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Re: Bartheco

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  • agrimorfee2000
    ... relative ... before. We ... have the ... folks think? Great idea, Mike! Who wants to do it? (time is short for me to jump on it right away).
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 6, 2001
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      --- In johnbarth@y..., "Fenger, Mike R. (LNG-MBC)"
      >putting together book lists and
      > passing them around. Not so much for arguing about ranking or
      relative
      > merit, but more to turn folks on to works they hadn't heard of
      before. We
      > could certainly post the files at the group site as a resource. (I
      have the
      > file with my top 50 or 60, unlike a picture of myself.) What do
      folks think?

      Great idea, Mike! Who wants to do it? (time is short for me to jump
      on it right away).
    • Fenger, Mike R. (LNG-MBC)
      I ll post mine (looking at it, it s smaller than I remembered, 40-something) as a start. It s an excel file, I can convert it to a text file if folks would
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 6, 2001
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        I'll post mine (looking at it, it's smaller than I remembered, 40-something)
        as a start. It's an excel file, I can convert it to a text file if folks
        would prefer.

        mike

        -----Original Message-----
        From: agrimorfee2000 [mailto:agrimorfee@...]
        Sent: Thursday, 06 December 2001 09:11
        To: johnbarth@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [johnbarth] Re: Bartheco


        --- In johnbarth@y..., "Fenger, Mike R. (LNG-MBC)"
        >putting together book lists and
        > passing them around. Not so much for arguing about ranking or
        relative
        > merit, but more to turn folks on to works they hadn't heard of
        before. We
        > could certainly post the files at the group site as a resource. (I
        have the
        > file with my top 50 or 60, unlike a picture of myself.) What do
        folks think?

        Great idea, Mike! Who wants to do it? (time is short for me to jump
        on it right away).



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      • J.M. Hall
        For me the common reason for liking both Barth and Eco is the way in which they foreground philosophical problems, albeit in different ways. I guess I am
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 7, 2001
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          For me the common reason for liking both Barth and Eco is the way in which
          they foreground philosophical problems, albeit in different ways. I guess
          I am particularly interested in literature as a way of doing philosophy,
          while always resisting its own reduction to the status of philosophical
          treatise because it is after all literature. Because of this
          anti-philosophical impulse in literature I find novels which confront
          questions of identity, epistemology, the construction of meaning, etc.
          very engaging. They are not claiming to answer the philosophical problems
          they pose, but instead enjoy becoming entangled by them. They do seek to
          get beyond or behind presuppositions, which is, I guess, where varying
          degrees of metafiction come into play. (Incidentally, I take a broader
          view of metafiction than was proposed by ... (was it you Kris?). I see
          metafictional elements in Jane Austen, for example.)

          I am working on Barth and history at the moment so I was interested in
          your suggestion, Kris, that Eco's fiction is more interested in history
          (allow me to misrepresent your position in a most haphazard fashion - I
          think it was along those lines anyway). The more I have read of Barth the
          more surprised I have been at the pressure that history exerts on his
          fiction. I agree that it is different to Eco's sense of history. Barth's
          sense of history, I think, has a strong American flavour in that it places
          human agency at the centre of events. Not only is the historical record
          written, but history itself is written, that is, constructed. So, his
          history involves notions of guilt, culpability, responsibility, whereas
          Eco's is more an unfolding external to the will of individuals. (Haven't
          read Eco for a while so let me know if this is rubbish.)
          I'd value anyone's thoughts on Barth and history.

          Thanks for your indulgence in reading my indulgent epistle this far.
          Jonathan
        • markbrawner
          Splendid post, Mr Hall. I hope you will continue to contribute. I d respond to this one right now, but the clock is ticking on this silly machine I ve pumped
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 8, 2001
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            Splendid post, Mr Hall. I hope you will continue to contribute. I'd
            respond to this one right now, but the clock is ticking on this silly
            machine I've pumped a dollar into.

            Til the next,
            Mark



            --- In johnbarth@y..., "J.M. Hall" <jmh69@h...> wrote:
            > For me the common reason for liking both Barth and Eco is the way
            in which
            > they foreground philosophical problems, albeit in different ways....
          • agrimorfee2000
            ... Having read the recent Coming Soon , I notice that JB has a somewhat different historicial view than previous. He seems to be listing historical events
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 10, 2001
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              --- In johnbarth@y..., "J.M. Hall" <jmh69@h...> wrote:
              > I'd value anyone's thoughts on Barth and history.
              >
              Having read the recent "Coming Soon", I notice that JB has a somewhat
              different historicial view than previous. He seems to be listing
              historical events now as a harbinger of The End Times, Apocalypse, or
              The End, however you want to phrase it. Other times, though IMHO, the
              hitorical facts he lists have little bearing to the story at hand
              (Dave Edelman agrees with me on this: www.dave-
              edelman.com/barth/index.cfm), as when the Novelist Emeritus character
              (read as JB) concocts a timeline of recent events as a correspondence
              to the tale's events midway into the novel. JB does mention a few
              times the infidelities of Pres. Clinton as a corresponding event to a
              supposed/imaginary tryst amongst a few major characters (no spoilers
              of who, but the result is anticlimactic). You think to yourself, ok,
              interesting, but why?

              Perhaps JB just wanted to list what was distracting or distressing
              him while trying to get the book done.
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