## Re: [John_Lit] Tom Butler's theory on the BD

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• ... Friday and that Saturday was the Sabbath day, MM appears early, before daylight on the Sunday. It has actually been about a day and a half. If the
Message 1 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
Elaine wrote:

>>Assuming that the death occurred in the afternoon on
Friday and that Saturday was the Sabbath day, MM
appears early, before daylight on the Sunday. It has
actually been about a day and a half. If the anointing
is forbidden on the Sabbath, the next opportunity is
the following morning. 3 day? Hmmm, how do you
calculate that?<<

I don't calculate at all. I merely cite in 'scare'

I stated that there are a lot of "gaps" in your
argument, and you agreed:

>>True. Still, someone with the first name of Mary is
commissioned in chapter 12 to accomplish an anointing
for Jesus' burial. Where is there a jump in logic to
expect the person named Mary who goes to the
tomb at the earliest opportunity to be other than one
who intends to anoint? There is at least a distinct
possibility since the synoptics says that she went
there to anoint, although that doesn't explain the
absence of a clear description of her intent to anoint
in 4G.<<

If you agree that there are gaps in your argument,
then you must also agree that there are jumps in your
logic.

Anyway, the crucial point in your passage above is
that Mary was "commissioned" to anoint Jesus, but on
what basis do you conclude this? And even if you could
conclude this, and conclude that the commission was to
occur on the day of Jesus's burial, then how would you
fit this with Mary going to the tomb on a different
day?

I find your argument too loose to be convincing. To
construct a tighter argument, you'd need to look at
the specific words, citing the Greek terms and their
meanings, and base your conclusions on careful
analysis.

I think that you've mainly done a loose eisegesis so
far.

Jeffery Hodges

University Degrees:

Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley
(Doctoral Thesis: "Food as Synecdoche in John's Gospel and Gnostic Texts")
M.A., History of Science, U.C. Berkeley
B.A., English Language and Literature, Baylor University

jefferyhodges@...

Blog:

http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/

Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
Department of English Language and Literature
Korea University
136-701 Anam-dong, Seongbuk-gu
Seoul
South Korea

Dr. Sun-Ae Hwang and Dr. Horace Jeffery Hodges
Sehan Apt. 102-2302
Sinnae-dong 795
Jungrang-gu
Seoul 131-770
South Korea
• ... No, what I did was to give you the URL where you could fill in the gaps as well as a book reference. Do you think it would help if I collected the
Message 2 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:23 PM, Horace Jeffery Hodges wrote:

>>> True. Still, someone with the first name of Mary is
> commissioned in chapter 12 to accomplish an anointing
> for Jesus' burial. Where is there a jump in logic to
> expect the person named Mary who goes to the
> tomb at the earliest opportunity to be other than one
> who intends to anoint? There is at least a distinct
> possibility since the synoptics says that she went
> there to anoint, although that doesn't explain the
> absence of a clear description of her intent to anoint
> in 4G.<<
>
> If you agree that there are gaps in your argument,
> then you must also agree that there are jumps in your
> logic.
>
No, what I did was to give you the URL where you could fill in the gaps
as well as a book reference. Do you think it would help if I collected
the material and pasted it here rather than have you click on a URL?

> Anyway, the crucial point in your passage above is
> that Mary was "commissioned" to anoint Jesus, but on
> what basis do you conclude this? And even if you could
> conclude this, and conclude that the commission was to
> occur on the day of Jesus's burial, then how would you
> fit this with Mary going to the tomb on a different
> day?
>
> I find your argument too loose to be convincing. To
> construct a tighter argument, you'd need to look at
> the specific words, citing the Greek terms and their
> meanings, and base your conclusions on careful
> analysis.
>
> I think that you've mainly done a loose eisegesis so
> far.
>
Thank you for sharing your judgment.

Elaine Bessette
Tacoma, WA
• ... If you can show me that the corpse is indeed three days old we can go into this further. If, as we have been told, the Passover was on Saturday, and
Message 3 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:22 PM, Lee Edgar Tyler wrote:

> Would anyone anoint a three-day-old corpse at all? Is there any other
> evidence that such an act would be at all likely?
>
> Ed Tyler
>

If you can show me that the corpse is indeed 'three days old' we can go
into this further. If, as we have been told, the Passover was on
Saturday, and Jesus' death happened shortly before sundown on the eve
of the Passover, then before daylight on the day after passover is not
a three day interval. The gospels seem to imply, I think, that it is
the 'third day'. If one counts the day of death as day one, the
Sabbath day as day two, and the pre-dawn time of the following morning
as day three we have the context in a more reasonable interval, do we
not? And that really only leave the Sabbath day as a day on which the
alleged anointing cannot happen.

Elaine Bessette
Tacoma, WA
• ... then you must also agree that there are jumps in your logic.
Message 4 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
I wrote:

>>If you agree that there are gaps in your argument,
then you must also agree that there are jumps in your
logic.<<

Elaine wrote:

>>No, what I did was to give you the URL where you
could fill in the gaps as well as a book reference. Do
you think it would help if I collected the material
and pasted it here rather than have you click on a
URL?<<

There were jumps in your logic as presented in your
argument. It's up to you to fill them in for others on

Elaine wrote:

>>Thank you for sharing your judgment.<<

You're welcome. That's what we're here for. I also
gave some advice, which we're also here for.

Jeffery Hodges

University Degrees:

Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley
(Doctoral Thesis: "Food as Synecdoche in John's Gospel and Gnostic Texts")
M.A., History of Science, U.C. Berkeley
B.A., English Language and Literature, Baylor University

jefferyhodges@...

Blog:

http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/

Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
Department of English Language and Literature
Korea University
136-701 Anam-dong, Seongbuk-gu
Seoul
South Korea

Dr. Sun-Ae Hwang and Dr. Horace Jeffery Hodges
Sehan Apt. 102-2302
Sinnae-dong 795
Jungrang-gu
Seoul 131-770
South Korea
• ... Jeffrey, I ll work on gathering some of the pertinent passages from de Boer s and Jusino s work and post it as time permits. The gaps you perceive are I
Message 5 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:57 PM, Horace Jeffery Hodges wrote:

> There were jumps in your logic as presented in your
> argument. It's up to you to fill them in for others on
>
> Elaine wrote:
>
>>> Thank you for sharing your judgment.<<
>
> You're welcome. That's what we're here for. I also
> gave some advice, which we're also here for.
>

Jeffrey,

I'll work on gathering some of the pertinent passages from de Boer's
and Jusino's work and post it as time permits. The gaps you perceive
are I think adequately filled in by de Boer. It will be awhile before
time permits. ... to be continued...

Elaine Bessette
Tacoma, WA
• ... Just for the record, it s Jeffery -- to keep me distinguished from the more distinguished Jeffrey Gibson. Jeffery Hodges University Degrees: Ph.D.,
Message 6 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
Elaine wrote:

>>Jeffrey<<

Just for the record, it's "Jeffery" -- to keep me
distinguished from the more distinguished Jeffrey
Gibson.

Jeffery Hodges

University Degrees:

Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley
(Doctoral Thesis: "Food as Synecdoche in John's Gospel and Gnostic Texts")
M.A., History of Science, U.C. Berkeley
B.A., English Language and Literature, Baylor University

jefferyhodges@...

Blog:

http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/

Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
Department of English Language and Literature
Korea University
136-701 Anam-dong, Seongbuk-gu
Seoul
South Korea

Dr. Sun-Ae Hwang and Dr. Horace Jeffery Hodges
Sehan Apt. 102-2302
Sinnae-dong 795
Jungrang-gu
Seoul 131-770
South Korea
• In her reply to Michael S. Tibbs, Elaine Bessette made the following remark:
Message 7 of 12 , Oct 11, 2005
In her reply to Michael S. Tibbs, Elaine Bessette made the following remark:

<<If this trip to the tomb were not meant to be an attempt to fulfill the
customary anointing carried out by the female 'next of kin' we then have a
new problem in the inconsistency of the previous mention of the substance
being saved for the burial.>>

This implies that it was customary in the Jewish society of that time to
have the female next of kin anoint the body of a man. Is there any evidence
to this kind of custom?

I have a problem with the second part of the statement. Where is it said in
GJohn that the Mary who anointed the feet of Jesus saved a large amount of
aromatic oil for the real burial of Jesus? Am I missing something here?

Cheers,

Joseph

================
Joseph Codsi
P.O. Box 116-2088
Beirut, Lebanon
Telephone (961) 1 423 145
joseph5@...

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