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Bears

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  • Kim Fishburn
    The San Francisco Chronicle has an article this morning on bears. I wish it had more on the backcountry but I still like the statistic that only 2.4% (18 out
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 27, 2010
      The San Francisco Chronicle has an article this morning on bears. I wish it had more on the backcountry but I still like the statistic that only 2.4% (18 out of 464) of the reported bear incidents in Yosemite occurred in the backcountry. Unfortunatly 40 bears were killed in the Tahoe area.

      http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/10/24/SP2H1FSQJS.DTL&type=homeandgarden

    • Kim Fishburn
      Antigravity gear has a new sleeping pad I m anxious to hear more about. Since I roll around a lot and don t sleep on my back I m not sure how well it would
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 5, 2010
        Antigravity gear has a new sleeping pad I'm anxious to hear more about. Since I roll around a lot and don't sleep on my back I'm not sure how well it would work with me but its 9.1 ounces for a full length pad.

        http://www.antigravitygear.com/klymit-inertia-x-frame-sleeping-pad.html
      • Barbara Karagosian
        I saw that too but wondered about the insulation for the open parts. Wouldn t you be on the ground for those parts? Cheers, Barbara
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 5, 2010
          I saw that too but wondered about the insulation for the open parts. Wouldn't you be on the ground for those parts?

          Cheers, Barbara

          On Nov 5, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:

           

          Antigravity gear has a new sleeping pad I'm anxious to hear more about. Since I roll around a lot and don't sleep on my back I'm not sure how well it would work with me but its 9.1 ounces for a full length pad.

          http://www.antigravitygear.com/klymit-inertia-x-frame-sleeping-pad.html

        • Kim Fishburn
          Normally you re sleeping bag is compressed when you lay on a sleeping pad. In the open areas you re sleeping bag will still have its loft so it should keep you
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 5, 2010
            Normally you're sleeping bag is compressed when you lay on a sleeping pad. In the open areas you're sleeping bag will still have its loft so it should keep you warm.



            From: Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...>
            To: "johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, November 5, 2010 6:51:34 PM
            Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Sleeping pads

             

            I saw that too but wondered about the insulation for the open parts. Wouldn't you be on the ground for those parts?

            Cheers, Barbara

            On Nov 5, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:

             

            Antigravity gear has a new sleeping pad I'm anxious to hear more about. Since I roll around a lot and don't sleep on my back I'm not sure how well it would work with me but its 9.1 ounces for a full length pad.

            http://www.antigravitygear.com/klymit-inertia-x-frame-sleeping-pad.html

          • Barbara Karagosian
            I ll be interested to hear some reviews. Cheers, Barbara
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 5, 2010
              I'll be interested to hear some reviews. 

              Cheers, Barbara

              On Nov 5, 2010, at 7:58 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:

               

              Normally you're sleeping bag is compressed when you lay on a sleeping pad. In the open areas you're sleeping bag will still have its loft so it should keep you warm.



              From: Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...>
              To: "johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, November 5, 2010 6:51:34 PM
              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Sleeping pads

               

              I saw that too but wondered about the insulation for the open parts. Wouldn't you be on the ground for those parts?

              Cheers, Barbara

              On Nov 5, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:

               

              Antigravity gear has a new sleeping pad I'm anxious to hear more about. Since I roll around a lot and don't sleep on my back I'm not sure how well it would work with me but its 9.1 ounces for a full length pad.

              http://www.antigravitygear.com/klymit-inertia-x-frame-sleeping-pad.html

            • Don Amundson
              There has been some discussion about this pad at BPL. I think reviews will be coming soon.
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 5, 2010
                There has been some discussion about this pad at BPL.  I think reviews will be coming soon.

                http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=38803

                One thing Klymit talks about on their site is that the in injection of argon gas will help with insulation in cold conditions. 

                NobleTek Insulation Enabled: Use the Klymitizer and argon KwikShot canister to "top off" and create a firm pad after mouth inflating, increasing warmth and firmness (not included). We recommend using the pad under a second pad when winter camping first, then adding NobleTek if necessary for additional insulation.

                Barbara--why don't you buy one and let us know how you like it.


                From: outhiking_55@...

                Normally you're sleeping bag is compressed when you lay on a sleeping pad. In the open areas you're sleeping bag will still have its loft so it should keep you warm.


                From: Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...>

                I saw that too but wondered about the insulation for the open parts. Wouldn't you be on the ground for those parts?

                Cheers, Barbara

                On Nov 5, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:

                Antigravity gear has a new sleeping pad I'm anxious to hear more about. Since I roll around a lot and don't sleep on my back I'm not sure how well it would work with me but its 9.1 ounces for a full length pad.

              • Ann Pfeil
                Aloha All! For my recent JMT trip I did something different and purchased the NeoAir vice taking a not the most comfortable but trust worthy ¾ cut up
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 6, 2010

                  Aloha All!

                   

                  For my recent JMT trip I did something different and purchased the NeoAir vice taking a not the most comfortable but trust worthy ¾ cut up RidgeRest.  To summarize, I did sleep more comfortably than I do on a RidgeRest for the first few hours it stayed inflated!  I ended up spending an inordinate amount of time blowing the damned thing up and looking for the leak!  From almost the very beginning of the trip I would have to roll off the mattress in the middle of the night, blow it back up and go back to sleep.  Irritating as all get out.  Old Corpus and I spent way too much time at VVR and Independence (with a bathtub) trying to find the leak.  One tiny “possible” pin prick hole found and not even sure that it was.  Sealed everything we could find and still spent the end of the hike blowing the thing up in the middle of the night.  We had heard that there had been an issue in the beginning with leaking valves but understood that issue to have been resolved.  We looked hard but we couldn’t find a leak there either.  In short, as soon as I have time Thermarest or REI and I are going to have a chat.  Expensive and, at this point, not worth the expense.

                   

                  Pros:  comfortable when initially inflated, allowed for full length and rolled down small

                  Cons: expensive, more weight, manual inflation, would not stay inflated (could not locate leak)

                  Would I recommend it to friends:  not right now but I may just have had a faulty one. 

                  Additional recommendations: take along the 1/8” Thinsulate pad in case yours doesn’t stay inflated either.  Burrrr…..

                   

                  Just my .02.  I will give change!

                   

                  Aloha! Ann

                • Roleigh Martin
                  If you have this problem on the trail, what you have to do is submerge the inflated pad under still water (a pond) and look for the air bubble. It is the best
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 6, 2010
                    If you have this problem on the trail, what you have to do is submerge the inflated pad under still water (a pond) and look for the air bubble.  It is the best way to discover the source of the leak.

                    I personally do not like the NeoAir -- I tried it for one month and took it back to REI. 

                    The new Thermarest 1" prolight is only 16 oz, full size, or the 5' long montbell pad is about same weight (1" thick).  I appreciate either of these two to get a good sleep.

                    On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Ann Pfeil <AlohAnn@...> wrote:


                    Aloha All!

                     

                    For my recent JMT trip I did something different and purchased the NeoAir vice taking a not the most comfortable but trust worthy ¾ cut up RidgeRest.  To summarize, I did sleep more comfortably than I do on a RidgeRest for the first few hours it stayed inflated!  I ended up spending an inordinate amount of time blowing the damned thing up and looking for the leak!  From almost the very beginning of the trip I would have to roll off the mattress in the middle of the night, blow it back up and go back to sleep.  Irritating as all get out.  Old Corpus and I spent way too much time at VVR and Independence (with a bathtub) trying to find the leak.  One tiny “possible” pin prick hole found and not even sure that it was.  Sealed everything we could find and still spent the end of the hike blowing the thing up in the middle of the night.  We had heard that there had been an issue in the beginning with leaking valves but understood that issue to have been resolved.  We looked hard but we couldn’t find a leak there either.  In short, as soon as I have time Thermarest or REI and I are going to have a chat.  Expensive and, at this point, not worth the expense.

                     

                    Pros:  comfortable when initially inflated, allowed for full length and rolled down small

                    Cons: expensive, more weight, manual inflation, would not stay inflated (could not locate leak)

                    Would I recommend it to friends:  not right now but I may just have had a faulty one. 

                    Additional recommendations: take along the 1/8” Thinsulate pad in case yours doesn’t stay inflated either.  Burrrr…..

                     

                    Just my .02.  I will give change!

                     

                    Aloha! Ann




                  • John Ladd
                    I ve had a happier experience with the NeoAir that Ann or Roleigh, but one perosn who has had a bad experienceis hardly balanced out by one or two with good
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 6, 2010
                      I've had a happier experience with the NeoAir that Ann or Roleigh, but one perosn who has had a bad experienceis  hardly balanced out by one or two with good experiences since noone wants to run a 50% or 33% risk of a leak.  I've generally used it as a second mattress (first one is a closed-cell like a Z-Lite) in part because of reliability concerns and partly because I like being very comfortable at night.  I carry a patch kit, but have not had to use it.

                      That said, I find it very comfortable and I like how it packs small.

                      John Curran Ladd
                      1616 Castro Street
                      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                      415-648-9279


                      On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Ann Pfeil <AlohAnn@...> wrote:
                       

                      Aloha All!

                       

                      For my recent JMT trip I did something different and purchased the NeoAir vice taking a not the most comfortable but trust worthy ¾ cut up RidgeRest.  To summarize, I did sleep more comfortably than I do on a RidgeRest for the first few hours it stayed inflated!  I ended up spending an inordinate amount of time blowing the damned thing up and looking for the leak!  From almost the very beginning of the trip I would have to roll off the mattress in the middle of the night, blow it back up and go back to sleep.  Irritating as all get out.  Old Corpus and I spent way too much time at VVR and Independence (with a bathtub) trying to find the leak.  One tiny “possible” pin prick hole found and not even sure that it was.  Sealed everything we could find and still spent the end of the hike blowing the thing up in the middle of the night.  We had heard that there had been an issue in the beginning with leaking valves but understood that issue to have been resolved.  We looked hard but we couldn’t find a leak there either.  In short, as soon as I have time Thermarest or REI and I are going to have a chat.  Expensive and, at this point, not worth the expense.

                       

                      Pros:  comfortable when initially inflated, allowed for full length and rolled down small

                      Cons: expensive, more weight, manual inflation, would not stay inflated (could not locate leak)

                      Would I recommend it to friends:  not right now but I may just have had a faulty one. 

                      Additional recommendations: take along the 1/8” Thinsulate pad in case yours doesn’t stay inflated either.  Burrrr…..

                       

                      Just my .02.  I will give change!

                       

                      Aloha! Ann


                    • Don Amundson
                      Hi Ann--Aren t inflatable pads fun! Give me pad and I ll put a hole in it. My old Thermarest ProLite 4 has an interesting polka dot pattern with all the
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 6, 2010
                        Hi Ann--Aren't inflatable pads fun! Give me pad and I'll put a hole in it.  My old Thermarest ProLite 4 has an interesting polka dot pattern  with all the patches. I don't mind holes so much if they were easy to find.  I really relate to the time you spent trying to find the leak in your NeoAir.  I spent an hour trying to find a leak in mine dipping it in shallow lake below Pinchot pass.   I was about to give up when suddenly the telltale stream of bubbles appeared. I had another leak later I discovered before going on anther trip and spent a long time in the bathtub like you before I found it.  That's the bad news but for what it's worth I have about 26 trail nights of peaceful sleep on it without further leaking. REI should take it back/ exchange it without question.

                        Additional Recommendations: I agree.  My NeoAir is the short model and I use the GG 1/8" Thinsolate pad under it and my legs.  So far it has worked into the 20's using a quilt.
                        ---------------------------------------------------

                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                        From: AlohAnn@...
                        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re:Sleeping pads

                         
                        Aloha All!

                         

                        For my recent JMT trip I did something different and purchased the NeoAir vice taking a not the most comfortable but trust worthy ¾ cut up RidgeRest.  To summarize, I did sleep more comfortably than I do on a RidgeRest for the first few hours it stayed inflated!  I ended up spending an inordinate amount of time blowing the damned thing up and looking for the leak!  From almost the very beginning of the trip I would have to roll off the mattress in the middle of the night, blow it back up and go back to sleep.  Irritating as all get out.  Old Corpus and I spent way too much time at VVR and Independence (with a bathtub) trying to find the leak.  One tiny “possible” pin prick hole found and not even sure that it was.  Sealed everything we could find and still spent the end of the hike blowing the thing up in the middle of the night.  We had heard that there had been an issue in the beginning with leaking valves but understood that issue to have been resolved.  We looked hard but we couldn’t find a leak there either.  In short, as soon as I have time Thermarest or REI and I are going to have a chat.  Expensive and, at this point, not worth the expense.

                         

                        Pros:  comfortable when initially inflated, allowed for full length and rolled down small

                        Cons: expensive, more weight, manual inflation, would not stay inflated (could not locate leak)

                        Would I recommend it to friends:  not right now but I may just have had a faulty one. 

                        Additional recommendations: take along the 1/8” Thinsulate pad in case yours doesn’t stay inflated either.  Burrrr…..

                         

                        Just my .02.  I will give change!

                         

                        Aloha! Ann


                      • Joe
                        My wife tried a NeoAir on our JMT trip this summer. She loved it - she likes to sleep on her side, so the inflatable pad was way more comfortable than a
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 7, 2010
                          My wife tried a NeoAir on our JMT trip this summer. She loved it - she likes to sleep on her side, so the inflatable pad was way more comfortable than a normal foam pad. She also let me try it for a night, and I loved it as well, and bought one for myself after we got back. I also love how small it packs down.

                          However, my wife's NeoAir did develop a hole after about 30 days of use, while we were on a trip to the Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne (by the way, this area was amazing - highly recommended!) "Luckily," the tear was reasonably large (1/4 inch clean slice on the bottom), and we found it within a few seconds of submerging the fully inflated pad in a river. We also had a repair kit, so it ended up being a minor issue. Still not sure where the hole came from - maybe a rock or small, sharp stick that made its way into our tent? Hopefully we don't experience any tiny, harder-to-find holes in the future, but it would probably only take me a few mornings of waking up on a flat, uninflated pad to convince me to go back to my trusty ProLite.
                        • Ann Pfeil
                          Aloha All! Alright, I admit it - I did not dunk the mattress in any of the many gorgeous lakes I passed. I should have since that would have given me a bigger
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 7, 2010

                            Aloha All!

                             

                            Alright, I admit it – I did not dunk the mattress in any of the many gorgeous lakes I passed.  I should have since that would have given me a bigger surface than a water hose and table at VVR and a bathtub in Independence.  With that said I also must admit one other thing – I’m a weenie.  Those lakes were absolutely gorgeous and so desiring of a good swim but alas – I really am a big weenie – too damned cold!  Hammock Hanger would strip down, or not, and dive right in.  That would be a heart attack waiting to happen for me!  I slowly, ever so slowly, creep my way into the water.  (Why is it people that do that always raise their hands/arms over their head as they do so?)  Even with swimming to warm up I can’t stay in long.  Think it may be the 20 years in Hawaiian waters that makes everything else so cold.  Friends think I have a huge tolerance to pain due to the numerous breaks on the trail.  I don’t.  I have a huge survival instinct and then I become a weenie when I’m somewhere other able-bodied people can take over.  Cold water not out of necessity (personal hygiene in the field) is just not part of my survival instinct!  Anyway, you’re absolutely right, I should have used the lakes; probably would have made my life so much more comfortable.  Live, learn and remember what you lived and learned!

                             

                            Aloha! Ann  

                          • Barbara Karagosian
                            Thanks for the suggestion Don - after you! _____ From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Amundson Sent:
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 7, 2010

                              Thanks for the suggestion Don – after you!

                               


                              From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Amundson
                              Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 10:15 PM
                              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Sleeping pads

                               

                               

                              There has been some discussion about this pad at BPL.  I think reviews will be coming soon.

                              http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=38803

                              One thing Klymit talks about on their site is that the in injection of argon gas will help with insulation in cold conditions. 

                              NobleTek Insulation Enabled: Use the Klymitizer and argon KwikShot canister to "top off" and create a firm pad after mouth inflating, increasing warmth and firmness (not included). We recommend using the pad under a second pad when winter camping first, then adding NobleTek if necessary for additional insulation.

                              Barbara--why don't you buy one and let us know how you like it.


                              From: outhiking_55@...

                              Normally you're sleeping bag is compressed when you lay on a sleeping pad. In the open areas you're sleeping bag will still have its loft so it should keep you warm.

                               


                              From: Barbara Karagosian < barbara@... >

                              I saw that too but wondered about the insulation for the open parts. Wouldn't you be on the ground for those parts?


                              Cheers, Barbara


                              On Nov 5, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:

                              Antigravity gear has a new sleeping pad I'm anxious to hear more about. Since I roll around a lot and don't sleep on my back I'm not sure how well it would work with me but its 9.1 ounces for a full length pad.

                               

                            • Don Amundson
                              Hey Ann--I never said I jumped in the lake. I am a cold water weenie too (don t go any further with that comment). I actually found a lake with a nice grassy
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 7, 2010
                                Hey Ann--I never said I jumped in the lake.  I am a cold water weenie too (don't go any further with that comment).  I actually found a lake with a nice grassy bank to sit on and soak my feet in. I figured that while I was doing that I would find the pesky leak in my NeoAir. It was by pure luck that I found it. 


                                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                From: AlohAnn@...
                                Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 11:54:22 -0500
                                Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Sleeping pads

                                 

                                Aloha All!

                                 

                                Alright, I admit it – I did not dunk the mattress in any of the many gorgeous lakes I passed.  I should have since that would have given me a bigger surface than a water hose and table at VVR and a bathtub in Independence.  With that said I also must admit one other thing – I’m a weenie.  Those lakes were absolutely gorgeous and so desiring of a good swim but alas – I really am a big weenie – too damned cold!  Hammock Hanger would strip down, or not, and dive right in.  That would be a heart attack waiting to happen for me!  I slowly, ever so slowly, creep my way into the water.  (Why is it people that do that always raise their hands/arms over their head as they do so?)  Even with swimming to warm up I can’t stay in long.  Think it may be the 20 years in Hawaiian waters that makes everything else so cold.  Friends think I have a huge tolerance to pain due to the numerous breaks on the trail.  I don’t.  I have a huge survival instinct and then I become a weenie when I’m somewhere other able-bodied people can take over.  Cold water not out of necessity (personal hygiene in the field) is just not part of my survival instinct!  Anyway, you’re absolutely right, I should have used the lakes; probably would have made my life so much more comfortable.  Live, learn and remember what you lived and learned!

                                 

                                Aloha! Ann  



                              • Ann Pfeil
                                Aloha John! Dang! Another smart man! Okay, I did do lots of foot soaking in rivers and lakes and yet still did not mess with the pad. I never said I was the
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 8, 2010

                                  Aloha John!

                                   

                                  Dang!  Another smart man!  Okay, I did do lots of foot soaking in rivers and lakes and yet still did not mess with the pad.  I never said I was the brightest bulb in the box!  Well, truth be known, once my pack is packed it takes an awful lot for me to go back into it.  Due to the bear can my NeoAir was rolled and placed along one side at the bottom.  I wasn’t going to remove or alter the balance of my pack unless I had to.  My food stuffs for the day are placed on the very top and anything else I may need close at hand.  Old habits die hard; once packed for the day it’s packed until nightfall (emergencies excluded of course).  So you see, sad to admit, most of my nightly discomfort was caused by  -- me!  Still, I’ll continue to recommend something beneath the mattress just to give another slight layer of insulation and add a touch of additional protection.  Can’t hurt!  Now, as for you also being a big cold water weenie - 

                                   

                                  Aloha! Ann

                                • Roleigh Martin
                                  Therer is a You Tube video on this sleeping pad. The logic is that the open parts would let your goose down sleeping bag fluff out for those spots and the
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Nov 9, 2010
                                    Therer is a You Tube video on this sleeping pad.  The logic is that the open parts would let your goose down sleeping bag fluff out for those spots and the warming in the fluffed out down would keep you warm there.  I'd love to try this out but buying and not liking and then having to sell used, no.

                                    On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    I saw that too but wondered about the insulation for the open parts. Wouldn't you be on the ground for those parts?

                                    Cheers, Barbara

                                    On Nov 5, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    Antigravity gear has a new sleeping pad I'm anxious to hear more about. Since I roll around a lot and don't sleep on my back I'm not sure how well it would work with me but its 9.1 ounces for a full length pad.

                                    http://www.antigravitygear.com/klymit-inertia-x-frame-sleeping-pad.html


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