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Re: [John_Lit] Water and Blood in 1 John 5:6

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  • logosmadeflesh11
    Thanks Tom for your response ... While I can t say for sure what the Gnostics understood by this particular reference to water, I can at least deduce what the
    Message 1 of 33 , Aug 12, 2010
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      Thanks Tom for your response

      > It is in these texts that you can find the equation
      > water = material realm
      > which I think you are searching for.

      While I can't say for sure what the Gnostics understood by this particular reference to water, I can at least deduce what the author of FG and 1 John meant. There is indeed a water in the FG which refers to the material realm. Early on in John water is again and again used in reference to material ritual. John states three times that he baptizes in water, The wedding of Cana has stone waterpots are set there for the Jewish custom of purification, the Samaritan woman continually comes to draw water from "father" Jacob's well (compared with the Samaritans "fathers" worship on this mountain), and the Lame man waits with expectation to find healing in the troubled waters of Bethesda.

      But this isn't the only water found in John as the clear connection in John 7:37-39 indicates. In fact its already present in these earlier references. Note the contrast but more importantly the comparisons in the following instances.

      1) John baptizes with water but Jesus will baptize in the Holy Spirit
      2) The servants take water from waterpots used for purification but Jesus transforms it into wine (Spirit water).
      3) Father Jacob gave the Samaritans a well (Fathers worship on the mountain) but Jesus offers living water (spirit and truth).
      4) The lame man expects healing from a troubled pool but Christ's is the one who actually provides the healing.

      In each instance what Jesus offers (the Holy Spirit) is either implicitly or explicitly described as water. The only difference between these two waters is that one is connected with Jesus while the other is not.

      The later half of John's water motif continues this trend. Jesus heals the blind man in the pool of Siloam. Siloam means sent just as Jesus is sent from the Father. Before Jesus washes his disciples' feet, he pours water into a basin. As the immediate context suggests this is none other than a symbolic reenactment of the incarnation. Should it be doubtful than that water in John 19:34 and the reference to it in 1 John 5:6 also in some sense mean Spirit?

      Matthew Miller
      Canby Bible College
    • Matthew Miller
      ... Essentially.
      Message 33 of 33 , Aug 20, 2010
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        > I believe that I understand your argument: You want to interpret the first thing
        > in the comparison (water) in a literal fashion- as normal earthly "water" that
        > can only do what it was meant to do in whatever context it is found within John,
        > and then you want to interpret the second thing being compared/contrasted as
        > referring to something "symbolic"- something "more" than what the first thing
        > can do that is being compared/contrasted. Thus your "earthly" and "heavenly"
        > descriptions. Am I correct?

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