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[John_Lit] Revelation 3:20

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  • Elizabeth Danna
    Since the Revelation is part of the Johannine corpus (whatever one s views on authorship might be), I hope no one will object to my asking a question about it
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 8, 2008
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      Since the Revelation is part of the Johannine corpus (whatever one's views on authorship might be), I hope no one will object to my asking a question about it on this group.

      "See, I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with them, and they with me. [21] To the one who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne."

      The usual interpretation of v. 20 is that the knocking is a gentle request for intimacy. Or is it the imperious knocking of the King, demanding (re)entry into territory that rightfully belongs to him? The reward promised to those who overcome (ie. turn away from the self-sufficient complacency into which the Laodicean Christianns had fallen and back to dependency on God) is certainly a royal one (a share of a throne).

      As I write this a niggle in my mind tells me that I have heard this second interpretation somewhere before, but I'm not sure where. Is it familiar to anyone? I'm not sure the two interpretations are mutually exclusive - is the reader to see both intimacy and royalty here? Comments anyone?

      Elizabeth Danna
    • John Lupia
      Dear Elizabeth: First, I suggest to examine these verses within context. If I may. The writing is spiritual or ascetical theology calling the reader to
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 8, 2008
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        Dear Elizabeth:

        First, I suggest to examine these verses within context. If I may.

        The writing is spiritual or ascetical theology calling the reader to literally practice self-discipline. Luke 12:16-21 has a parallel to Rev 3:17-18, about human persons who like Essau rely on the strength of his own hand, not on God. It is a spiritual classification of people who trust in material wealth, Mammon (MAMWNAS), worshiping money or the things it can buy  in lieu of God, again a parallel to the golden calf of Exodus 32:4.

        Christ tells them that true riches are of the spirit when He says "buy from me the gold that is tested in the fire (Rev. 3:18)

        The testing in the fire is expounded on as God disciplining those whom He loves, obviously through the trials, sufferings and hardships of this life to test us and strengthen us so that our hearts become purified "repenting in all earnestness."

        Now here are the verses of your inquiry:

        Christ is telling us that He stands at the door and knocks. The simile of a soul as a house is common in the Gospels,  "Lord I am not worthy that you should come under my roof.", or  "The wise man who listens to me and builds his house on rock.", and so on.

        In other words Jesus is saying He is always present (omnipresent) for everyone waiting to be let into their minds and hearts and make a home with them. And for those who live with Christ and are victorious over sin in their personal lives He will give them the Kingdom of God, an eternal home in glory for ever.

        To apply a mundane interpretation to these verses as appealing to local petty kings diminishes the perceived value of the text and relegates it to the annals of history among documentary papyri and other forms of common literature.

        Best regards,
        John

        John N. Lupia III

        New Jersey, USA; Beirut, Lebanon

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman-Catholic-News/

        God Bless Everyone

        --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Elizabeth Danna <ejdanna@...> wrote:
        From: Elizabeth Danna <ejdanna@...>
        Subject: [John_Lit] Revelation 3:20
        To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:09 PM











        Since the Revelation is part of the Johannine corpus (whatever one's views on authorship might be), I hope no one will object to my asking a question about it on this group.



        "See, I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with them, and they with me. [21] To the one who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne."



        The usual interpretation of v. 20 is that the knocking is a gentle request for intimacy. Or is it the imperious knocking of the King, demanding (re)entry into territory that rightfully belongs to him? The reward promised to those who overcome (ie. turn away from the self-sufficient complacency into which the Laodicean Christianns had fallen and back to dependency on God) is certainly a royal one (a share of a throne).



        As I write this a niggle in my mind tells me that I have heard this second interpretation somewhere before, but I'm not sure where. Is it familiar to anyone? I'm not sure the two interpretations are mutually exclusive - is the reader to see both intimacy and royalty here? Comments anyone?



        Elizabeth Danna





























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • McGrath, James
        Hi Beth! In Kenneth Bailey s recent book, he mentions that calling was normally what friends did when they came to one s door. The cultural background to the
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 8, 2008
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          Hi Beth! In Kenneth Bailey's recent book, he mentions that calling was normally what friends did when they came to one's door. The cultural background to the knocking should be interesting to explore!

          James



          ***************************************************************************************************************

          Dr. James F. McGrath Tel. (317) 940-9364

          Associate Professor of Religion e-mail: jfmcgrat@...<mailto:jfmcgrat@...>

          Butler University, 4600 Sunset Avenue http://blue.butler.edu/~jfmcgrat/

          Indianapolis, IN 46208 http://exploringourmatrix.blogspot.com<http://exploringourmatrix.blogspot.com/>

          ***************************************************************************************************************


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mottrogere3
          Hi Elizabeth, I see the Greek word KROUW which has been translated knock as sort of a gentle tap versus a hard knuckle busting knock that some have
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 8, 2008
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            Hi Elizabeth,

            I see the Greek word KROUW which has been translated "knock" as sort
            of a gentle tap versus a hard knuckle busting knock that some have
            interpreted. There are 9 uses in the NT and all but the tapping by
            Peter in Acts has been an instruction by Jesus to let those
            who "KROUW" into the house.

            Even the Acts account could be the return of Peter to the "Christian"
            home where the Christians in hiding were gathered.

            The two uses of KROUW in the Septuagint also show the importance of
            KROUW. In Judges 19:22, a man who had let a "gentle knocking" person
            enter his home would not release him to unlawful persons on the
            outside, but rather released his concubine to be defiled rather than
            unguard the "gentle tapper". I see this as a metaphor where
            unlawfulness that knocks can not enter the house. But a substitute
            was sent out to be pleasured/abused.

            Jesus has warned his disciples in the NT that not everyone who "says
            Lord, Lord" will be let in.

            Song of Solomon 5:2 is very sensuous about a "gentle tapping" beloved
            man in a dream who calls his "wife" a dove, perfect one, and stays
            the night.

            IMO, Revelation 3:20 uses the Song of Solomon theme perhaps like the
            several uses of KROUW in the NT. The many uses of "beloved" in SGS
            also brings to mind Johannine literature.

            Roger Mott
            Waterloo, Iowa


            --- In johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Danna
            <ejdanna@...> wrote:
            >
            > Since the Revelation is part of the Johannine corpus (whatever
            one's views on authorship might be), I hope no one will object to my
            asking a question about it on this group.
            >
            > "See, I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone hears my
            voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with them, and they
            with me. [21] To the one who overcomes, I will give the right to sit
            with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father
            on his throne."
            >
            > The usual interpretation of v. 20 is that the knocking is a gentle
            request for intimacy. Or is it the imperious knocking of the King,
            demanding (re)entry into territory that rightfully belongs to him?
            The reward promised to those who overcome (ie. turn away from the
            self-sufficient complacency into which the Laodicean Christianns had
            fallen and back to dependency on God) is certainly a royal one (a
            share of a throne).
            >
            > As I write this a niggle in my mind tells me that I have heard this
            second interpretation somewhere before, but I'm not sure where. Is
            it familiar to anyone? I'm not sure the two interpretations are
            mutually exclusive - is the reader to see both intimacy and royalty
            here? Comments anyone?
            >
            > Elizabeth Danna
            >
          • Elizabeth Danna
            ... Thanks Roger for your help here - I haven t been able to get to where I could look it up. ... Thanks James for calling my attention to this - I ll keep it
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 10, 2008
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              On Tue 8/07/08 9:48 PM , "mottrogere3" mottrogere3@... sent:
              > Hi Elizabeth,
              > I see the Greek word KROUW which has been translated "knock" as sort of a gentle tap versus a hard knuckle busting knock >that some have interpreted.

              Thanks Roger for your help here - I haven't been able to get to where I could look it up.

              James McGrath also said:
              >In Kenneth Bailey's recent book, he mentions that calling was normally what friends did when they came to one's door. The >cultural background to the knocking should be interesting to explore!

              Thanks James for calling my attention to this - I'll keep it in mind. What's the title of Bailey's book?

              Thanks to all who replied.
              Elizabeth Danna
            • McGrath, James
              Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes - I ve reviewed the book on my blog at http://exploringourmatrix.blogspot.com/2008/06/review-of-kenneth-e-bailey-jesus.html
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 10, 2008
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                Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes - I've reviewed the book on my blog at http://exploringourmatrix.blogspot.com/2008/06/review-of-kenneth-e-bailey-jesus.html

                James



                ***************************************************************************************************************

                Dr. James F. McGrath Tel. (317) 940-9364

                Associate Professor of Religion e-mail: jfmcgrat@...<mailto:jfmcgrat@...>

                Butler University, 4600 Sunset Avenue http://blue.butler.edu/~jfmcgrat/

                Indianapolis, IN 46208 http://exploringourmatrix.blogspot.com<http://exploringourmatrix.blogspot.com/>

                ***************************************************************************************************************


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