Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [John_Lit] Readiing strategy [was Why ascribed to John?]

Expand Messages
  • Pete Phillips
    OK, I suppose it is time to kill of the reading strategy thing. I just wanted to close with a few final thoughts: 1. Thanks Jeff and the others who have shown
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 27, 2000
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      OK, I suppose it is time to kill of the reading strategy thing. I just
      wanted to close with a few final thoughts:

      1. Thanks Jeff and the others who have shown understanding and , less
      importantly, support in this thread.
      2. Ken's comment about fundamental exegetes - do I understand you correctly
      to mean historical critics here :) - the most fundamentalist of all
      categories of scholars. If you think I (or Jeff Staley, a I understand
      from reading his books) speak from a fundamentalist standpoint then you
      have created me in your own image just as we all create the text in our own
      image.
      3. I agree completely that historical criticism itself is a reading
      strategy. Unfortunately too few historical critics reflect upon this.
      Instead HC is put across as a science, as that which is beyond
      questioning. The decisions of HC become fact and everything else is
      therefore fiction.
      4. What is the goal of Historical Criticism? To reach the earliest text,
      stratum, tradition, purest truth? Of course for the Jesus Seminar this
      means recreating Jesus and the Jesus tradition in order to allow Funk to
      demote Jesus and request a new canon. Is there not a risk of those of us
      who do HC uncritically of following this line in thousands of other ways -
      recreating Christianity in our image, recreating the text in our own image.

      Well, I better stop...One day I think we may well look back and see the
      last two hundred years as an interesting aside in Biblical studies - after
      all the true tradition is in literary readings of scripture and analysing
      the body as a whole rather than dismembering it and then studying a
      Frankenstein of our own creation.

      With respect,

      Pete

      Peter Phillips
      New Testament Lecturer and Director of Studies,
      Cliff College,
      Calver,
      Hope Valley, Derbyshire, UK

      Tel: +44 1246 582321 x122
      Fax: +44 1246 583739
    • Frank Glenn
      At 09:11 AM 10/27/00 +0100, Pete wrote: (snip) ... At the risk of starting a flame war, may I suggest that your comments about creating text in our own
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 27, 2000
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        At 09:11 AM 10/27/00 +0100, Pete wrote:
        (snip)
        >2. Ken's comment about fundamental exegetes - do I understand you correctly
        >to mean historical critics here :) - the most fundamentalist of all
        >categories of scholars. If you think I (or Jeff Staley, a I understand
        >from reading his books) speak from a fundamentalist standpoint then you
        >have created me in your own image just as we all create the text in our own
        >image.
        >3. I agree completely that historical criticism itself is a reading
        >strategy. Unfortunately too few historical critics reflect upon this.
        > Instead HC is put across as a science, as that which is beyond
        >questioning. The decisions of HC become fact and everything else is
        >therefore fiction.
        >4. What is the goal of Historical Criticism? To reach the earliest text,
        >stratum, tradition, purest truth? Of course for the Jesus Seminar this
        >means recreating Jesus and the Jesus tradition in order to allow Funk to
        >demote Jesus and request a new canon. Is there not a risk of those of us
        >who do HC uncritically of following this line in thousands of other ways -
        >recreating Christianity in our image, recreating the text in our own image.

        At the risk of starting a "flame" war, may I suggest that your comments
        about "creating text in our own image" and objection to Ken's purported
        creation of you in his own image, you have done the same for Funk and the
        Jesus Seminar?
        Seems a little like a double standard to me.

        Frank (closely related to your "Frankenstein") ;)
        Frank Glenn
        Interim Pastor

        P.S. Don't forget to visit the Hunger Site today and every day.
        Every time you do you feed a few hungry people somewhere in the world.
        http://www.thehungersite.com
      • Pete Phillips
        Come on! Funk s theses at the end of Honest to Jesus include these very suggestions - see Honest to Jesus, pages - demotion of Jesus so that we see him as
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 27, 2000
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Come on! Funk's theses at the end of Honest to Jesus include these very
          suggestions - see Honest to Jesus, pages - demotion of Jesus so that we
          see him as an ordinary Jewish guy with a powerful message, and the
          re-appraisal of a canon to include the Gospel of Thomas and other
          non-canonical works. I was not being unfair to Funk since I was merely
          quoting his works. I'm sure this could be verified by anyone else who has
          actually read Honest to Jesus.

          I am sorry that my comments have rustled feathers and have sent a personal
          noet to Frank. I think this thread must be closed now as it is certainly
          way beyond Johannine Literature??? If anyone wants to write privately -
          then p.m.phillips@... will get me!

          Pete

          Peter Phillips
          New Testament Lecturer and Director of Studies,
          Cliff College,
          Calver,
          Hope Valley, Derbyshire, UK

          Tel: +44 1246 582321 x122
          Fax: +44 1246 583739




          -----Original Message-----
          From: Frank Glenn [SMTP:fcg3@...]
          Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 03:05
          To: johannine_literature@egroups.com
          Subject: RE: [John_Lit] Readiing strategy [was Why ascribed to John?]

          At 09:11 AM 10/27/00 +0100, Pete wrote:
          (snip)
          >2. Ken's comment about fundamental exegetes - do I understand you
          correctly
          >to mean historical critics here :) - the most fundamentalist of all
          >categories of scholars. If you think I (or Jeff Staley, a I understand
          >from reading his books) speak from a fundamentalist standpoint then you
          >have created me in your own image just as we all create the text in our
          own
          >image.
          >3. I agree completely that historical criticism itself is a reading
          >strategy. Unfortunately too few historical critics reflect upon this.
          > Instead HC is put across as a science, as that which is beyond
          >questioning. The decisions of HC become fact and everything else is
          >therefore fiction.
          >4. What is the goal of Historical Criticism? To reach the earliest text,
          >stratum, tradition, purest truth? Of course for the Jesus Seminar this
          >means recreating Jesus and the Jesus tradition in order to allow Funk to
          >demote Jesus and request a new canon. Is there not a risk of those of us
          >who do HC uncritically of following this line in thousands of other ways -
          >recreating Christianity in our image, recreating the text in our own
          image.

          At the risk of starting a "flame" war, may I suggest that your comments
          about "creating text in our own image" and objection to Ken's purported
          creation of you in his own image, you have done the same for Funk and the
          Jesus Seminar?
          Seems a little like a double standard to me.

          Frank (closely related to your "Frankenstein") ;)
          Frank Glenn
          Interim Pastor

          P.S. Don't forget to visit the Hunger Site today and every day.
          Every time you do you feed a few hungry people somewhere in the world.
          http://www.thehungersite.com


          SUBSCRIBE: e-mail johannine_literature-subscribe@egroups.com
          UNSUBSCRIBE: e-mail johannine_literature-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          PROBLEMS?: e-mail johannine_literature-owner@egroups.com
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.