Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

UL Sleeping bag

Expand Messages
  • Bronco
    I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt,
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 9, 2010
      I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
    • Barbara Karagosian
      How cold is a cold night ? I think a space blanket might make you very wet from lack of breathability (just guessing). Do you wear a hat at night (polartec
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 9, 2010

        How cold is a “cold night”?  I think a space blanket might make you very wet from lack of breathability (just guessing). Do you wear a hat at night (polartec or wool or fleece beanie?).  How about your pad?  What is the R-rating for that?  Sometimes that can make a difference.  Also, what are you using for shelter?  A shelter that lets wind in, such as a tarptent with netting round the bottom, maybe a bit breezy which might chill you – in which case maybe an ultralight waterproof/breathable  bivy round your sleeping bag might cut the wind.  I have an Equinox bivy that weighs about 6ozs.  These are not true bivies in the sense of instead of a tent, but more an extra layer to cut  the draft.  Some people also use sleeping bag liners (like silk ones), but I am not sure how effective they are.  I think they may add another 5-10 degrees but I do know they make getting into and out of the bag a PITA.

         

        Hope this helps – Barbara (Boomerang!)    

         


        From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bronco
        Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:51 PM
        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag

         

         

        I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?

      • ed_rodriguez52@yahoo.com
        It sound like you got a good layer system in place. You may want to look into a flee liner for your bag. The problem with a space blanket is how many time you
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 9, 2010
          It sound like you got a good layer system in place. You may want to look into a flee liner for your bag. The problem with a space blanket is how many time you can use it before it falls apart on you. Well for me a person has to find the right balance between the weight of your bag and how much extra weight (in warm clothes) to keep you warm at night.

          Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


          From: "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...>
          Sender: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 -0000
          To: <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
          ReplyTo: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag

           

          I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?

        • Peter Burke
          ... I d just get a warmer bag :-) Space blankets are great if your bag is wet and you have nothing else, but there s a moisture problem with those. Bottom line
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 10, 2010
            On 9/9/2010 11:50 PM, Bronco wrote:
            > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras?

            I'd just get a warmer bag :-)

            Space blankets are great if your bag is wet and you have nothing else,
            but there's a moisture problem with those. Bottom line - for comfortable
            sleeping in cold weather, get a bag made for cold weather. Everything
            else is just going to ruin your trip, or at least make you hate the
            night between each day.

            The thing about wearing clothes inside the bag is that you're moving
            your maximum insulation capability to a low temperature contrast zone,
            i.e. the temp difference between the clothing outside and the outside
            air being lower than what it would be if you wore no clothes or barely
            any within the bag. It becomes less efficient. you want stuff on the
            outside of the bag, or a better tent, etc. This here right from REI's site:

            "Avoid overdressing before you hop into your bag. Wearing bulky clothing
            inside a bag can create interior empty spaces and reduce the bag's
            ability to efficiently trap body heat. Instead, drape items such as a
            jacket on the outside top of your bag for an extra layer of insulation."

            I think the ultra light bags are also cut so narrow and tight that
            stuffing them with a body wearing fleece clothing may already diminish
            its maximum loft by stuffing the interior space too tightly, though that
            really depends on your size relative to the bag. At the weight you
            indicate, I'd say the bag you have is probably as tight as they come
            (aren't those Montbells the stretchy thingies? May not be an issue, but
            I've seen that the lighter the bag, the narrower they are cut to save
            weight on the fabric). they also drop the full length zippers, which for
            me is a show stopper. Doesn't really affect cold nights, but since most
            nights in the Sierra are relatively warm, not having the ability to use
            a bag as a loose blanket makes it essentially useless for me. In July
            2010, I didn't zip my 25 degree bag once in 19 days up there.

            Also, biggest item for me to stay warm in a sleeping bag is to wear a
            fleece beanie - the amount of body heat leaving my body through the head
            is probably half of the heat loss I experience at night, and that starts
            well before the temps drop down low enough to even care to zip the bag
            shut or even put the hood of the bag over my head.
          • Kim Fishburn
            I was freezing my butt off in the Wind River Range last week, with ice inside and outside my Tarptent Squall2. I tried zipping my down coat up and sticking it
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 10, 2010
              I was freezing my butt off in the Wind River Range last week, with ice inside and outside my Tarptent Squall2. I tried zipping my down coat up and sticking it over the foot of my sleeping bag and it worked quite well.


              From: Peter Burke <pburke@...>
              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 8:39:10 AM
              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag

               

              On 9/9/2010 11:50 PM, Bronco wrote:
              > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras?

              I'd just get a warmer bag :-)

              Space blankets are great if your bag is wet and you have nothing else,
              but there's a moisture problem with those. Bottom line - for comfortable
              sleeping in cold weather, get a bag made for cold weather. Everything
              else is just going to ruin your trip, or at least make you hate the
              night between each day.

              The thing about wearing clothes inside the bag is that you're moving
              your maximum insulation capability to a low temperature contrast zone,
              i.e. the temp difference between the clothing outside and the outside
              air being lower than what it would be if you wore no clothes or barely
              any within the bag. It becomes less efficient. you want stuff on the
              outside of the bag, or a better tent, etc. This here right from REI's site:

              "Avoid overdressing before you hop into your bag. Wearing bulky clothing
              inside a bag can create interior empty spaces and reduce the bag's
              ability to efficiently trap body heat. Instead, drape items such as a
              jacket on the outside top of your bag for an extra layer of insulation."

              I think the ultra light bags are also cut so narrow and tight that
              stuffing them with a body wearing fleece clothing may already diminish
              its maximum loft by stuffing the interior space too tightly, though that
              really depends on your size relative to the bag. At the weight you
              indicate, I'd say the bag you have is probably as tight as they come
              (aren't those Montbells the stretchy thingies? May not be an issue, but
              I've seen that the lighter the bag, the narrower they are cut to save
              weight on the fabric). they also drop the full length zippers, which for
              me is a show stopper. Doesn't really affect cold nights, but since most
              nights in the Sierra are relatively warm, not having the ability to use
              a bag as a loose blanket makes it essentially useless for me. In July
              2010, I didn't zip my 25 degree bag once in 19 days up there.

              Also, biggest item for me to stay warm in a sleeping bag is to wear a
              fleece beanie - the amount of body heat leaving my body through the head
              is probably half of the heat loss I experience at night, and that starts
              well before the temps drop down low enough to even care to zip the bag
              shut or even put the hood of the bag over my head.

            • rwilly001
              It also makes a big difference what you re sleeping on and in. Do you have a pad and tent or are you going UL all the way? Sorry if this is painfully obvious,
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 10, 2010
                It also makes a big difference what you're sleeping on and in. Do you have a pad and tent or are you going UL all the way? Sorry if this is painfully obvious, but keeping as much cold as possible away from the outside of the bag is a good place to start keeping the warm in.
              • John Ladd
                I m also in favor of more bag loft than the Montbel, but the following has worked for me in getting extra warmth out of a bag when I don t have quite enough
                Message 7 of 30 , Sep 10, 2010
                  I'm also in favor of more bag loft than the Montbel, but the following has worked for me in getting extra warmth out of a bag when I don't have quite enough bag for the weather

                  1) If you add extra insulation, try to add it evenly.  Add as much extra insulation to your bottom as your top.  Therefore, if you decide to add clothing to your top half, add a similar amount to your bottom half (including socks on your feet).  Otherwise your legs or feet get really cold.

                  2) I find down clothing inside a down bag works poorly, presumable because it overcompresses everything.  Fleece inside down has worked better for me.  Also, with down clothing it is harder to insulate your top and bottom evenly because people tend to bring down tops but not down bottoms.  I carry a lightweight fleece layer in summer, and heavier fleece in the shoulder seasons and heavy fleece in winter.  I bring down only if I am really sure that I won't run into cold rain.  I've tried a down parka outside a bag, but never suceeded in keeping it on - I guess I twist and turn too much.

                  3) I love using a double pad all year, but especially in colder weather - a closed cell foam pad like a Z-lite plus a air-filled like a ProLite or (for warmer weather) NeoAir.  Yes, I know it's heavier but for me the extra warmth is worth it.  I suppose in really cold weather I'd consider 2 closed-cell foam pads.

                  4) I love a hooped bivy for it's added warmth, especially when buttoned up tight.  When I tried using a conventional GoreTex bivy, I got so much condensation that my bag got wetter as the trip went on (and therefore colder each night)

                  5) I like both silk long underwear worn as pajamas and silk liners both to keep my bag clean and add some warmth without appreciable effects in over-compressing other insulation layers. I also wear cotton liner socks.

                  6) I wear a lightweight balaclava always and keep a beenie handy for extra-cold nights.  In winter I carry both a light balaclava and a wool one.

                  7) A top and bottom fleece layer (lightweiight in summer, heavier in the cold) does good double duty for warmth day and night.  Obviusly, you have to be careful to keep it dry during the day if you want to use at night

                  8) In a last-resort pinch, your raingear will add surprising warmth (if it is dry) though it makes you feel clammy.  It traps an extra layer of insulating air without affecting the loft of your other insulation layers.

                  9) SealSkinz waterproof socks will keep your feet very toasty.  They can double as socks in camp at night under something like crocs.  They are expensive but I've liked mine:

                  http://www.rei.com/product/678045

                  10) I often carry a space blanket, but I have NO experience using it.

                  John Curran Ladd
                  1616 Castro Street
                  San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                  415-648-9279


                  On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bronco <dawgbronco@...> wrote:
                   

                  I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?


                • John Ladd
                  We all forgot one more thing about warmth: Calories keep you warm. If you eat close to the number of calories you are burning, you should sleep a little
                  Message 8 of 30 , Sep 10, 2010
                    We all forgot one more thing about warmth:

                    Calories keep you warm.  If you eat close to the number of calories you are burning, you should sleep a little warmer each night as your basal metabolism rate increases due to the extra exercise.

                    But if you are eating, say, 1200+ calories short of your burn rate, it's likely that your body will soon start to try to save energy by reducing your basal metabolism and dropping your temperature.

                    When you eat also matters, at least for me.  A healthy serving of chocolate and almonds before I go to bed seems to help keep me warm.  In the winter, when there aren't bear issues, I also take some high-sugar food in the middle of the night if I feel cold.  Sugars warm you up quickly.  Fats keep you warm longer.

                    John Curran Ladd
                    1616 Castro Street
                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                    415-648-9279


                    On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bronco <dawgbronco@...> wrote:
                     

                    I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?


                  • Don Amundson
                    Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short
                    Message 9 of 30 , Sep 10, 2010
                      Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you.  My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly.  Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice.  Between the tent, bag, liner and  layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner.  I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.

                      My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt,  short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka,  Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer.  I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.

                      My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering  with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.

                      Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).




                      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                      From: dawgbronco@...
                      Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                      Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag

                       
                      I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?

                      My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly is full on and tight.
                      I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                      Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.




                    • Kim Fishburn
                      One other thing you can do it get a vapor barrier. Western Mountaineering sells their HotSac VBL which weights 4.5 ounces that will add about10 degrees warmth.
                      Message 10 of 30 , Sep 10, 2010
                        One other thing you can do it get a vapor barrier. Western Mountaineering sells their HotSac VBL which weights 4.5 ounces that will add about10 degrees warmth. When I've used a vapor barrier in the past I found I had to wear long underwear but it did keep me warmer. On a longer trip it also prevents the down from picking up vapor from your body. John mentioned eating enough. I've also found that if I didn't drink enough water that I was cold. The trick is to not drink so much that I'm having to get up a lot at night.

                        I have a Thermarest air mattress with the diamond shapes cut out of the foam to make it lighter. I find that it doesn't work well when its cold. Air doesn't insulate.


                        From: Bronco <dawgbronco@...>
                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 11:50:56 PM
                        Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag

                         

                        I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?

                      • John Ladd
                        Slight disagreement with Kim. Air does insulate, when trapped and still. It s the air trapped in the down feathers that insulates you, not the down itself.
                        Message 11 of 30 , Sep 10, 2010
                          Slight disagreement with Kim.

                          Air does insulate, when trapped and still.  It's the air trapped in the down feathers that insulates you, not the down itself.  (That's why down doesn't do you much good where you lie on it, because your weight squeezes out all the air.)

                          Cutting holes in things actually results in less trapped air between you and the cold, because other things will fill the hole and press out the air.  Especially in closed cell foam, the foam traps the air as tiny bubbles where it can do the most good.  Cutting large-ish holes interferes with that and I expect it explains why a Therma-Rest ProLite, for example (mine has the same diamond-shaped cuts that Kim mentions) has a lower R-rating than a full closed cell pad like the Z-lite or the Ridgerest models made by the same company.  My prolite seems to be a bit warmer when I inflate it a bit tighter than comfort would suggest.  I think that keeps the diamond-shaped holes from collapsing.

                          I agree with her on vapor barriers.  The reason rain gear works is that it acts as a vapor barrier.  And, unlike a dedicated sleeping layer vapor barrier, raingear had a dual use.  On the other hand, a dedicated vapor barrier for sleeping will stay dry, and your raingear is likely to get wet.  So it's a tradeoff.   But if you are cold and nothing else is available, dry raingear can really help.  And on a trip where you have enough warm stuff (without using the raingear in your bag overnight)  to protect you in cold rain conditions, the raingear can take you the next 10-15 degrees to deal with freezing conditions (e.g., when it is cold enough that you won't get rain -- you'll get snow or be dry).

                          John Curran Ladd
                          1616 Castro Street
                          San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                          415-648-9279


                          On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:
                           

                          One other thing you can do it get a vapor barrier. Western Mountaineering sells their HotSac VBL which weights 4.5 ounces that will add about10 degrees warmth. When I've used a vapor barrier in the past I found I had to wear long underwear but it did keep me warmer. On a longer trip it also prevents the down from picking up vapor from your body. John mentioned eating enough. I've also found that if I didn't drink enough water that I was cold. The trick is to not drink so much that I'm having to get up a lot at night.

                          I have a Thermarest air mattress with the diamond shapes cut out of the foam to make it lighter. I find that it doesn't work well when its cold. Air doesn't insulate.

                        • John Ladd
                          Kim (copy to all) I hear a gender correction is in order in my thoughts about your recent posting. I should have remembered you from the member photo area.
                          Message 12 of 30 , Sep 10, 2010
                            Kim (copy to all)

                            I hear a gender correction is in order in my thoughts about your recent posting.

                            I should have remembered you from the "member photo" area.

                            On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 12:53 PM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                            Slight disagreement with Kim.

                            ...
                             
                            I agree with HIM on vapor barriers. 


                            John Curran Ladd
                            1616 Castro Street
                            San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                            415-648-9279


                            On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:
                             

                            One other thing you can do it get a vapor barrier. ...

                          • Kim Fishburn
                            I ve gotten used to it so no problem. I used to also get strange looks when I went to Korea. They re not used to seeing someone named Kim that is white, 6
                            Message 13 of 30 , Sep 10, 2010
                              I've gotten used to it so no problem. I used to also get strange looks when I went to Korea. They're not used to seeing someone named Kim that is white, 6' tall with a beard.



                              From: John Ladd <johnladd@...>
                              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 5:02:14 PM
                              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag

                               

                              Kim (copy to all)

                              I hear a gender correction is in order in my thoughts about your recent posting.

                              I should have remembered you from the "member photo" area.

                              On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 12:53 PM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:

                              Slight disagreement with Kim.

                              ...
                               
                              I agree with HIM on vapor barriers. 


                              John Curran Ladd
                              1616 Castro Street
                              San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                              415-648-9279


                              On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55@...> wrote:
                               

                              One other thing you can do it get a vapor barrier. ...

                            • Bronco
                              Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I m thinking of making my own.
                              Message 14 of 30 , Sep 14, 2010
                                Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.

                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                >
                                > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                >
                                > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                >
                                > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: dawgbronco@...
                                > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                >
                                > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                > is full on and tight.
                                >
                                > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                >
                                > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                >
                              • eaglepdub
                                I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                Message 15 of 30 , Sep 14, 2010
                                  I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!

                                  http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm

                                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                  >
                                  > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                  > >
                                  > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                  > >
                                  > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                  > >
                                  > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > From: dawgbronco@
                                  > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                  > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                  > >
                                  > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                  > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                  > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                  > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                  > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                  > > is full on and tight.
                                  > >
                                  > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                  > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                  > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                  > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                  > >
                                  > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Jean Dickinson
                                  I just bought a Nunatak Arc Alpinest - 20 degrees, 23 oz., with toe box but no zippers (like a quilt). I m curious what you use for a pad when hiking in summer
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Sep 14, 2010
                                    I just bought a Nunatak Arc Alpinest - 20 degrees, 23 oz., with toe box but no zippers (like a quilt). I'm curious what you use for a pad when hiking in summer and fall. This will be my first time without a sleeping bag that doesn't surround me. 
                                     Jean

                                    To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: eaglepdub@...
                                    Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 03:48:35 +0000
                                    Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag

                                     
                                    I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!

                                    http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm

                                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                    >
                                    > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                    > >
                                    > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                    > >
                                    > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                    > >
                                    > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > From: dawgbronco@
                                    > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                    > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                    > >
                                    > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                    > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                    > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                    > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                    > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                    > > is full on and tight.
                                    > >
                                    > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                    > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                    > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                    > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                    > >
                                    > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                    > >
                                    >


                                  • Bronco
                                    Exactly what I m looking for!!! I m going to order the Back Country Blanket. The foot bed may be too toasty for me in that Arc Alpinist. Thank you so much!
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                      Exactly what I'm looking for!!! I'm going to order the Back Country Blanket. The foot bed may be too toasty for me in that Arc Alpinist. Thank you so much!

                                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "eaglepdub" <eaglepdub@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                      >
                                      > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                      >
                                      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > From: dawgbronco@
                                      > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                      > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                      > > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                      > > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                      > > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                      > > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                      > > > is full on and tight.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                      > > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                      > > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                      > > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • eaglepdub
                                      I use a Big Agnes insulated Air core, which I love with the combination of this pad and quilt I have never slept better. Exped also makes a down filled pad
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                        I use a Big Agnes insulated Air core, which I love with the combination of this pad and quilt I have never slept better. Exped also makes a down filled pad that I understand is excellent.

                                        http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Pad/InsulatedAirCore

                                        http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_na.nsf

                                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Jean Dickinson <jeandickinson@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I just bought a Nunatak Arc Alpinest - 20 degrees, 23 oz., with toe box but no zippers (like a quilt). I'm curious what you use for a pad when hiking in summer and fall. This will be my first time without a sleeping bag that doesn't surround me.
                                        > Jean
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        > From: eaglepdub@...
                                        > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 03:48:35 +0000
                                        > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                        >
                                        > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                        >
                                        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > From: dawgbronco@
                                        > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                        > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                        > > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                        > > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                        > > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                        > > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                        > > > is full on and tight.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                        > > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                        > > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                        > > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Bronco
                                        I have the BA insulated air pad (24 oz.)and it has served me well. That Exped pad is heavier at 31 oz. Looking forward to this combo!
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                          I have the BA insulated air pad (24 oz.)and it has served me well. That Exped pad is heavier at 31 oz. Looking forward to this combo!

                                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "eaglepdub" <eaglepdub@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I use a Big Agnes insulated Air core, which I love with the combination of this pad and quilt I have never slept better. Exped also makes a down filled pad that I understand is excellent.
                                          >
                                          > http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Pad/InsulatedAirCore
                                          >
                                          > http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_na.nsf
                                          >
                                          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Jean Dickinson <jeandickinson@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > I just bought a Nunatak Arc Alpinest - 20 degrees, 23 oz., with toe box but no zippers (like a quilt). I'm curious what you use for a pad when hiking in summer and fall. This will be my first time without a sleeping bag that doesn't surround me.
                                          > > Jean
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > From: eaglepdub@
                                          > > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 03:48:35 +0000
                                          > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                          > >
                                          > > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > From: dawgbronco@
                                          > > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                          > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                          > > > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                          > > > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                          > > > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                          > > > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                          > > > > is full on and tight.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                          > > > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                          > > > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                          > > > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Barbara Karagosian
                                          I m interested why some of you choose a quilt? My Phantom 15 bag is 32oz and Thermarest pad (r rating 2.6) is 16ozs = 48 ozs. An Alpinist quilt plus BA air
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                            I'm interested why some of you choose a quilt? My Phantom 15 bag is 32oz and Thermarest pad (r rating 2.6) is 16ozs = 48 ozs. 
                                            An Alpinist quilt plus BA air core comes to 47ozs. 
                                            So apart from weight, what are the advantages of the quilt?
                                            I'd like to try something new but want to drop weight too, if poss, and stay warm!

                                            Cheers, Barbara

                                            On Sep 15, 2010, at 11:48 AM, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:

                                             

                                            I have the BA insulated air pad (24 oz.)and it has served me well. That Exped pad is heavier at 31 oz. Looking forward to this combo!

                                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "eaglepdub" <eaglepdub@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I use a Big Agnes insulated Air core, which I love with the combination of this pad and quilt I have never slept better. Exped also makes a down filled pad that I understand is excellent.
                                            >
                                            > http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Pad/InsulatedAirCore
                                            >
                                            > http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_na.nsf
                                            >
                                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Jean Dickinson <jeandickinson@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > I just bought a Nunatak Arc Alpinest - 20 degrees, 23 oz., with toe box but no zippers (like a quilt). I'm curious what you use for a pad when hiking in summer and fall. This will be my first time without a sleeping bag that doesn't surround me.
                                            > > Jean
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > From: eaglepdub@
                                            > > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 03:48:35 +0000
                                            > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                            > >
                                            > > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > From: dawgbronco@
                                            > > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                            > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                            > > > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                            > > > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                            > > > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                            > > > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                            > > > > is full on and tight.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                            > > > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                            > > > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                            > > > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >

                                          • Greg Kittridge
                                            I currently us a Nunatak Specialist and absolutely adore it. It weighs approximately 18 oz and I have taken it down as low as the 30 s and slept comfortably.
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010

                                              I currently us a Nunatak Specialist and absolutely adore it. It weighs approximately 18 oz and I have taken it down as low as the 30's and slept comfortably. My pad is a Gossamer Gear pad, so my entire sleep system is under 30 oz. Not bragging at all, and I am sure others have more comfortable pads, but weight savings was my main priority with this setup. Not sure you can find a down sleeping bag that will take you into the mid 30's comfortably @ less than 20oz.

                                              I also like the flexibility a quilt provides. I can easily slip a leg out if I am sleeping warm, or cinch it down around me when cold. My last bag was only a half zip so this wasn't possible.

                                              Just my $.02

                                              On Sep 15, 2010 2:59 PM, "Barbara Karagosian" <barbara@...> wrote:
                                              > I'm interested why some of you choose a quilt? My Phantom 15 bag is 32oz and Thermarest pad (r rating 2.6) is 16ozs = 48 ozs.

                                              > An Alpinist quilt plus BA air core comes to 47ozs.
                                              > So apart from weight, what are the advantages of the quilt?
                                              > I'd like to try something new but want to drop weight too, if poss, and stay warm!
                                              >
                                              > Cheers, Barbara
                                              >
                                              > On Sep 15, 2010, at 11:48 AM, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >> I have the BA insulated air pad (24 oz.)and it has served me well. That Exped pad is heavier at 31 oz. Looking forward to this combo!
                                              >>
                                              >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "eaglepdub" <eaglepdub@...> wrote:
                                              >> >
                                              >> > I use a Big Agnes insulated Air core, which I love with the combination of this pad and quilt I have never slept better. Exped also makes a down filled pad that I understand is excellent.
                                              >> >
                                              >> > http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Pad/InsulatedAirCore
                                              >> >
                                              >> > http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_na.nsf
                                              >> >
                                              >> > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Jean Dickinson <jeandickinson@> wrote:
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > > I just bought a Nunatak Arc Alpinest - 20 degrees, 23 oz., with toe box but no zippers (like a quilt). I'm curious what you use for a pad when hiking in summer and fall. This will be my first time without a sleeping bag that doesn't surround me.
                                              >> > > Jean
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                              >> > > From: eaglepdub@
                                              >> > > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 03:48:35 +0000
                                              >> > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                              >> > > >
                                              >> > > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                              >> > > >
                                              >> > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                              >> > > > > From: dawgbronco@
                                              >> > > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                              >> > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                              >> > > > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                              >> > > > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                              >> > > > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                              >> > > > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                              >> > > > > is full on and tight.
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                              >> > > > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                              >> > > > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                              >> > > > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                              >> > > > >
                                              >> > > >
                                              >> > >
                                              >> >
                                              >>
                                              >>

                                            • Michael Ding
                                              That is what I am wondering too. Maybe we should discuss the total weight for sleeping gears(sleeping bag, pad, tent, clothes,... etc) for sleeping warm
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                                That is what I am wondering too. Maybe we should discuss the total weight for sleeping gears(sleeping bag, pad, tent, clothes,... etc) for sleeping warm instead of the single items.

                                                My existing gears are:
                                                1. Marmot 15 degree bag: 2lb 12 oz
                                                or North face 30 degree bag: 1lb 7 oz
                                                2. Prolite 4 pad (R 3.2). 24 oz
                                                3. BA fly creek 2 person tent 2lb 4 oz.

                                                I am hoping that I don't need the 15 degree bag, in my Aug JMT trip, I never needed to zip up 15 degree bag and I don't put on extra clothes in sleeping. But not sure 30 degree bag is warm enough.

                                                Michael

                                                On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...> wrote:
                                                 

                                                I'm interested why some of you choose a quilt? My Phantom 15 bag is 32oz and Thermarest pad (r rating 2.6) is 16ozs = 48 ozs. 
                                                An Alpinist quilt plus BA air core comes to 47ozs. 
                                                So apart from weight, what are the advantages of the quilt?
                                                I'd like to try something new but want to drop weight too, if poss, and stay warm!

                                                Cheers, Barbara

                                                On Sep 15, 2010, at 11:48 AM, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:

                                                 

                                                I have the BA insulated air pad (24 oz.)and it has served me well. That Exped pad is heavier at 31 oz. Looking forward to this combo!

                                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "eaglepdub" <eaglepdub@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I use a Big Agnes insulated Air core, which I love with the combination of this pad and quilt I have never slept better. Exped also makes a down filled pad that I understand is excellent.
                                                >
                                                > http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Pad/InsulatedAirCore
                                                >
                                                > http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_na.nsf
                                                >
                                                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Jean Dickinson <jeandickinson@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > I just bought a Nunatak Arc Alpinest - 20 degrees, 23 oz., with toe box but no zippers (like a quilt). I'm curious what you use for a pad when hiking in summer and fall. This will be my first time without a sleeping bag that doesn't surround me.
                                                > > Jean
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > From: eaglepdub@
                                                > > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 03:48:35 +0000
                                                > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                                > >
                                                > > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > From: dawgbronco@
                                                > > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                                > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                                > > > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                                > > > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                                > > > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                                > > > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                                > > > > is full on and tight.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                                > > > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                                > > > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                                > > > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >


                                              • eaglepdub
                                                Barbara, For me it is all about the comfort, the weight saving is just a bonus! First of all the Big Agnes pad is 2.5 inches of soft squishy comfort vs most of
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                                  Barbara, For me it is all about the comfort, the weight saving is just a bonus!

                                                  First of all the Big Agnes pad is 2.5 inches of soft squishy comfort vs most of the Thermarest are 1.75. I am not thin so the extra cushy really helps me to rest well. As far as the quilt goes again I am not a petite man and I have always found mummy bags just too confining for me, I wake in the middle of the night after I am all twisted up and feel like I am in a straight jacket.

                                                  I first read about quilts in Ray Jardines book Beyond Backpacking, he was a real pioneer in the ultra light movement. I have always slept with my sleeping bag draped over me just like a quilt anyways so for me the quilt was just a natural step forward. I have been using quilts now for the past 5 seasons, I will never go back to the confining ways of a bag.

                                                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I'm interested why some of you choose a quilt? My Phantom 15 bag is 32oz and Thermarest pad (r rating 2.6) is 16ozs = 48 ozs.
                                                  > An Alpinist quilt plus BA air core comes to 47ozs.
                                                  > So apart from weight, what are the advantages of the quilt?
                                                  > I'd like to try something new but want to drop weight too, if poss, and stay warm!
                                                  >
                                                  > Cheers, Barbara
                                                  >
                                                  > On Sep 15, 2010, at 11:48 AM, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > > I have the BA insulated air pad (24 oz.)and it has served me well. That Exped pad is heavier at 31 oz. Looking forward to this combo!
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "eaglepdub" <eaglepdub@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I use a Big Agnes insulated Air core, which I love with the combination of this pad and quilt I have never slept better. Exped also makes a down filled pad that I understand is excellent.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Pad/InsulatedAirCore
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_na.nsf
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Jean Dickinson <jeandickinson@> wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > I just bought a Nunatak Arc Alpinest - 20 degrees, 23 oz., with toe box but no zippers (like a quilt). I'm curious what you use for a pad when hiking in summer and fall. This will be my first time without a sleeping bag that doesn't surround me.
                                                  > > > > Jean
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > From: eaglepdub@
                                                  > > > > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 03:48:35 +0000
                                                  > > > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > > From: dawgbronco@
                                                  > > > > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                                  > > > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                                  > > > > > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                                  > > > > > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                                  > > > > > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                                  > > > > > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                                  > > > > > > is full on and tight.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                                  > > > > > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                                  > > > > > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                                  > > > > > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • Dale Stuart
                                                  For what its worth :    The Marmot Helium 15 degree bag is 31oz, when going to the quilt you will save about a 8 oz., but for how much $$$    I have a
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                                    For what its worth :
                                                       The Marmot Helium 15 degree bag is 31oz, when going to the quilt you will save about a 8 oz., but for how much $$$
                                                     
                                                       I have a MYOG version of THE ONE shelter.  After 3 days of rain in North Cascades the 1.3oz silnylon wetted out and I was spritzed on all night. (it wasn't a big deal - my last night on trail) The shelter had soaked in 13oz of water, which put my shelter system to 40oz., Which makes your 36oz tent seem ok if you have bad or even marginal weather.
                                                     
                                                       It goes back to the,"What if's".  What if it gets cold, What if it snows, What if its windy, What if ....
                                                     
                                                        Plan your sleep system ahead of time, be prepared and everything should be fine.  ie; shave 8oz (over the Marmot) and bring the 30 degree bag and plan to drape your down jacket over you (in the bag), wear your fleece bottoms and wool hat (which you have with you anyways) if it gets too cold.  Or just bring the Marmot and pay the 8oz penalty and still keep the clothing options just in case.
                                                     
                                                    Dale Stuart
                                                    onetwolaugh@...



                                                    From: Michael Ding <michaeljding@...>
                                                    To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 12:23:14 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag

                                                     

                                                    That is what I am wondering too. Maybe we should discuss the total weight for sleeping gears(sleeping bag, pad, tent, clothes,... etc) for sleeping warm instead of the single items.

                                                    My existing gears are:
                                                    1. Marmot 15 degree bag: 2lb 12 oz
                                                    or North face 30 degree bag: 1lb 7 oz
                                                    2. Prolite 4 pad (R 3.2). 24 oz
                                                    3. BA fly creek 2 person tent 2lb 4 oz.

                                                    Please strip out "replied-to" text if not necessary to your reply.  Failure to strip makes it hard for our Daily Digest members to find the new postings among the repeats.
                                                    .


                                                  • John Ladd
                                                    I ll add my thoughts as well 1) I ve had no experience with quilts, so can t really comment beyond saying that when it gets cold, I have found that I get a lot
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                                      I'll add my thoughts as well

                                                      1) I've had no experience with quilts, so can't really comment beyond saying that when it gets cold, I have found that I get a lot of extra warmth from zipping a conventional down mummy bag up real tight.  It seems to me that the advantages of being able to zip in tight are substantial.

                                                      2) I'm a side sleeper and turn back and forth a lot at night.  I recognize the argument that the down at the bottom of a bag gets compressed, and therefore is surplus weight, but given how much I turn in the night, I never know what part of the bag will be under me, so having 360 degree down around me makes sense, I think, for me and for other people who don't sleep all night flat on their backs.

                                                      3) In my experience, a mummy bag does not need to be confining.  I don't move inside tit -- it moves with me.  But overly tight would mean that I couldn't supplement the bag on extra-cold nights by wearing some extra clothing inside the bag.  For me a tight but not overly mummy works best.  If I needed a new bag (I don't) I'd bring the heaviest pile layer I might bring along, and my rain gear with me, and get inside the bag with them on and see if I fit without starting to compress the down.

                                                      4) Going a bit heavier on a tent-pad-bag combination has two functions.  If you run into unexpectedly adverse weather (cold rain or snow), an extra 8-16 oz. might make a difference in safety.  And the same 8-16 oz, if well chosen, can add a lot to comfort for every night of the trip.  I tend to think my slightly more-than-needed combination is worth the added weight when I consider the combination of greater comfort all the time and greater safety in the worst-case scenario.  For me, the combined advantages of safety and comfort are worth an added 8-16 oz. on the margin - e.g., just a bit more weight than the minimum I assume I could probably "get away with" on any given trip.

                                                      5) As several folks have already noted, the combination is important.  A warmer sleeping pad allows you to get away with less bag.  A tighter tent/bivy is warmer and can replace some pad and bag.  Especially if you are counting on down to keep you warm, you better make sure it keeps dry with a tent/bivy that protects against (1) condensation (2) wind-blown rain and (3) water wicking up from the ground.  You are only as safe as the weakest link in your protection.

                                                      John Curran Ladd
                                                      1616 Castro Street
                                                      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                                      415-648-9279


                                                      On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Dale Stuart <onetwolaugh@...> wrote:
                                                       

                                                      For what its worth :
                                                         The Marmot Helium 15 degree bag is 31oz, when going to the quilt you will save about a 8 oz., but for how much $$$
                                                       
                                                         I have a MYOG version of THE ONE shelter.  After 3 days of rain in North Cascades the 1.3oz silnylon wetted out and I was spritzed on all night. (it wasn't a big deal - my last night on trail) The shelter had soaked in 13oz of water, which put my shelter system to 40oz., Which makes your 36oz tent seem ok if you have bad or even marginal weather.
                                                       
                                                         It goes back to the,"What if's".  What if it gets cold, What if it snows, What if its windy, What if ....
                                                       
                                                          Plan your sleep system ahead of time, be prepared and everything should be fine.  ie; shave 8oz (over the Marmot) and bring the 30 degree bag and plan to drape your down jacket over you (in the bag), wear your fleece bottoms and wool hat (which you have with you anyways) if it gets too cold.  Or just bring the Marmot and pay the 8oz penalty and still keep the clothing options just in case.
                                                       
                                                      Dale Stuart
                                                      onetwolaugh@...



                                                      From: Michael Ding <michaeljding@...>
                                                      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 12:23:14 PM

                                                      Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag

                                                       

                                                      That is what I am wondering too. Maybe we should discuss the total weight for sleeping gears(sleeping bag, pad, tent, clothes,... etc) for sleeping warm instead of the single items.



                                                      My existing gears are:
                                                      1. Marmot 15 degree bag: 2lb 12 oz
                                                      or North face 30 degree bag: 1lb 7 oz
                                                      2. Prolite 4 pad (R 3.2). 24 oz
                                                      3. BA fly creek 2 person tent 2lb 4 oz.

                                                      Please strip out "replied-to" text if not necessary to your reply.  Failure to strip makes it hard for our Daily Digest members to find the new postings among the repeats.
                                                      .



                                                    • Don Amundson
                                                      To answer your question Bronco, albeit late since you ve pulled the trigger on the Nanutak already! Please let us all know how it works out for you. I have a
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                                        To answer your question Bronco, albeit late since you've pulled the trigger on the Nanutak already!  Please let us all know how it works out for you.
                                                         I have a GoLite Ultra 20 quilt.  It weighs 21oz. in the long size. I see they have them on sale now at $135 but of course they are out of stock.  The latest version of this bag is about 28oz. I suspect they needed to add some feathers to get it closer to the listed rating.
                                                        A was very skeptical of a quilt at first thinking about losing warm air when turning or having cold air blow under the edges.  So far it just hasn't happened and I have been in some cold, wet and very windy conditions in a SMD Wild Oasis tarp. I'm not a back sleeper but as I mention before, a cold sleeper.  I'll be covered with blankets, even over my head at home and my wife will be under a sheet. On the trail I'm rolling from side to stomach to the other side with fair regularity.  Apparently I roll under the bag rather than taking moving with it so the warm air stays trapped. I've never reached a point of failure (not warm) with my sleep system nor have I had to pull out all stops to do so.  In other words I still have additional layers I could add for colder conditions.
                                                        Commenting on those wondering about the advantages of a quilt, it is about the weight for me.  Since we're doing a show me yours show you mine I'll weigh in:

                                                        1. GoLite Ultra 20 quilt    1lb. 5oz.
                                                        2. Neoair Short  R2.5    9oz.
                                                        3. GG Thinlight 1/8" R .45 insulation pad under legs    2oz.
                                                        4. SMD Wild Oasis w/ stakes and Kite Tyvek ground sheet    20oz.

                                                        Total  3lbs. 5oz.

                                                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                        From: dawgbronco@...

                                                         
                                                        Exactly what I'm looking for!!! I'm going to order the Back Country Blanket. The foot bed may be too toasty for me in that Arc Alpinist. Thank you so much!

                                                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "eaglepdub" <eaglepdub@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                                        >
                                                        > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                                        > > >
                                                        _,___
                                                      • Bronco
                                                        I am stoked on this quilt. I ordered it and it has to be custom made, takes 6-8 weeks. Maybe the temps here in Hawaii will drop enough this winter. I haven t
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                                          I am stoked on this quilt. I ordered it and it has to be custom made, takes 6-8 weeks. Maybe the temps here in Hawaii will drop enough this winter. I haven't seen it lower than 59 in my 20 years here.
                                                          Like some here I am a fetal sleeper and I alternate sides a few times a night. Bags have to be wide or I feel confined. And my body heats and chills in a rhythm so adjusting a bag to accommodate, zipping, unzipping, feet in, feet out, shoulders out, etc. makes for sporadic sleep. My best nights have been with a rectangle bag unzipped and blanket style but, oh my, the weight.
                                                          Here's my new weight...I hike with my son or my brother so we share tent weight:)

                                                          Nunatak Back Country Blanket: 22 oz.

                                                          Big Agnes Air Core: 22 oz.

                                                          One half of Tarptent Squall 2: 16 oz.

                                                          One half Tyvek ground cloth: 4 oz.

                                                          Total: 4 lb.

                                                          Going with a bigger tent next season. Might be three of us so the BA SL3 or the Hogback...still, shared weight keeps my load at or under 5 lb.


                                                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Exactly what I'm looking for!!! I'm going to order the Back Country Blanket. The foot bed may be too toasty for me in that Arc Alpinist. Thank you so much!
                                                          >
                                                          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "eaglepdub" <eaglepdub@> wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                                          > >
                                                          > > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                                          > >
                                                          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > > From: dawgbronco@
                                                          > > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                                          > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                                          > > > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                                          > > > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                                          > > > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                                          > > > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                                          > > > > is full on and tight.
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                                          > > > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                                          > > > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                                          > > > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                        • Barbara Karagosian
                                                          Try polycro groundsheet, if you need one at all. 3ozs total! Cheers, Barbara
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                                            Try polycro groundsheet, if you need one at all. 3ozs total!

                                                            Cheers, Barbara

                                                            On Sep 15, 2010, at 4:17 PM, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:

                                                             

                                                            I am stoked on this quilt. I ordered it and it has to be custom made, takes 6-8 weeks. Maybe the temps here in Hawaii will drop enough this winter. I haven't seen it lower than 59 in my 20 years here.
                                                            Like some here I am a fetal sleeper and I alternate sides a few times a night. Bags have to be wide or I feel confined. And my body heats and chills in a rhythm so adjusting a bag to accommodate, zipping, unzipping, feet in, feet out, shoulders out, etc. makes for sporadic sleep. My best nights have been with a rectangle bag unzipped and blanket style but, oh my, the weight.
                                                            Here's my new weight...I hike with my son or my brother so we share tent weight:)

                                                            Nunatak Back Country Blanket: 22 oz.

                                                            Big Agnes Air Core: 22 oz.

                                                            One half of Tarptent Squall 2: 16 oz.

                                                            One half Tyvek ground cloth: 4 oz.

                                                            Total: 4 lb.

                                                            Going with a bigger tent next season. Might be three of us so the BA SL3 or the Hogback...still, shared weight keeps my load at or under 5 lb.

                                                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > Exactly what I'm looking for!!! I'm going to order the Back Country Blanket. The foot bed may be too toasty for me in that Arc Alpinist. Thank you so much!
                                                            >
                                                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "eaglepdub" <eaglepdub@> wrote:
                                                            > >
                                                            > > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                                            > >
                                                            > > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                                            > >
                                                            > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > > > > From: dawgbronco@
                                                            > > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                                            > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                                            > > > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                                            > > > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                                            > > > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                                            > > > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                                            > > > > is full on and tight.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                                            > > > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                                            > > > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                                            > > > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > >
                                                            >

                                                          • Don Amundson
                                                            Cripes Bronco! Forget the quilt for Hawaii. At 59 degrees a bag liner would be enough. You could get serious light at that kind of minimum temp. Barbara s
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                                              Cripes Bronco! Forget the quilt for Hawaii. At 59 degrees a bag liner would be enough. You could get serious light at that kind of minimum temp.
                                                              Barbara's suggestion of a Polycro groundsheet is worth considering. I have one from MLD that measures 60" X 96" (5' X 9') 2.4oz
                                                              I used one from GG which is half that size on a 180 mile hike and it shredded half way through but I was using it with a tarp shelter so I was laying directly on it.  Since you have a floor in Squall consider not using a ground cloth.
                                                              As a compromise there is Kite Tyvek that is lighter than the standard house wrap.  I currently use it and am happy with its durability so far.

                                                              http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/24_162/products_id/666?osCsid=aa6cede8e4708df3429796fca3051a34



                                                              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                              From: barbara@...
                                                              Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 16:32:29 -0700
                                                              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag

                                                               

                                                              Try polycro groundsheet, if you need one at all. 3ozs total!

                                                              Cheers, Barbara

                                                              On Sep 15, 2010, at 4:17 PM, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:

                                                               
                                                              I am stoked on this quilt. I ordered it and it has to be custom made, takes 6-8 weeks. Maybe the temps here in Hawaii will drop enough this winter. I haven't seen it lower than 59 in my 20 years here.
                                                              Like some here I am a fetal sleeper and I alternate sides a few times a night. Bags have to be wide or I feel confined. And my body heats and chills in a rhythm so adjusting a bag to accommodate, zipping, unzipping, feet in, feet out, shoulders out, etc. makes for sporadic sleep. My best nights have been with a rectangle bag unzipped and blanket style but, oh my, the weight.
                                                              Here's my new weight...I hike with my son or my brother so we share tent weight:)

                                                              Nunatak Back Country Blanket: 22 oz.

                                                              Big Agnes Air Core: 22 oz.

                                                              One half of Tarptent Squall 2: 16 oz.

                                                              One half Tyvek ground cloth: 4 oz.

                                                              Total: 4 lb.

                                                              Going with a bigger tent next season. Might be three of us so the BA SL3 or the Hogback...still, shared weight keeps my load at or under 5 lb.

                                                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Exactly what I'm looking for!!! I'm going to order the Back Country Blanket. The foot bed may be too toasty for me in that Arc Alpinist. Thank you so much!
                                                              >
                                                              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "eaglepdub" <eaglepdub@> wrote:
                                                              > >
                                                              > > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                                              > >
                                                              > > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                                              > >
                                                              > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > > > From: dawgbronco@
                                                              > > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                                              > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                                              > > > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                                              > > > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                                              > > > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                                              > > > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                                              > > > > is full on and tight.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                                              > > > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                                              > > > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                                              > > > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > >
                                                              >



                                                            • Bronco
                                                              Yeah, I m thinking about losing the groundcloth. I keep a tidy camp and it all starts with the tent site. Hawaii is a UL s dream...until you consider water.
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Sep 15, 2010
                                                                Yeah, I'm thinking about losing the groundcloth. I keep a tidy camp and it all starts with the tent site.
                                                                Hawaii is a UL's dream...until you consider water. There's none or little or poison so you have to carry and, dude, carry a lot. I am considering a cross-Koolau trek (no trail-that's the mountain spine of Oahu). Looking for a partner since there will be trail-cutting and hazards. My dog is useless with his three legs. I have to wait on him to cool down during mid-day.
                                                                Anyone want to join me? Twenty drink minimum.

                                                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@...> wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > Cripes Bronco! Forget the quilt for Hawaii. At 59 degrees a bag liner would be enough. You could get serious light at that kind of minimum temp.
                                                                > Barbara's suggestion of a Polycro groundsheet is worth considering. I have one from MLD that measures 60" X 96" (5' X 9') 2.4oz
                                                                > I used one from GG which is half that size on a 180 mile hike and it shredded half way through but I was using it with a tarp shelter so I was laying directly on it. Since you have a floor in Squall consider not using a ground cloth.
                                                                > As a compromise there is Kite Tyvek that is lighter than the standard house wrap. I currently use it and am happy with its durability so far.
                                                                >
                                                                > http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/24_162/products_id/666?osCsid=aa6cede8e4708df3429796fca3051a34
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > From: barbara@...
                                                                > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 16:32:29 -0700
                                                                > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > Try polycro groundsheet, if you need one at all. 3ozs total!
                                                                > Cheers, Barbara
                                                                > On Sep 15, 2010, at 4:17 PM, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@...> wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > I am stoked on this quilt. I ordered it and it has to be custom made, takes 6-8 weeks. Maybe the temps here in Hawaii will drop enough this winter. I haven't seen it lower than 59 in my 20 years here.
                                                                >
                                                                > Like some here I am a fetal sleeper and I alternate sides a few times a night. Bags have to be wide or I feel confined. And my body heats and chills in a rhythm so adjusting a bag to accommodate, zipping, unzipping, feet in, feet out, shoulders out, etc. makes for sporadic sleep. My best nights have been with a rectangle bag unzipped and blanket style but, oh my, the weight.
                                                                >
                                                                > Here's my new weight...I hike with my son or my brother so we share tent weight:)
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > Nunatak Back Country Blanket: 22 oz.
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > Big Agnes Air Core: 22 oz.
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > One half of Tarptent Squall 2: 16 oz.
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > One half Tyvek ground cloth: 4 oz.
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > Total: 4 lb.
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > Going with a bigger tent next season. Might be three of us so the BA SL3 or the Hogback...still, shared weight keeps my load at or under 5 lb.
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > Exactly what I'm looking for!!! I'm going to order the Back Country Blanket. The foot bed may be too toasty for me in that Arc Alpinist. Thank you so much!
                                                                >
                                                                > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "eaglepdub" <eaglepdub@> wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > I just wanted to pit my 2cents in! I love my Nunatak quilt 20 degrees 21 onces and I can litteraly stuff in inside a 1 liter widemouth Nalgen bottle!
                                                                >
                                                                > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm
                                                                >
                                                                > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Bronco" <dawgbronco@> wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > Don, where did you find a 20 degree quilt? I'm thinking of making my own.
                                                                >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Don Amundson <amrowinc@> wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > Everyone has an opinion as expected. Bottom line is that the answer to staying warm has to come from you. My opinion is to try your sleeping system on a short trip in weather conditions you expect and adjust accordingly. Two years ago I started preping for backpacking having been out of the game for 50+ years. I considered myself a cold sleeper. I had a 30 degree synthetic bag and liner, self inflating sleeping pad, light tent and a highly recommended backpack (per REI). On my first outing I ran into overnight freezing temps and a tent covered with ice. Between the tent, bag, liner and layering my clothing I was able to "manage" meaning I got to sleep but didn't feel the system was going to work in the Sierra with the potential for even colder temps. Since then I have sold the bag, backpack and liner. I use the fleece top once or twice a year but not for backpacking.
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > My gear has since evolved to a tarp type tent, 20 degree quilt, short neoair pad, 1/8" Evazote foam insulation pad, synthetic parka, Primaloft booties, silk weight long john bottoms and a buff type head neck covering. This has served me well in overnight freezing temps, high winds and hail/snow in the Sierras during the summer. I have yet to be cold and have other options for layering if the temps get lower than the basic system covers. Most times I sleep with a lot less than the full layering. Obviously for winter backpacking additions to the system would be required.
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > My personal experience is that there is minimal air flow under the open base of my tarp type tent , layering with clothing in my bag has not decreased the efficiency (layering to the point where the bag loft is diminished may be but with a quilt that can't happen). In my opinion the most important consideration for staying warm is insulation under you (not from your bag since the insulation material is highly compressed where your laying on it) and a good head covering to prevent heat loss.
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > Peter's suggestion may be right for you. Use a warmer bag and offset the added weight by using lighter base layer clothing and going back to the tarp tent after fixing whatever caused the leak).
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > From: dawgbronco@
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:50:56 +0000
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] UL Sleeping bag
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > I bought a Montbell UL #3. It weighs 1lb. 4 oz. A 30 degree bag. Any tips on staying warm on a cold night in the Sierras? I have a Capilene 4 LS shirt, Capilene 3 long johns, wool socks, even a puffy down vest. I bring this stuff anyway. Will a Space Blanket help?
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > My pad is the insulated Big Agnes air pad (15 degrees) and worth the
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > weight. Last trip I used the Tarptent Squall 2 but with the flap closed
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > it rained inside and open it was cold in the upper elevations. So next
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > year's trip I will bring the BA SL3. Roomy, a tad heavy, but shared
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > weight is less weight, on warm nights no fly but on cold nights the fly
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > is full on and tight.
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > I am a fetal sleeper so mummy bags are out. The Montebell is a mummy but
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > it fetals with me without binding (like it). Their next degree bag is
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > 15 at a full pound heavier. I had a Zirkel last trip; too hot, too
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > cramped, and open it was useless since the back side is uninsulated.
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > > Pound for pound, my Cabelas down rectangle bag is 2/11, roomy, and warm to the low 30's. I was hoping to shave weight next trip.
                                                                >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > > >
                                                                >
                                                                > >
                                                                >
                                                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.