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RE: [John_Lit] Readiing strategy [was Why ascribed to John?]

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  • Frank Glenn
    At 09:11 AM 10/27/00 +0100, Pete wrote: (snip) ... At the risk of starting a flame war, may I suggest that your comments about creating text in our own
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 27, 2000
      At 09:11 AM 10/27/00 +0100, Pete wrote:
      (snip)
      >2. Ken's comment about fundamental exegetes - do I understand you correctly
      >to mean historical critics here :) - the most fundamentalist of all
      >categories of scholars. If you think I (or Jeff Staley, a I understand
      >from reading his books) speak from a fundamentalist standpoint then you
      >have created me in your own image just as we all create the text in our own
      >image.
      >3. I agree completely that historical criticism itself is a reading
      >strategy. Unfortunately too few historical critics reflect upon this.
      > Instead HC is put across as a science, as that which is beyond
      >questioning. The decisions of HC become fact and everything else is
      >therefore fiction.
      >4. What is the goal of Historical Criticism? To reach the earliest text,
      >stratum, tradition, purest truth? Of course for the Jesus Seminar this
      >means recreating Jesus and the Jesus tradition in order to allow Funk to
      >demote Jesus and request a new canon. Is there not a risk of those of us
      >who do HC uncritically of following this line in thousands of other ways -
      >recreating Christianity in our image, recreating the text in our own image.

      At the risk of starting a "flame" war, may I suggest that your comments
      about "creating text in our own image" and objection to Ken's purported
      creation of you in his own image, you have done the same for Funk and the
      Jesus Seminar?
      Seems a little like a double standard to me.

      Frank (closely related to your "Frankenstein") ;)
      Frank Glenn
      Interim Pastor

      P.S. Don't forget to visit the Hunger Site today and every day.
      Every time you do you feed a few hungry people somewhere in the world.
      http://www.thehungersite.com
    • Pete Phillips
      Come on! Funk s theses at the end of Honest to Jesus include these very suggestions - see Honest to Jesus, pages - demotion of Jesus so that we see him as
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 27, 2000
        Come on! Funk's theses at the end of Honest to Jesus include these very
        suggestions - see Honest to Jesus, pages - demotion of Jesus so that we
        see him as an ordinary Jewish guy with a powerful message, and the
        re-appraisal of a canon to include the Gospel of Thomas and other
        non-canonical works. I was not being unfair to Funk since I was merely
        quoting his works. I'm sure this could be verified by anyone else who has
        actually read Honest to Jesus.

        I am sorry that my comments have rustled feathers and have sent a personal
        noet to Frank. I think this thread must be closed now as it is certainly
        way beyond Johannine Literature??? If anyone wants to write privately -
        then p.m.phillips@... will get me!

        Pete

        Peter Phillips
        New Testament Lecturer and Director of Studies,
        Cliff College,
        Calver,
        Hope Valley, Derbyshire, UK

        Tel: +44 1246 582321 x122
        Fax: +44 1246 583739




        -----Original Message-----
        From: Frank Glenn [SMTP:fcg3@...]
        Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 03:05
        To: johannine_literature@egroups.com
        Subject: RE: [John_Lit] Readiing strategy [was Why ascribed to John?]

        At 09:11 AM 10/27/00 +0100, Pete wrote:
        (snip)
        >2. Ken's comment about fundamental exegetes - do I understand you
        correctly
        >to mean historical critics here :) - the most fundamentalist of all
        >categories of scholars. If you think I (or Jeff Staley, a I understand
        >from reading his books) speak from a fundamentalist standpoint then you
        >have created me in your own image just as we all create the text in our
        own
        >image.
        >3. I agree completely that historical criticism itself is a reading
        >strategy. Unfortunately too few historical critics reflect upon this.
        > Instead HC is put across as a science, as that which is beyond
        >questioning. The decisions of HC become fact and everything else is
        >therefore fiction.
        >4. What is the goal of Historical Criticism? To reach the earliest text,
        >stratum, tradition, purest truth? Of course for the Jesus Seminar this
        >means recreating Jesus and the Jesus tradition in order to allow Funk to
        >demote Jesus and request a new canon. Is there not a risk of those of us
        >who do HC uncritically of following this line in thousands of other ways -
        >recreating Christianity in our image, recreating the text in our own
        image.

        At the risk of starting a "flame" war, may I suggest that your comments
        about "creating text in our own image" and objection to Ken's purported
        creation of you in his own image, you have done the same for Funk and the
        Jesus Seminar?
        Seems a little like a double standard to me.

        Frank (closely related to your "Frankenstein") ;)
        Frank Glenn
        Interim Pastor

        P.S. Don't forget to visit the Hunger Site today and every day.
        Every time you do you feed a few hungry people somewhere in the world.
        http://www.thehungersite.com


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