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  • James McKeogh
    Lost in the funhouse is one of my favorite barth titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark were exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English class at
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 28, 2007
      Lost in the funhouse is one of my favorite barth
      titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark were
      exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English class
      at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
      ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
      grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
      agree?


      james



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    • M. Sedaghat Payam
      Ambrose s Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read Ambrose His Mark Again. James McKeogh wrote: Lost
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 29, 2007
        Ambrose's Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read Ambrose His Mark Again.

        James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
        Lost in the funhouse is one of my favorite barth
        titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark were
        exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English class
        at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
        ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
        grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
        agree?

        james

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      • James McKeogh
        its been a while since i ve read it, but keep in mind the bees belong to grandpa, and, like night see journey, only one gets through to sting mom (on the
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 29, 2007
          its been a while since i've read it, but keep in mind
          the bees belong to grandpa, and, like night see
          journey, only one gets through to sting mom (on the
          breast). other parellels to the bees and the sperm
          permeate. also, i believe there may be double meaning
          to the elder berries (or flowers) that grandpa rubs
          all over the bee hive. elder berries may be the fruit
          of an older gent. He's also highlighted as not being
          bashful around the nakedness of the nursing daughter
          in law. i'll re-read it and note a couple more
          instances.


          james

          --- "M. Sedaghat Payam" <woolf_543@...> wrote:

          > Ambrose's Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read
          > Ambrose His Mark Again.
          >
          > James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
          > Lost in the funhouse is one
          > of my favorite barth
          > titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark
          > were
          > exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English
          > class
          > at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
          > ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
          > grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
          > agree?
          >
          > james
          >
          >
          >
          __________________________________________________________
          > Have a burning question?
          > Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from
          > real people who know.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
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        • agrimorfee
          ... JB at one point in Tidewater Tales postulates a notion that one s father is actually their grandfather--if one also buys the notion that a father s sperm
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 29, 2007
            --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
            >
            > Lost in the funhouse is one of my favorite barth
            > titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark were
            > exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English class
            > at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
            > ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
            > grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
            > agree?
            >
            >

            JB at one point in Tidewater Tales postulates a notion that one's
            father is actually their grandfather--if one also buys the notion that
            a father's sperm is the actual "father" of a child (as an ovum would
            be the "mother").
          • Elena Tarnarutskaya
            I m going back to Lost in the Funhouse that s full od dubble and triple meanings. Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel, with the beginning
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 24, 2007
               
              I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble and triple meanings.
              Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
              with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
              and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its mythological proto-narration?
              Elena

              James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
              its been a while since i've read it, but keep in mind
              the bees belong to grandpa, and, like night see
              journey, only one gets through to sting mom (on the
              breast). other parellels to the bees and the sperm
              permeate. also, i believe there may be double meaning
              to the elder berries (or flowers) that grandpa rubs
              all over the bee hive. elder berries may be the fruit
              of an older gent. He's also highlighted as not being
              bashful around the nakedness of the nursing daughter
              in law. i'll re-read it and note a couple more
              instances.

              james

              --- "M. Sedaghat Payam" <woolf_543@yahoo. com> wrote:

              > Ambrose's Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read
              > Ambrose His Mark Again.
              >
              > James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@yahoo. com> wrote:
              > Lost in the funhouse is one
              > of my favorite barth
              > titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark
              > were
              > exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English
              > class
              > at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
              > ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
              > grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
              > agree?
              >
              > james
              >
              >
              >
              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              > Have a burning question?
              > Go to www.Answers. yahoo.com and get answers from
              > real people who know.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- ---
              > Finding fabulous fares is fun.
              > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel
              > sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
              in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
              http://farechase. yahoo.com/ promo-generic- 14795097


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            • Mark Brawner
              ... I d hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth s declared intention that it be
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 24, 2007
                Elena wrote:

                > I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble and triple meanings.
                > Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
                > with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
                > and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its mythological proto-narration?Elena

                I'd hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with
                limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth's declared intention
                that it be received as a quote "*book* of short stories: a sequence or
                series rather than a mere assortment . . . strung together on a few
                echoed and developed themes" circling/twisting back on itself like a
                Mobius strip. (This from the front matter to the Anchor Literary
                Library version)

                And your perception of two thematic and/or stylistic halves seems
                reasonable enough (with the caveat that I haven't read the thing in a
                few years). Though I'd be interested to hear more about what you mean
                by "mythological proto-narration."
              • agrimorfee
                ... triple meanings. ... mythological proto-narration? ... Are you referring to just Lost In the Funhouse and Ambrose His Mark ? I tend to think that both
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 27, 2007
                  --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, Elena Tarnarutskaya
                  <etarnarutskaya@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble and
                  triple meanings.
                  > Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
                  > with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
                  > and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its
                  mythological proto-narration?
                  > Elena


                  Are you referring to just "Lost In the Funhouse" and "Ambrose His
                  Mark"?

                  I tend to think that both stories were the seeds of a an
                  autobiographical novel that Barth abandoned...in the later novel
                  LETTERS, we meet Ambrose again but as a middle-aged, failed author.
                  Ambrose refers to those 2 stories as chapters that "he" wrote but
                  gave to John Barth, and we get to read further chapters in
                  the "novel" that "he" never finished.
                • Elena Tarnarutskaya
                  I d hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth s declared intention that it be received
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 4, 2007

                    I'd hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with
                    limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth's declared intention
                    that it be received as a quote "*book* of short stories: a sequence or
                    series rather than a mere assortment . . . strung together on a few
                    echoed and developed themes" circling/twisting back on itself like a
                    Mobius strip. (This from the front matter to the Anchor Literary
                    Library version)

                    And your perception of two thematic and/or stylistic halves seems
                    reasonable enough (with the caveat that I haven't read the thing in a
                    few years). Though I'd be interested to hear more about what you mean
                    by "mythological proto-narration. "


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                  • etarnarutskaya
                    ... and ... there are about 10 stories more. But the seeds of the autobiografical novel are very talented. Thank you for telling me that they were used in
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 4, 2007
                      --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, "agrimorfee" <agrimorfee@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, Elena Tarnarutskaya
                      > <etarnarutskaya@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble
                      and
                      > triple meanings.
                      > > Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
                      > > with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
                      > > and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its
                      > mythological proto-narration?
                      > > Elena
                      >
                      >
                      > Are you referring to just "Lost In the Funhouse" and "Ambrose His
                      > Mark"?
                      > I was referring to the whole book "Lost in the Funhouse" where
                      there are about 10 stories more. But the seeds of the
                      autobiografical novel are very talented. Thank you for telling me
                      that they were used in LETTERS. By the way,how do you look at the
                      cases when characters or episodes roam from one book to others?
                      > I tend to think that both stories were the seeds of a an
                      > autobiographical novel that Barth abandoned...in the later novel
                      > LETTERS, we meet Ambrose again but as a middle-aged, failed
                      author.
                      > Ambrose refers to those 2 stories as chapters that "he" wrote but
                      > gave to John Barth, and we get to read further chapters in
                      > the "novel" that "he" never finished.
                      >
                    • Elena Tarnarutskaya
                      (Sorry for sending empty messages, I must have pushed wrong buttons, hoping this one is being sent) I see mythological proto-narration as narrative patterns
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 7, 2007
                        (Sorry for sending empty messages, I must have pushed wrong buttons, hoping this one is being sent)
                        I see mythological proto-narration as narrative patterns stored in folklore and myth.
                        Thank you for the observation of the abandoned autobiographical novel! I didn't know thar Ambrose appears in a later novel.
                         
                        Judging by this and other instances when Barth's favourite characters roam throughout his books, they might seem one gygantic novel - out of how many?(that's a joke -or maybe not...)





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                      • agrimorfee
                        ... wrote: By the way,how do you look at the ... I usually enjoy these situations. Stephen King, for example, has had a habit of
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 9, 2007
                          --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, "etarnarutskaya"
                          <etarnarutskaya@...> wrote:
                          By the way,how do you look at the
                          > cases when characters or episodes roam from one book to others?

                          I usually enjoy these situations. Stephen King, for example, has had a
                          habit of referencing characters and situations from one novel(or
                          story) into others. His novels and stories that take place in "Castle
                          Rock, Maine" are typical of this.
                        • Elena Tarnarutskaya
                          Dear Mehdy How do you like The End of the Road so far? What do you think of the doctor who treats the protagonist with myths? What have you learnt from the
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 10, 2007
                            Dear Mehdy
                            How do you like "The End of the Road" so far? What do you think of the doctor who treats the protagonist with myths? What have you learnt from the book about writing stories? Do Iranian students like J B?
                            In Russia his books, although evalluated mostly in academic environment aren't popular with general public. But some advanced students interested in modern inellectual writing, read them.
                            Best regards
                            Elena
                            LLooking forward to IIn Russia


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                          • M. Sedaghat Payam
                            Dear Elena As a matter of fact there has not been a translation of John Barth in Persian yet, and my collection of Barth s stories of Barth will be the first
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 10, 2007
                              Dear Elena
                              As a matter of fact there has not been a translation of John Barth in Persian yet, and my collection of Barth's stories of Barth will be the first of its kind. I am hopeful that Dunyazadiad finds a huge amount of readers. Here in Iran people buy the books either because of their writers or because of their translators. I am not a famous translator because it is my second book and few people actually know Barth. Thus I have to wait and see what will be the readers' reaction by September in which the translation will be published.
                              Personally I like Barth's works a lot and that novel taught me a lot about writing a good story I always wondered how can you narrate the story without the dialogue or direct narration and this novel gave me a good idea of how to come up with a good mixture of both rather than trying to come up with a third way. The idea of mythotherapy and all the other methods of therapy was so original and considering the fact that he wrote it when he was 24, I appreciate him a lot more.The doctor and his peculiar hospital were so bizarre and I still can not say what I think about them. What is your idea concerning the hospital and the doctor?

                              Reagrds
                              Mehdy

                               
                              Elena Tarnarutskaya <etarnarutskaya@...> wrote:
                              Dear Mehdy
                              How do you like "The End of the Road" so far? What do you think of the doctor who treats the protagonist with myths? What have you learnt from the book about writing stories? Do Iranian students like J B?
                              In Russia his books, although evalluated mostly in academic environment aren't popular with general public. But some advanced students interested in modern inellectual writing, read them.
                              Best regards
                              Elena
                              LLooking forward to IIn Russia

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