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Re: [John_Lit] A Grammatico-theological Question

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  • ProfRam@aol.com
    Isn t there an analogy between the Word was God and a number of expressions in which God is the subject and something else the predicate, such as God is
    Message 1 of 76 , Sep 12, 2000
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      Isn't there an analogy between "the Word was God" and a number of expressions
      in which "God" is the subject and something else the predicate, such as "God
      is Spirit," "God is Love," and "God is Light." In these instances there is
      not a simple equation so that the two could be reversed (Spirit is God,
      etc.), yet neither is the predicate simply adjectival (as if to say God is
      spiritual, God is loving or God is bright). In Jn 1:1, when we say "the Word
      was divine," we make theos simply adjectival, and this doesn't quite make it

      On this analogy,"the Word was God" is still the best translation. Just as
      Spirit, Light, and Love are seen as attributes of God without being quite
      reduced to adjectives, so "God" in Jn 1:1 is an attribute of the Word without
      being reduced to the adjectival "divine." Just as "God" defines for the
      Christian believer what love is, or what light or spirit are, so the Word or
      Son of God defines for the Christian believer what or who God is. Does this
      anaology help?

      Ramsey Michaels
    • Maluflen@aol.com
      In a message dated 9/18/2000 5:39:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, antonio.jerez@privat.utfors.se writes: [Responding to Leonard, who wrote:] Antonio, no
      Message 76 of 76 , Sep 18, 2000
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        In a message dated 9/18/2000 5:39:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
        antonio.jerez@... writes:

        [Responding to Leonard, who wrote:]
        << > Antonio, no matter how highly elevated a creature is, no matter how
        > to God a creature comes, he is still infinitely -- yes, infinitely
        > to God. If this were the case for Jesus it would have been incumbent on
        > NT authors to make this point perfectly clear. Now there are texts in
        > they do not do so, and in fact many of them confound Jesus quite
        > and quite thoroughly with God. If it is true that Jesus is not God, either
        > these writers were terribly misled, or they are terribly misleading.

        The only problem is that Luke and the other synoptic writers did not
        have to contend with a 20th century highly orthodox chap from America
        who is so infatuated with trinitarianism that he has to force it on the texts
        at all price. Leonard, why don't you take a close look at Peter's speech
        in Acts 2:22-36 again and see if you find any support at all for your
        This is as close to Luke's and the early Jerusalem church's Christology as
        we will ever get, and Jesus is never called or likened to God. He is a MAN
        (v.22) SENT by God (v.22) to fullfill God's plan for humanity (v.23). God
        resurrected him (v24) and MADE him into LORD and MESSIAH (v. 36).

        How do you explain that somebody who is God (as you claim Jesus is) has
        to be made Lord and Messiah by God? >>

        Antonio, it seems you didn't read my post carefully enough (which makes me
        wonder how carefully you read the biblical texts that challenge your
        understanding). What I said was that "there are texts" in the NT in which
        Jesus is thoroughly confounded with God. This is quite compatible, logically,
        with the existence of other texts in which he is not (and was carefully
        formulated precisely so as to accommodate these). The Acts text you cite is
        clearly one such, and, in Chalcedonian terms, it could be said that it is
        simply talking about Jesus as man, under which formality he is of course
        thoroughly subordinated to, distinct from and inferior to God. My only point
        is that there are other texts in which the NT authors, or most of them,
        express a kind of fuzzy identity between Jesus and God. So the God-Man
        construct of the later patristic writers and church councils seems to me to
        do justice the whole of the biblical evidence about Jesus while you seem able
        to handle only one side of the paradox. Keep trying though! It is wonderful
        that you invest so much mental effort in the search.

        Leonard Maluf
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