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  • Krzysztof Majer
    This place is quiet these days, let s get some discussion going. Any new members? There are 113 all in all, I just looked. Amazing! We ve never been this big
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 15, 2006
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      This place is quiet these days, let's get some discussion going.

      Any new members? There are 113 all in all, I just looked. Amazing!
      We've never been this big before... So where are you all? :) What led
      you hither? What do you think of 3 Roads, or - for that matter - any
      other JB book? Be not afeared!

      It would be so nice to meet some of those 113 people! I can maybe
      place 20 who have posted here...?

      K
    • M. Sedaghat Payam
      Hi Kryzsztof I have not read only few of Barth s books and I am already translating one into Persian. I am really amazed by how different each book of his,
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 16, 2006
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        Hi Kryzsztof
        I have not read only few of Barth's books and I am already translating one into Persian. I am really amazed by how different each book of his, has been from the otherI have read Floating Opera, Lost in Funhouse,  and right now I am reading Giles Goat Boy which is really wonderful. At first it was  a bit difficult to understand the analogy that he wonderfully made between Universe and University. The idea of Universe as a University may have struck many authors, but I believe that only few can change it to a true work of art. I am in middle of the second reel, and I read one chapter everybody and enjoy it a lot.
        Currently I am working on an article about the electronic textuality and I wonder if I anyone can introduce me any of Barth's novel that can be easily changed into  a hypertext, (as one can electronically publish Late Sorrentono's Mulligan Stew and a mere shift from printed text to the electronic text will not change much of it)?

        Mehdy

        Krzysztof Majer <kmajer@...> wrote:
        This place is quiet these days, let's get some discussion going.

        Any new members? There are 113 all in all, I just looked. Amazing!
        We've never been this big before... So where are you all? :) What led
        you hither? What do you think of 3 Roads, or - for that matter - any
        other JB book? Be not afeared!

        It would be so nice to meet some of those 113 people! I can maybe
        place 20 who have posted here...?

        K



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      • Krzysztof Majer
        Hi Mehdy! Thanks for responding! ... Always a worthy and important enterprise, translation! I do remember several e-mails from you a while back, but could you
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 16, 2006
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          Hi Mehdy! Thanks for responding!

          > I have not read only few of Barth's books and I am already
          > translating one into Persian.

          Always a worthy and important enterprise, translation! I do remember
          several e-mails from you a while back, but could you remind me if
          there have been any JB translations into Persian already? Are you a
          pioneer in the field, so to speak? I do a bit of translating myself,
          mostly academic articles, although my training is in literary
          translation and I hope to do more of it in future.

          JB is rather tough to render into another language, and he actually
          makes a point of that himself once or twice in 3 Roads (I think in the
          3rd novella, "this will be lost in transcript and translation",
          sonething like that). Back in university days we could often choose
          our own texts for translation projects, so long as they were fiction
          and short - could be stories or bits of novels - and I once did the
          opening 5 or so pages of Coming Soon!!!, probably the most challenging
          bit of translation I've ever done (and that includes the first several
          pages of Gravity's Rainbow on a similar occasion). But fortunately at
          least half of JB's catalogue is available in Polish, some of it done
          very well by experienced translators far abler than Yours Truly. Alas,
          "Giles" is still not among them...

          > I am really amazed by how different each book of his, has been from
          > the otherI have read Floating Opera, Lost in Funhouse, and right
          > now I am reading Giles Goat Boy which is really wonderful.

          True - surely my recent gibe would not apply to these three. "Giles"
          and "Sot-Weed Factor" are two of my absolute Barth favorites, so I go
          along with this heartily. Of course, we have quite a bit of dissent in
          the group here - fortunately! - as regards JB's favorites and
          most-hated. Cheers for diversity, anyhow.

          > At first it was a bit difficult to understand the analogy that he
          > wonderfully made between Universe and University.

          I had that, too, the first time around, my main problem being that it
          is specifically the American university that the Universe resembles
          (or, rather, is). Surely for someone who has been through it, the
          humor would have been still more appealing. The Polish system is in
          many ways very different and so it took a bit of learning how the
          American university actually works to clarify some aspects of the book
          for me. The second time it went much more smoothly.

          > The idea of Universe as a University may have struck many authors,
          > but I believe that only few can change it to a true work of art.

          It may have, indeed, but can we think of any? Probably no-one but the
          elegant, diligent JB would have pushed this "extended metaphor" quite
          this far and have it spawn a 600-pages-plus novel, but do other works
          which attempt at least a similar thing spring to mind? I don't of
          course mean the "university novel" done by people like Amis the Elder,
          Bradbury or Lodge. But it would have been someone endowed with a
          satirical bent, Swiftian perhaps? Or maybe Swift himself did it? I
          read "Gulliver" all too long ago to remember. Anyone?

          > Currently I am working on an article about the electronic textuality
          > and I wonder if I anyone can introduce me any of Barth's novel that
          > can be easily changed into a hypertext,

          I'm not sure about novels, since I guess that JB - despite all his
          metafictional tricks - is after all a linear writer. OK, so he did
          have "The Frame Tale" in Funhouse, but still... There's the story
          "Click!" in the recent volume of short fiction, The Book of Ten Nights
          and a Night. I rather liked the story and even assigned to students
          last year in an additional class dedicated to postmodernist writing
          (along with Coover's "Shootout at Gentry's Junction", brilliant for
          exemplifying genre parody, high/low culture mixup, etc, and extracts
          from Calvino's "If on a Winter's Night a Traveler"). It is not, I take
          it, itself a hypertext, but rather a story about hypertextuality, its
          point being that language & reality themselves are hypertextual, and
          therefore all writing must be. So since the story tries to prove, as I
          see it, that all writing is per se hypertextual, it might be just a
          tad disconcerting to transform that into an actual hypertext (?). A
          fun story to read, anyway, and it used to be available online, maybe
          still is. Surely our linkmaster Mark here has it stored somewhere? Or
          maybe Dave Edelman's site lists it?

          Once again, thanks for weighing in, Mehdy! Do tell us more about the
          reception of JB in your country or how much of his work is actually
          available. Also, which one are you working on, translation-wise?

          K
        • M. Sedaghat Payam
          Hi Krzysztof (Really a difficult name to write and pronounce, by the way I would like to ask the cliche question that you may have answered for 1000th time.
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 17, 2006
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            Hi Krzysztof (Really a difficult name to write and pronounce, by the way I would like to ask the cliche question that you may have answered for 1000th time. So please answer it for 1001st time because there are still some people are confused whether to pronounce Kieslowski's name as Krishtof or Kristof. The question as you may have noticed is: What is the correct pronunciation of your name in English?)

            Anyway thanks for your reply. As for the translations of J.B. I am the pioneer in the field and there no other translations of J.B.'s novels into Persian. I have M.A. in English Literature and I have translated and published Kurt Vonnegut's Timequake to Persian.  The main problem for translating Barth here, in addition to his stylistical difficulties, is that some people still are reminded of Roland Barthes when I speak about Barth with them, and I have to explain them again and again that "No he is not that French critic"  The fact that only two articles of Barth, literature of exhaustion and literature of replenishment, are the only writings of Barth that are translated to Persian, adds more to this overall confusion about Barthes and Barth. On the other hand they are both pronounced as Baart in Persian. I have chosen to translate Dunyazad from Chimera and a few other stories from Lost in Funhouse. So it's gonna be a collection of his older works.

            When I said that there are many writers who have tried to make an analogy between Universe and University I had no specific novel in mind, I just tried to be on the safe side. Because there are many novels published each year and for me in Iran, which is like an Isle at the end of the world, there is a very little chance of obtaining them and checking them out.

            Finally thanks a lot for introducing Barth's story. I'll try to find it on the web. However there seems to a real craze these days to change some printed texts of fictions into hypertexts. You can find some works which are actually transformed into hypertext on the following link:
            http://www.duke.edu/~mshumate/print.html

            I intended to write to a hypertextual article about Hypertext and Barth, but it seems one can hardly find a hypertextual work by Barth other than Lost in Funhouse.

            Thanks again for your reply.
            MEhdy

            P.S. Would mind telling me which university are you teaching in?

            Krzysztof Majer <kmajer@...> wrote:
            Hi Mehdy! Thanks for responding!

            > I have not read only few of Barth's books and I am already
            > translating one into Persian.

            Always a worthy and important enterprise, translation! I do remember
            several e-mails from you a while back, but could you remind me if
            there have been any JB translations into Persian already? Are you a
            pioneer in the field, so to speak? I do a bit of translating myself,
            mostly academic articles, although my training is in literary
            translation and I hope to do more of it in future.

            JB is rather tough to render into another language, and he actually
            makes a point of that himself once or twice in 3 Roads (I think in the
            3rd novella, "this will be lost in transcript and translation" ,
            sonething like that). Back in university days we could often choose
            our own texts for translation projects, so long as they were fiction
            and short - could be stories or bits of novels - and I once did the
            opening 5 or so pages of Coming Soon!!!, probably the most challenging
            bit of translation I've ever done (and that includes the first several
            pages of Gravity's Rainbow on a similar occasion). But fortunately at
            least half of JB's catalogue is available in Polish, some of it done
            very well by experienced translators far abler than Yours Truly. Alas,
            "Giles" is still not among them...

            > I am really amazed by how different each book of his, has been from
            > the otherI have read Floating Opera, Lost in Funhouse, and right
            > now I am reading Giles Goat Boy which is really wonderful.

            True - surely my recent gibe would not apply to these three. "Giles"
            and "Sot-Weed Factor" are two of my absolute Barth favorites, so I go
            along with this heartily. Of course, we have quite a bit of dissent in
            the group here - fortunately! - as regards JB's favorites and
            most-hated. Cheers for diversity, anyhow.

            > At first it was a bit difficult to understand the analogy that he
            > wonderfully made between Universe and University.

            I had that, too, the first time around, my main problem being that it
            is specifically the American university that the Universe resembles
            (or, rather, is). Surely for someone who has been through it, the
            humor would have been still more appealing. The Polish system is in
            many ways very different and so it took a bit of learning how the
            American university actually works to clarify some aspects of the book
            for me. The second time it went much more smoothly.

            > The idea of Universe as a University may have struck many authors,
            > but I believe that only few can change it to a true work of art.

            It may have, indeed, but can we think of any? Probably no-one but the
            elegant, diligent JB would have pushed this "extended metaphor" quite
            this far and have it spawn a 600-pages-plus novel, but do other works
            which attempt at least a similar thing spring to mind? I don't of
            course mean the "university novel" done by people like Amis the Elder,
            Bradbury or Lodge. But it would have been someone endowed with a
            satirical bent, Swiftian perhaps? Or maybe Swift himself did it? I
            read "Gulliver" all too long ago to remember. Anyone?

            > Currently I am working on an article about the electronic textuality
            > and I wonder if I anyone can introduce me any of Barth's novel that
            > can be easily changed into a hypertext,

            I'm not sure about novels, since I guess that JB - despite all his
            metafictional tricks - is after all a linear writer. OK, so he did
            have "The Frame Tale" in Funhouse, but still... There's the story
            "Click!" in the recent volume of short fiction, The Book of Ten Nights
            and a Night. I rather liked the story and even assigned to students
            last year in an additional class dedicated to postmodernist writing
            (along with Coover's "Shootout at Gentry's Junction", brilliant for
            exemplifying genre parody, high/low culture mixup, etc, and extracts
            from Calvino's "If on a Winter's Night a Traveler"). It is not, I take
            it, itself a hypertext, but rather a story about hypertextuality, its
            point being that language & reality themselves are hypertextual, and
            therefore all writing must be. So since the story tries to prove, as I
            see it, that all writing is per se hypertextual, it might be just a
            tad disconcerting to transform that into an actual hypertext (?). A
            fun story to read, anyway, and it used to be available online, maybe
            still is. Surely our linkmaster Mark here has it stored somewhere? Or
            maybe Dave Edelman's site lists it?

            Once again, thanks for weighing in, Mehdy! Do tell us more about the
            reception of JB in your country or how much of his work is actually
            available. Also, which one are you working on, translation- wise?

            K



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          • Krzysztof Majer
            ... people are confused whether to pronounce Kieslowski s name as Krishtof or Kristof Neither. :) Most people get confused by the r in Krz , but in this
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 17, 2006
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              Mehdy asks:
              > So please answer it for 1001st time because there are still some
              people are confused whether to pronounce Kieslowski's name as Krishtof
              or Kristof

              Neither. :) Most people get confused by the 'r' in 'Krz', but in this
              case both the 'rz' and 'sz' are pronounced 'sh'. So Kieslowski's name,
              and mine, is actually pronounced 'kshishtof', stress on the first
              syllable. 1001st time, I like that. :)

              > As for the translations of J.B. I am the pioneer in the field

              Three cheers, and may you persist in the effort!

              > I have translated and published Kurt Vonnegut's Timequake to
              > Persian.

              Poland's got Vonnegut pretty well covered, I think all of his books
              have been translated (possibly not "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater", but
              can't remember now). Any reason for translating "Timequake" and not
              something else? (again, depending on what's available in Persian, of
              course?) Was it the latest at the time? I remember when it came out,
              but I wasn't that thrilled with it - possibly zoomed through it too fast.

              > The main problem for translating Barth here, in addition to his >
              stylistical difficulties, is that some people still are reminded of
              Roland Barthes when I speak about Barth with them

              Heh! We Poles also tend to pronounce both names similarly or
              identically, and yes, sometimes it's necessary to distinguish "the
              American writer" from "the French critic".

              > I have chosen to translate Dunyazad from Chimera and a few other
              > stories from Lost in Funhouse. So it's gonna be a collection of his
              older works.

              The good thing about the three Chimera novellas - among plenty other
              good things about them! - and some of the Funhouse pieces is that, fit
              though they do in the overall scheme of the whole book, they stand
              pretty well on their own (maybe not Bellerophoniad, so much - that
              probably requires the preceding two as launchpad?). Looks like an
              interesting collection! Make sure to tell us which pieces have been
              finally selected. And I assume there are opportunities to publish this?

              > When I said that there are many writers who have tried to make an
              analogy between Universe and University I had no specific novel in
              mind, I just tried to be on the safe side.

              Sure, no problem - I was just trying to rack my brains and think of
              someone else who might have done so, it was an interesting question.
              Still is! Anyone?

              > You can find some works which are actually transformed into
              hypertext on the following link:
              > http://www.duke.edu/~mshumate/print.html

              Unfortunately it seems like the site hasn't been updated in quite a
              while as hardly any link works. I browsed a few essays, but was most
              interested in the new, hypertextual garb for such warhorses as
              Melville's "Bartleby", which was linked on the page but could not be
              accessed. Come to think of it, "Moby Dick" would make a nice
              electronic version! Lots of work, of course.

              > I intended to write to a hypertextual article about Hypertext and
              Barth, but it seems one can hardly find a hypertextual work by Barth
              other than Lost in Funhouse.

              And I would argue that even Funhouse is perfectly linear. :) But then
              you could write about Barth's "rebelling along traditional lines", or
              however he called it, and why - contrary to his peers such as Robert
              Coover, who coaches young hypertextualites at Brown University - he
              shirks from the new mode altogether. And why he never did go in for
              the forking, alternative story-paths that Coover explored way before
              actual hypertext in his "Pricksongs and Descants" collection, and that
              came out more or less at the same time as Funhouse (1969 or so for
              Coover?). Barth never did write such things as "The Babysitter", "The
              Magic Poker" or "The Gingerbread House"... and always claimed he's
              interested in taking "a more scenic route", the destination being
              nonetheless fixed. Would be interesting to explore, methinks. Why does
              the old rebel draw a line where he draws it? Etc.

              > P.S. Would mind telling me which university are you teaching in?

              Uni of Lodz, Poland. I also work at a teacher's college in a nearby town.

              K
            • Krzysztof Majer
              ... is still there, there was a link on Dave s site. http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/barth.htm K
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 17, 2006
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                ... is still there, there was a link on Dave's site.

                http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/barth.htm

                K
              • M. Sedaghat Payam
                Hi Krzysztof Thanks a lot for the pronunciation, but now in addition to being hard to write and pronounce, it has a bit funny meaning in Persian. Of course
                Message 7 of 8 , Jun 18, 2006
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                  Hi Krzysztof

                  Thanks a lot for the pronunciation, but now in addition to being hard to write and pronounce, it has a bit funny meaning in Persian. Of course with a slightly different pronunciation it sounds "Spit on the Priest." No offense intended, but it makes me like that much more because I hate them and all the clergies and all those whose profession is making money out of religion.

                  I chose to translate Vonnegut's Timequake because it was (and still is) his last novel and I had just finished my M.A. thesis on Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions and Slaughterhouse-five. Furthermore the book was offered to me by a prominent publisher and the offer was too good for me to put it down. TQ can not repeat the past successes of K.V. such as B of C, or SF5, but it is still a very good book because of its plot structure, which is highly experimental and even different from the circular narrative of SF5. It's just a hotchpotch of everything Vonnegut has experienced or still experiences in his life. I may include it in may article on Hypertext Fiction.

                  I believe too that the first and second stories of Chimera can be read and enjoyed on their own, but Barth by choosing Chimera, which has, as you know, he body of a goat, the tail of a snake or dragon and the head of a lion, weaves the stories together internally. Very clever of him. Sure I will tell you about the stories which I will include. Until now I have chosen Lost in Funhouse, Title, and Night-sea Journey. And yeah there is a good chance of publishing them if the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance, doesn't understand that the narrator of the Night-see Journey is a sperm. They are all the only barrier, if I can overcome that and they consider the stories as "Not Harmful for the Common Faith" Barth will be published in Persian too.

                  I prefer the novels which have a "more scenic route" too, and maybe that has made me a huge fan of Barth. But I like to have a research on the hypterxtuality in literature because it has a great potential for innovation. Moreover I believe in order for a writer to be rebelious, as you put it, he mustn't be a radical or at least I prefer him not to be like that.

                  Hurray for the "old rebel"

                  MEhdy

                  Krzysztof Majer <kmajer@...> wrote:
                  Mehdy asks:
                  > So please answer it for 1001st time because there are still some
                  people are confused whether to pronounce Kieslowski's name as Krishtof
                  or Kristof

                  Neither. :) Most people get confused by the 'r' in 'Krz', but in this
                  case both the 'rz' and 'sz' are pronounced 'sh'. So Kieslowski's name,
                  and mine, is actually pronounced 'kshishtof', stress on the first
                  syllable. 1001st time, I like that. :)

                  > As for the translations of J.B. I am the pioneer in the field

                  Three cheers, and may you persist in the effort!

                  > I have translated and published Kurt Vonnegut's Timequake to
                  > Persian.

                  Poland's got Vonnegut pretty well covered, I think all of his books
                  have been translated (possibly not "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater", but
                  can't remember now). Any reason for translating "Timequake" and not
                  something else? (again, depending on what's available in Persian, of
                  course?) Was it the latest at the time? I remember when it came out,
                  but I wasn't that thrilled with it - possibly zoomed through it too fast.

                  > The main problem for translating Barth here, in addition to his >
                  stylistical difficulties, is that some people still are reminded of
                  Roland Barthes when I speak about Barth with them

                  Heh! We Poles also tend to pronounce both names similarly or
                  identically, and yes, sometimes it's necessary to distinguish "the
                  American writer" from "the French critic".

                  > I have chosen to translate Dunyazad from Chimera and a few other
                  > stories from Lost in Funhouse. So it's gonna be a collection of his
                  older works.

                  The good thing about the three Chimera novellas - among plenty other
                  good things about them! - and some of the Funhouse pieces is that, fit
                  though they do in the overall scheme of the whole book, they stand
                  pretty well on their own (maybe not Bellerophoniad, so much - that
                  probably requires the preceding two as launchpad?). Looks like an
                  interesting collection! Make sure to tell us which pieces have been
                  finally selected. And I assume there are opportunities to publish this?

                  > When I said that there are many writers who have tried to make an
                  analogy between Universe and University I had no specific novel in
                  mind, I just tried to be on the safe side.

                  Sure, no problem - I was just trying to rack my brains and think of
                  someone else who might have done so, it was an interesting question.
                  Still is! Anyone?

                  > You can find some works which are actually transformed into
                  hypertext on the following link:
                  > http://www.duke. edu/~mshumate/ print.html

                  Unfortunately it seems like the site hasn't been updated in quite a
                  while as hardly any link works. I browsed a few essays, but was most
                  interested in the new, hypertextual garb for such warhorses as
                  Melville's "Bartleby", which was linked on the page but could not be
                  accessed. Come to think of it, "Moby Dick" would make a nice
                  electronic version! Lots of work, of course.

                  > I intended to write to a hypertextual article about Hypertext and
                  Barth, but it seems one can hardly find a hypertextual work by Barth
                  other than Lost in Funhouse.

                  And I would argue that even Funhouse is perfectly linear. :) But then
                  you could write about Barth's "rebelling along traditional lines", or
                  however he called it, and why - contrary to his peers such as Robert
                  Coover, who coaches young hypertextualites at Brown University - he
                  shirks from the new mode altogether. And why he never did go in for
                  the forking, alternative story-paths that Coover explored way before
                  actual hypertext in his "Pricksongs and Descants" collection, and that
                  came out more or less at the same time as Funhouse (1969 or so for
                  Coover?). Barth never did write such things as "The Babysitter", "The
                  Magic Poker" or "The Gingerbread House"... and always claimed he's
                  interested in taking "a more scenic route", the destination being
                  nonetheless fixed. Would be interesting to explore, methinks. Why does
                  the old rebel draw a line where he draws it? Etc.

                  > P.S. Would mind telling me which university are you teaching in?

                  Uni of Lodz, Poland. I also work at a teacher's college in a nearby town.

                  K



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                • Krzysztof Majer
                  ... Haha, well, that s just about the coolest thing I ve ever heard about my name. :)) Not that I identify with the concept, it s just hilarious. Wait till I
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 19, 2006
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                    Mehdy sez:
                    > Of course with a slightly different pronunciation it sounds
                    > "Spit on the Priest."

                    Haha, well, that's just about the coolest thing I've ever heard about
                    my name. :)) Not that I identify with the concept, it's just
                    hilarious. Wait till I tell my friends this!

                    > I chose to translate Vonnegut's Timequake because it was (and
                    still is) his last novel and I had just finished my M.A. thesis on
                    Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions and Slaughterhouse-five.

                    I read it in my "going off Vonnegut" phase, which possibly explains
                    why I wasn't riveted by it. Also, I wouldn't have been too familiar
                    with postmodernist tactics at the time (apart from what Vonnegut
                    himself did in his novels, but that wouldn't have been clear enough in
                    my mind either); could be I'd appreciate it much more now. I might
                    also have read too many Vonnegut novels in a row.

                    There are some I often think of revisiting - obviously "Slaughterhouse
                    5", but also "Sirens of Titan" (not a favorite among Vonnegut fans, it
                    seems, but I loved it) or "Deadeye Dick". Not sure about "Breakfast of
                    Champions", I thought it was too experimental for its own good, if one
                    may say so. Or, to put it differently, this particular kind of
                    experimentation didn't seem to me like Vonnegut's forte. But - again -
                    I think fondly about a lot of his novels, and am quite sure there were
                    tons of things I missed out on, reading them quickly in high school.

                    > Until now I have chosen Lost in Funhouse, Title, and Night-sea
                    > Journey.

                    Sounds like a fairly representative bunch. I started liking
                    "Anonymiad" very much the second time around. I had a very hard time
                    figuring it out when I first read it, not to mention - Mark just did -
                    "Menelaiad"! I was completely lost in the frames (or rather in between
                    them). My ignorance of Menelaos' story as told by the Greeks can't
                    have helped, either. "Menelaiad" I still find very patience-trying,
                    but "Anonymiad" has become one of my favorite stories in the set. At
                    the same time such pieces as "Title" have largely lost their allure
                    for me. But - as I said above - that one also is representative of his
                    ideas at the time, at least some of them. Of course, the best bet
                    would be to do the whole book... :)

                    > And yeah there is a good chance of publishing them if the Ministry
                    > of Culture and Islamic Guidance, doesn't understand that the >
                    narrator of the Night-see Journey is a sperm.

                    I think it's very likely that they will miss that. :) A lot of readers
                    do, including some critics (at least that must have been the case at
                    the time of publishing; in one of his essays JB mentions his
                    astonishment when he read that his narrator was "some kind of strange
                    fish", or somesuch). I was luckily (unluckily?) exempted from that
                    test, because the blurb of the Polish edition of Funhouse made it
                    clear that it's a sperm, who later, etc., etc. Incidentally, that's
                    how I got into Barth, having picked up "Funhouse" at a second-hand and
                    being sufficiently intrigued to give it a shot...

                    > Moreover I believe in order for a writer to be rebelious, as you
                    > put it, he mustn't be a radical or at least I prefer him not to be
                    > like that.

                    I mostly said that's JB's view, which I take to be at least slightly
                    self-serving. I think we'd mostly agree here - our liking or disliking
                    his recent pieces aside - that he hasn't been pushing any new
                    boundaries for a long while. Although he is remarkably (or, perhaps
                    frightfully?) consistent in continuing to push the ones one would have
                    thought are almost not there anymore... But there, I'll get off the
                    horse before I start ranting about "3 Roads" again. :)

                    > Hurray for the "old rebel"

                    Hurray indeed, although I can't help but see him more as a war veteran
                    than someone who is "old and still a rebel". Which is not bad, the
                    former, methinks?

                    K
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