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Re: [John_Lit] Tom Butler's theory on the BD

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  • Q Bee
    ... No, what I did was to give you the URL where you could fill in the gaps as well as a book reference. Do you think it would help if I collected the
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
      On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:23 PM, Horace Jeffery Hodges wrote:

      >>> True. Still, someone with the first name of Mary is
      > commissioned in chapter 12 to accomplish an anointing
      > for Jesus' burial. Where is there a jump in logic to
      > expect the person named Mary who goes to the
      > tomb at the earliest opportunity to be other than one
      > who intends to anoint? There is at least a distinct
      > possibility since the synoptics says that she went
      > there to anoint, although that doesn't explain the
      > absence of a clear description of her intent to anoint
      > in 4G.<<
      >
      > If you agree that there are gaps in your argument,
      > then you must also agree that there are jumps in your
      > logic.
      >
      No, what I did was to give you the URL where you could fill in the gaps
      as well as a book reference. Do you think it would help if I collected
      the material and pasted it here rather than have you click on a URL?

      > Anyway, the crucial point in your passage above is
      > that Mary was "commissioned" to anoint Jesus, but on
      > what basis do you conclude this? And even if you could
      > conclude this, and conclude that the commission was to
      > occur on the day of Jesus's burial, then how would you
      > fit this with Mary going to the tomb on a different
      > day?
      >
      > I find your argument too loose to be convincing. To
      > construct a tighter argument, you'd need to look at
      > the specific words, citing the Greek terms and their
      > meanings, and base your conclusions on careful
      > analysis.
      >
      > I think that you've mainly done a loose eisegesis so
      > far.
      >
      Thank you for sharing your judgment.

      Elaine Bessette
      Tacoma, WA
    • Q Bee
      ... If you can show me that the corpse is indeed three days old we can go into this further. If, as we have been told, the Passover was on Saturday, and
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
        On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:22 PM, Lee Edgar Tyler wrote:

        > Would anyone anoint a three-day-old corpse at all? Is there any other
        > evidence that such an act would be at all likely?
        >
        > Ed Tyler
        >

        If you can show me that the corpse is indeed 'three days old' we can go
        into this further. If, as we have been told, the Passover was on
        Saturday, and Jesus' death happened shortly before sundown on the eve
        of the Passover, then before daylight on the day after passover is not
        a three day interval. The gospels seem to imply, I think, that it is
        the 'third day'. If one counts the day of death as day one, the
        Sabbath day as day two, and the pre-dawn time of the following morning
        as day three we have the context in a more reasonable interval, do we
        not? And that really only leave the Sabbath day as a day on which the
        alleged anointing cannot happen.

        Elaine Bessette
        Tacoma, WA
      • Horace Jeffery Hodges
        ... then you must also agree that there are jumps in your logic.
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
          I wrote:

          >>If you agree that there are gaps in your argument,
          then you must also agree that there are jumps in your
          logic.<<

          Elaine wrote:

          >>No, what I did was to give you the URL where you
          could fill in the gaps as well as a book reference. Do
          you think it would help if I collected the material
          and pasted it here rather than have you click on a
          URL?<<

          There were jumps in your logic as presented in your
          argument. It's up to you to fill them in for others on
          this thread.

          Elaine wrote:

          >>Thank you for sharing your judgment.<<

          You're welcome. That's what we're here for. I also
          gave some advice, which we're also here for.

          Jeffery Hodges

          University Degrees:

          Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley
          (Doctoral Thesis: "Food as Synecdoche in John's Gospel and Gnostic Texts")
          M.A., History of Science, U.C. Berkeley
          B.A., English Language and Literature, Baylor University

          Email Address:

          jefferyhodges@...

          Blog:

          http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/

          Office Address:

          Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
          Department of English Language and Literature
          Korea University
          136-701 Anam-dong, Seongbuk-gu
          Seoul
          South Korea

          Home Address:

          Dr. Sun-Ae Hwang and Dr. Horace Jeffery Hodges
          Sehan Apt. 102-2302
          Sinnae-dong 795
          Jungrang-gu
          Seoul 131-770
          South Korea
        • Q Bee
          ... Jeffrey, I ll work on gathering some of the pertinent passages from de Boer s and Jusino s work and post it as time permits. The gaps you perceive are I
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
            On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:57 PM, Horace Jeffery Hodges wrote:

            > There were jumps in your logic as presented in your
            > argument. It's up to you to fill them in for others on
            > this thread.
            >
            > Elaine wrote:
            >
            >>> Thank you for sharing your judgment.<<
            >
            > You're welcome. That's what we're here for. I also
            > gave some advice, which we're also here for.
            >

            Jeffrey,

            I'll work on gathering some of the pertinent passages from de Boer's
            and Jusino's work and post it as time permits. The gaps you perceive
            are I think adequately filled in by de Boer. It will be awhile before
            time permits. ... to be continued...

            Elaine Bessette
            Tacoma, WA
          • Horace Jeffery Hodges
            ... Just for the record, it s Jeffery -- to keep me distinguished from the more distinguished Jeffrey Gibson. Jeffery Hodges University Degrees: Ph.D.,
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
              Elaine wrote:

              >>Jeffrey<<

              Just for the record, it's "Jeffery" -- to keep me
              distinguished from the more distinguished Jeffrey
              Gibson.

              Jeffery Hodges

              University Degrees:

              Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley
              (Doctoral Thesis: "Food as Synecdoche in John's Gospel and Gnostic Texts")
              M.A., History of Science, U.C. Berkeley
              B.A., English Language and Literature, Baylor University

              Email Address:

              jefferyhodges@...

              Blog:

              http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/

              Office Address:

              Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
              Department of English Language and Literature
              Korea University
              136-701 Anam-dong, Seongbuk-gu
              Seoul
              South Korea

              Home Address:

              Dr. Sun-Ae Hwang and Dr. Horace Jeffery Hodges
              Sehan Apt. 102-2302
              Sinnae-dong 795
              Jungrang-gu
              Seoul 131-770
              South Korea
            • Joseph Codsi
              In her reply to Michael S. Tibbs, Elaine Bessette made the following remark:
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
                In her reply to Michael S. Tibbs, Elaine Bessette made the following remark:

                <<If this trip to the tomb were not meant to be an attempt to fulfill the
                customary anointing carried out by the female 'next of kin' we then have a
                new problem in the inconsistency of the previous mention of the substance
                being saved for the burial.>>

                This implies that it was customary in the Jewish society of that time to
                have the female next of kin anoint the body of a man. Is there any evidence
                to this kind of custom?

                I have a problem with the second part of the statement. Where is it said in
                GJohn that the Mary who anointed the feet of Jesus saved a large amount of
                aromatic oil for the real burial of Jesus? Am I missing something here?

                Cheers,

                Joseph

                ================
                Joseph Codsi
                P.O. Box 116-2088
                Beirut, Lebanon
                Telephone (961) 1 423 145
                joseph5@...

                "Within two decades, most of the world's knowledge will be digitized and
                available, one hopes for free reading on the Internet, just as there is free
                reading in libraries today."

                Michael A. Keller, Stanford University head librarian.
                December 2004
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