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Re: [johnbarth] Re: wait for response

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  • M. Sedaghat Payam
    Ambrose s Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read Ambrose His Mark Again. James McKeogh wrote: Lost
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 29, 2007
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      Ambrose's Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read Ambrose His Mark Again.

      James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
      Lost in the funhouse is one of my favorite barth
      titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark were
      exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English class
      at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
      ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
      grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
      agree?

      james

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    • James McKeogh
      its been a while since i ve read it, but keep in mind the bees belong to grandpa, and, like night see journey, only one gets through to sting mom (on the
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 29, 2007
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        its been a while since i've read it, but keep in mind
        the bees belong to grandpa, and, like night see
        journey, only one gets through to sting mom (on the
        breast). other parellels to the bees and the sperm
        permeate. also, i believe there may be double meaning
        to the elder berries (or flowers) that grandpa rubs
        all over the bee hive. elder berries may be the fruit
        of an older gent. He's also highlighted as not being
        bashful around the nakedness of the nursing daughter
        in law. i'll re-read it and note a couple more
        instances.


        james

        --- "M. Sedaghat Payam" <woolf_543@...> wrote:

        > Ambrose's Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read
        > Ambrose His Mark Again.
        >
        > James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
        > Lost in the funhouse is one
        > of my favorite barth
        > titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark
        > were
        > exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English
        > class
        > at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
        > ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
        > grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
        > agree?
        >
        > james
        >
        >
        >
        __________________________________________________________
        > Have a burning question?
        > Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from
        > real people who know.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
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      • agrimorfee
        ... JB at one point in Tidewater Tales postulates a notion that one s father is actually their grandfather--if one also buys the notion that a father s sperm
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 29, 2007
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          --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
          >
          > Lost in the funhouse is one of my favorite barth
          > titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark were
          > exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English class
          > at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
          > ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
          > grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
          > agree?
          >
          >

          JB at one point in Tidewater Tales postulates a notion that one's
          father is actually their grandfather--if one also buys the notion that
          a father's sperm is the actual "father" of a child (as an ovum would
          be the "mother").
        • Elena Tarnarutskaya
          I m going back to Lost in the Funhouse that s full od dubble and triple meanings. Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel, with the beginning
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 24, 2007
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            I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble and triple meanings.
            Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
            with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
            and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its mythological proto-narration?
            Elena

            James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
            its been a while since i've read it, but keep in mind
            the bees belong to grandpa, and, like night see
            journey, only one gets through to sting mom (on the
            breast). other parellels to the bees and the sperm
            permeate. also, i believe there may be double meaning
            to the elder berries (or flowers) that grandpa rubs
            all over the bee hive. elder berries may be the fruit
            of an older gent. He's also highlighted as not being
            bashful around the nakedness of the nursing daughter
            in law. i'll re-read it and note a couple more
            instances.

            james

            --- "M. Sedaghat Payam" <woolf_543@yahoo. com> wrote:

            > Ambrose's Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read
            > Ambrose His Mark Again.
            >
            > James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@yahoo. com> wrote:
            > Lost in the funhouse is one
            > of my favorite barth
            > titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark
            > were
            > exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English
            > class
            > at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
            > ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
            > grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
            > agree?
            >
            > james
            >
            >
            >
            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
            > Have a burning question?
            > Go to www.Answers. yahoo.com and get answers from
            > real people who know.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- ---
            > Finding fabulous fares is fun.
            > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel
            > sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
            Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
            in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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          • Mark Brawner
            ... I d hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth s declared intention that it be
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 24, 2007
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              Elena wrote:

              > I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble and triple meanings.
              > Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
              > with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
              > and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its mythological proto-narration?Elena

              I'd hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with
              limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth's declared intention
              that it be received as a quote "*book* of short stories: a sequence or
              series rather than a mere assortment . . . strung together on a few
              echoed and developed themes" circling/twisting back on itself like a
              Mobius strip. (This from the front matter to the Anchor Literary
              Library version)

              And your perception of two thematic and/or stylistic halves seems
              reasonable enough (with the caveat that I haven't read the thing in a
              few years). Though I'd be interested to hear more about what you mean
              by "mythological proto-narration."
            • agrimorfee
              ... triple meanings. ... mythological proto-narration? ... Are you referring to just Lost In the Funhouse and Ambrose His Mark ? I tend to think that both
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 27, 2007
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                --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, Elena Tarnarutskaya
                <etarnarutskaya@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble and
                triple meanings.
                > Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
                > with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
                > and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its
                mythological proto-narration?
                > Elena


                Are you referring to just "Lost In the Funhouse" and "Ambrose His
                Mark"?

                I tend to think that both stories were the seeds of a an
                autobiographical novel that Barth abandoned...in the later novel
                LETTERS, we meet Ambrose again but as a middle-aged, failed author.
                Ambrose refers to those 2 stories as chapters that "he" wrote but
                gave to John Barth, and we get to read further chapters in
                the "novel" that "he" never finished.
              • Elena Tarnarutskaya
                I d hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth s declared intention that it be received
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 4, 2007
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                  I'd hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with
                  limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth's declared intention
                  that it be received as a quote "*book* of short stories: a sequence or
                  series rather than a mere assortment . . . strung together on a few
                  echoed and developed themes" circling/twisting back on itself like a
                  Mobius strip. (This from the front matter to the Anchor Literary
                  Library version)

                  And your perception of two thematic and/or stylistic halves seems
                  reasonable enough (with the caveat that I haven't read the thing in a
                  few years). Though I'd be interested to hear more about what you mean
                  by "mythological proto-narration. "


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                • etarnarutskaya
                  ... and ... there are about 10 stories more. But the seeds of the autobiografical novel are very talented. Thank you for telling me that they were used in
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 4, 2007
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                    --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, "agrimorfee" <agrimorfee@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, Elena Tarnarutskaya
                    > <etarnarutskaya@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble
                    and
                    > triple meanings.
                    > > Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
                    > > with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
                    > > and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its
                    > mythological proto-narration?
                    > > Elena
                    >
                    >
                    > Are you referring to just "Lost In the Funhouse" and "Ambrose His
                    > Mark"?
                    > I was referring to the whole book "Lost in the Funhouse" where
                    there are about 10 stories more. But the seeds of the
                    autobiografical novel are very talented. Thank you for telling me
                    that they were used in LETTERS. By the way,how do you look at the
                    cases when characters or episodes roam from one book to others?
                    > I tend to think that both stories were the seeds of a an
                    > autobiographical novel that Barth abandoned...in the later novel
                    > LETTERS, we meet Ambrose again but as a middle-aged, failed
                    author.
                    > Ambrose refers to those 2 stories as chapters that "he" wrote but
                    > gave to John Barth, and we get to read further chapters in
                    > the "novel" that "he" never finished.
                    >
                  • Elena Tarnarutskaya
                    (Sorry for sending empty messages, I must have pushed wrong buttons, hoping this one is being sent) I see mythological proto-narration as narrative patterns
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 7, 2007
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                      (Sorry for sending empty messages, I must have pushed wrong buttons, hoping this one is being sent)
                      I see mythological proto-narration as narrative patterns stored in folklore and myth.
                      Thank you for the observation of the abandoned autobiographical novel! I didn't know thar Ambrose appears in a later novel.
                       
                      Judging by this and other instances when Barth's favourite characters roam throughout his books, they might seem one gygantic novel - out of how many?(that's a joke -or maybe not...)





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                    • agrimorfee
                      ... wrote: By the way,how do you look at the ... I usually enjoy these situations. Stephen King, for example, has had a habit of
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 9, 2007
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                        --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, "etarnarutskaya"
                        <etarnarutskaya@...> wrote:
                        By the way,how do you look at the
                        > cases when characters or episodes roam from one book to others?

                        I usually enjoy these situations. Stephen King, for example, has had a
                        habit of referencing characters and situations from one novel(or
                        story) into others. His novels and stories that take place in "Castle
                        Rock, Maine" are typical of this.
                      • Elena Tarnarutskaya
                        Dear Mehdy How do you like The End of the Road so far? What do you think of the doctor who treats the protagonist with myths? What have you learnt from the
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 10, 2007
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                          Dear Mehdy
                          How do you like "The End of the Road" so far? What do you think of the doctor who treats the protagonist with myths? What have you learnt from the book about writing stories? Do Iranian students like J B?
                          In Russia his books, although evalluated mostly in academic environment aren't popular with general public. But some advanced students interested in modern inellectual writing, read them.
                          Best regards
                          Elena
                          LLooking forward to IIn Russia


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                        • M. Sedaghat Payam
                          Dear Elena As a matter of fact there has not been a translation of John Barth in Persian yet, and my collection of Barth s stories of Barth will be the first
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 10, 2007
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                            Dear Elena
                            As a matter of fact there has not been a translation of John Barth in Persian yet, and my collection of Barth's stories of Barth will be the first of its kind. I am hopeful that Dunyazadiad finds a huge amount of readers. Here in Iran people buy the books either because of their writers or because of their translators. I am not a famous translator because it is my second book and few people actually know Barth. Thus I have to wait and see what will be the readers' reaction by September in which the translation will be published.
                            Personally I like Barth's works a lot and that novel taught me a lot about writing a good story I always wondered how can you narrate the story without the dialogue or direct narration and this novel gave me a good idea of how to come up with a good mixture of both rather than trying to come up with a third way. The idea of mythotherapy and all the other methods of therapy was so original and considering the fact that he wrote it when he was 24, I appreciate him a lot more.The doctor and his peculiar hospital were so bizarre and I still can not say what I think about them. What is your idea concerning the hospital and the doctor?

                            Reagrds
                            Mehdy

                             
                            Elena Tarnarutskaya <etarnarutskaya@...> wrote:
                            Dear Mehdy
                            How do you like "The End of the Road" so far? What do you think of the doctor who treats the protagonist with myths? What have you learnt from the book about writing stories? Do Iranian students like J B?
                            In Russia his books, although evalluated mostly in academic environment aren't popular with general public. But some advanced students interested in modern inellectual writing, read them.
                            Best regards
                            Elena
                            LLooking forward to IIn Russia

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