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Fwd: From NPS.gov: Half Dome permits

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  • John Ladd
    I just got a response from the Yosemite NP on how a NorthBound JMT hiker can climb HalfDome, since you can t pick up a permit for Half Dome where you would
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 30, 2010
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      I just got a response from the Yosemite NP on how a NorthBound JMT hiker can climb HalfDome, since you can't pick up a permit for Half Dome where you would enter the trail (e.g., at a place like Whitney Portal or Vermilllion of Muir Trail Ranch).  He says you would "clearly" be allowed to climb Half Dome using only the same Forest Service permit that allowed you to enter the JMT South of YP.  See the message below.
       
      If you are a NoBo hiker and want to climb Half Dome before you exit down into Yosemite Valley, I'd print this and carry it with you in case there is some junior Ranger at the foot of the Half Dome cables who thinks you need a separate Half Dome Permit.
       
      Note that he also refers to "PCTA permits" - these are special permits yo can get from the Pacific Crest Trail Association (a private association that has limited permitting powers) for trips on 500+ miles of the PCT.  These permits seem a bit unpopular with various of the federal and state agencies, and they tend to get interpreted pretty narrowly -- to allow hiking on the PCT itself and not much else.  Since Half Dome is more than a day's hike from the PCT, it's not surprising that a PCTA permit would not allow a Half Dome ascent.

      John Curran Ladd
      1616 Castro Street
      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
      415-648-9279


      ---------- Forwarded message ----------
      From: <YOSE_Web_Manager@...>
      Date: Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 3:16 PM
      Subject: Re: From NPS.gov: Half Dome permits
      To: JohnLadd@...


      Sorry for the delayed response--I wanted to check a detail before replying.
       
      If someone has a wilderness permit from the USFS for a trip that reasonably includes Half Dome, they don't need a separate Half Dome permit. Someone hiking the JMT from south to north would clearly fit into that category.
       
      However, given the extreme popularity of the Half Dome/Little Yosemite Valley area, we're asking PCTA permit holders to get a separate wilderness permit if they want to camp in the greater Little Yosemite Valley/Sunrise Creek/Half Dome area.
      Jeffrey


      National Park Service
      Yosemite National Park
      http://www.nps.gov/yose/

      Follow us on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/YosemiteNPS

      -----JohnLadd@... wrote: -----

      To: yose_web_manager@...
      From: JohnLadd@...
      Date: 12/15/2010 09:06AM
      Subject: From NPS.gov: Half Dome permits

      Email submitted from: JohnLadd@... at /yose/contacts.htm


      I'm moderator of the JMT group at Yahoo! I'd like to tell our members about what a North Bound JMT hiker does about Half Dome. Say, she picked up a permit at the FS Station on Kaiser Pass Road for a start at Muir Trail Ranch and hiked North. Presumably that office does not have Half Dome permits. When she gets to the foot of the cables, will she get stopped? Can she pick up a Half Dome permit at Tuolumne? John Ladd




    • Ed Rodriguez
      Thanks John for following up on this. Hell I just might suck it up and face my fear of heights and climb half dome on my next trip.
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 30, 2010
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        Thanks John for following up on this. Hell I just might suck it up and face my fear of heights and climb half dome on my next trip. 


        From: John Ladd <johnladd@...>
        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 3:57:59 PM
        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Fwd: From NPS.gov: Half Dome permits

         

        I just got a response from the Yosemite NP on how a NorthBound JMT hiker can climb HalfDome, since you can't pick up a permit for Half Dome where you would enter the trail (e.g., at a place like Whitney Portal or Vermilllion of Muir Trail Ranch).  He says you would "clearly" be allowed to climb Half Dome using only the same Forest Service permit that allowed you to enter the JMT South of YP.  See the message below.
         
        If you are a NoBo hiker and want to climb Half Dome before you exit down into Yosemite Valley, I'd print this and carry it with you in case there is some junior Ranger at the foot of the Half Dome cables who thinks you need a separate Half Dome Permit.
         
        Note that he also refers to "PCTA permits" - these are special permits yo can get from the Pacific Crest Trail Association (a private association that has limited permitting powers) for trips on 500+ miles of the PCT.  These permits seem a bit unpopular with various of the federal and state agencies, and they tend to get interpreted pretty narrowly -- to allow hiking on the PCT itself and not much else.  Since Half Dome is more than a day's hike from the PCT, it's not surprising that a PCTA permit would not allow a Half Dome ascent.

        John Curran Ladd
        1616 Castro Street
        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
        415-648-9279


        ---------- Forwarded message ----------
        From: <YOSE_Web_Manager@...>
        Date: Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 3:16 PM
        Subject: Re: From NPS.gov: Half Dome permits
        To: JohnLadd@...


        Sorry for the delayed response--I wanted to check a detail before replying.
         
        If someone has a wilderness permit from the USFS for a trip that reasonably includes Half Dome, they don't need a separate Half Dome permit. Someone hiking the JMT from south to north would clearly fit into that category.
         
        However, given the extreme popularity of the Half Dome/Little Yosemite Valley area, we're asking PCTA permit holders to get a separate wilderness permit if they want to camp in the greater Little Yosemite Valley/Sunrise Creek/Half Dome area.
        Jeffrey


        National Park Service
        Yosemite National Park
        http://www.nps.gov/yose/

        Follow us on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/YosemiteNPS

        -----JohnLadd@... wrote: -----

        To: yose_web_manager@...
        From: JohnLadd@...
        Date: 12/15/2010 09:06AM
        Subject: From NPS.gov: Half Dome permits

        Email submitted from: JohnLadd@... at /yose/contacts.htm


        I'm moderator of the JMT group at Yahoo! I'd like to tell our members about what a North Bound JMT hiker does about Half Dome. Say, she picked up a permit at the FS Station on Kaiser Pass Road for a start at Muir Trail Ranch and hiked North. Presumably that office does not have Half Dome permits. When she gets to the foot of the cables, will she get stopped? Can she pick up a Half Dome permit at Tuolumne? John Ladd





      • Kim Fishburn
        Stephenson is now selling their down filled air mattress. http://warmlite.com/down-air-mattress-alone
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 30, 2010
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          Stephenson is now selling their down filled air mattress.

          http://warmlite.com/down-air-mattress-alone
        • Kim Fishburn
          A while back I d mentioned a few times when the snow melted really late in the season. I dug into my old pictures and found the ones with the snow. The first 4
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 2, 2011
          A while back I'd mentioned a few times when the snow melted really late in the season. I dug into my old pictures and found the ones with the snow. The first 4 pictures are ones I took about 1983 on the northwest border of Yosmite. There was a couple place where the snow was over 10 feet deep in the trees but for the most part it was about 3 to 5 feet deep in the trees. This was taken over the 4th of July weekend and they opened the road through Tuolumne Meadows just in time for the July 4th weekend.

          The last picture with 2 pictures on it is from Mt Lassen National Park I think in 1995. That year had a cold spring and early summer so the snow really didn't melt that year. I was going to school during the summer so I had to wait till the short break between summer and fall classes to go hiking. Most people going hiking in the mountains found that they could only go as far as the first major creek crossing before they had to turn around. I did a short hike in Yosemite before giving up and then heading up to Mt Lassen to hike. These two pictures were taken about mid August. There was a number of places where the snow was over 10 feet deep. The lake at the highest point along the road through the park never thawed out. I saw one guy near the road doing some telemark skiing. I got up to 8,000 ft in the park in the trees and spent considerable time trying to find my way through the trees due to the snow. Since the trail wasn't marked in the trees I had a hard time finding the trail in places. The hiking stores in Sacramento didn't do very good that year since it was so hard backpacking.

          These pictures don't really show how bad it really was. I was too busy trying to find the trail to think about taking a picture. I didn't enjoy hiking over the July 4th weekend in the first set of pictures. My feet got really wet quickly, and I was worried about hurting myself when post holing in the snow. The Mt Lassen hike was much better even though the snow was deeper. The trail didn't spend as much time in the snow, and I didn't do much post holing. Post Holing scares me. I'm worried that there might be a log or rock under the snow that will break a leg.

          Kim
        • Roleigh Martin
          Absolutely astonishing. I hope things are fine by July 21, 2011.
          Message 5 of 15 , Jan 2, 2011
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            Absolutely astonishing.  I hope things are fine by July 21, 2011.

            On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:
            [Attachment(s) from Kim Fishburn included below]

            A while back I'd mentioned a few times when the snow melted really late in the season. I dug into my old pictures and found the ones with the snow. The first 4 pictures are ones I took about 1983 on the northwest border of Yosmite. There was a couple place where the snow was over 10 feet deep in the trees but for the most part it was about 3 to 5 feet deep in the trees. This was taken over the 4th of July weekend and they opened the road through Tuolumne Meadows just in time for the July 4th weekend.

            ...
          • Kim Fishburn
            I know there has been a lot of snow so far, but the forecast is for things to be much drier for the remainder of the year. ________________________________
            Message 6 of 15 , Jan 2, 2011
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              I know there has been a lot of snow so far, but the forecast is for things to be much drier for the remainder of the year.



              From: Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...>
              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, January 2, 2011 10:45:17 PM
              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Snow in the past

               

              Absolutely astonishing.  I hope things are fine by July 21, 2011.

              On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:
              [Attachment(s) from Kim Fishburn included below]

              A while back I'd mentioned a few times when the snow melted really late in the season. I dug into my old pictures and found the ones with the snow. The first 4 pictures are ones I took about 1983 on the northwest border of Yosmite. There was a couple place where the snow was over 10 feet deep in the trees but for the most part it was about 3 to 5 feet deep in the trees. This was taken over the 4th of July weekend and they opened the road through Tuolumne Meadows just in time for the July 4th weekend.

              ...
            • paul.locasio
              Best method I have found to check snowpack is the CDEC site... find a location that gives daily info via satellite. Info I got from FS and NP rangers was flat
              Message 7 of 15 , Jan 3, 2011
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                Best method I have found to check snowpack is the CDEC site... find a location that gives daily info via satellite. Info I got from FS and NP rangers was flat out wrong. Over the past two summers I've been backpacking in the Eastern Sierras in early June where rangers claim there was too much snow and have kept roads closed into clear trailheads. http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/nearbymap?staid=RSH


                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:
                >
                > I know there has been a lot of snow so far, but the forecast is for things to be
                > much drier for the remainder of the year.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...>
                > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sun, January 2, 2011 10:45:17 PM
                > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Snow in the past
                >
                >
                > Absolutely astonishing. I hope things are fine by July 21, 2011.
                >
                >
                > On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:
                >
                > [Attachment(s) from Kim Fishburn included below]
                > >
                > >
                > >A while back I'd mentioned a few times when the snow melted really late in the
                > >season. I dug into my old pictures and found the ones with the snow. The first 4
                > >pictures are ones I took about 1983 on the northwest border of Yosmite. There
                > >was a couple place where the snow was over 10 feet deep in the trees but for the
                > >most part it was about 3 to 5 feet deep in the trees. This was taken over the
                > >4th of July weekend and they opened the road through Tuolumne Meadows just in
                > >time for the July 4th weekend.
                > >
                > >
                > >...
                >
              • Kim Fishburn
                I think it was John that mentioned carrying a whistle the other day. You can buy a replacement buckle for the sternum strap with the built in whistle here for
                Message 8 of 15 , Jan 13, 2011
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                  I think it was John that mentioned carrying a whistle the other day. You can buy a replacement buckle for the sternum strap with the built in whistle here for 75 cents. They also have kits for making tarps, backpacks etc.

                  http://www.questoutfitters.com/plastic.htm
                • Peter Burke
                  ... funny thing - I bought some of these at REI to come back home only to realize all my packs already had them, just not in orange (Osprey and Gregory packs).
                  Message 9 of 15 , Jan 13, 2011
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                    On 1/13/2011 12:44 PM, Kim Fishburn wrote:
                    I think it was John that mentioned carrying a whistle the other day. You can buy a replacement buckle for the sternum strap with the built in whistle here for 75 cents. They also have kits for making tarps, backpacks etc.

                    http://www.questoutfitters.com/plastic.htm

                    funny thing - I bought some of these at REI to come back home only to realize all my packs already had them, just not in orange (Osprey and Gregory packs). I never had noticed the odd shape of those buckles :-)




                  • Barbara Karagosian
                    I think neck is possibly safer than pack, since you and your neck are never parted- and if they are, it s likely too late for a whistle! Same for a Pgoton
                    Message 10 of 15 , Jan 13, 2011
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                      I think neck is possibly safer than pack, since you and your neck are never parted- and if they are, it's likely too late for a whistle!  Same for a Pgoton type flashlite too. 

                       Barbara

                      On Jan 13, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:

                       

                      On 1/13/2011 12:44 PM, Kim Fishburn wrote:

                      I think it was John that mentioned carrying a whistle the other day. You can buy a replacement buckle for the sternum strap with the built in whistle here for 75 cents. They also have kits for making tarps, backpacks etc.

                      http://www.questoutfitters.com/plastic.htm

                      funny thing - I bought some of these at REI to come back home only to realize all my packs already had them, just not in orange (Osprey and Gregory packs). I never had noticed the odd shape of those buckles :-)




                    • ed_rodriguez52@yahoo.com
                      Personally I have my whistle clip on to my person I bought a camel back clip (the one s that clip on the water holes) on at REI. Sent on the Sprint® Now
                      Message 11 of 15 , Jan 13, 2011
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                        Personally I have my whistle clip on to my person I bought a camel back clip (the one's that clip on the water holes) on at REI.

                        Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


                        From: Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...>
                        Sender: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 11:15:40 -0800
                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com<johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                        ReplyTo: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] whistle

                         

                        I think neck is possibly safer than pack, since you and your neck are never parted- and if they are, it's likely too late for a whistle!  Same for a Pgoton type flashlite too. 

                         Barbara

                        On Jan 13, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:

                         

                        On 1/13/2011 12:44 PM, Kim Fishburn wrote:

                        I think it was John that mentioned carrying a whistle the other day. You can buy a replacement buckle for the sternum strap with the built in whistle here for 75 cents. They also have kits for making tarps, backpacks etc.

                        http://www.questoutfitters.com/plastic.htm

                        funny thing - I bought some of these at REI to come back home only to realize all my packs already had them, just not in orange (Osprey and Gregory packs). I never had noticed the odd shape of those buckles :-)




                      • Karpani
                        I m with you here, Barbara . . . I hang mine on a thin piece of elastic, fairly close to the notch in my neck so if the whistle should get caught on anything,
                        Message 12 of 15 , Jan 13, 2011
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                          I'm with you here, Barbara . . . I hang mine on a thin piece of elastic, fairly close to the notch in my neck so if the whistle should get caught on anything, I don't strangle myself!:-)  It's very comfortable . . . hardly know it's there.
                          Karpani

                          --- On Thu, 1/13/11, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...> wrote:

                          From: Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...>
                          Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] whistle
                          To: "johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 11:15 AM

                           

                          I think neck is possibly safer than pack, since you and your neck are never parted- and if they are, it's likely too late for a whistle!  Same for a Pgoton type flashlite too. 

                           Barbara

                          On Jan 13, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:

                           

                          On 1/13/2011 12:44 PM, Kim Fishburn wrote:

                          I think it was John that mentioned carrying a whistle the other day. You can buy a replacement buckle for the sternum strap with the built in whistle here for 75 cents. They also have kits for making tarps, backpacks etc.

                          http://www.questoutfitters.com/plastic.htm

                          funny thing - I bought some of these at REI to come back home only to realize all my packs already had them, just not in orange (Osprey and Gregory packs). I never had noticed the odd shape of those buckles :-)




                        • Peter Burke
                          I was looking for some videos about Mountain Hardwear tents, and this is what I found... Many who have or will do the JMT have also been to White Mountain
                          Message 13 of 15 , Jan 13, 2011
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                            I was looking for some videos about Mountain Hardwear tents, and this
                            is what I found...

                            Many who have or will do the JMT have also been to White Mountain Peak,
                            to see the Bristlecone pines, to summit an easy 14,000er, acclimate,
                            have a grand view at the Sierras. This video covers a lot of the history
                            of the research station on that mountain, which is why we have a road up
                            to 11,000 feet and can get to the summit quickly

                            this video is about 59 minutes long, not 2:50 mins as the google page
                            indicates

                            http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2047786485328838547#docid=-6637271921111677914

                            "The University of California's White Mountain Research Station provides
                            science unprecedented access to unique environments, environments where
                            life exists at the edge of extremes. This award- winning documentary
                            weaves a story of how this unique access is yielding an understanding of
                            change, from physiology to climate, from the oldest known living
                            organism, to a short-lived beetle, and what this understanding means for
                            all."

                            there's a fuzzy flash version as well -
                            http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=6420
                          • Don Amundson
                            You re not alone Peter. A few years ago I was intrigued by my hiking partners sternum strap whistle only to realize I had one also. As I ve lowered my pack
                            Message 14 of 15 , Jan 13, 2011
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                              You're not alone Peter.  A few years ago I was intrigued by my hiking partners sternum strap whistle only to realize I had one also.  As I've lowered my pack weight I no longer use a sternum strap so I've had to take another approach, whistle wise.



                              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                              From: pburke@...
                              Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:55:45 -0600
                              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] whistle

                               
                              On 1/13/2011 12:44 PM, Kim Fishburn wrote:
                              I think it was John that mentioned carrying a whistle the other day. You can buy a replacement buckle for the sternum strap with the built in whistle here for 75 cents. They also have kits for making tarps, backpacks etc.

                              http://www.questoutfitters.com/plastic.htm

                              funny thing - I bought some of these at REI to come back home only to realize all my packs already had them, just not in orange (Osprey and Gregory packs). I never had noticed the odd shape of those buckles :-)





                            • Karpani
                              Wow!  Thanks, Peter!  This movie is really incredible.  I ve been up there among the Bristlecones a couple of times, photographing and just basically
                              Message 15 of 15 , Feb 11, 2011
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                                Wow!  Thanks, Peter!  This movie is really incredible.  I've been up there among the Bristlecones a couple of times, photographing and just basically enjoying their amazing existence.  This movie was a wonderful expansion of those experiences.  Thanks again for sharing . . . it makes a wonderful side-trip from the JMT, and a full on destination all its own:-)
                                Karpani
                                --- On Thu, 1/13/11, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:

                                From: Peter Burke <pburke@...>
                                Subject: [John Muir Trail] slightly off topic - White Mountains movie
                                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 1:54 PM

                                 

                                I was looking for some videos about Mountain Hardwear tents, and this
                                is what I found...

                                Many who have or will do the JMT have also been to White Mountain Peak,
                                to see the Bristlecone pines, to summit an easy 14,000er, acclimate,
                                have a grand view at the Sierras. This video covers a lot of the history
                                of the research station on that mountain, which is why we have a road up
                                to 11,000 feet and can get to the summit quickly

                                this video is about 59 minutes long, not 2:50 mins as the google page
                                indicates

                                http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2047786485328838547#docid=-6637271921111677914

                                "The University of California's White Mountain Research Station provides
                                science unprecedented access to unique environments, environments where
                                life exists at the edge of extremes. This award- winning documentary
                                weaves a story of how this unique access is yielding an understanding of
                                change, from physiology to climate, from the oldest known living
                                organism, to a short-lived beetle, and what this understanding means for
                                all."

                                there's a fuzzy flash version as well -
                                http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=6420

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