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Re(2): [John_Lit] Re: John as Title

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  • panderso@georgefox.edu
    Looking at the distinctive JB material in John lately, I ve been wondering it there was a JB independent tradition or distinctive theological content that has
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 4, 2000
      Looking at the distinctive JB material in John lately, I've been wondering
      it there was a JB independent tradition or distinctive theological content
      that has made it into the Johannine tradition and was developed
      accordingly.

      While Bultmann's Gnostic Offenbarungsreden theory falls short on a number
      of fronts, I wonder what may have been the case regarding Essene
      perspective, reflecting some upon Charlesworth's work here.

      PA

      Paul N. Anderson
      Professor of Biblical and Quaker Studies
      George Fox University
      Newberg, OR 97132
      503-554-2651
    • panderso@georgefox.edu
      ... Good points, Jeff, yes, I concur. In John, of course, a leading question is who is the Messiah (Jesus vs. John) and the roles of Elijah and Moses are
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 5, 2000
        johannine_literature@egroups.com writes:
        >Thus, the emphasis is on continuity of message, not distinctiveness. By
        >contrast, the Synoptics focus more on the distinctiveness of
        >John's message over against that of Jesus, wouldn't you say?

        Good points, Jeff, yes, I concur. In John, of course, a leading question
        is who is the Messiah (Jesus vs. John) and the roles of Elijah and Moses
        are reserved for Jesus and denied by John for himself (hence a contrast,
        perhaps even a corrective one, with the Marcan presentation).

        On agency, that motif is so thoroughly the fourth evangelist's theological
        schema, but I doubt it originated with the fourth evangelist. I think it
        may even have gone back to Jesus, but what I question is whether JB (thus
        3:31ff.) may also have preached such. If this were the case, it might
        account for the good points Wayne Meeks makes that the religious origin of
        the Johannine sending motif was not Gnostic Revelation Sayings, but the
        Jewish agency motif. The question I'm working with is the degree to which
        the prophetic ministry of JB might have furthered such a theme.

        Here's another: does JB's statement in 1:15 (he was before me and after
        me) lead to the cultic development of the pre-existent Logos motif in the
        Johannine worship setting? Who knows? I think Bultmann may have been on
        to something there (with the JB connection), but I think the answer lies
        in a trajectory other than a Gnostic one.

        Thanks!

        PA



        Paul N. Anderson
        Professor of Biblical and Quaker Studies
        George Fox University
        Newberg, OR 97132
        503-554-2651
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