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Re: [johnbarth] Re: wait for response

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  • M. Sedaghat Payam
    Mal McCormack wrote: I m fascinated that Barth is now being translated in so many languages. I d really love to know how he s appreciated
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 24, 2007


      Mal McCormack <malmc_y@...> wrote: 
      I'm fascinated that Barth is now being translated in so many
      languages. I'd really love to know how he's appreciated (or not) in
      these different cultures. But then, I suspect that deep down people
      are pretty much the same all the world over.
       
       
      I am very interested to know what will be the feedback of Iranian audience toward Barth. I have actually included Lost in Funhouse and Life-story in addition to Dunyazadiad in the collection which will be published in a couple of month. It is the first time that anything by Barth is going to be published in Iran and I hope later other translators publish his bulky novels such as Giles and Sot-weed.


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    • agrimorfee
      It takes a friendly call across the water to make a blip in this forum! I got into Barth by pure chance, browsing in the library where I found Tidewater Tales.
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 26, 2007
        It takes a friendly call across the water to make a blip in this
        forum! I got into Barth by pure chance, browsing in the library where
        I found Tidewater Tales. I'm a sucker for irregular chapter headings
        and wacky typefonts in a novel...:)

        I've followed him ever since, but have been mostly half-hearted to
        disenchanted with his work since the 1990s. Favorite work? LETTERS.

        I would be very intrigued with the Iranian response to Somebody The
        Sailor later on, too.
      • M. Sedaghat Payam
        Unfortunately I have not read the novels that Barth has written in the 80 s and 90 s. LETTERS is in my waiting list for reading. But after your comment, I am
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 27, 2007
          Unfortunately I have not read the novels that Barth has written in the 80's and 90's. LETTERS is in my waiting list for reading.
          But after your comment, I am very much interested to know what is particular about Somebody the Sailor. It has a very interesting title.


          agrimorfee <agrimorfee@...> wrote:
          It takes a friendly call across the water to make a blip in this
          forum! I got into Barth by pure chance, browsing in the library where
          I found Tidewater Tales. I'm a sucker for irregular chapter headings
          and wacky typefonts in a novel...:)

          I've followed him ever since, but have been mostly half-hearted to
          disenchanted with his work since the 1990s. Favorite work? LETTERS.

          I would be very intrigued with the Iranian response to Somebody The
          Sailor later on, too.



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        • etarnarutskaya
          Dear Barth people, I never thought you d answer so promptly and kindheartedly! Thanks a lot for your replies! I ve got a very old and faulty computer and it s
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 28, 2007
            Dear Barth people, I never thought you'd answer so promptly and
            kindheartedly! Thanks a lot for your replies! I've got a very old and
            faulty computer and it's once in 20 attempts that I can get to yahoo -
            that's why I'm late to write.

            I like all three stories in "Chimera". Of course, The Duniasadiade's
            the nicest at first sight. The second one makes an impression of
            smth solemn and immovable, reminds of its stars and stone pictures.
            But the biggest last part with Bellerofon is the strangest. Yes,
            paradoxical and quite interesting to explore and it also fastens the
            book making allusions to first parts and even to other Barth's books.

            Of those, I've read only "The End of the Road", it didn't strike me
            as something new. But I'm reading "Lost in the Funhouse" now, and
            it's really interesting so far! What do you think, what fastens
            thaWhat do you think, what fastens that book, there are so many, so
            different tales? Which are your favourites? I found here in the
            Internet that some are studied even in American schools. All in all,
            how is J B looked at – as a classic or avant guarde? Is it read by
            the young?

            By the way, I have to read Barth in translation: unfortunately, it's
            next to impossible to get English versions here (I live rather far
            from Moscow, in Samara that lies on the Volga river). Apart from
            those three books, others aren't available even in Russian, they may
            not seem profitable to publish. But yes, Mark, people who like
            literature from all cultures are certainly more alike than different!
            Still Pinchon's Lot 49, also in Russian sounds too gothic for me.

            Where do you live? What do you do? I learnt only that Sedaghat lives
            in Iran. Sedaghat, does "Chimera" lose its aroma through translation?
            I teach English to university students and adults here in Samara.

            Elena
          • M. Sedaghat Payam
            Dear Elena Thank for you mail, it is good to see there is some activity in this group after a rather long period. First of all as I have already said I didn t
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 28, 2007
              Dear Elena
              Thank for you mail, it is good to see there is some activity in this group after a rather long period.
              First of all as I have already said I didn't translate Perseid and Bellerphoniad, although I liked the latter very much. But Dunyazadiad sounds damn cool in Persian because it uses names such as Shahrzad, Shahriyar etc. which are quite common in Iran nowadays. On the other hand 1001 nights which has Iranian origins is well-known here as I suppose in the rest of the world. In addition to that novella, I have translated Lost in Funhouse (which is a real nightmare for translators) and Life-Story. The only problem which I may encounter is the censorship of the parts which are considered indecent by Ministry of Islamic Guidance and Culture and I hope the novel passes with one or two minor scratches from the razor of censorship. But it is still too early to worry about that.

              I have just approached chapter 6 of The End of the Road and so far it has become better and better chapter by chapter. I have learnt many things from that about writing a story so far.
              I teach English Literature to B.A. students in Parand which is a small city near Tehran. Moreover Sedaghat is a part of my second name and my first name is Mehdy. Whatever. Call me Ishamael (if you will)

              Regards
              Mehdy
              etarnarutskaya <etarnarutskaya@...> wrote:
              Dear Barth people, I never thought you'd answer so promptly and
              kindheartedly! Thanks a lot for your replies! I've got a very old and
              faulty computer and it's once in 20 attempts that I can get to yahoo -
              that's why I'm late to write.

              I like all three stories in "Chimera". Of course, The Duniasadiade' s
              the nicest at first sight. The second one makes an impression of
              smth solemn and immovable, reminds of its stars and stone pictures.
              But the biggest last part with Bellerofon is the strangest. Yes,
              paradoxical and quite interesting to explore and it also fastens the
              book making allusions to first parts and even to other Barth's books.

              Of those, I've read only "The End of the Road", it didn't strike me
              as something new. But I'm reading "Lost in the Funhouse" now, and
              it's really interesting so far! What do you think, what fastens
              thaWhat do you think, what fastens that book, there are so many, so
              different tales? Which are your favourites? I found here in the
              Internet that some are studied even in American schools. All in all,
              how is J B looked at – as a classic or avant guarde? Is it read by
              the young?

              By the way, I have to read Barth in translation: unfortunately, it's
              next to impossible to get English versions here (I live rather far
              from Moscow, in Samara that lies on the Volga river). Apart from
              those three books, others aren't available even in Russian, they may
              not seem profitable to publish. But yes, Mark, people who like
              literature from all cultures are certainly more alike than different!
              Still Pinchon's Lot 49, also in Russian sounds too gothic for me.

              Where do you live? What do you do? I learnt only that Sedaghat lives
              in Iran. Sedaghat, does "Chimera" lose its aroma through translation?
              I teach English to university students and adults here in Samara.

              Elena




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            • James McKeogh
              Lost in the funhouse is one of my favorite barth titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark were exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English class at
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 28, 2007
                Lost in the funhouse is one of my favorite barth
                titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark were
                exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English class
                at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
                ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
                grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
                agree?


                james



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              • M. Sedaghat Payam
                Ambrose s Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read Ambrose His Mark Again. James McKeogh wrote: Lost
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 29, 2007
                  Ambrose's Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read Ambrose His Mark Again.

                  James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
                  Lost in the funhouse is one of my favorite barth
                  titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark were
                  exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English class
                  at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
                  ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
                  grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
                  agree?

                  james

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                • James McKeogh
                  its been a while since i ve read it, but keep in mind the bees belong to grandpa, and, like night see journey, only one gets through to sting mom (on the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 29, 2007
                    its been a while since i've read it, but keep in mind
                    the bees belong to grandpa, and, like night see
                    journey, only one gets through to sting mom (on the
                    breast). other parellels to the bees and the sperm
                    permeate. also, i believe there may be double meaning
                    to the elder berries (or flowers) that grandpa rubs
                    all over the bee hive. elder berries may be the fruit
                    of an older gent. He's also highlighted as not being
                    bashful around the nakedness of the nursing daughter
                    in law. i'll re-read it and note a couple more
                    instances.


                    james

                    --- "M. Sedaghat Payam" <woolf_543@...> wrote:

                    > Ambrose's Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read
                    > Ambrose His Mark Again.
                    >
                    > James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
                    > Lost in the funhouse is one
                    > of my favorite barth
                    > titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark
                    > were
                    > exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English
                    > class
                    > at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
                    > ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
                    > grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
                    > agree?
                    >
                    > james
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    __________________________________________________________
                    > Have a burning question?
                    > Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from
                    > real people who know.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
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                    > sites to find flight and hotel bargains.




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                  • agrimorfee
                    ... JB at one point in Tidewater Tales postulates a notion that one s father is actually their grandfather--if one also buys the notion that a father s sperm
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 29, 2007
                      --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Lost in the funhouse is one of my favorite barth
                      > titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark were
                      > exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English class
                      > at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
                      > ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
                      > grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
                      > agree?
                      >
                      >

                      JB at one point in Tidewater Tales postulates a notion that one's
                      father is actually their grandfather--if one also buys the notion that
                      a father's sperm is the actual "father" of a child (as an ovum would
                      be the "mother").
                    • Elena Tarnarutskaya
                      I m going back to Lost in the Funhouse that s full od dubble and triple meanings. Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel, with the beginning
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 24, 2007
                         
                        I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble and triple meanings.
                        Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
                        with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
                        and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its mythological proto-narration?
                        Elena

                        James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@...> wrote:
                        its been a while since i've read it, but keep in mind
                        the bees belong to grandpa, and, like night see
                        journey, only one gets through to sting mom (on the
                        breast). other parellels to the bees and the sperm
                        permeate. also, i believe there may be double meaning
                        to the elder berries (or flowers) that grandpa rubs
                        all over the bee hive. elder berries may be the fruit
                        of an older gent. He's also highlighted as not being
                        bashful around the nakedness of the nursing daughter
                        in law. i'll re-read it and note a couple more
                        instances.

                        james

                        --- "M. Sedaghat Payam" <woolf_543@yahoo. com> wrote:

                        > Ambrose's Grandpa as his father? Well I have to read
                        > Ambrose His Mark Again.
                        >
                        > James McKeogh <jhmckeogh@yahoo. com> wrote:
                        > Lost in the funhouse is one
                        > of my favorite barth
                        > titles. Night Sea Journey and Ambrose His Mark
                        > were
                        > exceptionally fun to read and discuss in English
                        > class
                        > at Penn State (JB actually taught there many years
                        > ago). I was working on a thesis that Ambrose's
                        > grandfather was actually his father, anyone else
                        > agree?
                        >
                        > james
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                        > Have a burning question?
                        > Go to www.Answers. yahoo.com and get answers from
                        > real people who know.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                        > Finding fabulous fares is fun.
                        > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel
                        > sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

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                      • Mark Brawner
                        ... I d hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth s declared intention that it be
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 24, 2007
                          Elena wrote:

                          > I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble and triple meanings.
                          > Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
                          > with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
                          > and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its mythological proto-narration?Elena

                          I'd hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with
                          limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth's declared intention
                          that it be received as a quote "*book* of short stories: a sequence or
                          series rather than a mere assortment . . . strung together on a few
                          echoed and developed themes" circling/twisting back on itself like a
                          Mobius strip. (This from the front matter to the Anchor Literary
                          Library version)

                          And your perception of two thematic and/or stylistic halves seems
                          reasonable enough (with the caveat that I haven't read the thing in a
                          few years). Though I'd be interested to hear more about what you mean
                          by "mythological proto-narration."
                        • agrimorfee
                          ... triple meanings. ... mythological proto-narration? ... Are you referring to just Lost In the Funhouse and Ambrose His Mark ? I tend to think that both
                          Message 12 of 23 , Feb 27, 2007
                            --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, Elena Tarnarutskaya
                            <etarnarutskaya@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble and
                            triple meanings.
                            > Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
                            > with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
                            > and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its
                            mythological proto-narration?
                            > Elena


                            Are you referring to just "Lost In the Funhouse" and "Ambrose His
                            Mark"?

                            I tend to think that both stories were the seeds of a an
                            autobiographical novel that Barth abandoned...in the later novel
                            LETTERS, we meet Ambrose again but as a middle-aged, failed author.
                            Ambrose refers to those 2 stories as chapters that "he" wrote but
                            gave to John Barth, and we get to read further chapters in
                            the "novel" that "he" never finished.
                          • Elena Tarnarutskaya
                            I d hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth s declared intention that it be received
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 4, 2007

                              I'd hesitate to call it a novel, although I do try to perceive (with
                              limited success or insight, I must admit) Barth's declared intention
                              that it be received as a quote "*book* of short stories: a sequence or
                              series rather than a mere assortment . . . strung together on a few
                              echoed and developed themes" circling/twisting back on itself like a
                              Mobius strip. (This from the front matter to the Anchor Literary
                              Library version)

                              And your perception of two thematic and/or stylistic halves seems
                              reasonable enough (with the caveat that I haven't read the thing in a
                              few years). Though I'd be interested to hear more about what you mean
                              by "mythological proto-narration. "


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                            • etarnarutskaya
                              ... and ... there are about 10 stories more. But the seeds of the autobiografical novel are very talented. Thank you for telling me that they were used in
                              Message 14 of 23 , Mar 4, 2007
                                --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, "agrimorfee" <agrimorfee@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, Elena Tarnarutskaya
                                > <etarnarutskaya@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > I'm going back to Lost in the Funhouse that's full od dubble
                                and
                                > triple meanings.
                                > > Does it seem possible for you to look at it as a novel,
                                > > with the beginning set in US 50-s + novel self-reflection,
                                > > and part 2 where the self-reflection is turned to its
                                > mythological proto-narration?
                                > > Elena
                                >
                                >
                                > Are you referring to just "Lost In the Funhouse" and "Ambrose His
                                > Mark"?
                                > I was referring to the whole book "Lost in the Funhouse" where
                                there are about 10 stories more. But the seeds of the
                                autobiografical novel are very talented. Thank you for telling me
                                that they were used in LETTERS. By the way,how do you look at the
                                cases when characters or episodes roam from one book to others?
                                > I tend to think that both stories were the seeds of a an
                                > autobiographical novel that Barth abandoned...in the later novel
                                > LETTERS, we meet Ambrose again but as a middle-aged, failed
                                author.
                                > Ambrose refers to those 2 stories as chapters that "he" wrote but
                                > gave to John Barth, and we get to read further chapters in
                                > the "novel" that "he" never finished.
                                >
                              • Elena Tarnarutskaya
                                (Sorry for sending empty messages, I must have pushed wrong buttons, hoping this one is being sent) I see mythological proto-narration as narrative patterns
                                Message 15 of 23 , Mar 7, 2007
                                  (Sorry for sending empty messages, I must have pushed wrong buttons, hoping this one is being sent)
                                  I see mythological proto-narration as narrative patterns stored in folklore and myth.
                                  Thank you for the observation of the abandoned autobiographical novel! I didn't know thar Ambrose appears in a later novel.
                                   
                                  Judging by this and other instances when Barth's favourite characters roam throughout his books, they might seem one gygantic novel - out of how many?(that's a joke -or maybe not...)





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                                • agrimorfee
                                  ... wrote: By the way,how do you look at the ... I usually enjoy these situations. Stephen King, for example, has had a habit of
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Mar 9, 2007
                                    --- In johnbarth@yahoogroups.com, "etarnarutskaya"
                                    <etarnarutskaya@...> wrote:
                                    By the way,how do you look at the
                                    > cases when characters or episodes roam from one book to others?

                                    I usually enjoy these situations. Stephen King, for example, has had a
                                    habit of referencing characters and situations from one novel(or
                                    story) into others. His novels and stories that take place in "Castle
                                    Rock, Maine" are typical of this.
                                  • Elena Tarnarutskaya
                                    Dear Mehdy How do you like The End of the Road so far? What do you think of the doctor who treats the protagonist with myths? What have you learnt from the
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Mar 10, 2007
                                      Dear Mehdy
                                      How do you like "The End of the Road" so far? What do you think of the doctor who treats the protagonist with myths? What have you learnt from the book about writing stories? Do Iranian students like J B?
                                      In Russia his books, although evalluated mostly in academic environment aren't popular with general public. But some advanced students interested in modern inellectual writing, read them.
                                      Best regards
                                      Elena
                                      LLooking forward to IIn Russia


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                                    • M. Sedaghat Payam
                                      Dear Elena As a matter of fact there has not been a translation of John Barth in Persian yet, and my collection of Barth s stories of Barth will be the first
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Mar 10, 2007
                                        Dear Elena
                                        As a matter of fact there has not been a translation of John Barth in Persian yet, and my collection of Barth's stories of Barth will be the first of its kind. I am hopeful that Dunyazadiad finds a huge amount of readers. Here in Iran people buy the books either because of their writers or because of their translators. I am not a famous translator because it is my second book and few people actually know Barth. Thus I have to wait and see what will be the readers' reaction by September in which the translation will be published.
                                        Personally I like Barth's works a lot and that novel taught me a lot about writing a good story I always wondered how can you narrate the story without the dialogue or direct narration and this novel gave me a good idea of how to come up with a good mixture of both rather than trying to come up with a third way. The idea of mythotherapy and all the other methods of therapy was so original and considering the fact that he wrote it when he was 24, I appreciate him a lot more.The doctor and his peculiar hospital were so bizarre and I still can not say what I think about them. What is your idea concerning the hospital and the doctor?

                                        Reagrds
                                        Mehdy

                                         
                                        Elena Tarnarutskaya <etarnarutskaya@...> wrote:
                                        Dear Mehdy
                                        How do you like "The End of the Road" so far? What do you think of the doctor who treats the protagonist with myths? What have you learnt from the book about writing stories? Do Iranian students like J B?
                                        In Russia his books, although evalluated mostly in academic environment aren't popular with general public. But some advanced students interested in modern inellectual writing, read them.
                                        Best regards
                                        Elena
                                        LLooking forward to IIn Russia

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