Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [John_Lit] Re: John as Title

Expand Messages
  • ProfRam@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/3/00 5:08:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!, staleyjl@plu.edu writes:
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 3, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      In a message dated 4/3/00 5:08:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!, staleyjl@...
      writes:

      << Yes. I don't know how else to read John 3:31ff on a narrative level. I
      suspect only 19th-21st century readers would find there a
      different character than John. Not that I'm against 19th-21st century
      readings!
      >>

      If that's the case, then Origen and Heracleon were arguing like a couple of
      19th-21st century readers way back in the 3d century, in their dispute over
      where John's words ended in 1:15-18.

      Ramsey Michaels
    • ProfRam@aol.com
      Another way of putting it is that perhaps the Gospel of John begins the way it does precisely because the author had a tradition of John s pronouncement in
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 6, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        Another way of putting it is that perhaps the Gospel of John begins the way
        it does precisely because the author had a tradition of John's pronouncement
        in 1:15 and 30. So he put 1:1-5 first and then verse 6 simply in order to
        illustrate v 15, by showing that Jesus preceded John in eternity even though
        John's ministry preceded his in time. Could it possibly be that simple?

        Ramsey Michaels
      • ProfRam@aol.com
        Jeff: I guess this line of argument would suggest that John s historical ministry was not messianic. If something like 1:15 or 1:30 were authentic, it would
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 6, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          Jeff:

          I guess this line of argument would suggest that John's historical ministry
          was not messianic.

          If something like 1:15 or 1:30 were authentic, it would suggest that John is
          putting someone else ahead of himself, and this would explain why the author
          of the Gospel liked it so well. It was a self-deprecating statement by John
          that he did not create, but on the contrary had some reason to believe was
          authentic. It would thus contribute to the author's own purpose of "putting
          John in his place."

          Ramsey
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.