Re: [John_Lit] FG and Synoptics
- Once more to the feeding stories: One has to realize that Mark duplicated the feeding story in order to argue the separation of the tables of jewish and heathen Christians along with his authorities Peter and James. He dates this seperation back to Jesus himselve. His source is the feeding story in what you may call proto-"John". Matthew stresses once more the authority of Peter and follows Mark. Luke as pupil of Paul returns to only one feeding, because Paul opposed to the seperation of tabeles as he tells us in Acts.
Compare my article: Von den zwei Speisungen des Markus zu den zwei Aussendungen des Lukas. Die Auseinandersetzung um die paulinischen Heidenmission in der synoptischen Tradition, in: J. Hainz (Hg.), Theologie im Werden³, Gedenkschrift für O. Kuss, Düsseldorf 1992, 143-155.
And also: Modell und Vorlage der Synoptiker Das vorredaktionelle Johannesevangelium, Darmstadt (Georg-Olms-Verlag), 206 Seiten, 1997, 42-46.
Univ.-Prof. DDr. Peter Hofrichter
Vorstand des Instituts für Kirchengeschichte und Patrologie
Universitätsplatz 1, A-5020 Salzburg, Austria
Tel +43/662/8044/2700, 2704, Fax 2709
privat: Wallmannhofstrasse 3, A-5400 Hallein, Austria
Tel/Fax +43/6245/85010, +43/664/2027098
- Peter Hofrichter wrote:
> Of course, we have no direct litterary evidenceIrenaeus is writing towared the end of the Second
> [for believing that Gnosticism might date to the 30s
> or40s], but some indirect:
> Our sources of the 2nd century, especially Irenaeus,
> show alredy a big variety and decadence of the
> gnostic speculations and systems. This implies
> already a long development.
Century C.E. -- about 180, correct?
By "decadence", I presume that you mean "highly
developed". Yes, there were a number of highly
developed Gnostic Systems, but I don't know that this
implies a long development.
Manichaeism, for instance, was from its origin a
highly developed Gnostic system. Mani took from many
sources to develop his own complex Gnostic religion --
arguably, the most highly developed of them all. He
did this within about 40 years, and he probably had it
all worked out in fewer.
> Irenaeus traces gnosticism back to Simon Magus ofI don't think that we have any solid evidence that
> Lukes Acts of the Aposles who became acquainted to
> the Jesus-movement through Philippus, probably in
> the cirties. I dont think theat Simon Magus was the
> very founder of gnosticism but a prominent and
> especially negative representative in a broader
> stream mainly within the hellenistic Church.
Simon Magus was really a Gnostic. Irenaeus is writing
many years later and may be conflating heresies. I
don't see much in Acts to support the view that Simon
Magus was a Gnostic.
> Most gnostic mythologies are derived from theIs it the case that most Gnostic mythologies were
> prologue of John without showing any trace of the
> FG. That means they had its common origin before
> Logos-Hymn was commented by the author of the FG and
> included in his work.
derived from John's prologue? And do you really mean
that -- you seem, rather, to mean that the Gnostics
uses an extra-Johannine version of a proto-Johannine
Perhaps this is too far from Johannine themes for us
to continue -- though Bultmann's Gnostic hypothesis
concerning the fourth gospel still holds an attraction
for some scholars, so there might be reason to
continue. I suppose that we could see if others have
any interest in this thread.
Dr. Horace Jeffery Hodges, Lecturer
College of Continuing Education
449 Wolyoung-Dong, Habpo-Gu
Masan, Kyungnam 631-701
Republic of Korea
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