and something only bad experiences will tell you to look for
                  > when you buy a tent.
                  >
                  > I wished on that trip I had just taken the proven big tent. 2 pounds
                  > more or less don't really matter to me if it make the trip more
                  > enjoyable. I do not count myself among those who spend much time in camp
                  > but I do want the camp to be the safe and comfortable place to look
                  > forward to each day, not the "I gotta get into that turd of a tent
                  > again?" situation.
                  >
                  > Now for 2011, I am about to pull the trigger on a winter tent - need one
                  > for April. The choices are rather far apart and I have to base my choice
                  > on others' experiences. Knowing that I like a "real tent" over a "it
                  > saves ounces" tents, I am torn between the highly recommended 2-pound
                  > MSR Twin Sisters "tarp" as the only shelter to bring into snow country,
                  > and a "real" 4 season tent like a Mountain Hardwear Trango 2 or
                  > something from Bibler/Black Diamond, Hilleberg or the classic North Face
                  > Mountain series (all around 6-8 pounds). Big price difference there,
                  > too, so I may just try the tarp - it's big for one person and I know
                  > others have used it, so on my test-the-Sierra-snow trip this April it'll
                  > have to show how that works during a season when there are no mosquitoes
                  > to worry about. Anyone with Sierra snow experience (Ned, John?) got some
                  > tent input for me?
                  >
                • gordonjacobsen
                  Peter, I will give my $.02 on the winter tents. For my winter home, I went with the MWH Trango 2 and haven t regretted it. I was lucky enough to find the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                    Peter,

                    I will give my $.02 on the winter tents. For my winter home, I went with the MWH Trango 2 and haven't regretted it. I was lucky enough to find the older model on Craiglist for $200 in like new condition.

                    I have used the tent on Rainier, Orizaba and other mountain peaks as well few trips in the Wasatch mountains out my back door. It has survived amazing wind storms while is was earily calm inside. The first time I used the tent, I was at 10k feet on top of 100 inches of snow. I slept in past 9:30 as it was so dry and toasty... even after dumping another 15" of snow that night. Before this tent, I was also awake by six, eager for the sun to rise and warm my cold bones.

                    Pros: bombproof, well designed gear storage, roomy (fits 2 easily), good ventilation, snow anchors, big vestible, and it gives you the option of just setting up just the rainfly / footprint (if you want a lighter weight option). Cons: price and weight (9+ pounds). Long story short, if you want a winter camping tent to survive just about anything and can split the weight with a partner, go for it. If you dont need something that bomber, I would look for a cheaper, lighter option.

                    Note: A fellow mountaineer has a TNF Mountain 25. After having slept in both, I would give a slight node to the Trango. I can't speak for other tents.

                    Gordy


                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Now for 2011, I am about to pull the trigger on a winter tent - need one
                    > for April. The choices are rather far apart and I have to base my choice
                    > on others' experiences. Knowing that I like a "real tent" over a "it
                    > saves ounces" tents, I am torn between the highly recommended 2-pound
                    > MSR Twin Sisters "tarp" as the only shelter to bring into snow country,
                    > and a "real" 4 season tent like a Mountain Hardwear Trango 2 or
                    > something from Bibler/Black Diamond, Hilleberg or the classic North Face
                    > Mountain series (all around 6-8 pounds). Big price difference there,
                    > too, so I may just try the tarp - it's big for one person and I know
                    > others have used it, so on my test-the-Sierra-snow trip this April it'll
                    > have to show how that works during a season when there are no mosquitoes
                    > to worry about. Anyone with Sierra snow experience (Ned, John?) got some
                    > tent input for me?
                    >
                  • John
                    P.S. for REAL winter mountaineering I still have my trusty, seldom used anymore, North Face VE-25. Heavy, bomb proof. You probably can find those used pretty
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                      P.S. for REAL winter mountaineering I still have my trusty, seldom used anymore, North Face VE-25. Heavy, bomb proof. You probably can find those used pretty cheap.

                      JD
                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <shop@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Peter, others
                      >
                      > I'm probably not the guy to ask regarding equipment as I have a tendency to find something that works for me and then use it for 20 years. I don't really have any idea what's "out there" as far as new equipment/technology (for better or worse).
                      >
                      > That said, in the summer when we take a tent it is the North Face Tadpole. I can't remember how long we have had that tent but I would say we have at least 400 nights in it. We have used this in very wet conditions (North Cascades, New Zeland). Free standing, 4lbs, dbl wall, vestibule, GREAT tent for people that are: A - under 5' 10", B - relatively intimant. One draw back, as a netting tent, we once sat out a horrendous sand storm and the tent filled up with sand.
                      >
                      > On short winter/spring tours I take my winter bag and a bivy sack. On longer spring tours (up to 3 weeks) we add a pyramid type tarp (Megamid) to that. We carry avy shovels and use them to create snow caves (the ultimate light weight winter shelter) when the poop hits the fan.
                      >
                      > If you use a single wall tent/tarp in the winter or spring, I have found it very important to have a bivysac as well. Condensation will form, freeze, and when the wind picks up, drop, onto your bag, where it will melt and things get wet.
                      >
                      > Except in the heaviest snow years, come April or May we pretty much camp exclusively on exposed rock slabs. Stopping around 2 or 3 to lounge in the relentless sun, dry out boots, get solar stills going if necessary, read, or ski an afternoon corn run. Slabs are usually abundant and IMHO much superior to snow (for camping). We watch the sun set sipping tea from the comfort of our down jackets and sleeping bags then pull our heads in for 8-10 hours of sleep.
                      >
                      > We choose sites with long sun exposure which in the spring can be close to 14 hours so very few waking hours are spent cold in the shade.
                      >
                      > Hope that helps some.
                      >
                      > JD
                      > Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                      > www.johndittli.com
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Peter Burke <pburke@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > On 1/6/2011 8:28 AM, Barbara Karagosian wrote:
                      > > > I am very interested in the Lightheart Cuben fiber solo tent, at 12 ozs. A doublewall tent with vestibule that also has an awning option. Uses 2 trekking poles or they also offer poles. Can't be used as a poncho however, lol. Oh, and costs a fortune.
                      > >
                      > > 12 ounces - and how does it hold up in a 2 day storm?
                      > >
                      > > With my kids we use a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3 - about 5 pounds with
                      > > stakes and pretty good in rain and wind. Most likely the best tent I
                      > > ever owned. It weighs less than my last 2 person tent (Sierra Designs
                      > > Meteor Light - decent 1980s technology that worked fine on many JMTs),
                      > > is very easy to set up even solo, very roomy, great ventilation, and it
                      > > never leaked, even when we set it up under the drip circle of a big tree
                      > > near Rae Lakes last year when the storm went on for over 24 hours
                      > > without letting off. But it is a large footprint 3-person tent that
                      > > does take some site picking to find a spot that is level enough for all
                      > > occupants. So far I never took it out solo, but it is lighter than tents
                      > > I used solo in the past.
                      > >
                      > > In fall 2009 I tried a Big Agnes Speedhouse one-person tent in '09 and
                      > > hated it. Hassle to set up, claustrophobic, condensation central, no
                      > > room to put gear inside, the rear of the tent touches your sleeping bag
                      > > no matter how you stake it out, and the vestibule is just good for your
                      > > boots and a couple of pots, and all that at still 3+ pounds! When you
                      > > open the front door of the fly to help with ventilation, the water will
                      > > drip right into your face through the interior mesh door. Pathetic
                      > > design, and something only bad experiences will tell you to look for
                      > > when you buy a tent.
                      > >
                      > > I wished on that trip I had just taken the proven big tent. 2 pounds
                      > > more or less don't really matter to me if it make the trip more
                      > > enjoyable. I do not count myself among those who spend much time in camp
                      > > but I do want the camp to be the safe and comfortable place to look
                      > > forward to each day, not the "I gotta get into that turd of a tent
                      > > again?" situation.
                      > >
                      > > Now for 2011, I am about to pull the trigger on a winter tent - need one
                      > > for April. The choices are rather far apart and I have to base my choice
                      > > on others' experiences. Knowing that I like a "real tent" over a "it
                      > > saves ounces" tents, I am torn between the highly recommended 2-pound
                      > > MSR Twin Sisters "tarp" as the only shelter to bring into snow country,
                      > > and a "real" 4 season tent like a Mountain Hardwear Trango 2 or
                      > > something from Bibler/Black Diamond, Hilleberg or the classic North Face
                      > > Mountain series (all around 6-8 pounds). Big price difference there,
                      > > too, so I may just try the tarp - it's big for one person and I know
                      > > others have used it, so on my test-the-Sierra-snow trip this April it'll
                      > > have to show how that works during a season when there are no mosquitoes
                      > > to worry about. Anyone with Sierra snow experience (Ned, John?) got some
                      > > tent input for me?
                      > >
                      >
                    • Peter Burke
                      ... I m like that, too - my 20 year old Meteor Light is still in my gear collection and still works. It just got too small for 3 people. It was perfect in the
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                        On 1/6/2011 10:32 AM, John wrote:
                        > Peter, others
                        >
                        > I'm probably not the guy to ask regarding equipment as I have a tendency to find something that works for me and then use it for 20 years. I don't really have any idea what's "out there" as far as new equipment/technology (for better or worse).
                        >

                        I'm like that, too - my 20 year old Meteor Light is still in my gear
                        collection and still works. It just got too small for 3 people. It was
                        perfect in the 80s and still will get you down the JMT in comfort. It
                        also won't turn to dust after 3 weeks of UV exposure, unlike some of the
                        modern ultralight tent fabrics (my Big Agnes tents tell me not to set
                        them up in the sun...).

                        > On short winter/spring tours I take my winter bag and a bivy sack. On longer spring tours (up to 3 weeks) we add a pyramid type tarp (Megamid) to that. We carry shovels and use them to create snow caves (the ultimate light weight winter shelter) when the poop hits the fan.
                        >
                        I already have the shovel (first item I bought for the winter trip -
                        can't go wrong there). Not sure if I will go for the tarp tent in spite
                        of the tempting low weight - on slabs as you point out later a free
                        standing tent would be a much better option. I won't have the time to
                        dry out stuff in the afternoons very often, either - the Muir Trail is
                        too long to hang out for many daylight hours without moving, unless
                        drying out is absolutely necessary. Miles per day in winter are more
                        important than in summer, because resupplying is much more difficult.
                        And, as it stands right now, I will be solo - carry everything for one
                        person on one back.

                        Does a bivy sack prevent moisture buildup inside a down bag? It may keep
                        the outside dry, but I was going to use a bag liner vapor barrier
                        instead of wrapping the bag inside another bag. Keeping the moisture out
                        of the down is key to staying warm long term (unless you can spend
                        entire afternoons drying out your stuff). I am still shopping for a -20F
                        bag, and may get one with a water-repellent shell just to combat that
                        outside moisture condensing on the bag issue. I already had that happen
                        at +20F on Whitney in 2009 in September and the sleeping bag more or
                        less collapsed around my face and chest. Really can't afford sleeping
                        bag performance issues on a long trip. I've even been looking at a
                        synthetic fill bag, just to make sure there's some insulation left if
                        everything else goes wrong.


                        > Except in the heaviest snow years, come April or May we pretty much camp exclusively on exposed rock slabs. Stopping around 2 or 3 to lounge in the relentless sun, dry out boots, get solar stills going if necessary, read, or ski an afternoon corn run. Slabs are usually abundant and IMHO much superior to snow (for camping). We watch the sun set sipping tea from the comfort of our down jackets and sleeping bags then pull our heads in for 8-10 hours of sleep.
                        >

                        No time for that when the goal is to cover the JMT in winter. I also
                        will not go in May (high water levels). My target window is late March
                        through late April. I want to have frozen lakes and no issues at Bear
                        Creek and Evolution... solo crossing these things in high icy water is
                        not on my list of must-do items. Still have not even decided if I want
                        to go south-north (sun in back, better snow on the downhill side), or
                        north-south (easier acclimation, know the trail that way better than my
                        own back yard)


                        > We choose sites with long sun exposure which in the spring can be close to 14 hours so very few waking hours are spent cold in the shade.

                        I make an attempt at picking sun-exposed sites in summer, too, but many
                        times you just can't pick the perfect place unless you are willing cut
                        your day short - something I only am willing to do when I have too much
                        food and don't need to go any further, or wet gear absolutely must be
                        dried.
                      • Peter Burke
                        Gordy, great info on the the Trango 2, which is on my shortlist - thing is, as it stands right now, I am going alone adn the weight of this tent is just going
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                          Gordy,

                          great info on the the Trango 2, which is on my shortlist - thing is, as
                          it stands right now, I am going alone adn the weight of this tent is
                          just going to be a bit much for one person, which is why I am
                          considering the MHW EV2 to shed 3 pounds. This would be a winter-only
                          tent, so the single wall construction of the EV2 doesn't concern me.
                          Basically, the EV2 is a free-standing upgrade over a tarp like the MSR
                          Twin-Sisters, which is the clear low weight and low cost option on my
                          list. Here's a link to somebody using it in April in the Sierras - I
                          suppose if he can do it, I can...
                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/26480813@N06/sets/72157623883327221/with/4584734383/

                          and here in May at higher elevation around Piute Pass
                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/26480813@N06/sets/72157605001864773/


                          MHW EV2 in action:

                          http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/fs-mountain-hardwear-ev2-expedition-tent-t52242.html
                          http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1266/1052962761_9cb9ed60aa_b.jpg

                          definitely a cold-climate only tent but longer inside than the Trango 2
                          (I read it's short for a 6 foot person) and coming in at "just" 6 pounds
                          I could tolerate that as a solo tent.. The TNF VE25 and the newer
                          Mountain 25 are almost 10 pounds...

                          Peter




                          On 1/6/2011 11:50 AM, gordonjacobsen wrote:
                          > Peter,
                          >
                          > I will give my $.02 on the winter tents. For my winter home, I went with the MWH Trango 2 and haven't regretted it. I was lucky enough to find the older model on Craiglist for $200 in like new condition.
                          >
                          > I have used the tent on Rainier, Orizaba and other mountain peaks as well few trips in the Wasatch mountains out my back door. It has survived amazing wind storms while is was earily calm inside. The first time I used the tent, I was at 10k feet on top of 100 inches of snow. I slept in past 9:30 as it was so dry and toasty... even after dumping another 15" of snow that night. Before this tent, I was also awake by six, eager for the sun to rise and warm my cold bones.
                          >
                          > Pros: bombproof, well designed gear storage, roomy (fits 2 easily), good ventilation, snow anchors, big vestible, and it gives you the option of just setting up just the rainfly / footprint (if you want a lighter weight option). Cons: price and weight (9+ pounds). Long story short, if you want a winter camping tent to survive just about anything and can split the weight with a partner, go for it. If you dont need something that bomber, I would look for a cheaper, lighter option.
                          >
                          > Note: A fellow mountaineer has a TNF Mountain 25. After having slept in both, I would give a slight node to the Trango. I can't speak for other tents.
                          >
                          > Gordy
                        • Don Amundson
                          So Barbara, do you have your 8 x12 tent sites picked out? Just teasing, but it is a consideration and may limit your site choices in some areas of the JMT.
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                            So Barbara, do you have your 8'x12' tent sites picked out?  Just teasing, but it is a consideration and may limit your site choices in some areas of the JMT.

                            As an aside I was thinking about how some have stated they don't spend much time in their shelters which influences their choices.  My experience has certainly been different.  I'm in my shelter 10-12 hours. I tend to reach the day's destination, due the usual chores, exploration, cooking etc. and hit the sack at around 7pm.  I'm there until about 6am.  Seems like a lot of time to me. Just wondering what those who don't spend a lot of time in there shelters are doing.


                            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                            From: barbara@...
                            Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 06:28:35 -0800
                            Subject: [John Muir Trail] Shelters

                             
                            I am very interested in the Lightheart Cuben fiber solo tent, at 12 ozs. A doublewall tent with vestibule that also has an awning option. Uses 2 trekking poles or they also offer poles. Can't be used as a poncho however, lol. Oh, and costs a fortune.

                            Barbara
                          • Kim Fishburn
                            I have a Stephenson Warmlite3 that I ve had since the early 80 s. It is 12 feet long and I had problems finding a place to set it up sometimes in the
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                              I have a Stephenson Warmlite3 that I've had since the early 80's. It is 12 feet long and I had problems finding a place to set it up sometimes in the mountains. At 4 lbs its hard to beat ( for a double layer tent) though and you could sleep 4 in a pinch. I had it at Voglesang HS Camp once on a real windy night. All the camp spots out of the wind were taken so I had to camp out in the open and I was the only person that got any sleep that night. In pictures from Mt McKinley you often see Stephenson tents. There 2 person single layer tent is pretty light too.


                            • Barbara Karagosian
                              11x 8. Hmm. But 12ozs!! Barbara
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                                11x 8.  Hmm. But 12ozs!!

                                 Barbara

                                On Jan 6, 2011, at 12:36 PM, Don Amundson <amrowinc@...> wrote:

                                 


                                So Barbara, do you have your 8'x12' tent sites picked out?  Just teasing, but it is a consideration and may limit your site choices in some areas of the JMT.

                                As an aside I was thinking about how some have stated they don't spend much time in their shelters which influences their choices.  My experience has certainly been different.  I'm in my shelter 10-12 hours. I tend to reach the day's destination, due the usual chores, exploration, cooking etc. and hit the sack at around 7pm.  I'm there until about 6am.  Seems like a lot of time to me. Just wondering what those who don't spend a lot of time in there shelters are doing.


                                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                From: barbara@...
                                Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 06:28:35 -0800
                                Subject: [John Muir Trail] Shelters

                                 
                                I am very interested in the Lightheart Cuben fiber solo tent, at 12 ozs. A doublewall tent with vestibule that also has an awning option. Uses 2 trekking poles or they also offer poles. Can't be used as a poncho however, lol. Oh, and costs a fortune.

                                Barbara

                              • Herb Stroh
                                Don- I guess what I meant was I don t spend a great deal of hanging out time in my shelter. My time in the bag is about the same as yours: I will be in my
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                                  Don—

                                   

                                  I guess what I meant was I don’t spend a great deal of “hanging out” time in my shelter. My time in the bag is about the same as yours: I will be in my bag between 7 and 8, listen to an audiobook for a bit, and sleep till 6 or so. While that is a lot of time, all I am doing in the shelter is sleeping. For that reason I do not feel like I need extra tent space. In fact, if the mosquitoes and weather cooperate, I will just cowboy camp.

                                   

                                  Herb


                                  From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Amundson
                                  Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 12:36 PM
                                  To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Shelters

                                   

                                   


                                  So Barbara, do you have your 8'x12' tent sites picked out?  Just teasing, but it is a consideration and may limit your site choices in some areas of the JMT.

                                  As an aside I was thinking about how some have stated they don't spend much time in their shelters which influences their choices.  My experience has certainly been different.  I'm in my shelter 10-12 hours. I tend to reach the day's destination, due the usual chores, exploration, cooking etc. and hit the sack at around 7pm.  I'm there until about 6am.  Seems like a lot of time to me. Just wondering what those who don't spend a lot of time in there shelters are doing.


                                • hmdsierra
                                  We usuall;y sit around the campfire until 11 or so and get up around 8 on our Fall trips. Summertime usually up a bit earlier but not much. We enjoy a
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                                    We usuall;y sit around the campfire until 11 or so and get up around 8 on our Fall trips. Summertime usually up a bit earlier but not much. We enjoy a leisurely start.


                                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@...> wrote:
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                                    > So Barbara, do you have your 8'x12' tent sites picked out? Just teasing, but it is a consideration and may limit your site choices in some areas of the JMT.
                                    >
                                    > As an aside I was thinking about how some have stated they don't spend much time in their shelters which influences their choices. My experience has certainly been different. I'm in my shelter 10-12 hours. I tend to reach the day's destination, due the usual chores, exploration, cooking etc. and hit the sack at around 7pm. I'm there until about 6am. Seems like a lot of time to me. Just wondering what those who don't spend a lot of time in there shelters are doing.
                                    >
                                    > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    > From: barbara@...
                                    > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 06:28:35 -0800
                                    > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Shelters
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                                    > I am very interested in the Lightheart Cuben fiber solo tent, at 12 ozs. A doublewall tent with vestibule that also has an awning option. Uses 2 trekking poles or they also offer poles. Can't be used as a poncho however, lol. Oh, and costs a fortune.
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                                    > Barbara
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                                  • Don Amundson
                                    Understood Herb. I was just joking around with some of the commentary. I suspect many are like you and me and spend more time in their shelters than they
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jan 6, 2011
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                                      Understood Herb.  I was just joking around with some of the commentary. I suspect many are like you and me and spend more time in their shelters than they realize. Most of it sleeping  with some time for entertainment thrown in--book, music etc.  I hiked with a gal last spring who spent hours in her tent before and after the usual meal cooking/camp chores.  She said she liked to futz around.  I was dying to find out what was in her futz kit but was afraid to ask.
                                      As a SMD wild oasis user I've never felt the need for more space anyway no matter what I'm doing in my shelter. I'll never be having visitors in it for sure.  I suppose if I did a base camp thing it might be different but I find I have all the room I need for me and my gear and have never felt cramped for space.


                                      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: hstroh@...
                                      Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 13:53:35 -0800
                                      Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Shelters

                                       

                                      Don—

                                       

                                      I guess what I meant was I don’t spend a great deal of “hanging out” time in my shelter. My time in the bag is about the same as yours: I will be in my bag between 7 and 8, listen to an audiobook for a bit, and sleep till 6 or so. While that is a lot of time, all I am doing in the shelter is sleeping. For that reason I do not feel like I need extra tent space. In fact, if the mosquitoes and weather cooperate, I will just cowboy camp.

                                       

                                      Herb


                                      .

                                    • John
                                      Hi Peter I wrote a long reply earlier but I guess for some reason it didn t get posted. To paraphrase that post: (I know you know much of this) ... In the high
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jan 7, 2011
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                                        Hi Peter

                                        I wrote a long reply earlier but I guess for some reason it didn't get posted.

                                        To paraphrase that post: (I know you know much of this)

                                        > I already have the shovel (first item I bought for the winter trip -
                                        > can't go wrong there). Not sure if I will go for the tarp tent in spite
                                        > of the tempting low weight - on slabs as you point out later a free
                                        > standing tent would be a much better option. I won't have the time to
                                        > dry out stuff in the afternoons very often, either - the Muir Trail is
                                        > too long to hang out for many daylight hours without moving, unless
                                        > drying out is absolutely necessary. Miles per day in winter are more
                                        > important than in summer, because resupplying is much more difficult.
                                        > And, as it stands right now, I will be solo - carry everything for one
                                        > person on one back.

                                        > No time for that when the goal is to cover the JMT in winter. I also
                                        > will not go in May (high water levels). My target window is late March
                                        > through late April. I want to have frozen lakes and no issues at Bear
                                        > Creek and Evolution... solo crossing these things in high icy water is
                                        > not on my list of must-do items. Still have not even decided if I want
                                        > to go south-north (sun in back, better snow on the downhill side), or
                                        > north-south (easier acclimation, know the trail that way better than my
                                        > own back yard)
                                        >

                                        In the high Sierra, late March usually = winter; late April usually=spring. We can have big dumps well into April. When planing such an excursion you have to weigh the chance of big storms against that of high water.

                                        On skis, in spring conditions, we can easily cover 10 to 12 miles in time for an afternoon sun session. In winter, sometimes it takes us 2 days to cover those same miles.

                                        When we skied the "JMT" we stayed high avoiding xings like Bear Creek and Evolution. When we skied the LeConte Divide we had to cross the SJ at MTR, that was hair raising.

                                        You will find that traveling the "trail" will not make sense in many places, picking your own route can be much more efficient.

                                        Exposed slabs can be non-existant that early. I would recommend a good tent as you may sit out some multi day storms.

                                        In spring we usually ski north to south as the the descents on the south sides are more consistently smooth corn snow.

                                        >
                                        > Does a bivy sack prevent moisture buildup inside a down bag? It may keep
                                        > the outside dry, but I was going to use a bag liner vapor barrier
                                        > instead of wrapping the bag inside another bag. Keeping the moisture out
                                        > of the down is key to staying warm long term (unless you can spend
                                        > entire afternoons drying out your stuff). I am still shopping for a -20F
                                        > bag, and may get one with a water-repellent shell just to combat that
                                        > outside moisture condensing on the bag issue. I already had that happen
                                        > at +20F on Whitney in 2009 in September and the sleeping bag more or
                                        > less collapsed around my face and chest. Really can't afford sleeping
                                        > bag performance issues on a long trip. I've even been looking at a
                                        > synthetic fill bag, just to make sure there's some insulation left if
                                        > everything else goes wrong.
                                        >

                                        No, a bivisack won't keep your bag dry over the long hall due to condensation. Even sans bivisack, if you don't plan on "dry" days or afternoons, then yes, I would recommend VBL's for your bag and your boots. Even with those you will probably have to "dry" a few times during the month.

                                        Also I have never seen -20 in the high country, eastside canyons yes. Not saying it can't happen, but...

                                        Also, don't know what you are planning for resupply, PM me if you want some ideas.

                                        JD
                                        Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                        www.johndittli.com
                                        .



                                        >
                                        >
                                      • ned@mountaineducation.org
                                        Just wanted to second what John said for advice: A March-April JMT ski tour can be one of the most exhilarating things you will ever do in the lower 48, so
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jan 17, 2011
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                                          Just wanted to "second" what John said for advice:
                                           
                                          A March-April JMT ski tour can be one of the most exhilarating things you will ever do in the lower 48, so plan it well. If the storms are still coming, expect slow, arduous days of skiing through powder where it is safe or waiting in your tent for a couple of days for the new snow to consolidate and become safer for avalanche conditions. If you can do 4 or 8 miles, you are doing well.
                                           
                                          That said, plan on going out as often as possible for resupply and bring in more food than you can imagine--if you don't eat it in the normal passage of days, you will for those spent waiting out storms and their aftermath!
                                           
                                          Therefore, a roomy, sturdy tent is priceless for keeping you warm and dry when all hell blows outside.
                                           
                                          Ever consider bring a sled to carry what you need? We did the last time we skied the trail, and didn't have a problem going over the passes or across the creeks (but they were all buried, so it was easy)!
                                           
                                           

                                          "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
                                           
                                          Ned Tibbits, Director
                                          Mountain Education
                                          1106A Ski Run Blvd
                                          South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
                                              P: 888-996-8333
                                              F: 530-541-1456
                                              C: 530-721-1551
                                              http://www.mountaineducation.org
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